[Archived] The Pune9 Strikes Back

[sentient]

First of all I want to say lets put the Pune trip down to experience - its been and gone. But I was thinking tonight ... what if the Pune9 were now of the opinion that their visit, in good faith, had been abused by Venkys? Maybe now they would think about taking some action that could go some way towards restoring the PR-balance?

A simple thing would be to release a press-statement explaining how they felt about the trip and the situation at the club. I'm sure they could think of other alternative actions that would promote the best-interests of BRFC. This is possible the most critical period that the club has ever experienced. It is being destroyed from within and unless the fans strike back with every means at their disposal we are going to oblivion.

Opportunities have been spurned in the past but surely there is an opportunity now to make a bold statement on behalf of the supporters? This is OUR club OUR heritage OUR love!

We need some leaders for the cause! Glenn has done a sterling job but we need more people with the same passion.

Supporters within the Fans Forum could now make a big contribution - you need to step up to the challenge!

[47er]

First of all I want to say lets put the Pune trip down to experience - its been and gone. But I was thinking tonight ... what if the Pune9 were now of the opinion that their visit, in good faith, had been abused by Venkys? Maybe now they would think about taking some action that could go some way towards restoring the PR-balance?

A simple thing would be to release a press-statement explaining how they felt about the trip and the situation at the club. I'm sure they could think of other alternative actions that would promote the best-interests of BRFC. This is possible the most critical period that the club has ever experienced. It is being destroyed from within and unless the fans strike back with every means at their disposal we are going to oblivion.

Opportunities have been spurned in the past but surely there is an opportunity now to make a bold statement on behalf of the supporters? This is OUR club OUR heritage OUR love!

We need some leaders for the cause! Glenn has done a sterling job but we need more people with the same passion.

Supporters within the Fans Forum could now make a big contribution - you need to step up to the challenge!

Ewood Spark? Give us a break! The only passion he's shown is when he's slagging off his own supporters.

[Tom]

I don't think it was abused as such by Venkys personally, the outcome hasn't been what we hoped for but we never went out there on a 'sack steve Kean' mission (the trip was set up before it came to a head), we went out there to try and open dialogue channels and put the concerns of the fans (Steve Kean being a major one) over at the same time.

Now nothing seems to have changed yet and things are indeed looking dire but there wont be a statement from the 9 of us I would imagine as the trip to India is now irelevent as you say.

Also a statement would be hard to agree as all 9 of us i bet as we are all individuals with our own thoughts on the matter.

I still haven't heard a valid reason as to why some people. you included though we should turn down the trip that would have benefited the fans. we had to try and get the message across and I left in no doubt that we did that as well as anyone could as a group to an extent. Things since our return have dampened any new found hope I may have had but that doesn't mean I necessarily think we were used or lied to as such, more so there is someone else in the camp who may be the problem.

Incidentally are you the same chap that said on vital blackburn that the Pune 9 and BRCFS should be boycotted and cut out and boys were sent to do men's work? Apologies if I am mistaken.

[Stuart]

Not withstanding Tom's points above, and his continued patience in response to questions and criticism, there are at least 2 problems with the approach Sentient suggests:

1) The term "Pune9" does not exist outside the confines of BRFCS so it's not as though the media have an entity they can refer to, so I don't expect it would make good copy. Also there is no combined voice from the 9 - even in current channels, such as here, so there is not likely to be a joint statement anywhere. Much like the fanbase in regard to Kean, I also imagine there are a lot of different feelings and opinions about the trip and aftermath.

2) The people that went to Pune are not independent and are, first and foremost, fans forum members, which means they would effectively be resigning by making such a stand against Venkys. Any stance would need to be taken 'in house' to avoid making the fan forum untenable and an organisation. The club don't have to accommodate such fans discussions. This would b a backward step in my view.

[Andy]

Point 2 is exactly why the selection of fans shouldn't have been exclusive to the club's official fans' forum.

[Ste B]

Point 2 is exactly why the selection of fans shouldn't have been exclusive to the club's official fans' forum.

Its going over the same ground again. There was no right or wrong way to do it. Whichever approach came up people would find holes in it. I believe this came up during a conversation between a club official and Balaji, and it was Balaji who made the invite.

Theres no doubt that some of our initial optimism on returning has dimmed, however we can all say we did what we set out to do. We are still the only group that is speaking to the club on a regular basis, the trip helped build up that kind of relationship. Walking away and releasing a press statement that will go nowhere will in my opinion be a backward step.

[Stuart]

But Ste I didn't see this thread as going over the rights and wrongs but about whether the so-called Pune9 feel the should act in response to events since returning.

I'm not convinced they would have an impact buys its certainly open to debate.

[True Blue & White]

Do we have to call them the 'Pune 9', it makes them sound like a group of people convicted of something they didn't do.

[LeChuck]

Do we have to call them the 'Pune 9', it makes them sound like a group of people convicted of something they didn't do.

I don't think they mind

[Tom]

Yeah the term was thrown at us so we just decided to roll with it rather than let it sound an insult or anything

[BPF]

Do we have to call them the 'Pune 9', it makes them sound like a group of people convicted of something they didn't do.

It always reminds me of 'Lost'.

[thenodrog]

Do we have to call them the 'Pune 9', it makes them sound like a group of people convicted of something they didn't do.

'Puney 9' being more appropriate given the amount of notice the Venkeymob appear to have taken of them. I do stand to be corrected and will retract all I have said should they celebrate their 12 months in charge by sacking Kean and setting a hit man on Anderson on the 19th.

[thenodrog]

I still haven't heard a valid reason as to why some people. you included though we should turn down the trip that would have benefited the fans. we had to try and get the message across and I left in no doubt that we did that as well as anyone could as a group to an extent. Things since our return have dampened any new found hope I may have had but that doesn't mean I necessarily think we were used or lied to as such, more so there is someone else in the camp who may be the problem.

Bloody obvious Tom. I've given you a reason a few times. As soon as you got the chance of an all expenses paid 5* jolly you instantly gave away the high ground. You should have insisted that they come to you. Negotiation skills are very important and appear to be missing from the school curriculum these days .... Old Neville Chamberlain missed the same lesson as you nine and went running off cap in hand to Mr Hitler as soon as he crooked his finger at him..... fat lot of good that did too.

[Tom]

Any meeting anywhere in the world wouldn't be a negotiation though just a chance to put our thoughts accross.

So I am still to hear a valid reason as to what would have been achieved by turning it down

[glen9mullan]

Come on guys lay off the folk who went to Pune, They are more than open to chat to on a one to one away from forums as a couple did Tris and Tom at the supporters meeting.

Txt is always misunderstood or open to interpretation, They are just supporters like us and share the same concerns, they go their points across when they went and was given some answers to their questions.

Its up to Balaji and the rest of the crew now to come good on the words they spoke to the Pune gang.

I think 90% Of the people who went to Pune have conducted themselves superbly despite a lot of flack chucked at them, before, during and since they have returned.

I too got angry with some of the comments which were hitting the press over here whilst they was there. However having spoke to the couple of them in person and listened to what they had to say, I think they did a superb job of getting across as much as they possibly could, in fact even more than most of us would of expected due to the group being an endorsed body within Rovers..

I'm sure if people meet with any at a game they will be happy to discuss the trip with you, but after the press nailed them whilst they was there, i'm not surprised they are cautious in forums ect

[Tom]

Cheers Glen, you saw first hand how wary we were of reporters at the supporters meeting but as you say happy to talk to anyone about it more off the record.

The aim was for it to be the start of a communication channel with them but with things happening since there are far more pressing matters that the fans want sorting.

[Rovers_786]

Come on guys lay off the folk who went to Pune, They are more than open to chat to on a one to one away from forums as a couple did Tris and Tom at the supporters meeting.

Txt is always misunderstood or open to interpretation, They are just supporters like us and share the same concerns, they go their points across when they went and was given some answers to their questions.

Its up to Balaji and the rest of the crew now to come good on the words they spoke to the Pune gang.

I think 90% Of the people who went to Pune have conducted them superbly despite a lot of flack chucked at them, before, during and since they have returned.

I too got angry with some of the comments which were hitting the press over here whilst they was there. However having spoke to the couple of them in person and listened to what they had to say, I think they did a superb job of getting across as much as they possibly could, in fact even more than most of us would of expected due to the group being an endorsed body within Rovers..

I'm sure if people meet with any at a game they will be happy to discuss the trip with you, but after the press nailed them whilst they was there, i'm not surprised they are cautious in forums ect

Spot on there,I cant fault you there,I just hope the Venky can end this pain and come good.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I don't think it was abused as such by Venkys personally, the outcome hasn't been what we hoped for but we never went out there on a 'sack steve Kean' mission (the trip was set up before it came to a head), we went out there to try and open dialogue channels and put the concerns of the fans (Steve Kean being a major one) over at the same time.

Now nothing seems to have changed yet and things are indeed looking dire but there wont be a statement from the 9 of us I would imagine as the trip to India is now irelevent as you say.

Also a statement would be hard to agree as all 9 of us i bet as we are all individuals with our own thoughts on the matter.

I still haven't heard a valid reason as to why some people. you included though we should turn down the trip that would have benefited the fans. we had to try and get the message across and I left in no doubt that we did that as well as anyone could as a group to an extent. Things since our return have dampened any new found hope I may have had but that doesn't mean I necessarily think we were used or lied to as such, more so there is someone else in the camp who may be the problem.

Incidentally are you the same chap that said on vital blackburn that the Pune 9 and BRCFS should be boycotted and cut out and boys were sent to do men's work? Apologies if I am mistaken.

Tell me one benefit the the fans have enjoyed. The word "Quisling" springs to my mind, look it up.

[jim mk2]

I might be wrong but wasn't there supposed to be an official report of the Pune9 trip ?

[sentient]

Tom, I started this thread with "let's not go over old ground - water under the bridge". But you immediately dragged it back to your standard we did what we could - we couldn't go shouting and screaming for kean's head - we wanted to open communication etc. So my criticism now is in direct response to your "mood management".

The original complaint from me and many others was that you shouldn't have gone because it was obviously just a venky-pr exercise and instead the FF should have politely declined and issued a joint press statement explaining the reasons (dissatisfaction with events, kean's poor record, etc) PLUS issue an invite for the owners to meet the fans in Blackburn, Lancashire, England. There was no suggestion of screaming from anyone! The Pune9 declined to take this opportunity amidst much discussion and the rest is history.

I have to admit that you have done a good job defending the Pune9 with your re-writing of events and strawman obfuscation but the posts of SteB and yourself show that you are still in a defensive criticism-management-and-denial mode. Please now forget this and move on to the future. I will not mention it again if you don't

What is important now is the future and what supporters can do to positively influence that future. My thought here is that the FF may now view the situation differently to how they did a few weeks ago. That new view may also have come to the conclusion that the FF is a lame-duck because it obviously has zero influence on (important) decisions made by the club and owners. (Any credit to the FF for taking back ewood, ticket prices, etc. happened under the previous regime). As such the FF may like to take the opportunity to resign en masse and issue a collective press statement explaining their decision - lack of influence on decisions made within the club, unhappiness with club and team management style ethics and results; concern about the rumours regarding club ownership issues and exhorbitant payments to football agents and advisors; feelings of being used/misled during FF visit to India.

Of course not all FF members may feel this way in which case they should stay in the FF. However, I think it is coming to crunch time and people need to start nailing their colours to the mast! We need leaders and we need our supposed representative to stand-up to the mark or step aside and let others take up the mantle.

Tom, which mast are your colours nailed to?

PS. By the way I have never even been on vitalfootball (apologies to those that run that forum). Unlike the venky-email-protesters, me and vitalanonymous man are not the same person running a hate campaign against the Pune9. Apology accepted.

[Tom]

Well then I must apologise again if the tone of my reply was off, I admit to jumping I defence mode as you have a strikingly similar username to someone who was vehemently against us during the trip.

If I thought there was an opportunity for the fans forum to impact on things at that level at this stage I'd love to take it but that would have to be a collective decision and I'm not sure it would have the desired impact.

I congratulate you for coming up with an idea though as new ideas are obviously needed at this stage.

As for what camp I'm in, I am in the camp that recognises change is needed but that it has to be approached in the right way hence why I was at the open meeting to discuss the best way forward with other fans

You will have to forgive the defensive stance it's just a natural reaction after recieving criticism in person and online but that was always part and parcel of it and understand that.

[sentient]

Thanks Tom I appreciate your congratulations for my idea but I thought that's what the FF was for! Obviously you have no intention of doing anything but keep espousing your strawman procrastinating mood-management. Sorry if I sound bitter but I thought that the FF were supporter representatives? For me that means leaders who will make personal sacrifice for the longterm future of the club. All I see is people defending their own personal position. We need people prepared to take action - issue statements, investigate wrongdoing, expose what needs exposing.

Once again, we need leaders and if our current fans representatives can't do that job I respectfully ask that they stand aside and let others with more conviction do the job.

[Glenn]

Once again, we need leaders and if our current fans representatives can't do that job I respectfully ask that they stand aside and let others with more conviction do the job.

Anyone else with more conviction is welcome to step up, but as I've proven time and time again, very very few can ever be bothered.

We needed these leaders when BRISA was around, Duncan needs these leaders for BRST, hell yeah, I agree we could do with these people putting their names forward for the FF too.

The trouble is, these people never step forward. People always decide they have better things to do with their time.

For all I've not been a fan of the protests, I've admired Glen (and latterly Simon) for actually getting off their backsides (or more recently, from behind their keyboards) and actually DOING something themselves, rather than berating others for not doing it well enough.

[sentient]

And whilst we are talking about ideas Tom, here's another for you ...

FF write an open letter to venkys asking them about the £100m mortgage facility. What is it for? Why so much? Can they guarantee that every single penny of that facility will go to BRFC? etc. I'm sure you catch my drift with the type of letter that you could write.

If I was in a position where the media would listen and respond to me (and I think the FF are in that position) then I would be sending that letter tomorrow. Tom, I would like to suggest that you call an extraordinary meeting of FF members and propose this course of action.

(Please don't hide behind any constitution/rules issue because there are only a dozen or so of you and you are not exactly a sovereign state! )

Anyone else with more conviction is welcome to step up, but as I've proven time and time again, very very few can ever be bothered.

Glenn, step down now and I will do it. What do you think?

Announce it now and we can have a meeting tomorrow and decide a new course of action.

I understand that when times are good and easy then people are laid back - after all there is no problem so just enjoy the ride! In those sort of times good administrators are the backbone of continued smooth efficiency. But we are in a time of turmoil and administrators are NOT what we need. We need some leaders to be the backbone of action! We need people to make things happen, not hang about waiting to see what happens. We need people with personal conviction (like GlenM) prepared to say what needs saying (without getting thrown in jail, for their own sake). The FF is now like Dad's Army. FFs do SOMETHING or move out!

[Glenn]

Glenn, step down now and I will do it. What do you think?

Announce it now and we can have a meeting tomorrow and decide a new course of action.

Personally I still feel I can make a difference (and will stay until I feel any different). But come and stand besides me, make a difference together. The waiting list is pretty small and the churn pretty high (I'm sure if it wasn't for Pune, we be in our usual state of having no waiting list).

If you feel you can do better (and that isn't a playground taunt, I genuinely hope you can), than come along and prove it, rather than expecting us to stand aside so you have nothing to be judged against than a set of quitters who walked away when the stakes were upped).