[Archived] Did Big Sam ruin Rovers fans?

[Pedro]

Its a FACT that he'll say that but it isn't true! 80% are not happy, only some of them are (why they are God knows) and, if he stays you'll see how many turn up next season and how far season tickets numbers slide once again.

Plenty of the 80% (your figure) go because they've already paid, we don't chuck money away in Lancashire. Even so, plenty who have got season tickets are not going to as many games as they used to.

Read my original post and you will see that I spelt out that this is not my opinion but this is how spurting out nonsense mathematics will be perceived when you look at them without an agenda. I've resorted to pointing out when something is a statement rather than an opinion to dodge the uprising of the internet warriors who read a line, then rant and rave...but in toad boys case, it isn't blatant enough .

I totally support what you are saying, that matches my opinion which I clearly said - if things don't improve drastically or Kean isn't replaced then that 5000 will skyrocket. Those are my exact thoughts but Wonderfrog didn't bother to read what I put, just took offence to me pointing out that his opinion has a serious flaw. The likes of him are the poster boys that the non-protesters imagine and they weaken a valid section of supporters with their inability to accept criticism, adapt their opinions or even see the wider picture.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Agreed 47er... although he does appear to have some stiff competition at present.

We are all mere novices compared with the grand poo bah of self aggrandisement and bluster that is your good self.

[47er]

Steve Kean retains the support and sympathy of many fans who didn't exactly enjoy the Allardyce era.

I doubt that's true but its impossible to quantify. However, if true they'll be able to enjoy the rest of the ride into the Championship. Nowt so queer as folk.

[Jimmy612]

Erm me foolish?

I think you need to do a teeny weeny bit of research about Allardyce and Gartside and their "friendship"...and the financial backing he received...and the state of the clubs finances off the back of the financial backing he received. But silly me thinking that Campo, Djorkaeff, Hierro, Okacha etc. were playing free of charge and that Anelka actually made a free transfer and was paid purely in love and Peter Kay DVD's.

Further foolishness by me suggesting that Saint Sam was twice sacked because Mike Ashley and the Venkys loved him to pieces...oh no sorry, it was "moronic" wasn't it?

As for your suggestions, Tony Pulis, Alan Pardew, Harry Redknapp (3 times).

Also Harry saved Pompey and I'll let you do the research as to who who saved West Ham a couple of years back?? Don't be so blinkered buddy, and less of thinking people who disagree with you are foolish because facts often bite you on the old behind. I can dislike both Kean and Big Sam and still love Rovers.

Strangely, I have an IQ of 154 - what's yours?

Allardyce left Bolton due to them not having enough ambition, they wouldn't back him with money when they were pushing for the champions league. Rather like Hughes at Rovers. He felt he had to leave to push his career forward, the opportunity arrived at Newcastle and unfortunately he was poorly treated by an owner (&fans) who wanted to much too fast.

Those players would be on decent wages but when you consider the limited transfer fees he was paying for them, and the excellent players he was signing, there is very little you can argue with. All of the players you have mentioned did excellently at the club. Anelka was the only one who cost a decent amount of money and he was later sold for about double the price they paid.

To suggest that Venkys didn't like him is moronic. Are you telling me that they know anything about football or what a good manager is, or even what is good for the club itself? There reasons for sacking him were completely unattached to the man himself!

Curbishley saved West Ham, and threw a lot of money at it (Lucas Neill etc etc), he also had a little help from a certain Carlos Tevez, something that Allardyce was sadly lacking at Blackburn...

Pulis, as much as I like him, has spent a huge amount at Stoke in recent years, Crouch, Palacios, Jones etc.

Pardew kept West Ham in the PL for one season and was sacked in the December of the next season after a shocking run of results. He has since done a terrific job at Newcastle, must credit him for that. Lets see where they finish at the end of the season. Personally I don't think he can hold a candle to Allardyce off the back of a good start to this campaign. scraping the barrell.

None of this explains your personal vendetta for Allardyce, after the terrific job he did for us.

[Pedro]

154!! What utter, utter rubbish. That would put you in about the top 0.5% of the population, even Einstein only had 160. At least do some research before you make up your fake arguments. Unless your mum set up the test for you? Divide that by 10 and I'd believe it was your age. 1st in Maths at Warwick Uni ok? Not that there's any need for this "my dad's harder than your dad" rubbish. One look at the patronising, self-important, inconsistent, ignorant garbage you spout is enough for a clear view of your non-existent intelligence.

That is my IQ and you'll live with it seeing as you brought it up. I don't feel the need to discuss it with a stranger who hasn't the common sense to work out that I'm blatantly older than 19, you have no idea of my occupation or absolutely anything about me other than the team I support. BUT if you are willing to pop some serious hard cash on the line, I'm more than willing to prove it to you in any way you see fit - are you up for that???

If you knew anything about I.Q's you would understand that you are talking absolute nonsense. People with 140 plus IQ's aren't all scientists and theorists and Einstein isn't the benchmark for ultra high IQ's...some people have 220+!!! Do you honestly think that everyday people don't have high IQ's? In terms of celebs I think Jimmy Saville had one approx 150 and Shakira (alongside being bang tidy) is classed as having a genius IQ too! (I even heard that Liam Gallagher has a 150 plus IQ!).

Pretty much anyone who has passed a Grammar School entry exam will have at least 130-135 - even those so called thick kids who turned to drugs.

I don't want to poo on a thread living out an arguement but if you want to start a new thread somewhere else I'll gladly contribute.

[thenodrog]

It's a bit disingenuous to dismiss the mauling at OT in the light of recent results. There's been a sea change in scorelines and approaches to games this season that wasn't there at the time of last season's capitulation. 7-1 scorelines were still rare and that performance was a disgrace whichever way you try to dress it up.

Piffle. Utter and complete rubbish. You are just saying the first thing that comes into your head to win arguments without any thought whatsoever.

Check out last seasons scorelines and then come back and make a retraction of that statement. There were loads of suprisingly high scores last season even before we got tanked at OT. Just as an example in August alone Wigans first two matches ended in em gettin thumped at the DW 0-4 by Blackpool and 0-6 by Chelsea (Chelsea had beaten WBA 6-0 the week before), Blackpool themselves were tonked 0-6 by Arsenal a week later. I rem NUFC getting hammered one week but knocking 5 past Sunderland and pulling back from 0-4 down against the Arsenal to draw 4-4!

Just to put things in perspective last Nov we played 5 matches, we beat AV and Wigan at home, beat NUFC away and lost famously away to MU and Spurs and got 9 points out of 15. I'd bloody well take a repeat of those results this season for sure. Wouldn't you deryck?

[Majiball]

Impossible to love him but I certainly respected his managerial ability.

As far as memory goes and your mention of Hughes. Hughes first season was absolutely awful, once he'd sussed that Stead was not Premier League material (proven since every season despite a large fan club of less knowledgeable types on here) he played 4-5-1 with only the diminutive Dickov up front. It was horrible to watch but it was the best shot he had to ensure Prem survival given the players that he was left with by Souness. The comparison with Allardyces situation is remarkeable cos he too was left with a poor and demoralised squad when he came in after the Ince fiasco. Difference being that back then Hughes still had a good few bob to play with and I can only assume sound judgement and a superb network of scouts and agents.

The fact remains that over the past 20 years there are only 3 previous managers that I would choose to have back to get us out of this mess and they are Hughes, Allardyce and Dalglish.... and in that order too!

I never said I didn't respect him and have said he did a decent job.

Trouble is Hughes moved the style forward after season 1 as Den said with the likes of Bellamy coming in, yes Hughes was lucky in that he didn't have to sell to buy as we had our annual 5 million a season but Hughes significantly increased the value of our squad. Allardyce had a decent amount of cash to play with though during his reign.

I remember you wanted Allardyce when Hughes left and fair play we ended up with spud boy, but Sam never spent his limited funds wisely for me. We signed some right dross under him and it's part of the reason we are struggling today. I remember the Salgado incident ( sam wanting his way) and then selling our left back and signing a right back after already signing two of them. He was poor in the market for us IMO and Givet was his only decent signing.

As I said he did a decent job for us and I'd have him here over Kean in a heartbeat, but I'd want Hughes first, Dalglish well I'll always love him, but couldn't believe it when he decided the golf course was his home over Ewood.

[Majiball]

Erm me foolish?

I think you need to do a teeny weeny bit of research about Allardyce and Gartside and their "friendship"...and the financial backing he received...and the state of the clubs finances off the back of the financial backing he received. But silly me thinking that Campo, Djorkaeff, Hierro, Okacha etc. were playing free of charge and that Anelka actually made a free transfer and was paid purely in love and Peter Kay DVD's.

Further foolishness by me suggesting that Saint Sam was twice sacked because Mike Ashley and the Venkys loved him to pieces...oh no sorry, it was "moronic" wasn't it?

As for your suggestions, Tony Pulis, Alan Pardew, Harry Redknapp (3 times).

Also Harry saved Pompey and I'll let you do the research as to who who saved West Ham a couple of years back?? Don't be so blinkered buddy, and less of thinking people who disagree with you are foolish because facts often bite you on the old behind. I can dislike both Kean and Big Sam and still love Rovers.

Strangely, I have an IQ of 154 - what's yours?

154!! What utter, utter rubbish. That would put you in about the top 0.5% of the population, even Einstein only had 160. At least do some research before you make up your fake arguments. Unless your mum set up the test for you? Divide that by 10 and I'd believe it was your age. 1st in Maths at Warwick Uni ok? Not that there's any need for this "my dad's harder than your dad" rubbish. One look at the patronising, self-important, inconsistent, ignorant garbage you spout is enough for a clear view of your non-existent intelligence.

That is my IQ and you'll live with it seeing as you brought it up. I don't feel the need to discuss it with a stranger who hasn't the common sense to work out that I'm blatantly older than 19, you have no idea of my occupation or absolutely anything about me other than the team I support. BUT if you are willing to pop some serious hard cash on the line, I'm more than willing to prove it to you in any way you see fit - are you up for that???

If you knew anything about I.Q's you would understand that you are talking absolute nonsense. People with 140 plus IQ's aren't all scientists and theorists and Einstein isn't the benchmark for ultra high IQ's...some people have 220+!!! Do you honestly think that everyday people don't have high IQ's? In terms of celebs I think Jimmy Saville had one approx 150 and Shakira (alongside being bang tidy) is classed as having a genius IQ too! (I even heard that Liam Gallagher has a 150 plus IQ!).

Pretty much anyone who has passed a Grammar School entry exam will have at least 130-135 - even those so called thick kids who turned to drugs.

I don't want to poo on a thread living out an arguement but if you want to start a new thread somewhere else I'll gladly contribute.

Were IQ tests around when Einstein was alive????

220 no wonder they are no longer considered to be a true reflection of intelligence.

[Pedro]

Allardyce left Bolton due to them not having enough ambition, they wouldn't back him with money when they were pushing for the champions league. Rather like Hughes at Rovers. He felt he had to leave to push his career forward, the opportunity arrived at Newcastle and unfortunately he was poorly treated by an owner (&fans) who wanted to much too fast.

Those players would be on decent wages but when you consider the limited transfer fees he was paying for them, and the excellent players he was signing, there is very little you can argue with. All of the players you have mentioned did excellently at the club. Anelka was the only one who cost a decent amount of money and he was later sold for about double the price they paid.

To suggest that Venkys didn't like him is moronic. Are you telling me that they know anything about football or what a good manager is, or even what is good for the club itself? There reasons for sacking him were completely unattached to the man himself!

Curbishley saved West Ham, and threw a lot of money at it (Lucas Neill etc etc), he also had a little help from a certain Carlos Tevez, something that Allardyce was sadly lacking at Blackburn...

Pulis, as much as I like him, has spent a huge amount at Stoke in recent years, Crouch, Palacios, Jones etc.

Pardew kept West Ham in the PL for one season and was sacked in the December of the next season after a shocking run of results. He has since done a terrific job at Newcastle, must credit him for that. Lets see where they finish at the end of the season. Personally I don't think he can hold a candle to Allardyce off the back of a good start to this campaign. scraping the barrell.

None of this explains your personal vendetta for Allardyce, after the terrific job he did for us.

I'm not sure why you are just countering my arguements with money etc. I think they are valid answers and comparisons.

I genuinely don't have a personal vendetta against Big Sam, but you are met with quite a lot of hatred on this site if you offer any chink of light regarding Kean or dare offer an opinion that differs from the masses.

If you look back at my opinions of him they are purely - he didn't want to manage us and he often put us down in terms of low expectations. He sold himself to the media but didn't sell the club to them and in my opinion disrespected the club by touting himself for the England (or any other high profile job). I personally found it depressing watching the style of football that we played - to the point of not wanting to come to Ewood anymore because it was such a bind. I fall into the category that I need more than just a mundane match and occasional win - I'm not on my own but there are plenty of others who disagree with that train of thought which I accept.

To very many, he isn't a likeable chap but I am not questioning in any way that his results record wasn't good enough. I'm also not questioning that he was shat on by the Venkys and I'm now of the same school of thought that there is simply something wrong about their ownership.

I'm just a firm believer that there is a management compromise out there (in the style of football that Hughes and some extent Souness played) that better suits my vision of Rovers. Hughes proved it can be done on a tight budget and I feel he deserves a much greater recognition rather than people portraying Big Sam as a whiter than white legend simply because we have someone inept in charge.

[thenodrog]

Out of interest can you suggest me someone who has done a better job at taking a team up and making them a success in the PL. Or even someone who has taken over a team in 20th in December and guided them so successfully to 10th position in 16 months?

Erm me foolish?

I think you need to do a teeny weeny bit of research about Allardyce

As for your suggestions, Tony Pulis, Alan Pardew, Harry Redknapp (3 times).

Don't be so blinkered buddy, and less of thinking people who disagree with you are foolish because facts often bite you on the old behind. I can dislike both Kean and Big Sam and still love Rovers.

Strangely, I have an IQ of 154 - what's yours?

have you missed out a decimal point there Pedro? I think you must have.

Pulis, Pardew and Redknap? Truth is that neither Stoke, Charlton, WHU or Portsmouth ever managed a top 6 finish. Nor did they manage 4 consecutive seasons in 8th position or higher as Bolton did. Credit where credit is due. I bet you (and deryck) just bloody hate google dont you?

[Pedro]

Were IQ tests around when Einstein was alive????

220 no wonder they are no longer considered to be a true reflection of intelligence.

They are just glorified puzzles to be honest, but it sounds like it means heck of a lot to the guy who is trying to tear me a new bum hole because I questioned his stats!

Mine is genuinely what I said it is, but that doesn't mean I have the slightest idea how to fix my car when it breaks, get Sky to record tv via my mobile, boil a perfect egg...or stop me hurling abuse at John Terry

[Amo]

Notice how no one mentions the 6-2 drubbing at Arsenal?

That's because we actually gave it a go that day. It just fell apart in the second half.

The mauling at Old Trafford was humiliating. It wasn't even a case of being outclassed. We'd lost the game before the whistle had been blown. Still, I'm sure Allardyce and Fergie had a good chuckle about it afterwards.

[Pedro]

have you missed out a decimal point there Pedro? I think you must have.

Pulis, Pardew and Redknap? Truth is that neither Stoke, Charlton, WHU or Portsmouth ever managed a top 6 finish. Nor did they manage 4 consecutive seasons in 8th position or higher as Bolton did. Credit where credit is due. I bet you (and deryck) just bloody hate google dont you?

Haha you cheeky git. You can add to the challenge pot if you'd like

I'll be honest, I don't pre-use Google to back up anything I'm about to say so if I crash and burn off the back of it, so be it.

As you say, credit where it is due but I don't question Big Sam's results. As you'll see I've consistently said it was a style over results dilemma for me...and no amount of barraging can change the way I feel about it. I'm not alone with that opinion and certainly not afraid to pop myself into the firing line to get my opinion out there. I pinpoint the moment Hughes left as the when I feel I lost what was "my" Rovers. The majority on here seem to see it as when Kean took over, so with that in mind we aren't ever going to agree.

[thenodrog]

Were IQ tests around when Einstein was alive????

220 no wonder they are no longer considered to be a true reflection of intelligence.

As A Level results prove every year kids are getting brighter at an alarming rate that would not only have baffled Einstein but Darwin too! Still no wonder they'd have struggled they were just a bit on the bright side not proper geniuses like pedro were they?

[Majiball]

As A Level results prove every year kids are getting brighter at an alarming rate that would not only have baffled Einstein but Darwin too! Still no wonder they'd have struggled they were just a bit on the bright side not proper geniuses like pedro were they?

Well that's not the consensus at universities.

[thenodrog]

If you look back at my opinions of him they are purely - he didn't want to manage us and he often put us down in terms of low expectations. He sold himself to the media but didn't sell the club to them and in my opinion disrespected the club by touting himself for the England (or any other high profile job).

As you say, credit where it is due but I don't question Big Sam's results. As you'll see I've consistently said it was a style over results dilemma for me...and no amount of barraging can change the way I feel about it. I'm not alone with that opinion and certainly not afraid to pop myself into the firing line to get my opinion out there. I pinpoint the moment Hughes left as the when I feel I lost what was "my" Rovers. The majority on here seem to see it as when Kean took over, so with that in mind we aren't ever going to agree.

I've already said that my 3 best managers over the Prem years are Hughes, Allardyce and Dalglish in that order (Souness doesn't come close imo given the state he left us in), Hughes was special but he still pimped himself to Chelsea and when that fell through he signed for City under Shinwatra and Cooke within the hour. Thats just the way football works. Whoever comes will leave if a big wealthier club comes in. I also am led to believe that Mark Hughes was generally unpleasant and uncommunicative too on a personal level.

As for Allardyce and the England job.... Whats wrong with ambition like that? The England manager is the top job in the country and a goal for any Englishman of ambition. I'm guessing but the beginning of the end for Allardyce at Bolton was losing out to Maclaren (who genuinely is a managerial pygmy) for the England job when it was down to the two of them. By concensus Allardyce interviewed miles better but didn't get the job. I'm sure that that made him realise that he had to be associated with success at a big club rather than at an unfashionable little northern outpost. I'm guessing but if he'd have been at NUFC and kept them in the top 8 for 4 years and got them into Europe to boot that Shhteve Maclaren would have stayed at Boro and been sacked by Gibson within 12 months.

[BRFC1995]

I dislike wham more than most clubs but i seriously hope that when they are promoted which seems as inevitable as us getting relegated that allardyce publically gives kean the dogs abuse he deserves

well done sam brilliant (proper) manager with backbone.........worst decision if it was yours though was hiring the parasite now in charge as a coach.

[FourLaneBlue]

No, the Venky's ruined the Rovers fans. Or, even more likely, a certain Jerome Anderson.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Piffle. Utter and complete rubbish. You are just saying the first thing that comes into your head to win arguments without any thought whatsoever.

Check out last seasons scorelines and then come back and make a retraction of that statement. There were loads of suprisingly high scores last season even before we got tanked at OT. Just as an example in August alone Wigans first two matches ended in em gettin thumped at the DW 0-4 by Blackpool and 0-6 by Chelsea (Chelsea had beaten WBA 6-0 the week before), Blackpool themselves were tonked 0-6 by Arsenal a week later. I rem NUFC getting hammered one week but knocking 5 past Sunderland and pulling back from 0-4 down against the Arsenal to draw 4-4!

Just to put things in perspective last Nov we played 5 matches, we beat AV and Wigan at home, beat NUFC away and lost famously away to MU and Spurs and got 9 points out of 15. I'd bloody well take a repeat of those results this season for sure. Wouldn't you deryck?

The point I was making was that at this time last year Arsenal shipping 8, Utd conceding 6 anywhere and Chelsea losing 5-3 at home was unthinkable. Even though you are something of a low watt bulb you knew that. You are using these recent developments in an attempt to excuse the humiliation at Utd. For reasons best known to yourself you have constantly attempted to gloss over the Old Trafford capitulation.

You may have numerous bogs and accountants but you are rubbish at spin.

[jim mk2]

you have constantly attempted to gloss over the Old Trafford capitulation.

Old Trafford was a bad day at the office. All teams and all managers have them. Sam's opponents focus on ths match but fail to see the bigger picture of the gradual improvement year-on-year that he was achieving. Those "supporters" who wanted Sam out of Ewood and possibly influenced Venky's decision to sack him as has been suggested should hang their head in shame.

[thenodrog]

The point I was making was that at this time last year Arsenal shipping 8, Utd conceding 6 anywhere and Chelsea losing 5-3 at home was unthinkable. Even though you are something of a low watt bulb you knew that. You are using these recent developments in an attempt to excuse the humiliation at Utd. For reasons best known to yourself you have constantly attempted to gloss over the Old Trafford capitulation.

You may have numerous bogs and accountants but you are rubbish at spin.

Me gloss over stuff? Me spin? Yet you have completely sidestepped the main question. Here I'll try again in bold.

"Just to put things in perspective last Nov we played 5 matches, we beat AV and Wigan at home, beat NUFC away and lost famously away to MU and Spurs and got 9 points out of 15. I'd bloody well take a repeat of those results this season for sure. Wouldn't you deryck?"

Now given that we currently have amassed a grand total of 6 points from 33 I hardly think you have a leg to stand on. Anyway don't let me stop your searing 150 watt intellect from answering my dsperately low watt question. Off you go Torchy.

btw what have toilets and accountants got to do with anything? How many do you have?

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Old Trafford was a bad day at the office. All teams and all managers have them. Sam's opponents focus on ths match but fail to see the bigger picture of the gradual improvement year-on-year that he was achieving. Those "supporters" who wanted Sam out of Ewood and possibly influenced Venky's decision to sack him as has been suggested should hang their head in shame.

Allardyce's pragmatism seemed to influence some limp performances against teams he may have believed we couldn't win against and I think that culminated in the embarrassment at Utd. Allardyce is a good manager who did well for us and his sacking, coming when it did, was ridiculous. That said, it's a bit much to say folk who wanted him out should hang their heads in shame. Some of the football we played was soul crushing and, whilst it was too much to expect champagne football, "supporters" were entitled to ask for better.

[thenodrog]

Old Trafford was a bad day at the office. All teams and all managers have them. Sam's opponents focus on ths match but fail to see the bigger picture of the gradual improvement year-on-year that he was achieving. Those "supporters" who wanted Sam out of Ewood and possibly influenced Venky's decision to sack him as has been suggested should hang their head in shame.

Cue a chorus of bleating sheep all insisting "yes... but I meant at the end of the season when we were 10th or better and only cos I thought the billionaires from Pune would get Jose Mourhino in to replace him."

The ignorance and sheer bloody nerve of some people to apportion blame elesewhere whilst refusing to look in a mirror at their own stupid reflection is absolutely breathtaking.

[jim mk2]

, "supporters" were entitled to ask for better.

Supporters who "were entitled to ask for better" might reflect that Sam was successfully managing a smallish club punching miles above its weight in the toughest league in the world. They must be delighted that their wishes came true when he was sacked and we are now bottom of the table and heading for relegation as a consequence.

[thenodrog]

Allardyce's pragmatism seemed to influence some limp performances against teams he may have believed we couldn't win against and I think that culminated in the embarrassment at Utd. Allardyce is a good manager who did well for us and his sacking, coming when it did, was ridiculous. That said, it's a bit much to say folk who wanted him out should hang their heads in shame. Some of the football we played was soul crushing and, whilst it was too much to expect champagne football, "supporters" were entitled to ask for better.

Bloody hell Jim..... Prophetic or what? even as I typed my previous post Deryck was penning his 'don't blame me....blahitty blah' piece.

I'm not sorry for saying "I told you so" Deryck cos "I did bloody tell you so."