[Archived] Just WHY were we bought?

[FourLaneBlue]

Going back 12 months, we were hoping that we were about to start a new chapter in the glorious story of Blackburn Rovers Football Club. These Indians millionaires talked of the Champions League, new signings, ambition...

12 months on...and we have, at best, our worst ever manager being offered a new contract. At worst, he has signed the damn thing. Jerome Anderson casts a shadow over the whole place. Some questions -

1. Who really runs Rovers and makes the decisions? It´s obviously not Venky´s. Some might hope that they make some few major decisions. Really? They would decide to sack Sam and replace him with Kean? Nah...not likely. They alone decided he deserves a new contract despite bringing on loads of protests which were starting to turn against them? No, not logical.

2. How much money have Venky´s REALLY put in? Any? Have they purchased the club then put that as debt on the club a la Glazer? Is that possible? They have mortgages out on our future earnings, how much of that cash is for Rovers and how much for outside intests?

3. How much has Jerome Anderson made out of the club? Agent fees, through his son etc. Is he the one saying what is what? I remember when posters on here didn´t see any problem if we only looked for players through one agent. Is Anderson´s role a conflict of interest? Perhaps not, if all the interest is going into his account. How much have Rovers paid out in agent fees in the last year?

4. Just what do Venky´s want Rovers for? PR in the UK? Then it doesn´t make sense to get all your fans hating you by sticking two fingers up as they appearing to be doing now. Just WHAT do they want from Rovers?

5. Getting rid of seasoned, experienced, professional businessmen with invaluable knowledge of Rovers, one of which promptly went to the richest club in the world. How is there any logic in that, unless we assume that they don´t want anyone there to complain about what is going on?

6. Asset stripping. How much could be ripped out of Rovers in a few years, while putting all the debt onto the club, then attempting to walk away/wind the club down? Could substantial money be made in this way?

All of it is bizarre, and we have not yet had a really good answer to...

Just why, exactly, did Venky´s/SEM/Kentaro/whatever buy Rovers?

[joey_big_nose]

Totally agree. It all defies understanding. Best I can come up with is:-

The Walker Trust commission Anderson to find buyers -> Anderson contacts Venky's in pursuit of his finders fee -> he massively concealed the risks and issues of running a football club to make sure he closed the sale -> Venkys took over expecting running the club to be relatively straightforward, were humiliated by Rovers losing 7-0 to Man Utd when hosting a dinner party -> sacked Sam, took Anderson's advice on installing Kean -> costs of running club beginning to mount, results poor -> faced with massive agents costs of bringing in players in Jan - Roque, Jermaine, Formica, Rochina - disillusionment sets in amongst Venkys -> Other business interests emerge of higher priority and potential return, Rovers slips steadily away from focus -> Close season sees the cost of investing in the squad revealed. Decision made to sit tight as it is all costing too much money for no return. Decision to keep Kean as it saves cash- Hope that they can sell and get out.

This kind of makes sense. But then there are a number of problems:-

*Why, if Venkys had decided Rovers was a loss maker not worth the minimal investment of sacking Kean, did we buy Scott Dann?

*The above still doesn't really explain what Venkys were initally looking to get from the purchase... status maybe? Of owning a club? But then why not care about its performance?

[FourLaneBlue]

"Venkys took over expecting running the club to be relatively straightforward, were humiliated by Rovers losing 7-0 to Man Utd when hosting a dinner party -> sacked Sam, took Anderson's advice on installing Kean"

They have been humiliated way more under Kean than that one single match. They look stupid as, under them, the club hurtles down the league and protest after protest happens.

I don´t think your version adds up particularly well. The sad thing is, neither does any other version!

[den]

I didn't think anyone still believed that Sam was sacked because of the Man Utd result.

Obvious to me that this was all in position before Venky's finalised the deal. No doubt JW soon realised that, and that's why JW lost all respect for Kean after the first month. I still have this suspicion that Kean has more interests/involvements in BRFC, than simply being the manager.

As for Venky's - they were duped good and proper by JA and Kentaro. They were sold a PL football club with the promise that JA could provide the players and skills necessary, on the cheap [remember the "few loan players and £5m/ window enabling the club to reach the Champions League" quotes?] to allow Venky's to take the club into India and expand their brand.

The big worry now is that this new mortgage allows them the freedom to sell off all the component parts, now that things are going haywire.

[jannerman]

Plymouth (used an example as it's my "local" club) bought their ground from the local council in 2006 for 2.7 million.

This year the council bought it back for 1.6 million.

Potential revenue on that site is not something that I could easily calculate but land in the area is valuable prime development land, so is that the same for Ewood, or the training ground/academy land? With a commercial development, or large housing a big pile of cash could be made...or loan secured against it.

It's so hard for us laymen to pick over the bones of a Football Club, but with Venky's having other companies and an overarching management structure in place they have the ability to keep the structure lean at Rovers which is what they seem to be doing isn't it?

Then of course the speculation on player trade, I guess we'll get a better bead on that in January with who comes/goes and for what sort of deals.

The whole thing is a mess, and I'm convinced that the club is now in the hands of the wrong sort of people - but can't quite link it all together to figure out the who, why and the how.

How much better would it be being owned by an actual fan again like dear old Jack?

[broadsword]

[remember the "few loan players and £5m/ window enabling the club to reach the Champions League" quotes?] to allow Venky's to take the club into India and expand their brand.

Yes, that was a comment to set alarm bells ringing.

Don't forget they actually said players "on lease" betraying a lack of familiarity with football. Although, to be fair, Barry Nugget is mad about Barcelona, so I'm obviously being harsh there.

I don't they even saw the books before buying the club. I think Mr Toad must have abused their trust. I would think Mr Toad and Mr Mole have made a nice little mint. I doubt the nugget family has put any money in at all, and I think they don't want to let go because the club gets their name known (but not in a good way).

The crux of the matter is why don't they sell the club (a losing concern) as quickly as possible, or at least put it on the market? Stubbornness? Misguided belief that it can be turned round? Vindictiveness after they've (possibly) been conned? Or is there a nastier motive, such as borrowing heavily on the club, transferring the money elsewhere, and then disposing of the club to the main creditor while they get out of the country.

Hmmm.

[thenodrog]

No disrespect and I'm not trying to be clever flb but why has it taken you 12 months to get this far? I suppose the irrational love of people for a football club has blinded us all to some extent, and some more than others.

Being a natural cynic I was suspicious back then but I was cut adrift in a frothy sea of optimism.

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/23703-rovers-takeover-end-game/page__view__findpost__p__977295

It's been said many times that the only good thing ever to come out of Asia was the road to England.

[BuckyRover]

I remember watching dispatches when it featured Bryan Robson and he almost literally quoted "a few loan players is all you need".

Hmmm

[John]

There was speculation over Sam's job even before the takeover.

Interesting or not that JW and Sam are both gagged so can't say anything - surely JW must be hurting see all his former good work destroyed in a few months...

Kentaro were involved with Venkys prior to the takeover, helping them with cricket sponsorship, and a charity match in HK, with the aim to raise the groups profile in Asia.

This concept of buying a football club to raise their profile was discussed for a while - from various conversations, I found out a fair bit about the Venkys group and also know that upon joining the club, a new member of staff commented they walked into a Kentaro minefield - also, due to the cashflow problems over the summer, the feeling behind the scenes would be to get our house in order this season therefore avoiding relegation would be regarded as a success.

[RovertheHill]

No disrespect and I'm not trying to be clever flb but why has it taken you 12 months to get this far? I suppose the irrational love of people for a football club has blinded us all to some extent, and some more than others.

Being a natural cynic I was suspicious back then but I was cut adrift in a frothy sea of optimism.

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/23703-rovers-takeover-end-game/page__view__findpost__p__977295

It's been said many times that the only good thing ever to come out of Asia was the road to England.

Enjoyed reading that thread again. Interestingly, some of the staunchest supporters at that time are the staunchest opponents now.

My view hasn't changed since 30 October 2010. There is no sustainable business reason for an Indian chicken company to own a premiership club. Who knows what the real reason is

[Brfcrule1]

Joey big nose realise one thing my friend you say why buy Scott Dann? the answer is as has been stated they have yet to put their own money into the club Scott Dann was probably bought with the mortgage so they have not bought him out of their own pocket.

Bryan you need to listen to podcast 14 as Philip says there are 3 groups interested in buying the club.

[joey_big_nose]

Joey big nose realise one thing my friend you say why buy Scott Dann? the answer is as has been stated they have yet to put their own money into the club Scott Dann was probably bought with the mortgage so they have not bought him out of their own pocket.

Bryan you need to listen to podcast 14 as Philip says there are 3 groups interested in buying the club.

Fair enough - but why buy him at all? If their intention is to take money out of the club why not take the 6m we paid for Dann as well? Signing him means there is 6m less in the pot to loot.

It all doesn't make any sense.

[Kelbo]

Fair enough - but why buy him at all? If their intention is to take money out of the club why not take the 6m we paid for Dann as well? Signing him means there is 6m less in the pot to loot.

It all doesn't make any sense.

Does anything make any sense that Venkys do?

In my mind we are owned by dluded clowns, managed by a deluded clown and are being ripped apart by a Cockney Spiv making millions out of our football club, total and utter disgrace!

[Miker]

There is a sustainable business reason to own it.

To say they never looked at the books before they bought it is such a ridiculous suggestion.

People forget that under the trust we were run in the same manner. 3m cash injections and loan deals. Does it not seem like a coincidence that Venky's said that is what they would continue to do?

They would've been told if they put in a little more then they could run the club quite comfortably, but as we know, the Trust had to budget for over-achievement to make that business model a success, and clubs are now getting financially stronger than us.

[Baz]

I honestly dont think there was any malicious intent in Venkys motives in buying Rovers. Massive naivety definitely. There are 100's of better ways of spending your money than trying to asset strip Rovers.

Its pretty obvious they were sold the dream by JA / Kentaro, and that many of their major mistakes were agreed before they took charge.

What they dont seem to have done is learn anything from the mistakes they have made, and have treated the clubs major asset, the fans, as unintelligent and dismissively.

I've posted on the podcast thread that securing borrowing against future tv revenues, whilst may be entirely innocent, could also have seen them take their initial investment into Rovers out of the club, leveraging those costs onto the club itself.

Personally, I can only hope that one of the potential interested parties, has the correct intentions, ideas, connections and money to invest into Rovers.

[bob fleming]

Why were we bought?

How much debt are Bolton Wanderers in? Approx £90m? How much were we in when Venkys bought us so cheaply? Not that amount anyway.

Sell Phil Jones, sell Kalinic, that's the £23m back you paid for the club sorted. Take out a mortgage or two against the future assets of the entire club and estate (Brockhall anyone?). Of course you'll lose a lot of money when paying ridiculous amounts of money in Agents fees, money you'll never ever see again, of course. But that could well be offset with all the free publicity, and there's no such thing as bad publicity is there? Like 1% of the Indian population have even heard of Blackburn Rovers, let along give a damn.

Meanwhile buy a few players on the cheap, maybe get lucky and sell them on for a big profit. Make sure they're flair players though, they're more likely to fetch the most. The more the merrier. But buy these players, gives the impression you care. Also increases the likelihood of getting to the next transfer window while they "bed in". More pesky Agents fees no doubt though. Damn!

They sure as hell haven't bought us to get into the Champions League. However a trip to India to play a pub team was just magical. Fantastic PR. Shame we're still bottom 3 in the league, won one game all season and are many people's favourites for something called "relegation". Still not to worry. The manager is "brilliant", although they never win I'm not too concerned.

Sorry I've no answer to the question.

Fair enough - but why buy him at all? If their intention is to take money out of the club why not take the 6m we paid for Dann as well? Signing him means there is 6m less in the pot to loot.

It all doesn't make any sense.

That money is on the "never never" Philipl stated. It will take years for us to have to pay the full amount, England appearances etc.

[glen9mullan]

Owning players is far more profitable than representing them...... Just saying

[Majiball]

Why were we bought?

How much debt are Bolton Wanderers in? Approx £90m? How much were we in when Venkys bought us so cheaply? Not that amount anyway.

Sell Phil Jones, sell Kalinic, that's the £23m back you paid for the club sorted. Take out a mortgage or two against the future assets of the entire club and estate (Brockhall anyone?). Of course you'll lose a lot of money when paying ridiculous amounts of money in Agents fees, money you'll never ever see again, of course. But that could well be offset with all the free publicity, and there's no such thing as bad publicity is there? Like 1% of the Indian population have even heard of Blackburn Rovers, let along give a damn.

Meanwhile buy a few players on the cheap, maybe get lucky and sell them on for a big profit. Make sure they're flair players though, they're more likely to fetch the most. The more the merrier. But buy these players, gives the impression you care. Also increases the likelihood of getting to the next transfer window while they "bed in". More pesky Agents fees no doubt though. Damn!

They sure as hell haven't bought us to get into the Champions League. However a trip to India to play a pub team was just magical. Fantastic PR. Shame we're still bottom 3 in the league, won one game all season and are many people's favourites for something called "relegation". Still not to worry. The manager is "brilliant", although they never win I'm not too concerned.

Sorry I've no answer to the question.

That all makes too much sense, are you on the inside?

[bob fleming]

That all makes too much sense, are you on the inside?

Nope but some people associated with BRFC deserve to be.

[Kelbo]

Owning players is far more profitable than representing them...... Just saying

Yes, I have heard that too Glen

That all makes too much sense, are you on the inside?

Nope Venkys are, inside of a bloody asylum!!

But hang on, maybe not, maybe they are sat with the slimy man who is like family, seeing their plan come together!!

[Steve Moss]

Fair enough - but why buy him at all? If their intention is to take money out of the club why not take the 6m we paid for Dann as well? Signing him means there is 6m less in the pot to loot.

It all doesn't make any sense.

By my flawed memory, according to Nicko, Dann was a "never never" deal. Very little up front. Lots of incentives, bonuses, etc built in. We payout a potential record signing IF the contingencies are met but not otherwise.

[Majiball]

Nope but some people associated with BRFC deserve to be.

Yes, I have heard that too Glen

Nope Venkys are, inside of a bloody asylum!!

But hang on, maybe not, maybe they are sat with the slimy man who is like family, seeing their plan come together!!

Padded walls and straight jackets imply too much safety for them for my liking.

But slimy man has his family in Rovers does he not?

[patrickvalery]

This gaggle of Venky's just confuse me at every opportunity. I cannot find a common theme or trait which gives any insight to their next move. The team sits comfortably mid table = sack the manager. The team sits so lowly it can smell its own arse = offer the boss a new deal. It frazzles my mind!

Throughout the whole Kean debacle i have tried to remain neutral in terms of the mud which has been flung his way. Until such a time that i can see unwavering evidence of foul play i have to adopt the 'innocent until proven guilty' approach. No matter how much it goes against my instinct. For his appointment i blame the fuzzy logic of Venky's - the new, fresh faced kids on the block. Duped by the wicked and immoral Jerome Anderson. However, I cannot believe anyone would be so careless with their investment. It's tantamount to giving my four year old son my monthly wages to spend at Tesco. In the short term i'd end up mopping up piles of Mint Aero vommit. The whole process was destined to get messy. Just with Kean.

However, my saving grace time and time again is the perceived charitable nature of these people. It would seem they have gone to, and continue to go to, great lengths to provide the common man in India with a place of worship, medicine, shelter and hope. This always leads me to ask myself are these people cold blooded business opportunists who spied a chance to take us to the cleaners? Sell our land and flee? I think probably not.

So in light of this image i have conjurred up of the charitable and caring owners, i beg this much of you. Please listen to us as fans. Please learn to listen to voices which carry the weight of all true fans. The likes of Doowe who posted the "heres my two pennies" thread. Genuine fans who care about the tradition and values of Rovers will advise you that we don't expect David Beckham to grace the hallowed turf of Ewood Park. We don't crave the high life that can be bought as a folly by the Sheikh Mansour's of this world. All we want is owners who will protect our clubs future. One which can buy into the emotional rollercoaster of being a fan. An owner who we believe does as we do. Every time we lose on a Saturday i have to take myself off for 30 minutes to mope, shout, grind my teeth or stamp my feet and get it out of my system. So as not to ruin another weekend for my wife and kids. I want to believe my clubs owners hurt like i do.

[Majiball]

Patrick I'm convinced they make all their decisions by rolling a die.

[patrickvalery]

Patrick I'm convinced they make all their decisions by rolling a die.

Maybe. So far they've done a sterling job playing craps.