[Archived] Poppy ban overturned

[Stuart]

Believe me, I won't be here much longer. And I know that will only gladden your heart, but that's not really my concern. Perhaps every country does have a dark side to its history, but not every country in the world invented concentration camps, Britain did. Not every country was a pioneer in the use of chemical weapons, Britain was. Not every country initiated one of the most barbaric slave trades in history, Britain did and practically built half the nation on the back of it. Not every country engineered the system that guarantees the continuation of third world debt, but Britain was one of them. Not every country drew the artifical borders that created so much conflict in Africa and the Middle East, once again Britain did. I could go on.

Soldiers are free to educate themselves on what they are signing up for, and the truth is that they won't be sent to die for anything as noble as our freedom. Wars aren't fought over grand ideas, they are fought because it's in the interests of a few very influential people. But believe the sickening lies of patriotism and democracy if you like, I just feel like those concepts in our society are little more than an insult to the intelligence of people who are capable of independent thought.

The irony is that the "accept our way or get out" attitude that the most vehement of 'your kind' (since we're labelling) adopt is exactly the kind of thing that we claim to have protected by entering most wars in the past 100 or so years. Wearing a poppy shows much less respect than allowing people to enjoy the 'freedom' that we're told our servicemen died for.

It seems especially ironic that this bout of sentiment has come at a time when the wars we fight are becoming increasingly unjustifiable. If you want to show respect to those who fought in WWI and WWII then great, this isn't the place and I don't have time to explain why I don't feel compelled to do the same. However, please don't tell me that fighting in wars like Iraq and Afghanistan were noble causes, because we've killed far more civilians in those countries than Saddam or the Taliban ever did, and the threat that those countries never really posed to us has now materialised far closer to home. Job done, huh?

Anyway, although I could extend my argument to explain my opposition to the international game, this has nothing to do with football and it would have been better if the issue had never been brought up, but at least it provided a distraction from the fact that the Spanish are probably going to make England look like amateurs on their own turf.

Did you respect the 2 minute silence to remember those people who gave their lives so that you could be afforded the right to type this kind of self-righteous bull under the guise of free speech?

It's people like yourself who mean Wooton Bassett have to stop honouring their war dead, or servicemen and women have to change out of their uniform before walking around towns for fear of being attacked.

The poppy is, and has been as long as I've been alive, a symbol of those who died in WWI and WWII. But even if it has been broadened to include all dead from all war then do you think those people should be ignored or forgotten because you don't agree with why they were at war? These people are ordinary people like you and me, except far braver and deserving of far more respect than I, and certainly you, show them.

You sir (or madam), and people like you, with your lack of pride, are the reason why this country is the way it is. Belittle it, dishonour it, bad mouth it, and then leave.

The fact you wish to insinuate that the British are worse than Saddam's regime or the Taliban makes me sick. Enjoy your new home. They are lucky to have you.

It's time this thread was moved to ICBINF.

[Audax]

Jisty, I agree with your comment. I meant to say in my earlier post that I was dismissing any comments that were politicising this issue. That's not what this is about and many informative comments likewise have been made per this issue in regards to Fifa.

[Paul Mellelieu]

The poppy appeal is to remember the war dead and honour those who gave their lives. Nothing more.

Read this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6133312.stm

Jim,

I fully understand the history of the poppy appeal, but it is used by politicians and the military top brass to justify their version of C20th and more recent history.

[Steve Moss]

The fact you wish to insinuate that the British are worse than Saddam's regime or the Taliban makes me sick. Enjoy your new home. They are lucky to have you.

I just hope his new home is not in the USA.

At the Veteran's Day Parade yesterday there were many poppies on display. Which in my memory is a fairly new phenomenon in the USA, but appears to be gaining traction the last several years.

What shocked me the most was the USA and Canadian flags being walked side by side in Lake Havasu by veterans. I couldn't decide if: 1) we'd taken them over; or, 2) they'd taken us over. Either way, it was a nice sight.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

It won't be, don't worry. Why trade the historical home of evil for the its current residence? I would be embarrassed to live in a country where the only thoughts in the heads of the majority are the ones they are spoon-fed by the media. I mean, any nation that could possibly let Rick Perry have a shot at becoming their leader should really just give up, but hey, this is America, where rhetoric rules and actually being fit for purpose is unimportant.

And Jisty, just to pick up on that particular point, in terms of causing the deaths of innocents, Hussein and bin Laden weren't even in the same league as Blair, Bush et al. So don't think I was trying to insinuate anything, because I'll say exactly what I mean.

I've never asked anyone to kill for me and I never will, and I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to kill or be killed for the values that Britain holds so dear, because they aren't my values. So, why should I worry about respecting people who fought for a cause that I don't agree with?

Patriotism is nothing more than a lie that the state tells its people to justify putting power in the hands of the few. They convince you that you share a common enemy and that giving them your money, your freedom and your dignity will allow them to keep you safe. Well guess what? I don't believe it, so I won't be going out looking to hurt soldiers because no group of people deserves that, but I also won't be manipulated or pressured into honouring the heroes of a fabricated entity that takes everything and offers precious little in return.

I know it's difficult to see past doing what is expected of you when you've lived like that for so long, so I'll likely never get any of you to even consider my point of view, so this will be my last post on the matter. Feel free to make your ripostes and take my silence as a victory.

[BuckyRover]

I appreciate your opinion but I am interested as to where you are moving to.

[Stuart]

Victory? Ironic word you use there, no?

Why should you respect people who fought for a cause you don't believe in?

Because if they hadn't done that. For you. Yes, you. Then you wouldn't have the freedoms that you enjoy.

I don't like getting personal with posters, particularly on a faceless message board, but you are a hypocrite.

Like I said, I hope you enjoy your new life/home. I'm sure it will be utopian compared to this country.

This isn't about government or politics, it's about people. People like Lancashire Regiment deserve your respect.

 

[AllRoverAsia]

It won't be, don't worry. Why trade the historical home of evil for the its current residence? I would be embarrassed to live in a country where the only thoughts in the heads of the majority are the ones they are spoon-fed by the media. I mean, any nation that could possibly let Rick Perry have a shot at becoming their leader should really just give up, but hey, this is America, where rhetoric rules and actually being fit for purpose is unimportant.

And Jisty, just to pick up on that particular point, in terms of causing the deaths of innocents, Hussein and bin Laden weren't even in the same league as Blair, Bush et al. So don't think I was trying to insinuate anything, because I'll say exactly what I mean.

I've never asked anyone to kill for me and I never will, and I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to kill or be killed for the values that Britain holds so dear, because they aren't my values. So, why should I worry about respecting people who fought for a cause that I don't agree with?

Patriotism is nothing more than a lie that the state tells its people to justify putting power in the hands of the few. They convince you that you share a common enemy and that giving them your money, your freedom and your dignity will allow them to keep you safe. Well guess what? I don't believe it, so I won't be going out looking to hurt soldiers because no group of people deserves that, but I also won't be manipulated or pressured into honouring the heroes of a fabricated entity that takes everything and offers precious little in return.

I know it's difficult to see past doing what is expected of you when you've lived like that for so long, so I'll likely never get any of you to even consider my point of view, so this will be my last post on the matter. Feel free to make your ripostes and take my silence as a victory.

You are the fortunate. God Bless You and Me who din't have to.

You are the fortunate. God Bless You and Me who didn't have to.(Chang beer ****)

[Tom]

Nice that Phil Jones decided not to wear one (or has he lost it)

[AllRoverAsia]

Nice that Phil Jones decided not to wear one (or has he lost it)

Who you born ######? capitals only so its not missed

[Baz]

Believe me, I won't be here much longer. And I know that will only gladden your heart, but that's not really my concern. Perhaps every country does have a dark side to its history, but not every country in the world invented concentration camps, Britain did. Not every country was a pioneer in the use of chemical weapons, Britain was. Not every country initiated one of the most barbaric slave trades in history, Britain did and practically built half the nation on the back of it. Not every country engineered the system that guarantees the continuation of third world debt, but Britain was one of them. Not every country drew the artifical borders that created so much conflict in Africa and the Middle East, once again Britain did. I could go on.

Soldiers are free to educate themselves on what they are signing up for, and the truth is that they won't be sent to die for anything as noble as our freedom. Wars aren't fought over grand ideas, they are fought because it's in the interests of a few very influential people. But believe the sickening lies of patriotism and democracy if you like, I just feel like those concepts in our society are little more than an insult to the intelligence of people who are capable of independent thought.

The irony is that the "accept our way or get out" attitude that the most vehement of 'your kind' (since we're labelling) adopt is exactly the kind of thing that we claim to have protected by entering most wars in the past 100 or so years. Wearing a poppy shows much less respect than allowing people to enjoy the 'freedom' that we're told our servicemen died for.

It seems especially ironic that this bout of sentiment has come at a time when the wars we fight are becoming increasingly unjustifiable. If you want to show respect to those who fought in WWI and WWII then great, this isn't the place and I don't have time to explain why I don't feel compelled to do the same. However, please don't tell me that fighting in wars like Iraq and Afghanistan were noble causes, because we've killed far more civilians in those countries than Saddam or the Taliban ever did, and the threat that those countries never really posed to us has now materialised far closer to home. Job done, huh?

Anyway, although I could extend my argument to explain my opposition to the international game, this has nothing to do with football and it would have been better if the issue had never been brought up, but at least it provided a distraction from the fact that the Spanish are probably going to make England look like amateurs on their own turf.

We are remembering our war dead, not the people who sent them there. It is not political.

One of my proudest moments as a Rovers fan, was to see the long and massive standing reception given to the soldiers who received their post-Afganistan tour medals a few years back. We should be very proud of our soldiers, even if we disagree on the politics behind their armed conflicts.

[adopted scouser]

"British" life can die out completely for me, I won't miss it. I'm not infected with nostalgia for something that never existed, and I won't celebrate a nation that built its 'greatness' on the exploitation of the rest of the world just because the majority believe that we redeemed ourselves by fighting the two World Wars.

The entire world has its values mixed up as far as I'm concerned, and whatever anyone thinks of me I won't align myself with a group that has been so proud in committing atrocities, even if my place of birth does entitle me to membership.

Has anyone wondered what would have happened if one of the England players had expressed a wish not to be forced to wear a shirt with a poppy on it?

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. Today of all days, idiot.

[thenodrog]

Not true. I remember the war dead each year on this day and think about the people who fought fascism.

A great uncle of mine was killed by the Nazis btw.

Really?

1. Which cenotaph did you attend this morning?

2. It's generally accepted that more people lost great uncles to Uncle Joe's commies.

It won't be, don't worry. Why trade the historical home of evil for the its current residence? I would be embarrassed to live in a country where the only thoughts in the heads of the majority are the ones they are spoon-fed by the media. I mean, any nation that could possibly let Rick Perry have a shot at becoming their leader should really just give up, but hey, this is America, where rhetoric rules and actually being fit for purpose is unimportant.

And Jisty, just to pick up on that particular point, in terms of causing the deaths of innocents, Hussein and bin Laden weren't even in the same league as Blair, Bush et al. So don't think I was trying to insinuate anything, because I'll say exactly what I mean.

I've never asked anyone to kill for me and I never will, and I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to kill or be killed for the values that Britain holds so dear, because they aren't my values. So, why should I worry about respecting people who fought for a cause that I don't agree with?

Patriotism is nothing more than a lie that the state tells its people to justify putting power in the hands of the few. They convince you that you share a common enemy and that giving them your money, your freedom and your dignity will allow them to keep you safe. Well guess what? I don't believe it, so I won't be going out looking to hurt soldiers because no group of people deserves that, but I also won't be manipulated or pressured into honouring the heroes of a fabricated entity that takes everything and offers precious little in return.

I know it's difficult to see past doing what is expected of you when you've lived like that for so long, so I'll likely never get any of you to even consider my point of view, so this will be my last post on the matter. Feel free to make your ripostes and take my silence as a victory.

Jeru tha damaga... the most balanced person on here. But only cos he has a huge chip on both shoulders.

Funnily enough I am beginning to formulate a clear mental image of you in my mind.