[Archived] Did Big Sam ruin Rovers fans?

[Jimmy612]

Any time spent in the premier League was at the helm of the most boring and soul destroying football you can imagine(ask many a Bolton, Newcastle and Rovers fan)and not only that he didn't endear himself to the Bolton board, the Newcastle owner or this current bunch at Rovers - you can make your own assumptions why. My personal view is that he is an arsehole.

Just a point - many an average manager has and will guide all sorts of teams out of the championship - and dare I say it, Steve Kean is ideally suited to doing just that (somewhere else ideally). Both him, Holloway, Hughton, Coyle, Boothroyd, Martinez, Jewell, Brown, Copell etc. all share the same traits of playing passing and open football - but they can't transfer it succesfully to the Premier League because they can't get teams defending or consistently get the balance right.

He was at Bolton for 8 years, quite an astonishing amount of time to say he didn't endear himself to the board. He was good friends with Gartside, mind you he would be seeing as he took them from 9th in Divison one to 6th in the PL in 5 years, an astonishing acheivment given the financial backing he recieve. I'm sure you cannot disagree.

The other two examples of not getting on with the owners are moronic. Newcaslte sacked him when they were 11th I believe, this was within what? 5 months of him taking over. Thats daft Geordies thinking they are bigger than they are.

How you can even have the audacity to suggest he never endeared himself to Venkys astonishes me! Tats not even an argument and you have made yourself look foolish with that argument. The fact that he got on terrifically well with JW should be more a topic of conversation, of course that doesn't suit your poor argument.

Does your last paragraph suggest what a terrific job Allardyce did at Bolton or are you going to continue to defy logic?

Out of interest can you suggest me someone who has done a better job at taking a team up and making them a success in the PL. Or even someone who has taken over a team in 20th in December and guided them so successfully to 10th position in 16 months?

[John]

Can't believe this debate still takes place, the stats and results under Sam speak for themselves.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Using only the edit function I've just trumped it.

Not like you to have a very high opinion of yourself!

A quite cynical, very effective, very prosaic manager who did pretty well for us moved on a year or so ago so time to let it go now surely?

(I know it's tough 47er but he's with someone else now)

[47er]

If sometimes the most obvious explanation is the correct one (your own favourite Year 10 theory) - what's your story and why all the anger just because your mathematics don't make sense? It is only what Steve Kean would twist it around to and anyone with a brain should recognise that. You say 20% are unhappy, he'll say 80% are...FACT.

Its a FACT that he'll say that but it isn't true! 80% are not happy, only some of them are (why they are God knows) and, if he stays you'll see how many turn up next season and how far season tickets numbers slide once again.

Plenty of the 80% (your figure) go because they've already paid, we don't chuck money away in Lancashire. Even so, plenty who have got season tickets are not going to as many games as they used to.

[Majiball]

This has been explained. The orders from the trust were to play safe and avoid relegation at all costs. Take your mind back maj, that season we only 'opened up' and played some excellent attacking football was once 40 points had been reached. I think our opponents were floored by our onus on attack as much as the fact that half of them would be running the season down.

So the trust who never really got involved unless they had too dictated the approach?

I have an excellent memory and that argument was never raised during Sam's reign, so I'm going to pass on it.

PS it was the last 8-10 games of that season and we played teams who had plenty left to play for:

Wolves, Everton, United, Arsenal & Bumley spring to mind.

Hughes target was always 40 points as well but I don't remember wearing a neck brace after his matches.

I know Sam was well loved by many on here and I'm sure that has only been amplified since his surprise sacking and our current demise but it was far from rosy and resulted in the split we now endure and was always going too.

[47er]

Not like you to have a very high opinion of yourself!

A quite cynical, very effective, very prosaic manager who did pretty well for us moved on a year or so ago so time to let it go now surely?

(I know it's tough 47er but he's with someone else now)

Once again, a snide and pointless post from the most predictable nut case on the MB.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Old Trafford game! How about Arsenal fans? How about MU fans after their mauling by City? Results like that happen every week to someone. Stick to facts not infantile tantrums cos the simple fact is that there are far more 'not bothering to attend' now than when Allardyce and the Trust were in charge. Making you happy (and if you are you are crackers) is like losing a tenner and finding 50p.

I doubt very much that the Arse or Utd fans saw those results as the last straw ...er...

..BIG difference Gord.

Anyway, after all is said and done, I'm still delighted about the decision to remove him. Will Kean prove to be a worthy successor? I believe so.

Crackers?

[Jimmy612]

I doubt very much that the Arse or Utd fans saw those results as the last straw ...er...

So why should we?

Not like you to have a very high opinion of yourself!

A quite cynical, very effective, very prosaic manager who did pretty well for us moved on a year or so ago so time to let it go now surely?

(I know it's tough 47er but he's with someone else now)

Why let it go? It still proves to be the stand out worst decision by Venkys and is a big reason why we are currently lodged in the relegation zone and have been for some time.

What a silly post with very little to no input into the discussion

[Tony Diamond Inc]

So why should we?

?

[spencey7]

Well I think that just about sums up your knowledge of football then doesn't it

Or yours.

[Andy]

I genuinely don't get why any Rovers fan would dislike Big Sam as much as the small, but vocal, minority seem to.

I thought he did a fantastic job in keeping us in the league when it looked a lost cause and then went on to steady the ship and slowly build a good team, on the smallest of Premiership budgets.

He even developed and introduced youngsters like Jones, Olsson and Hoilett in a proper and patient manner.

Sam's major massive plus point is his ability to squeeze as many points as possible from the resources he is given.

That's exactly what he did at Rovers and the results, in black and white, speak for themselves.

The fact that Kean is currently doing his best to replicate Sam's direct style speaks volumes.

And as a final point, if you think Bolton played 'long ball' with players like Hierro, Anelka and Okocha then you really need to dig some old tapes out and have a look - they were a classy team and their success showed that.

[Jimmy612]

?

Well why should a club as small as ours, financially inept as ours and as poor a squad as ours be so upset at a defeat to one of the best teams in the world?

Surely as i suggested earlier, the most important aspect of that defeat was the performance the following week, to beat Wolves 3-0? I guess you booed during that though?

[John]

I genuinely don't get why any Rovers fan would dislike Big Sam as much as the small, but vocal, minority seem to.

I thought he did a fantastic job in keeping us in the league when it looked a lost cause and then went on to steady the ship and slowly build a good team, on the smallest of Premiership budgets.

He even developed and introduced youngsters like Jones, Olsson and Hoilett in a proper and patient manner.

Sam's major massive plus point is his ability to squeeze as many points as possible from the resources he is given.

That's exactly what he did at Rovers and the results, in black and white, speak for themselves.

The fact that Kean is currently doing his best to replicate Sam's direct style speaks volumes.

And as a final point, if you think Bolton played 'long ball' with players like Hierro, Anelka and Okocha then you really need to dig some old tapes out and have a look - they were a classy team and their success showed that.

Summed up perfectly.

[Jimmy612]

Or yours.

Very difficult to get a discussion out of you. I thought your forthright views on this subject would allow you to discuss this further, or have you run out of silly excuses for hating a man who clearly you have some kind of personal prejudice towards?

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Well why should a club as small as ours, financially inept as ours and as poor a squad as ours be so upset at a defeat to one of the best teams in the world?

Surely as i suggested earlier, the most important aspect of that defeat was the performance the following week, to beat Wolves 3-0? I guess you booed during that though?

No shame in losing to the champions, it's the manner in which we surrendered before the kick-off, added to the months of excruciatingly frustrating brand of football we had to endure.

Oh and by the way, I've never booed during a game in my life. I guess you guessed incorrectly!

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Once again, a snide and pointless post from the most predictable nut case on the MB.

Wow, you're a tetchy bugger! It seems all the rage to fess up to a man crush these days, chill out ya rocket.

It's a bit disingenuous to dismiss the mauling at OT in the light of recent results. There's been a sea change in scorelines and approaches to games this season that wasn't there at the time of last season's capitulation. 7-1 scorelines were still rare and that performance was a disgrace whichever way you try to dress it up.

I don't miss Allardyce's regular capitulations to the top six, nor do I have fond memories of some of the awful football we had to endure. I do miss the stability and guarantee of Premiership status but even given that I don't understand the wailing and nashing of teeth that's still going on.

It seems that Allardyce wanted to go anyway, the only big deal is that we replaced him with a hopelessly inexperienced novice.

[spencey7]

God you talk some rubbish. Its interesting that you haven't posted for months but a thread on Sam comes up and its like lighting a rocket---you're off!

I'm not the one who made this thread into the age-old "Entertainment/Results" debate, I merely contributed by explaining why (in my opinion) Steve Kean retains the support and sympathy of many fans who didn't exactly enjoy the Allardyce era.

And if you haven't heard complaints from any West Ham fans about his style, I can only assume you aren't talking to any...

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Ooooh, pop that handbag down sister!

To be fair though, that is an absolutely laughable response to what I wrote - pure rage, irrelevant chunder and basic ignorance. To me, you've just self-coronated yourself as the King of the blinkered people who can't see a major fault with the same opions from the same people on internet forums and for me you've popped yourself right up there on the throne of ignorance. There are a whole host of people out there in the stands at Ewood and a whole host of reasons why people don't renew tickets but I'm going to have to leave it at that my little amphibian friend because I used to waste my energy trying to exchange views with the likes of you, but that is such a waste of time when there are actually intelligent folk amongst the more challenged on here who will see the common sense in what I wrote.

If sometimes the most obvious explanation is the correct one (your own favourite Year 10 theory) - what's your story and why all the anger just because your mathematics don't make sense? It is only what Steve Kean would twist it around to and anyone with a brain should recognise that. You say 20% are unhappy, he'll say 80% are...FACT.

Handbag down? That was me doing my very best impression of arguing reasonably with an utter moron. But seeing as you just insulted me about 10 times for disagreeing with you I may as well just call you the ******* @asshole that you are. Do you talk to people in real life like that? The mixture of condescension and insults from someone who is quite clearly way below the average IQ is quite rage inducing actually. But then I really should remind myself that you're probably just some teenage scrote who didn't support Allardyce because TV told him not to and who supports Kean because he isn't Allardyce. Stay in the Blackburn End please "Pedro", I'd hate to think I was sat in the same stand with as a total prat like you.

[Jimmy612]

No shame in losing to the champions, it's the manner in which we surrendered before the kick-off, added to the months of excruciatingly frustrating brand of football we had to endure.

Oh and by the way, I've never booed during a game in my life. I guess you guessed incorrectly!

I don't think we surrendered before kick off, we conceded a very unfortunate goal in the first minute and then its an uphill battle from there, plus when you consider the backpass chimbonda played for 2-0, it was a horrible task we faced, plus that fact that United were rampant that game.

I got over that game as soon as we got a very important home win against Wolves, you seem to be clinging to that game as some kind of evidence for sacking him. As I have stated before, the arguments from Sam haters are very weak.

Oh sorry you didn't boo, you walked out of the ground muttering your discontent at playing keep ball with 5 minutes to go

[47er]

Wow, you're a tetchy bugger! It seems all the rage to fess up to a man crush these days, chill out ya rocket.

It's a bit disingenuous to dismiss the mauling at OT in the light of recent results. There's been a sea change in scorelines and approaches to games this season that wasn't there at the time of last season's capitulation. 7-1 scorelines were still rare and that performance was a disgrace whichever way you try to dress it up.

I don't miss Allardyce's regular capitulations to the top six, nor do I have fond memories of some of the awful football we had to endure. I do miss the stability and guarantee of Premiership status but even given that I don't understand the wailing and nashing of teeth that's still going on.

It seems that Allardyce wanted to go anyway, the only big deal is that we replaced him with a hopelessly inexperienced novice.

The nearest you've got to a discussion in months.Keep it up.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

I don't think we surrendered before kick off, we conceded a very unfortunate goal in the first minute and then its an uphill battle from there, plus when you consider the backpass chimbonda played for 2-0, it was a horrible task we faced, plus that fact that United were rampant that game.

I got over that game as soon as we got a very important home win against Wolves, you seem to be clinging to that game as some kind of evidence for sacking him. As I have stated before, the arguments from Sam haters are very weak.

c

Last word.

Don't try to explain away that defeat, it was a surrender of embarrassing proportions, but as I have already said, not the reason for wanting Allardyce out, just the final straw!

[Pedro]

He was at Bolton for 8 years, quite an astonishing amount of time to say he didn't endear himself to the board. He was good friends with Gartside, mind you he would be seeing as he took them from 9th in Divison one to 6th in the PL in 5 years, an astonishing acheivment given the financial backing he recieve. I'm sure you cannot disagree.

The other two examples of not getting on with the owners are moronic. Newcaslte sacked him when they were 11th I believe, this was within what? 5 months of him taking over. Thats daft Geordies thinking they are bigger than they are.

How you can even have the audacity to suggest he never endeared himself to Venkys astonishes me! Tats not even an argument and you have made yourself look foolish with that argument. The fact that he got on terrifically well with JW should be more a topic of conversation, of course that doesn't suit your poor argument.

Does your last paragraph suggest what a terrific job Allardyce did at Bolton or are you going to continue to defy logic?

Out of interest can you suggest me someone who has done a better job at taking a team up and making them a success in the PL. Or even someone who has taken over a team in 20th in December and guided them so successfully to 10th position in 16 months?

Erm me foolish?

I think you need to do a teeny weeny bit of research about Allardyce and Gartside and their "friendship"...and the financial backing he received...and the state of the clubs finances off the back of the financial backing he received. But silly me thinking that Campo, Djorkaeff, Hierro, Okacha etc. were playing free of charge and that Anelka actually made a free transfer and was paid purely in love and Peter Kay DVD's.

Further foolishness by me suggesting that Saint Sam was twice sacked because Mike Ashley and the Venkys loved him to pieces...oh no sorry, it was "moronic" wasn't it?

As for your suggestions, Tony Pulis, Alan Pardew, Harry Redknapp (3 times).

Also Harry saved Pompey and I'll let you do the research as to who who saved West Ham a couple of years back?? Don't be so blinkered buddy, and less of thinking people who disagree with you are foolish because facts often bite you on the old behind. I can dislike both Kean and Big Sam and still love Rovers.

Handbag down? That was me doing my very best impression of arguing reasonably with an utter moron. But seeing as you just insulted me about 10 times for disagreeing with you I may as well just call you the ******* @asshole that you are. Do you talk to people in real life like that? The mixture of condescension and insults from someone who is quite clearly way below the average IQ is quite rage inducing actually. But then I really should remind myself that you're probably just some teenage scrote who didn't support Allardyce because TV told him not to and who supports Kean because he isn't Allardyce. Stay in the Blackburn End please "Pedro", I'd hate to think I was sat in the same stand with as a total prat like you.

Strangely, I have an IQ of 154 - what's yours?

[thenodrog]

So the trust who never really got involved unless they had too dictated the approach?

I have an excellent memory and that argument was never raised during Sam's reign, so I'm going to pass on it.

PS it was the last 8-10 games of that season and we played teams who had plenty left to play for:

Wolves, Everton, United, Arsenal & Bumley spring to mind.

Hughes target was always 40 points as well but I don't remember wearing a neck brace after his matches.

I know Sam was well loved by many on here and I'm sure that has only been amplified since his surprise sacking and our current demise but it was far from rosy and resulted in the split we now endure and was always going too.

Impossible to love him but I certainly respected his managerial ability.

As far as memory goes and your mention of Hughes. Hughes first season was absolutely awful, once he'd sussed that Stead was not Premier League material (proven since every season despite a large fan club of less knowledgeable types on here) he played 4-5-1 with only the diminutive Dickov up front. It was horrible to watch but it was the best shot he had to ensure Prem survival given the players that he was left with by Souness. The comparison with Allardyces situation is remarkeable cos he too was left with a poor and demoralised squad when he came in after the Ince fiasco. Difference being that back then Hughes still had a good few bob to play with and I can only assume sound judgement and a superb network of scouts and agents.

The fact remains that over the past 20 years there are only 3 previous managers that I would choose to have back to get us out of this mess and they are Hughes, Allardyce and Dalglish.... and in that order too!

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Strangely I have an IQ of 154 - what's yours?

154!! What utter, utter rubbish. That would put you in about the top 0.5% of the population, even Einstein only had 160. At least do some research before you make up your fake arguments. Unless your mum set up the test for you? Divide that by 10 and I'd believe it was your age. 1st in Maths at Warwick Uni ok? Not that there's any need for this "my dad's harder than your dad" rubbish. One look at the patronising, self-important, inconsistent, ignorant garbage you spout is enough for a clear view of your non-existent intelligence.

[thenodrog]

Once again, a snide and pointless post from the most predictable nut case on the MB.

Agreed 47er... although he does appear to have some stiff competition at present.