[Archived] Did Big Sam ruin Rovers fans?

[AllRoverAsia]

There are still a huge, huge number of fans simply glad that the Allardyce era is over.

Do they still turn up at Ewood or are they amongst the missing?

[spencey7]

I won't go into a point-by-point rebuttal as to why I disagree with so many Allardyce-supporters on here, as quite frankly it's been done to death in several threads on this board. The point my post above was ultimately trying to make was this:

I completely understand why Kean retains some sympathy and support amongst Rovers fans. After what they percieved as intolerable, unwatchable football under Allardyce, they now believe they (and I apologise for the use of this phrase) "have their Rovers back". The age-old (and tired) debate of Entertainment vs Results. Different strokes for different folks.

Again, I don't personally believe Kean is the man for the job. But I hope this goes some way towards explaining why some fans defend him, which so many BRFCS posters seem incapable of understanding.

[jim mk2]

A better title for the thread would be, Has sacking Sam ruined Rovers ?

The answer is an unequivocal, Yes.

[BigAlan]

I'd just like to add, I'm in no way defending Kean. I'm just struggling to find people's reasonings for giving him more time. I'd love to turn the clock back 12 months and make all what's happened just a bad dream

[Mattyblue]

I won't go into a point-by-point rebuttal as to why I disagree with so many Allardyce-supporters on here, as quite frankly it's been done to death in several threads on this board. The point my post above was ultimately trying to make was this:

I completely understand why Kean retains some sympathy and support amongst Rovers fans. After what they percieved as intolerable, unwatchable football under Allardyce, they now believe they (and I apologise for the use of this phrase) "have their Rovers back". The age-old (and tired) debate of Entertainment vs Results. Different strokes for different folks.

Again, I don't personally believe Kean is the man for the job. But I hope this goes some way towards explaining why some fans defend him, which so many BRFCS posters seem incapable of understanding.

I disagree with you and those you describe, but you are 100% correct in your observation.

[chaddyrovers]

While the football might not always have been easy on the eye the fact is that Big Sam got results and football is a results business. Watching the Rovers every week - home and away - is far less enjoyable this season because we can't get a result. The fact that we have played well in a few games means little if you are bottom of the League. Personally, I don't find watching Rochina, Formica, Hoilett and the like enjoyable when we are losing. If we were winning it would be a different matter but we are not. We are losing on a regular basis and somehow I can't see those players being much use to the club in the Championship.

Sam, like Hughes and Souness before him, built sides that could grind out results because with a limited budget that's what you have to do. Hughes brought in Mokoena to do the dirty work in front of the back four. Today we have a midfield, with the exception of Nzonzi, who are so lightweight that they are unable to tackle - an example being Hoilett's pitiful attempt at a tackle in the build up to the Chelsea goal.

Football requires a mixture of skills and Kean simply hasn't built a team that can win. At the end of the day the fact that attendances are far lower at Ewood Park this season than at anytime under Sam suggests that most supporters want to see their team win. If they can win playing good football that's a bonus. But it's winning that counts. Sadly, the present team and manager find winning somewhat difficult.

Excellent post Parsonblue. Sam Allardyce plays winning football and used different styles of football to win games. Sam set the team properly defensive under him, but Kean hasn't set the team up defensive.

Certain People will say that we are playing better football now but we NOT winning games. Under Sam Allardyce sometimes the football wasn't attractive but got results.

I was very pleased when we appoint Sam Allardyce as manager as I thought he was the right manager to take over in December. He was mine second choice to take over from Hughes when he left. Sam kept us up that season, then we finish tenth next season even tho we sold we sold RSC and Warnock to sort the financial side and bought cheaper players to replace them. Plus we got to a semi final that season aswell and would have got to the final if Samba wasn't sent off against Villa in the 1st half which he should have been. Then we were 13th when sam was sack but if we had better bolton we would have gone 7th.

And to all of the Sam haters people who were happy when Sam was sacked but not happy that Kean was his replacement, always be careful for what you ask for in football!!!

[den]

This is an intriguing debate because I feel Sam has been harshly dealt with by the press for "So called Long Balls"

Yes Glen.

You can play long ball and lose. That's awful to watch, but you don't lose because of the long ball, you lose because the players can't play it well enough.

One point about these "hoofball" criticisms. If you could win games in the PL simply by playing hoofball, then any team from the lower leagues could get together a bunch of big lads and become successful. But they can't do that, because to win by any means you must have good players. Having good players is entertaining. To win games you must have good defenders and strikers that can score goals - and that's also entertaining.

Look at the ultimate long ball team of the last 30 years - Wimbledon. Big lads, long ball, but they could win games against any side. They didn't win those games because they were big lads, they won games because they had good players - look at their players, there were some very good players in that Wimbledon side. If those players hadn't have been there, Wimbledon wouldn't have been as successful.

So, you can't win games just by hoofing the ball upwards and forwards.

[Majiball]

Sam showed he could play good football with the run in for the season when we finished 10th. The following season he reverted to type, 2-3 passes and then hit it up-field, it was dire to watch and given he'd shown he could get results both ways why the dramatic switch? Yes Sam got results, he always has but no matter where he has gone the fans have been split over the method. It was always going to be this way under Sam, they knew this when he was appointed.

No Sam shouldn't have been sacked, but at the same time he left himself open to it by reverting to hoofball yet again. He had money to spend, we signed loads of players under Sam, most were not up to the job either. He took the Bolton blueprint and transplanted it here at Rovers there Rivals, it was never going to go down well, JW knew this, but needs must.

Hindsight is a wonderfully useless thing, but some said all the above would happen before he was appointed and for me the crucial decision in it all was the Ince appointment as the directive was find another Hughes, not find the best man for Rovers current position. You have to look at how was linked, even by them selves at the time (Mancini for one).

The split in the camp made it easy for our current owners to remove Sam and still we see that split at Rovers, it wasn't there before Ince. A catalogue of mistakes created the situation and people have taken advantage of it. Welcome to football people, it's ruthless.

Yes football is a results business, but when your used to getting results as we were the method will always be questioned, it's the way it's always been in all aspects of life.

[Stuart]

_786.

You should be careful what you type and describe as fact. Unless you have proof you could find yourself in trouble...!

[broadsword]

Sacking Allardyce was one of a string of calamities that's taken place in the last 12 months.

The damage has now been done, and we are paying the price, big time.

God knows what the club will look like in 1 year's time, never mind who will be the manager.

It makes my nose bleed just thinking about teh situation.

[chris]

See more Sam myths ... Niko was more than 6 million . Aye Sam spent nowt.

He had to sell santa cruz for 17 million and spent 6 million on a replacement.

That like selling a "BMW" and buying a "Renault Clio".

I'm amazed by your comment.

[Miker]

Glad someone posted this. I have theorized that fans' treatment of Sam has had an impact on Venky's decision making.

People are forgetting the following:

a.) A majority wanted Sam out in December 09 because of our poor run and there was a lot of contempt and anger towards him on here and most probably on match days. This was before we stuck with him and he got us to 10th, unbeaten at home to the top 4, and cup semi.

b.) Sam's sacking while surprising, was actually precipitated by 3 events:

-Thrashing at the hands of United, which led to widespread condemnation of the manager and tactics and caused a lot of embarrassment.

-Booing on match day despite being up 3-0 against Wolves.

-Further criticism for an unfortunate and narrow defeat against our rivals.

Don't forget there were many on here hoping he'd be fired or his contract not renewed. In fact, I would say this board was the least anti-Sam of the others out there, but you could still feel the anti-Sam atmosphere.

What should have been obvious to most is that our football was down to the playing squad. If people watched how his Bolton sides played, and how his West Ham side now plays, you'd see a massive difference in style and excitement to our football, which in fairness was not so bad, especially at Home.

The key is to balance good defensive structure with attacking flair, in order to get results. Something Kean has failed to do for most of his tenure here, thus leading us to this predicament.

However, I have said from the start that the anti-Sam feeling among the fans contributed to his sacking, and the lack of effect of the protests against Kean. Simply because they have heard it all before and Kean can just point it out to the owners with relative ease. If Sam had heroic status in the fanbase he would NOT have been sacked. He didn't though. He instead created a divisive fanbase.

People want Venky's to get off their butts, listen to the fans and make a decision. However, how can we expect them to take advice from fans, who among their ranks count the same people who wanted rid of a manager who ended up achieving miraculous results in his one full season???

[Majiball]

He had to sell santa cruz for 17 million and spent 6 million on a replacement.

That like selling a "BMW" and buying a "Renault Clio".

I'm amazed by your comment.

RSC never played under Sam he was always injured and at the end of the day Sam choose the Renault Clio, didn't like it and stuck it back in his garage. Our BMW was in parts in the garage and someone offers more than it's worth whole, who wouldn't have sold it on. Sam would have gotten every available penny and everyone on here knows that, he made the choice, no one else and that was the biggest mistake he made.

Sign a tall striker, Mmmm Kevin Davies MKII were the words I heard to describe Niko when he was signed, indeed he was.

[Amo]

Sam just didn't have the resources to make Blackburn a flair team, if you have almost no money, infact I believe are 20th in the "spending verse investment" table...

Eh, we're back to that age old myth, though. That Rovers can either play like Wimbledon or Barcelona. There cannot be a compromise between the two?

Almost as misguided as the belief that only Allardyce could manage our club. Should we have folded the club once he was off to Dubai?

Contrary to popular belief, we could play good stuff under Sam. It all depended on the manager's mindset. Anyone remember the Chelsea league game? I believe Venky's were in the stand that day pending their takeover. Some of the best stuff we played under Allardyce. Yes, we played for set-pieces and went direct, but we worked the ball better, tried to keep possession, and there was hardly a long-throw in sight. Great performance, and a Roberts howler away from getting a deserved result. So you're telling me the players just decided they wanted to play that day? And Pedersen didn't feel like taking long-throws? Or perhaps the manager sent them out with a different gameplan?

There were a few other games where Allardyce let the shackles off, but they were few and far between. And let's not forget Neil McDonald's game in charge, where we took Chelsea apart with a classy performance. We didn't have the best of sides, true, and not one that can outplay teams week in, week out, but these are professional players, international players. They can mix it up when you give them the opportunity.

My problem with Allardyce was that the football became painfully predictable and laboured. It was effective, yes, but often teams would read us like a book and we'd have no Plan B other than to keep thumping it forward and hope either Samba or Diouf would clatter ball and goalie into the net. It wasn't a pretty sight and hardly helped someone falling out of love with the game as it is. Football is a results-driven business, yes, but it's also an entertainment one as well. Romans weren't abated with the mere sight of bloodshed in the coliseum. There had to be some sport and drama involved for the crowds to enjoy the final stroke. The same is true of football. You can only watch your team play ugly for so long before it becomes a perfunctory experience.

[glen9mullan]

Quick question, Would people have Tony Pulis as Manager? He has done a great job with Stoke , bought some top players and plays, yes you guessed it effective football, which makes them hard to beat and gets results. Yes you will get the odd drubbing like at the weekend, but those results are few and far between

[Mattyblue]

Then why did our crowds increase and stabilise at their highest figure for a decsde under Sam and have now collapsed, if the footbal was so appalling?

(Yes they were cheap, they still are).

[Majiball]

Quick question, Would people have Tony Pulis as Manager? He has done a great job with Stoke , bought some top players and plays, yes you guessed it effective football, which makes them hard to beat and gets results. Yes you will get the odd drubbing like at the weekend, but those results are few and far between

No, if I want to watch airball I'll go watch Wigan warriors, I love football the clues in the name.

I think you've answered your own question there Mattyblue.

[spencey7]

And to all of the Sam haters people who were happy when Sam was sacked but not happy that Kean was his replacement, always be careful for what you ask for in football!!!

Those who didn't support Allardyce, or "the Sam haters" if you will, wanted to see him leave the club and a new manager be appointed. We got the first part of that but not the second, as instead a coach - quite clearly out of his depth - was promoted.

(I guess some people just live to say "I told you so".)

Sacking Allardyce was one of a string of calamities that's taken place in the last 12 months.

The damage has now been done, and we are paying the price, big time.

In my opinion the pivotal moment in the club's recent history came in June 2008, when the board took the cheap option and appointed Ince. Had he not been such a monumental failure there would have been no need for Allardyce's deeply unpopular appointment. (Remember he was interviewed in summer 2008 but lost out owing to the overwhelming negative reaction amongst fans.)

Quick question, Would people have Tony Pulis as Manager?

No, thank you.

[Mattyblue]

No, if I want to watch airball I'll go watch Wigan warriors, I love football the clues in the name.

I think you've answered your own question there Mattyblue.

That they are cheap? Yes, cheap then, cheap now, so why the big fall off?

[chris]

I am not suggesting Blackburn were like Wimbledon under Sam, I think eventually he could have got the team playing well.

Just before he left Bolton (in 5th place I think) he signed Anelka.

It was a building process, first get the team hard to beat, solid and then you can bring in your Rochina (luxury players) or Jay Jay.

You don't go out and buy 7 flair players stick them in a team and then wonder why you are playing well and losing or if you don't have ball, fullbacks are getting murdered.

[Mattyblue]

In my opinion the pivotal moment in the club's recent history came in June 2008, when the board took the cheap option and appointed Ince. Had he not been such a monumental failure there would have been no need for Allardyce's deeply unpopular appointment. (Remember he was interviewed in summer 2008 but lost out owing to the overwhelming negative reaction amongst fans.)

Negative among SOME fans, ie Facebook groups and the like, there were many fans on here and in the wider fanbase who said Sam was them man to replace Hughes from day one.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Those who didn't support Allardyce, or "the Sam haters" if you will, wanted to see him leave the club and a new manager be appointed. We got the first part of that but not the second, as instead a coach - quite clearly out of his depth - was promoted.

(I guess some people just live to say "I told you so".)

Well I'm sure there'd be a lot less "I told you so"s if at any point one of you delusional muppets admitted you were totally wrong for wanting him out. But no, we're still getting the hysterical exaggerations about his style of play, we're still getting that hiring Kean not sacking Sam was the problem, and we're still getting that the football we're playing now is better. All total rubbish.

[Jimmy612]

Quick question, Would people have Tony Pulis as Manager? He has done a great job with Stoke , bought some top players and plays, yes you guessed it effective football, which makes them hard to beat and gets results. Yes you will get the odd drubbing like at the weekend, but those results are few and far between

I like Pulis Glen, H'es done a great job at Stoke and they are exactly the team I would like rovers to play like. Fortress Britannica (usually) and you can guarantee teams will hate that away fixture.

One reservation, he has spent a good amount of money, Crouch, Jones, Palacios. Good manager though

[chris]

I'm waiting for someone to say "I'd rather get relegated playing good football then have Tony Pulis".

Well thats what a West Ham fan would say.

[Majiball]

That they are cheap? Yes, cheap then, cheap now, so why the big fall off?

Why don't you cut to the chase as opposed to trying to ring fence? The answers are bloody obvious, we're not winning.

People on here need to understand that black and white mix and create shades of grey, it's the world we all live in these days.