[Archived] Did Big Sam ruin Rovers fans?

[philipl]

I'd take anyone who can rescue our PL status and keep us up.

That excludes Kean because a year in he is getting much worse results now than when he was first appointed.

[Majiball]

I'd take anyone who can rescue our PL status and keep us up.

That excludes Kean because a year in he is getting much worse results now than when he was first appointed.

Best start praying for a Christmas miracle, because that's what it would appear it's going to take.

My hope is that certain people out there will want to put things right afterwards as it doesn't seem as if the above will happen.

Thankfully we have one advantage that the likes of Leeds, Pompey, Charlton, southampton et al didn't, I just hope my assumption is right.

[den]

Those who didn't support Allardyce, or "the Sam haters" if you will, wanted to see him leave the club and a new manager be appointed. We got the first part of that but not the second, as instead a coach - quite clearly out of his depth - was promoted.

When you wanted Sam sacked, did you ever think that we might get someone worse?

It's a straight yes or no, Spencey.

[AndyC]

Puts on tin hat...

We're not that far away from having a very good team.

The key issue is how we're set up to defend, because of keans alarming mistake of not securing Jermain Jones signature. Or any other ball winning centre midfielder for that matter.

This was his biggest and most costly mistake. We had flair players (hoillet and olsen) we had great centre backs ( givet, samba, nelson) what we really needed was a centre midfielder who would also be able to bring out the best in the talented nzonzi. The game is dictated by the central midfield. Any third rate coach will be able to tell you that.

If Kean had recognized the real problem in the team, then we would be a complete different side. This is his biggest failing. Thinking he could just have a few flair players to play like barca.

The final point about kean, is his appalling media advice. If he's not getting any, then he needs to get some outside counsel. If he is getting it, he needs to disregard everything they are saying because it is turning 95% of the supporters against him.

Rovers supporters are not the most demanding set of fans in the world, but what we value over everything else is honesty. If we've played poorly, admit it. Fergie does. Wenger does. Why can't steve?

He needs to really think about what he says about the people who help to pay his wages - the fans. He's alienating them by his words just as much as his actions.

[Andy]

I was the happiest man on the planet when Venkys sacked Allardyce, and a great many other Rovers fans (I would still contend, the majority) celebrated with me. Where our new owners went wrong was to appoint Kean full-time, and talk him up as if he was the new Alex Ferguson. (With hindsight this was clearly a combination of staggering inexperience and being manipulated by the wrong people.)

There are still a huge, huge number of fans simply glad that the Allardyce era is over. That we have skilful players on the pitch at Ewood trying things - Formica, Rochina, Hoilett (who, lets not forget, didn't get a look-in under the previous regime) - as opposed to Diouf, Goulon and van Heerden.

Don't get me wrong - Kean is the wrong man, and did nothing to warrant his promotion other being an SEM client and brown-nosing the right people at the right time, but I completely understand why he retains some sympathy and support amongst Rovers fans.

Absolute complete and utter rubbish. No-one with functioning eyes in their head could possibly make this claim with a straight face.

[Miker]

Would love Pulis over here, he's done a fantastic job with Stoke so far. They've done well in the Europa as well.

Proper manager.

[Rovers_786]

_786.

You should be careful what you type and describe as fact. Unless you have proof you could find yourself in trouble...!

Thanks mate for advice cant we have free speak.

[yoda]

Thanks mate for advice cant we have free speak.

Ask Mrs D that

[Steve Moss]

Hated ince hated zzzam and hate kean and venkys!!!

Don't be such a hater.

But love rovers!!!!!

That's more like it. Next stop, a tie dye t-shirt shop.

[spencey7]

When you wanted Sam sacked, did you ever think that we might get someone worse?

It's a straight yes or no, Spencey.

No, I didn't think it would be possible we would get anyone "worse" than Allardyce. Pulis's football is every bit as awful, but he least he doesn't give the embarassing delusions-of-grandeur press conferences Allardyce was responsible for.

I believe Ince's appointment three years ago was the turning point, our club has never been truly "safe" since. Here's hoping it's not too late to turn things around.

[Mattyblue]

Spencey, you seem to be confusing a style of football you dislike with a managers competence

[onlyonejackwalker]

No, I didn't think it would be possible we would get anyone "worse" than Allardyce. Pulis's football is every bit as awful, but he least he doesn't give the embarassing delusions-of-grandeur press conferences Allardyce was responsible for.

I believe Ince's appointment three years ago was the turning point, our club has never been truly "safe" since. Here's hoping it's not too late to turn things around.

You did not think? There is a clue in there somewhere for you.

By 'delusions of grandeur' did you mean Europe and the top 4, David Beckham, the new Dennis Irwin, the new Chris Smalling, or the biggest transfer budget ever? Strange how you criticise the comments of SA, but think Kean talks a lot of sense.

Balance please if possible anytime soon.

[spencey7]

By 'delusions of grandeur' did you mean Europe and the top 4, David Beckham, the new Dennis Irwin, the new Chris Smalling, or the biggest transfer budget ever? Strange how you criticise the comments of SA, but think Kean talks a lot of sense.

When did I say Kean "talks a lot of sense"? Kean has uttered complete nonsense, but it's undoubtedly what he's being told by the owners who don't seemingly have a clue what they're doing, or what they took on. Perhaps Kean's worst trait is his naïveté.

[Jimmy612]

No, I didn't think it would be possible we would get anyone "worse" than Allardyce. Pulis's football is every bit as awful, but he least he doesn't give the embarassing delusions-of-grandeur press conferences Allardyce was responsible for.

I believe Ince's appointment three years ago was the turning point, our club has never been truly "safe" since. Here's hoping it's not too late to turn things around.

You didn't think it was possible to appoint a worse manager than one manager who, with a team very similar club to ours, had taken them from division one to an excellent premier league outfit, that played good football, and whom he left in 6th position having just signed Nicolas Anelka, all on a shoestring budget?

A manager who took a shocking BRFC squad from 20th to a top ten finish in what? 16 months?

Who did you think we were going to get? In fact who would you have liked? I bet you say MoN!

Question, in the current horror position we find ourselves in, and knowing what was acheived after the Ince debacle, would you like to have Allardyce back at the club to try to save us?

[Mattyblue]

Of course he wouldn't Jimmy.

Fans like spencey have an absolute rabid dislike of Sam Allardyce that is completely out of proportion to what hapenned under his reign.

I don't want Kean as manager- because of his results. Yes, he talks complete tripe, but if we could actually win matches, then I would probably shout 'yeah, you tell 'em Stevie' at my TV.

Yet, a manager that did only good things for BRFC, that left us in a much stronger positon then which he found us, that got by on one of the leagues smallest budgets, that got us survival, a top 10 and a cup semi gets this hysterical bile spewed from people as soon as you mention his name.

And they say the anti Kean crowd are blinkered.

[beatrix]

No, I didn't think it would be possible we would get anyone "worse" than Allardyce. Pulis's football is every bit as awful, but he least he doesn't give the embarassing delusions-of-grandeur press conferences Allardyce was responsible for.

I believe Ince's appointment three years ago was the turning point, our club has never been truly "safe" since. Here's hoping it's not too late to turn things around.

Our club was relatively safe with allardyce in charge ably supported by John Williams. The difference between then and now is the

mismanagement of the venkys. Allardyce didnt spoil us he guided us to safety then stabilised the club on the field. I didnt

particularly enjoy the football all the time but he was the right man for our town team and limited resources.

[spencey7]

You didn't think it was possible to appoint a worse manager than one manager who, with a team very similar club to ours, had taken them from division one to an excellent premier league outfit, that played good football

No they didn't! Where does this complete mistruth originate? I imagine it's simply looking back at anything Allardyce has done with rose-tinted spectacles. Allardyce knows how to play one way, and one way only, he has done throughout his career.

Who did you think we were going to get? In fact who would you have liked?

Virtually anyone.

Question, in the current horror position we find ourselves in, and knowing what was acheived after the Ince debacle, would you like to have Allardyce back at the club to try to save us?

What do you think?

Yet, a manager that did only good things for BRFC, that left us in a much stronger positon then which he found us, that got by on one of the leagues smallest budgets, that got us survival, a top 10 and a cup semi gets this hysterical bile spewed from people as soon as you mention his name.

This is because the football was completely and utterly unwatchable.

[den]

No, I didn't think it would be possible we would get anyone "worse" than Allardyce.

Well there you go then. We did finish up with someone worse - someone much worse.

Every time someone says "ah, but I didn't think we would get Kean", I'm going to ask the same question. You see, whichever way that question is answered, it shows up a huge lack of forethought.

[spencey7]

Well there you go then. We did finish up with someone worse - someone much worse.

Every time someone says "ah, but I didn't think we would get Kean", I'm going to ask the same question. You see, whichever way that question is answered, it shows up a huge lack of forethought.

Be fair. No-one could have anticipated exactly how little Venkys knew about the running and management of a football club. They were told by their advisors that Kean was the man for the job, and believed them.

I can't think of another instance where a first team coach with no prior managerial experience was promoted in such a way. This is brand new for all involved. The squad was dreadful under Allardyce; I genuinely believe it's better now, albeit a more experienced hand is required at the helm.

[broadsword]

Yeah, but that's not a realistic suggestion Glen.

What I really want is new owners, first and foremost. People would say that isn't a realistic suggestion either. But it is the most pressing need, and until these people leave, the club will continue to suffer.

[Pedro]

Then why did our crowds increase and stabilise at their highest figure for a decsde under Sam and have now collapsed, if the footbal was so appalling?

(Yes they were cheap, they still are).

Did season tickets get reduced to £199 at this time? That might explain it.

The atmosphere also disappeared at this same time too..but I see that as a knock on effect of the end of the Hughes era and when we used to have good, exciting forward players like Bellamy, McCarthy, Bentley and Santa Cruz.

IMO supporting Rovers hasn't been any fun since Hughes left. We've either been inept, predictable, toothless or used plain boring tactics. Big Sam is hailed as some sort of footballing Messiah when all he really did was take an already capable team and got them doing the basics. He did a great job of keeping us up after the hapless Ince rein, but we weren't very good, consistent or appealing in the few months before he was sacked. Someone will pipe up and say we were only a win off 6th or something, but so were many teams in a league that was bizarrely close that season. If we had the consistency and tactics to obtain the extra wins and draws that we should have had that same early season we would have been way up.

As for Kean, regardless of the football being played on the floor we are defensively naive and his record simply can not be defended. We need a change and in similar terms to when Big Sam took over Rovers, I believe any number or mundane managers could get Rovers out of the mess we are in because the players are there and they have the ability to get back to back wins in a Premier League that has weakened everywhere apart from Eastlands.

[jim mk2]

Big Sam is hailed as some sort of footballing Messiah when all he really did was take an already capable team and got them doing the basics. He did a great job of keeping us up after the hapless Ince rein, but we weren't very good, consistent or appealing in the few months before he was sacked. Someone will pipe up and say we were only a win off 6th or something,

The only people to hail Sam as "Messiah" were his detractors, and then only in derogatory way. Sensible folk (the majority) saw him as a very good manager who was perfect for running a medium-sized tightly-run ship like Rovers. I've been watching Rovers for 50+ years and the sacking of Sam Allardyce is probably the worst decision the the club has taken in all that time. The repercussions are going to affect Rovers for many. many years.

[den]

Be fair. No-one could have anticipated exactly how little Venkys knew about the running and management of a football club. They were told by their advisors that Kean was the man for the job, and believed them.

I can't think of another instance where a first team coach with no prior managerial experience was promoted in such a way. This is brand new for all involved. The squad was dreadful under Allardyce; I genuinely believe it's better now, albeit a more experienced hand is required at the helm.

It's simple Spencey. You said that we couldn't have got any worse manager than Sam. The fact is that there are plenty of worse managers than Sam, we sacked one of them to get Sam in. You're not on your own mate, there are plenty of rovers fans who thought we couldn't get any worse, just the same as you did - unless they didn't even consider replacements - as long as he was gone.

Either way, they were wrong. Sacking Allardyce was a big gamble and it hasn't paid off.

[Rovers_786]

some good comments by the fans.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Can't think of much to add to some fantastic posts defending Allardyce in this thread. All I would say is to imagine this Spencey:

You completely forget anything you've ever heard the media, Wenger, other fans or your mates say about Allardyce. Then you watch a video of one of his top 8 Bolton teams, a video of Villa under O'Neill, a video of Stoke under Pulis and one of Birmingham finishing 9th under McCleish. Do you honestly think you'd see a great deal of difference in the styles of play?

I don't at all, so why does Allardyce get shed loads of grief and those other managers barely get any? Simply because he was the first to do it and the press and thick fans find it easier, more effective and more satisfying to throw all their abuse at one person rather than to spread it out between 5 or 6. Its the same reason Diouf is labelled the footballing anti-christ whilst scum like Barton, King, Bramble, Bowyer are largely ignored.