[Archived] time to change attitude

[Gav]

I think the problem is Gav that you seem to have a habit of trying to argue points where the statistics say the exact opposite!

To quote Steve Kean –

We went into Aston Villas box 26 times, and they came into our box 26 times, score 3-1 to Villa

Statistics eh

no, I don't think so Gav. That's what I thought at the time.

Interesting point for discussion though. I'm 62 now, but all throughout my time supporting rovers, apart from the last three/four years I was an absolute fanatic. I never saw rovers play badly, would never ever admit we were rubbish after any game and we were always unlucky if we lost - even when we were towards the bottom of the third division. I admit all that's changed.

Question though, which fan is likely to give the more accurate assessment of their clubs fortunes, on and off the field - the younger one, or the older one? Young and blinded with the club and every player that's ever worn blue and white, or older and maybe wearying with football in general?

There is a noticeable split between the younger fans and the older ones on here. Seems to me that in general, it's the older ones that are far more likely to be critical.

I'd have to agree with you den, the older ones are far more likely to be critical and as you say probably weary of football in general.

[joey_big_nose]

The team is improving Gav, when compared to the utter dross he was serving up earlier in he season, but the fist half agianst Chelsea was poor- from both teams, we made a decent fist of it second half but we still only maanged two shots on target and 40% possession.

Now we are playing teams around us, lets see if we actually 'dominate' games.

This is the crux of it. We need performances like the Norwich one over the next three games - without the 'unlucky' goals against us. Really we need six points from those three games.

If we do that then we will have turned the corner.

I am vaguely optimistic about this as we seem to have kept the performance levels up for four games in a row, and generally look much much better organised. That said Stoke away particularly is no pushover.

[Puffsan]

Even though i don't agree with everything the original poster wrote, i think he has some arguments that are quite interesting to discuss. Maybe we should think more about how the players are affected by what is going on. Personally i respect every mans right to protest the will of free speech, but saying "yes i totally back the players 100% on the pitch, but not kean" and beliving the players are not affected by the protests is a little thin. of course the players know what is going on. The players of blackburn rovers is a performance group, and steve kean whether we like it or not is a part of that performance group. Negativity are influenced by negativity. Maybe thats why hoilett body language has been different the last 2 games. Maybe more players will act that way soon. Are we mocking the football intelligence of experienced players like gamst and dunn who apparantly are supporting kean? They are experienced players who have played football all their life, and dunn is local lad. Clearly he wants what is best for blackburn rovers? The supporters role should be to support the team through thick and thin. Maybe the thin period has lasted to long and we've lost what it means to be a supporter. We must start to think of what is really best for rovers if we still want them in the premier league

As the protests clearly is not working i think its time to have an open discussion of what we really want and what do do to achieve it.

what do we really want? more communication with the club, the club's board and the owners? or simply do we want KEAN OUT?

We've clearly made our opinion clear on how we feel on Steve Kean. If our main goal is to have better communication with the club, maybe we should change strategy. Maybe we should reach out an open arm and say to the club "we call it a truce. we can not control individuals opinions, but we will not organize more protests the following month, but in exchange we want you to have more and better communication with us." maybe its time to show them that we are the better man here. maybe this is all that takes to turn our ship on right course. We are more positive, the club will hopefully get more points and we will hopefully have better communication with the club/owners.

If KEAN OUT is still our main goal we should change strategy. We have to think about what happens when managers get sacked. Either the owners/board lose faith in him, or the players lose faith in him. In the case of Steve Kean both the owners and the players seems to have full confidence in him. We have tried to influence the board/owners to have him sacked, and it has clearly not worked. Maybe its time to influence the players. Maybe we should start booing and protesting against the players (i cant believe im actually suggesting this). if they are more negative they will lose faith in him.

I know both my suggestions are very controversial and i hope other people have better ideas. I just wrote them down to give you some examples of what we can do.

Its time to make a choice: being positive or being negative. After that decision is made it is time to chose a new strategy.

[Andy]

Also, I read a stat before the Chelsea game saying we had the worst pass completition rate in the league bar Stoke.

Don't fall for Kean spin.

Yes, a million +1's!

The attractiveness of our play is very marginally better than under Sam, just a lot less effective.

Yet, if you listen to Kean, we're playing like the Brazil side from the 90's.

[den]

This is the crux of it. We need performances like the Norwich one over the next three games - without the 'unlucky' goals against us. Really we need six points from those three games.

If we do that then we will have turned the corner.

How do you know that? 38 games in a season.

[LeChuck]

How do you know that? 38 games in a season.

I can't remember who posted it now, but someone asked the question "what if this is Kean's purple patch?".

It's a really good question. The form of most teams seems to operate in waves, if this is us in good form and we still can't put points on the board then we done for.

[FourLaneBlue]

TBH Gav, I thought the first half was turgid [there's another word for you]. Absolutely nothing of note happened. Second half Chelsea scored early and then we were chasing the game. We did OK at that point. Played some decent stuff, but at no time in the match did we ever look like we were going to win the game - against what many people thought was a poor Chelsea side.

Pretty much sums it up. Chelsea were professional and below par, yet still beat us at home without getting out of 1st gear.

6 points in 11 games and five games from safety. No need for balance when there are those types of stats around.

Its interesting to note that almost every person I’ve spoken to over the past few weeks, mostly non Rovers fans might I add, all are of the option we’re playing well, and the manager should be given more time. Most pundits and media outlets are also of the same opinion.

Well, they are idiots then, as we have six points from eleven games and less than a 20% win percentage during his time here.

[joey_big_nose]

How do you know that? 38 games in a season.

It's a figure of speech, but two wins in three would take the win percentage up and get us moving towards the 40 points. Everyone, even you grumpy old Den, would be a shade more optimistic then.

It's all about turning decent performances into significant results.

[Kendalrover]

Although I am firmly in the Kean out camp I have to admit that we appear to be playing better since Clements arrived. However the worrying thing is that in any season you have good spells and bad spells and if we are going through a good spell and not picking up points then that is not a good omen for when we hit a bad patch.

Wigan is an absolutely massive game the pressure on the players will be significant as it coincides with Venkys anniversary of their takeover. Whether or not they will be able to maintain the recent level of performance remains to be seen.

I discovered an interesting statistic the other day. In Kean's 32 games in charge we have only out scored our opponents in the second half in 4 of those games (WBA twice (1-1 and 1-0 at half time) and Blackpool (0-2 at half time) last season and Arsenal (1-1 at half time) this season).

This could be as a result of several factors, lack of mental strength, lack of fitness, lack of tactical ability (e.g. no plan B, being out thought by the opposing manager) all of which I believe is the responsibility of the manager and players not the fans as suggested by the first poster.

In simple terms what it means is that if we are losing at half time we will almost certainly lose the game.

[matty1875]

I think Puffsan does make some excellent points and also some points in the original post that are not great. The overall point he is trying to make though is there is far to much negativity around the place. Yes we all want Kean out, however the owners do not want to sack him. They will choose when they want to, they paid for the club, they can pretty much do want they want. It is sad state of affairs that this is the case but it is the fact of the matter. However people who feel that they can influence them in a big way, then you are more deluded then the people who think Kean is a good manager. Yes you have had a little impact but at the end of the day they will do want they want.

I for one have full respect for people who protested but it is time to stop. You have made your point for the 99% of supporters, we want Kean out, they know that. Now is the time to stop this blame culture, i.e people who say that the Pune9 have not represented the fans etc, they did their best and they will continue to do their best for the club. It is time for people to stop having a go at the protesters, they are attempted to make a difference and that can only be applauded for their efforts.

However too many people just want to be negative at the moment and I don't think it is helping the team at all. They are young team which needs to be confident to perform at their best, they need our support. Therefore why not decide now to stop the protests for the and organise march's that support the team. How much better would it be if 100's of people marched from the Brown Cow or Uncle Jacks dressed in blue and white, singing songs about the team and showing our support for the team?? They would send a big message to the players that we love Rovers and forever will support the team and then this would be transferred into the ground and can surely help raise the atmosphere in Ewood to help get us get points on the board. We are in desperate times, we need the points so now is the time that we as stepped up and showed publically that we are behind the team. I for one would join in that kind of March for sure!! Naturally if results keep going the way they are then people will voice there frustrations in the ground, i.e. when Ince was sacked, let the anti protests be natural. Planned protests are now really not helping our image, at the start they got the message out but it could be said they are creating a terrible atmosphere in the ground. It is time to change and channel the same passion into really getting behind the team.

[joey_big_nose]

I can't remember who posted it now, but someone asked the question "what if this is Kean's purple patch?".

It's a really good question. The form of most teams seems to operate in waves, if this is us in good form and we still can't put points on the board then we done for.

This does worry me, a lot.

[FourLaneBlue]

It's a figure of speech, but two wins in three would take the win percentage up and get us moving towards the 40 points. Everyone, even you grumpy old Den, would be a shade more optimistic then.

It's all about turning decent performances into significant results.

So, that would be 12 points from 14 games. Yeah, we would be motoring up the league then.

Kean´s record is so bad that even if we win the next three games on the trot we will still be in the brown stuff.

[Mattyblue]

To be honest gav I don't particulary give two hoots what other clubs fans think, like much of the media they ate ignorant of the whole story.

[Gav]

I can't remember who posted it now, but someone asked the question "what if this is Kean's purple patch?".

It's a really good question. The form of most teams seems to operate in waves, if this is us in good form and we still can't put points on the board then we done for.

That is a good question LeChuck, I dread to think

[den]

It's a figure of speech, but two wins in three would take the win percentage up and get us moving towards the 40 points. Everyone, even you grumpy old Den, would be a shade more optimistic then.

It will take a whole lot more than two wins to make me change my mind on a manager who's record is woeful, lies through his back teeth and intentionally turns the fans against each other, JBN.

Maybe some fans will put up with him being an a..., but I can honestly say I wont ever like him.

[m0r94n]

Although I am firmly in the Kean out camp I have to admit that we appear to be playing better since Clements arrived.

As I've said in other threads, why are we suddenly "doing better" with Clement as assistant?

[Paul]

I think the problem is Gav that you seem to have a habit of trying to argue points where the statistics say the exact opposite!

We've won 2 points from our last 6 games.

Can't argue with that statistic.

The possession and passing stats don't suggest we are playing very well either.

However I largely feel these sort of statistics are just a symptom of the modern game. A side can have as little as 25-30% possession and win. The only statistic if value is goals for and against.

I feel we have played better recently but crucially despite this the team carries no threat to the opposition. The Chelsea game being a good example, a below par opposition was never really troubled by Rovers.

IF we really are playing better the proof or not will come in the next six games.

[glen9mullan]

I think its a good constructive post, which offers a different perspective on things. He talks lots of sense and gives good reason in his analysis, Do I agree with him? In Parts

Will I be taking his advise? I always read and take note of constructive posts and this is a good constructive argument, However at present a lot needs to be done before fans will change their opinion, and at present nothing has changed to warrant me changing mine

[Kendalrover]

As I've said in other threads, why are we suddenly "doing better" with Clement as assistant?

I think the simple answer is that he is a better coach than Jensen.

In my view the coach is repsonsible for performance it is the manager's responsibility to turn those performances into wins

I wonder what would happen if we had a better manager than Kean?

[Stuart]

I really can't wait for our next match. Another week of all this and I think I'm going to need therapy.

Assuming Kean remains unsackable then we have no choice but to sit tight and hope that the next (massive) 6 games yield results.

That said, a change of manager, right now, would change the atmosphere immediately, improve the mood over the next 7 days, unite the fans and give us all a fillip going into these matches. At its extreme it might also restore faith in Venkys - although financial rumours continue to persist, they might be put to the backs of our minds.

[bluefred]

i dont think we have any other choice but to sit tight,because the all powerfull mrs d is not about to sack

our incopitant lieing arsh@le of a manager , anytime soon/

[Billy Castell]

That is all very true Jisty, but I'm more likely to win Masterchef with beans on toast with added dog poo. Thing is, the Venky's gang and their puppet master have no ability or desire to be competent.

[beatrix]

At the moment given venkys apparent backing of kean come what may it is very difficult for anything to affect the situation, no one is

listening and fans are getting divided and agitated. Our performances on the field and maximum points are what really matters.

If kean were to turn a corner assisted by clements that would be good for us. It is looking like a witch hunt against kean is not

having any effect other than to divide the fans and demotivate the players. I agree that we would probably be better off with an

experienced PL manager but I doubt the venkys are that bothered unfortunately. However if fans feel the need to protest and it makes

them feel better they have every right to do so.

[Al]

I'm afraid it is a witch hunt against Kean now. He has become so arrogant and confrontational against the fans that it is now personal. Once my season ticket runs out it is either him or me. I believe this is the case with many fans.

[den]

I think it is Al.