[Archived] The Pune9 Strikes Back

[Stuart]

Personally I still feel I can make a difference (and will stay until I feel any different). But come and stand besides me, make a difference together. The waiting list is pretty small and the churn pretty high (I'm sure if it wasn't for Pune, we be in our usual state of having no waiting list).

If you feel you can do better (and that isn't a playground taunt, I genuinely hope you can), than come along and prove it, rather than expecting us to stand aside so you have nothing to be judged against than a set of quitters who walked away when the stakes were upped).

Glenn, you really need to enable your plus button.

[Glenn]

It's not a choice thing, it's a limitation of the bloody software.

I guess I could step down as admin, that'll fix it

[sentient]

Glenn, please answer me one (well 3) question ...

What do you (and the FF) hope/think you can achieve in the next month/6months/year?

My contention is that you will achieve absolute zilch. But the FF could achieve something significant by taking some sort of action such as the 2 suggestions I have made above.

[AndyNeil]

Sentient...I was one of the fans who went to Pune, and after reading the thread (if you are serious with your comments/suggestions) I'd urge you to put an application in to join the Fans Forum. So step out from behind the computer screen and get your application in - don't forget the agenda setting meeting is 'open house'. I look forward to hopefully meeting you in person at the next 'pre-meet' in January(?).

[Glenn]

Glenn, please answer me one (well 3) question ...

What do you (and the FF) hope/think you can achieve in the next month/6months/year?

My contention is that you will achieve absolute zilch. But the FF could achieve something significant by taking some sort of action such as the 2 suggestions I have made above.

I expect we'll serve the purpose exactly as intended when John Williams set it up. To give the club feedback on behalf of the fans. Now Pune was different as we were able to give the owners feedback too, but essentially it's main purpose has been to offer the club feedback both on things of interest to the club (ticket pricing, kit design, catering options ... basically things where we operate as a focus group) and for things of interest to the fans (anything we want to know about or highlight as a problem). I can't put specifics on it as I don't know which issues will be raised and even if I did, we've never had a 100% success rate (or Gav'd have his shelf back ), so setting milestones without knowing the causes isn't possible. My personal crusade (not an FF one) is to try and improve communications between the club and the fans because since Venky's took over they've been shocking. Also, a year is too short a time span, some of us on the FF were banging on about unreserved seating/singing section/safe standing area for three or fours years before everyone warmed to it.

Now, what if I think you're alluding to (by not allowing is previous victories such as an unreserved seating area) is that you believe that we used to be able to influence things, but we no longer can and for all I know, that may turn out to be true, we've had assurances it won't be, but only time will tell. But frankly, whilst there is a glimmer of hope that my voice may be of some benefit to both the club and the fans, I'll do so.

And for the idea we're in a position to make some kind of statement for the greater good by resigning en-mass. I think all that would achieve is club, owners and media shrugging and going "meh" en-mass, nobody would be shocked into action. Hell, if multiple protests, marches, sit-in, banners, planes and email campaigns make no difference, then I hardly think this will. In fact, all it'll do it cut down one more channel of communication between the fans and the club at the time they both need to be talking much much more to each other.

[Tom]

We could attempt to change the remit of the forum totally but then we will be criticised for not being elected onto the forum or it being fully open with unlimited numbers.

I think what this thread does show is there is a definite need for a BRISA / BRST type association and the type to lead the way would be brilliant people to be a member of that. Hopefully BRST is up and running soon but in the meantime as Glenn said anyone (with a season ticket) can apply to be on the FF and join the waiting list.

[glen9mullan]

I agree with Glenn on this, Communication stinks at present and the only body who has any definate communication at present is the Fans Forum. To break that final chain of communication would be committing suicide at this point.

I don't know all the fan forum members and can only go off what I read, I have never met Glenn at footie although I'm pretty sure we would have been in the same room without chatting, However I have spoke to him many times on the phone in recent weeks.

Although Glenn is against Protest we have mutual respect for each other because we both seek the same things and have a passion to do so. Glenn IMO should be applauded for his dedication to all Rovers fans for trying to make things happen for all of us. I'm thrilled he is on the fans forum, and sincerly hope he is part of any action group which me be formed later down the line. Glenn puts his feet where his mouth is and I admire him for this, being pro-active and working on his own inititive is a trait which makes him stand out from the crowd.

On Tom M , I have also met Tom and found him very level headed in his post and also in person, he is not a conquest individual but certainly wears his heart on his sleeve and my first impressions of him, is he wont follow the crowd but makes his own destiny. He is a great asset to any fans panel, and is one of the good guys.

Of the other fans forum members, i know very little about them, one or two have been outspoken and some have even abused me via twitter, I think its this attitude which sadly gets the good guys being sweeped with the same brush.

That being said, Forums, commitee's groups, websites or anything which takes people's personal time takes alot of dedication and with it comes lots of sacrifices.

I see passion in so many people and I also see people that can make a big difference, The fan base is not what is broken, its everything after that from Club to owners.

Only the club and owners have the power to open up these communication chains, and their reluctance to do so, is just pushing the supporters away. The sooner the club realises that these problems are not going to go away and they are going to escalate the better it will be for all.

When we had the supporters meeting the other week, we put across many concerns and question that don't want brushing under the carpet, but want answering. It was the decision of those who chaired the meeting that these issue's had to be put to the board of Blackburn Rovers due to the severity of them. Now to date, the second meeting which was promised has not been penciled in, and there lies the problem. Unless supporters get the truth, then fears will not be put to rest.

From a personal point of view and I think I'm safe talking for Simon, Many people have put their faith in us and have trusted us to conduct the Protest groups voice the correct way. We have followed the rules and kept our nerve, more and more people are joining the protest groups and its their voice which we intend to get heard. No-one said this was going to be easy, and I completely understand lots of people don't like protest, but as organisers of the group we will continue to act as instructed by the group for as long as it takes to get the answers we seek. Some may say its having no impact, some may say give up, but impact or no impact, give up or no give up. We will 100% continue until the club finally comes to the table and starts communicating the truth. Club and owners are at fault, NOT the supporters.

On another note which I think is mighty relevant, When we held the supporters meeting with the club this was MINUTED, to date these minutes have not been made public by the club and I think supporters deserve to at least know what was discussed. I don't know how long it takes them to put minutes up, but seeing the Fans Forum Minutes are already up, I can't for the life of me understand why the minutes from that meeting have not been made public especially as they addressed more pressing issues.

[thenodrog]

We could attempt to change the remit of the forum totally but then we will be criticised for not being elected onto the forum or it being fully open with unlimited numbers.

I think what this thread does show is there is a definite need for a BRISA / BRST type association and the type to lead the way would be brilliant people to be a member of that. Hopefully BRST is up and running soon but in the meantime as Glenn said anyone (with a season ticket) can apply to be on the FF and join the waiting list.

Personally I'm not a committee type of bloke but seemingly that's me Glen Mullen, Preston Blue, SAS and a few thousand other lifelong rovers ruled out in a stroke. We aren't proper supporters it seems.

[Tom]

Personally I'm not a committee type of bloke but seemingly that's me Glen Mullen, Preston Blue, SAS and a few thousand other lifelong rovers ruled out in a stroke. We aren't proper supporters it seems.

Personally I agree with you in that the season ticket holders only clause should be removed, I didn't think it existed until recently to be honest.

[roversmum]

So, what's wrong with writing an application and putting a case forward for inclusion if you are not a season ticket holder but still a supporter of the club?

BUT I'm going to rock the boat. Why should those who have handed their season tickets be able apply, you can't say you are a supporter if you have deliberately decided not to support the club in that way and expect still to be considered unless you have a jolly good excuse (family illness, etc). Whatever happened to grit and determination? Rovers Till I Die, etc, etc.

"Dear Fans Forum

I would like to be considered as a member of the Fans Forum. I have been a supporter and season ticket holder for xx years but have handed my season ticket back/have joined the golf club and only come when I can scrounge a free ticket from someone else* because I don't like the owners or Mr Kean.

However I am a true Rovers fan and have only the interests of the club at heart.

Yours sincerely

etc"

*delete as applicable

I don't somehow think that will do it.

This is Blackburn Rovers Football Club. 136 years old and counting. Our Club. Our heritage. Write letters, do whatever you think you need to do. But at the end of the day get down to the ground and support our players if you possibly can.

COYB

[ABBEY]

mum may i ask you yet again ,how have the club and team improved since the venkys took over?

So, what's wrong with writing an application and putting a case forward for inclusion if you are not a season ticket holder but still a supporter of the club?

BUT I'm going to rock the boat. Why should those who have handed their season tickets be able apply, you can't say you are a supporter if you have deliberately decided not to support the club in that way and expect still to be considered unless you have a jolly good excuse (family illness, etc). Whatever happened to grit and determination? Rovers Till I Die, etc, etc.

"Dear Fans Forum

I would like to be considered as a member of the Fans Forum. I have been a supporter and season ticket holder for xx years but have handed my season ticket back/have joined the golf club and only come when I can scrounge a free ticket from someone else* because I don't like the owners or Mr Kean.

However I am a true Rovers fan and have only the interests of the club at heart.

Yours sincerely

etc"

*delete as applicable

I don't somehow think that will do it.

This is Blackburn Rovers Football Club. 136 years old and counting. Our Club. Our heritage. Write letters, do whatever you think you need to do. But at the end of the day get down to the ground and support our players if you possibly can.

COYB

did you write the same one to swindon when you stopped supporting them?

im only kidding mum.

[roversmum]

did you write the same one to swindon when you stopped supporting them?

im only kidding mum.

Abbey, I've told you about that, kidding or not. That is unfair. I have never held a season ticket for Swindon Town, they happened to be the club in the town where I was brought up, and it's more than 40 years since I went there. I enjoy football, I'll stop to watch a game in the park if there's one going on when I go by, there's always football on the tv in our house, but Rovers is special and always will be. I've never said "Swindon Till I Die" but I have said "Rovers Till I Die" and if I did get the chance to move back to Swindon I'd probably not go because of my love for Rovers.

[Ste B]

On another note which I think is mighty relevant, When we held the supporters meeting with the club this was MINUTED, to date these minutes have not been made public by the club and I think supporters deserve to at least know what was discussed. I don't know how long it takes them to put minutes up, but seeing the Fans Forum Minutes are already up, I can't for the life of me understand why the minutes from that meeting have not been made public especially as they addressed more pressing issues.

The minutes are taken by the fans forum secretary - hence they can be prepared pretty quickly.

[ABBEY]

Abbey, I've told you about that, kidding or not. That is unfair. I have never held a season ticket for Swindon Town, they happened to be the club in the town where I was brought up, and it's more than 40 years since I went there. I enjoy football, I'll stop to watch a game in the park if there's one going on when I go by, there's always football on the tv in our house, but Rovers is special and always will be. I've never said "Swindon Till I Die" but I have said "Rovers Till I Die" and if I did get the chance to move back to Swindon I'd probably not go because of my love for Rovers.

[Doug]

Abbey, I've told you about that, kidding or not. That is unfair. I have never held a season ticket for Swindon Town, they happened to be the club in the town where I was brought up, and it's more than 40 years since I went there. I enjoy football, I'll stop to watch a game in the park if there's one going on when I go by, there's always football on the tv in our house, but Rovers is special and always will be. I've never said "Swindon Till I Die" but I have said "Rovers Till I Die" and if I did get the chance to move back to Swindon I'd probably not go because of my love for Rovers.

Why do you respond to posters like this? It's pretty obvious why certain posters wouldn't ever be on a FF!

[Ste B]

I might be wrong but wasn't there supposed to be an official report of the Pune9 trip ?

I don't believe that there was, but I know a few have asked for it. I'm pretty sure there wont be one now, its up to the Pune9 to report on it how they saw it. Anything official could just be dismissed as club pr anyway.

[thenodrog]

So, what's wrong with writing an application and putting a case forward for inclusion if you are not a season ticket holder but still a supporter of the club?

BUT I'm going to rock the boat. Why should those who have handed their season tickets be able apply, you can't say you are a supporter if you have deliberately decided not to support the club in that way and expect still to be considered unless you have a jolly good excuse (family illness, etc). Whatever happened to grit and determination? Rovers Till I Die, etc, etc.

"Dear Fans Forum

I would like to be considered as a member of the Fans Forum. I have been a supporter and season ticket holder for xx years but have handed my season ticket back/have joined the golf club and only come when I can scrounge a free ticket from someone else* because I don't like the owners or Mr Kean.

However I am a true Rovers fan and have only the interests of the club at heart.

Yours sincerely

etc"

*delete as applicable

I don't somehow think that will do it.

This is Blackburn Rovers Football Club. 136 years old and counting. Our Club. Our heritage. Write letters, do whatever you think you need to do. But at the end of the day get down to the ground and support our players if you possibly can.

COYB

Ok so if refusing to pay money over to a bunch of spivs who imo are only heading up the club for what they can get out rather than what they can put in as opposed to actually going to the matches as a supporter is the yardstick that you use then I don't qualify as a supporter any more. Fair enough. But I feel far more damning still is that I am most certainly not a base camp follower, as your involvement opens you up to accusations of, and I never ever will be either! So even I wanted I guess I've no chance of selection to what is essentially a private members club.

BUT

To date Roversmum I've only not had a ticket for the City match when I was in Italy but EVERY ticket has been paid for and if not by me by someone else. Please note that if it's all about money as you suggest then the corporate invitations which I have enjoyed make your ST contribution look a bit of a pittance anyway. Following your line of thought that financial support is the sign of a true supporter then surely membership of the FF should be selected from the corporate customers only? What do you think?

[roversmum]

I think, if you are financially/physically/logistically able you should be down at Ewood on match day supporting the players as they play for Blackburn Rovers Football Club. That is all.

[Miker]

What are you really trying achieve by staying away from Ewood? Hurt the club financially? Help make the stadium look emptier?

If you're of the opinion that the owners are trying to asset strip the club then how is any of that going to help? Even if half of the normal attendance stopped coming for a season, the amount of money the club would lose is so minimal (about 3 million). That's not even 10% of our wage bill. What would it matter anyway? Club would still be destroyed, and they still would've made the money they needed to.

If you're of the opinion that the owners are incompetent and stubborn then how is any of that going to help? Hurting the club financially won't make it easier for the owners to right their mistakes, it will make it harder, in the end only the club suffers. Empty seats will only be seen and felt by the players. I'm sure they will feel inspired to try and win matches for a half-empty crowd who seemingly doesn't care. The public won't say "look at what Venky's caused... the seats are empty!" They'll say, "what a pathetic club, they barely have a fanbase".

If you're a supporter, SUPPORT the club. All these actions are doing is the OPPOSITE. Forget everything that goes on behind the scenes for a second. Yes we are in the relegation zone, but do we not have a great team of players that we can really be proud of? Robinson, Samba, Givet, Olsson, Lowe, N'zonzi, Pedersen, Rochina, Formica, Hoilett. I'm really proud to be a supporter of a team with these players. Do we not have the cheapest tickets of any team in the league? Do we not have one of the best and most historic grounds in England? Are these not good enough reasons to continue supporting the club on match days?

I find it bizarre when people say things like "Venky's have ripped the heart and soul out of this club". What have they exactly changed at the club to have caused this? Rename The Blackburn End stand to The Ronnie Clayton stand? Keep a manager you don't like in charge? Ignore all the stories about what goes on behind the scenes, just focus on what's different on a match day and tell me, I really want to know.

[AllRoverAsia]

Ok so if refusing to pay money over to a bunch of spivs who imo are only heading up the club for what they can get out rather than what they can put in as opposed to actually going to the matches as a supporter is the yardstick that you use then I don't qualify as a supporter any more. Fair enough. But I feel far more damning still is that I am most certainly not a base camp follower, as your involvement opens you up to accusations of, and I never ever will be either! So even I wanted I guess I've no chance of selection to what is essentially a private members club.

BUT

To date Roversmum I've only not had a ticket for the City match when I was in Italy but EVERY ticket has been paid for and if not by me by someone else. Please note that if it's all about money as you suggest then the corporate invitations which I have enjoyed make your ST contribution look a bit of a pittance anyway. Following your line of thought that financial support is the sign of a true supporter then surely membership of the FF should be selected from the corporate customers only? What do you think?

Apologies for joining what is obviously a 'family' type squabble but are you saying that you go to a game if its free?

[Waggy76]

I think , if Venkys sacked Kean today , their credibility as owners would soar enormously ...They appointed him , and now they have to sack him ASAP..

[roversmum]

Well I suppose in a way, drog, I don't really care if you've paid for your ticket or not. I'd still rather have you there on matchday supporting the club you purport to love rather than elsewhere.

I DO understand everyone's frustration, I feel the same myself, but boycotting the club is not, in my humble opinion, the answer. If the scenario is, that the ground is as full and noisy as it can be, and we are still not winning matches, then we cannot say we have not taken our part. However surely in that scenario someone, somewhere, might say to themselves, "hey, hold on a minute, surely the supporters deserve better?" and do something about it.

PLEASE, everyone, don't give up on the club. There's life in the old dog yet.

[Parsonblue]

I think, if you are financially/physically/logistically able you should be down at Ewood on match day supporting the players as they play for Blackburn Rovers Football Club. That is all.

Totally agree mum. So what's Desai's excuse for not getting off her backside to come and support the club she owns?

[Majiball]

Totally agree mum. So what's Desai's excuse for not getting off her backside to come and support the club she owns?

She's there in spirit, chap, she's there in spirit.

[FourLaneBlue]

For all I've not been a fan of the protests, I've admired Glen (and latterly Simon) for actually getting off their backsides (or more recently, from behind their keyboards) and actually DOING something themselves, rather than berating others for not doing it well enough.

Yes, exactly, and mean-spirited, judgmental fans who described them and their protests as being embarrassing should have a good, hard look at themselves. At least they got out there and showed how much Rovers meant to them. It seems that they have had little effect, but at least they should how much Rovers meant to them.