[Archived] Flowers

[Exiled in Toronto]

I'm not doubting your stats but surely you would have to randomly ask 588 people from around the ground to get a more realistic result, not just survey 588 like minded individuals like we do on here.

Yes you would. Membership on here would not be the same as the matchday demographic (under-represents older fans for a start plus income, employments status differences), Plus of course the people who voted on here were not selected at random from however many members there are, they were people who felt strongly enough to vote. The couldn't care less ones almost by definition wouldn't have voted - they couldn't care less (and there wasn't a "don't care" answer anyway.)

Not saying the vote on here isn't significant, but there is no way it is statistically representative of the entire fanbase

[trueblue]

I'm not doubting your stats but surely you would have to randomly ask 588 people from around the ground to get a more realistic result, not just survey 588 like minded individuals like we do on here.

Hang on.. Survey 588 people from around the ground (I assume you mean INSIDE the ground here) as opposed to a survey from BRFCS?

Surely, as both sets being surveyed are ROVERS FANS, then it doesn't matter if the vote was taken here OR in the ground!

[cn174]

Yes you would. Membership on here would not be the same as the matchday demographic (under-represents older fans for a start plus income, employments status differences), Plus of course the people who voted on here were not selected at random from however many members there are, they were people who felt strongly enough to vote. The couldn't care less ones almost by definition wouldn't have voted - they couldn't care less (and there wasn't a "don't care" answer anyway.)

Not saying the vote on here isn't significant, but there is no way it is statistically representative of the entire fanbase

Yea, having an online-only poll means it is missing out a percentage of the total population, but in general nowadays there is enough of a variation in people online for it not to matter to the extent it once would. But your other point about people who have voted in this poll were not selected at random so will skew the results.

Now is Pedro volunteering to do a survey of 600 people selected at random the next game to get a definitive answer?!

[Majiball]

I've written something similar before, but a statistically valid sample for 30,000 people (which over estimates the number of Rovers fans at home games) is 588.

This is using the same confidence intervals/levels as an academic paper or government statistics survey would use.

So several of the polls that have been on here would be deemed statistically valid for a population of 30,000.

(i'm going to stop writing stuff like this makes me sound like a right dweeb!)

Bloody hell that low.

Thanks for clearing that up cn174, perhaps someone could mention that at the next Tv interview.

[gumboots]

Yea, having an online-only poll means it is missing out a percentage of the total population, but in general nowadays there is enough of a variation in people online for it not to matter to the extent it once would. But your other point about people who have voted in this poll were not selected at random so will skew the results.

Now is Pedro volunteering to do a survey of 600 people selected at random the next game to get a definitive answer?!

Well at least 30 kids at school (none of whom would be on a MB like this) have said to me today "Venky's need to get rid of Kean and get a proper manager in" "Venkys are ruining Rovers and they need to get out of Blackburn" Venkys are rubbish owners" "Kean should have been sacked ages ago" Would they join protests - no. Would they vote on here - no, but if they can see the damage being done to the club and the reputation of Indian businessmen in this town then so presumably could 588 random people being sampled aoutside the ground, inside the ground or anywhere else.

I haven't marched. I have stayed after matches though not after the Chelsea game. I haven't joined the flower protest but I will weigh up what I think are the merits of any further protests organised and join in when I think it's the right thing to do. I'm not asking anyone else to join, but if and when we are relegated, nor do I want to hear whingeing from anyone who couldn't bring themselves to protest when they knew it was the correct thing to do. If you do nothing, then you ARE allowing them to get away with destroying the club. If you don't like the protests that are going on then find your own way of protesting. Send emails to whoever you want. Write letters. Make sure the club knows your views. Doing nothing is not an option because the current management will use you as part of the statistics they are currently skewing to say the majoriyt of the fans support them and that the discontent is only a few fans.

[Seggie]

Well at least 30 kids at school (none of whom would be on a MB like this) have said to me today "Venky's need to get rid of Kean and get a proper manager in" "Venkys are ruining Rovers and they need to get out of Blackburn" Venkys are rubbish owners" "Kean should have been sacked ages ago" Would they join protests - no. Would they vote on here - no, but if they can see the damage being done to the club and the reputation of Indian businessmen in this town then so presumably could 588 random people being sampled aoutside the ground, inside the ground or anywhere else.

I haven't marched. I have stayed after matches though not after the Chelsea game. I haven't joined the flower protest but I will weigh up what I think are the merits of any further protests organised and join in when I think it's the right thing to do. I'm not asking anyone else to join, but if and when we are relegated, nor do I want to hear whingeing from anyone who couldn't bring themselves to protest when they knew it was the correct thing to do. If you do nothing, then you ARE allowing them to get away with destroying the club. If you don't like the protests that are going on then find your own way of protesting. Send emails to whoever you want. Write letters. Make sure the club knows your views. Doing nothing is not an option because the current management will use you as part of the statistics they are currently skewing to say the majoriyt of the fans support them and that the discontent is only a few fans.

You have a class of highly intellegent idividuals there, you must be an EXCELLENT teacher.

Seriously though as I believe others have pointed out Children are excited by winning, players they like watching, being made to feel part of something, feeling welcome and most of all are influenced by their peers. If Venky's ailienate the kids like it seems they are doing where is our future fanbase going to come from? Sure some may go with their parents and become interested, some may stick around others may not, others may choose to support Man U. I like a lot of others started taking an interest in football before our golden period, my first proper game was Swindon with my Dad who was never really interested in football in 91/92 the feel good factor was there, my Dad would have grown up in the 70s when the feelgood factor wasn't here (My Grandma tells me he took an interest in Leeds becuse they were the top team at the time, Rovers were on a downward spiral) when I was growing up like many in their mid twenties - early thirties grew up as Rovers were becoming good and there was a feel good factor there. We probably will never be as successful again BUT Venky's can keep the feel good factor around the club by keeping the same values of community that Jack instilled and John Williams took even further which was part of the reason we punched above our weight for so many years, Venky's are doing damage to the current fanbase and more important to the future fanbase by their shocking attitude towards the club and morso by their complete contempt for the fans by failing to listen to their concerns.

[Emge]

I wonder who the hell these "fans" are that Kean keeps mentioning giving him praise?? Or is he just lying??

He is milking it to the max, so well done - whoever you are!! Thanks!

[AggyBlue]

I wonder who the hell these "fans" are that Kean keeps mentioning giving him praise?? Or is he just lying??

He is milking it to the max, so well done - whoever you are!! Thanks!

Do keep up. it's 99% of the fanbase

[Kelbo]

One simple way to put this to bed, look at the season ticket fanbase for the previous two seasons, take an average and look at this years figure, my guess is at least a 25% decrease and thats before the people who have changed their views this year and people who are against Kean/Venkys who still have season tickets, my feeling is we could be as high as 70% who want shut of both Kean and Venkys!

[Pedro]

Surely, as both sets being surveyed are ROVERS FANS, then it doesn't matter if the vote was taken here OR in the ground!

No, it matters a hell of a lot. If you surveyed 588 people just the N01 area of the BBurn End (who appear to be the majority of those who stay in to protest) I'd imagine that they would largely share the same opinion. Same goes for if you surveyed 588 from the Jack Walker Upper central stand - I genuinely only saw 2 people stay behind from the entire Jack Walker Stand to protest the other week (obviously you would get a hell of a lot more than 2 people voting for him out though ).

To get an accurate result you need to ask every single supporter - that is very unlikely to happen. To improve the odds of getting an accurate survey you need to approach a range of supporters, of various ages and backgrounds, not just a high percentage of the same demographic.

[Stuart]

No, it matters a hell of a lot. If you surveyed 588 people just the N01 area of the BBurn End (who appear to be the majority of those who stay in to protest) I'd imagine that they would largely share the same opinion. Same goes for if you surveyed 588 from the Jack Walker Upper central stand - I genuinely only saw 2 people stay behind from the entire Jack Walker Stand to protest the other week (obviously you would get a hell of a lot more than 2 people voting for him out though ).

To get an accurate result you need to ask every single supporter - that is very unlikely to happen. To improve the odds of getting an accurate survey you need to approach a range of supporters, of various ages and backgrounds, not just a high percentage of the same demographic.

So you don't think this site is representative of a broad and demographically siverse range of Rovers fans? Because I do.

[Pedro]

So you don't think this site is representative of a broad and demographically siverse range of Rovers fans? Because I do.

No I don't.

[Plastic Head]

Fans arguing again today. Plenty including myself not bothering whether we win or not. Manager taunting the fans.

The club has sold its soul to an Indian devil as far as i'm concerned.

Can someone please tell me someting positive?

[roverandout]

er...steve kean is a brilliant manager??

[Mike Graham]

No, it matters a hell of a lot. If you surveyed 588 people just the N01 area of the BBurn End (who appear to be the majority of those who stay in to protest) I'd imagine that they would largely share the same opinion. Same goes for if you surveyed 588 from the Jack Walker Upper central stand - I genuinely only saw 2 people stay behind from the entire Jack Walker Stand to protest the other week (obviously you would get a hell of a lot more than 2 people voting for him out though ).

To get an accurate result you need to ask every single supporter - that is very unlikely to happen. To improve the odds of getting an accurate survey you need to approach a range of supporters, of various ages and backgrounds,Going not just a high percentage of the same demographic.

A number of us in the JW Upper cannot be arsed any more, along with thousands more Rovers fans.

[Rishton blue]

Fans arguing again today. Plenty including myself not bothering whether we win or not. Manager taunting the fans.

The club has sold its soul to an Indian devil as far as i'm concerned.

Can someone please tell me someting positive?

The Kean out, Kean out was very audible so to then have your hands in the air in the centre circle after struggling to a draw against the worst team in the prem is unreal!!

[Tom]

Was there a Kean Out banner just behind the Rovers dugout today? We thought we could see one but weren't sure.

[perthblue02]

Was there a Kean Out banner just behind the Rovers dugout today? We thought we could see one but weren't sure.

There was a kean out Venkys out banner that showed up on the coverage after Wigan got their second goal , but looked like it was at front of the Rovers supporters , then showed one being unfolded later on just a kean out one. The amount of times it showed Kean looking towards the rovers support when the chants started was unreal , his face was a picture ! He looked like a dead man walking

[Mike Graham]

Nice Venkys Out banner unfurled as well.....must be wht our wonderful owners went and hid in the 2nd half.

[47er]

No, it matters a hell of a lot. If you surveyed 588 people just the N01 area of the BBurn End (who appear to be the majority of those who stay in to protest) I'd imagine that they would largely share the same opinion. Same goes for if you surveyed 588 from the Jack Walker Upper central stand - I genuinely only saw 2 people stay behind from the entire Jack Walker Stand to protest the other week (obviously you would get a hell of a lot more than 2 people voting for him out though ).

To get an accurate result you need to ask every single supporter - that is very unlikely to happen. To improve the odds of getting an accurate survey you need to approach a range of supporters, of various ages and backgrounds, not just a high percentage of the same demographic.

In terms of age, background, locality and socio-economic status, there is a very wide demographic on here.

Political polls are pretty accurate but they don't go beyond 1 and a bit % for their sample.

The problem for you is that you are way out of step with the norm so you have to look around for excuses.

Face it, the overwhelming probability is that you have got it wrong.

[Pedro]

In terms of age, background, locality and socio-economic status, there is a very wide demographic on here.

Political polls are pretty accurate but they don't go beyond 1 and a bit % for their sample.

The problem for you is that you are way out of step with the norm so you have to look around for excuses.

Face it, the overwhelming probability is that you have got it wrong.

Excuses?? No, they are valid responses. You say I am out of step with the norm but that's a positive because I don't have an agenda and I look at it from a level headed point of view.

Next time you go to Ewood have a good look around you and how the crowd is made up. I maintain this board doesn't reflect a like for like reflection of the crowd at Ewood because straight away it alienates the vast amount of older generations (who are the least likely group to be online or interested in messageboards). Also the girl that came up with the percentage based it on 30,000 - which was an idle and massive overestimation because there will never be 30,000 home fans at Ewood - but more importantly she didn't recognise that there is also far from 30,000 adults and she didn't cater for the thousands of children and their opinions. With that in mind - should the opinions of children count or not??

So, that is why I say you have to survey at the stadium but if you still think I've got it wrong, please explain why.

[den]

Pedro, Yougov select a representative cross selection of voters [i.e. age, sex etc], from a panel of registered participants. Their poll showing 80% of rovers fans wanting Kean out was very much in line with the results on here. They are very well recognised for being one of the top polling companies, so you better explain to us how they have got this all wrong as well.

[Pedro]

Pedro, Yougov select a representative cross selection of voters [i.e. age, sex etc], from a panel of registered participants. Their poll showing 80% of rovers fans wanting Kean out was very much in line with the results on here. They are very well recognised for being one of the top polling companies, so you better explain to us how they have got this all wrong as well.

I don't know if it's true or not but someone previously said that Yougov survey only 100 people...if that is true then that's as reliable as Family Fortunes survey

My entire arguement is that it would be much fairer and more accurate to survey people from around the ground - with that in mind I'm puzzled at 47er's narky response because I think it is common sense to approach the paying customers, who for me, count the most.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but from my own point of view I'm still to hear something that would be a better, more fair and accurate method (other than asking every single supporter )

[den]

My entire arguement is that it would be much fairer and more accurate to survey people from around the ground - with that in mind I'm puzzled at 47er's narky response because I think it is common sense to approach the paying customers, who for me, count the most.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but from my own point of view I'm still to hear something that would be a better, more fair and accurate method (other than asking every single supporter )

I've just answered your argument. You argued that the poll on here can't be correct because it doesn't take into account the age of the pollers. Yougov use a representative sample of rovers fans that takes age, sex etc into account. They don't need to go to the ground. They got a result in line with the poll on here. They have a top reputation as pollsters. These polling companies don't need large numbers to get their forecasts pretty accurate.

You can't just write their results off because you don't like them. At the very least, say why they have got it wrong.

[Paul]

My entire arguement is that it would be much fairer and more accurate to survey people from around the ground - with that in mind I'm puzzled at 47er's narky response because I think it is common sense to approach the paying customers, who for me, count the most.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but from my own point of view I'm still to hear something that would be a better, more fair and accurate method (other than asking every single supporter )

If you are comparing with Yougov then after reading the link below I think you would have to agree their method is more accurate:

http://www.yougov.polis.cam.ac.uk/article/yougov-methodology

If you are going to ask a selection of fans around Ewood you first need to establish they are an accurate cross section which random sampling does not. The only way your method could be accurate would be to speak to every fan entering the ground and then it would be statistically accurate for that occasion only - you could get a different set of fans for the next game.