[Archived] How does one man destroy a team?

[PapaLaz]

Would just like to get people's objective opinions on how one man (Kean, in this instance) can so drastically alter the performance of a bunch of very highly paid (and sometimes highly talented) professional footballers?

First up, without passing personal comments on Kean, I absolutely DESPISE the way he has made me feel about my club. Personally I care nothing for him either way, but he's made me feel what I can best descibe as "meh" when looking over BRFC. I'd be lieing if I didn't say I groaned when our 99th minute penalty went in.... I know what some of you are saying, that it isn't right to actively want your team to lose, and I agree, I just want some resemblence of my club back. Constantly refreshing the boards here, even if just to grab onto some rumours/glimmers of hope.

So, back to the question. Lots of comments (which I agree with) on how the team has changed. Particularly our defence, we look an absolute shambles. So how does one person manage to change the way a bunch of players react to their surroundings? Surely Samba et all still understand how to defend, how to communicate, how to approach the game in general. Even with Kean at the helm I actually thought our defence would improve this year, and I *know* I'm not alone in thinking Dann was a superb signing. What has happened? What is it that one person does to so drastically alter things? Is it just about confidence and inspiration etc? Is it based on poor setup, training, and instructions? If it is, then why don't these very experienced players just do what they have learnt over the last 20+yrs, which has obviously worked to make them PL footballers (and in most cases millionaires).

Alas for BRFC I feel it may be too late, even if today brings the greatest of all Crimbo pressies. Even with our signing I thought we were just into top 10 (on a good year). Most teams around us have improved beyond our means, but I really don't think there is enough left of the season to grasp survival - even if a decent gaffer comes in it will be one hell of a struggle. Our best hopes are on the teams around us, hoping at least 3 do much worse than we are managing. Unfortunately that's looking unlikely.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Would just like to get people's objective opinions on how one man (Kean, in this instance) can so drastically alter the performance of a bunch of very highly paid (and sometimes highly talented) professional footballers?

First up, without passing personal comments on Kean, I absolutely DESPISE the way he has made me feel about my club. Personally I care nothing for him either way, but he's made me feel what I can best descibe as "meh" when looking over BRFC. I'd be lieing if I didn't say I groaned when our 99th minute penalty went in.... I know what some of you are saying, that it isn't right to actively want your team to lose, and I agree, I just want some resemblence of my club back. Constantly refreshing the boards here, even if just to grab onto some rumours/glimmers of hope.

So, back to the question. Lots of comments (which I agree with) on how the team has changed. Particularly our defence, we look an absolute shambles. So how does one person manage to change the way a bunch of players react to their surroundings? Surely Samba et all still understand how to defend, how to communicate, how to approach the game in general. Even with Kean at the helm I actually thought our defence would improve this year, and I *know* I'm not alone in thinking Dann was a superb signing. What has happened? What is it that one person does to so drastically alter things? Is it just about confidence and inspiration etc? Is it based on poor setup, training, and instructions? If it is, then why don't these very experienced players just do what they have learnt over the last 20+yrs, which has obviously worked to make them PL footballers (and in most cases millionaires).

Alas for BRFC I feel it may be too late, even if today brings the greatest of all Crimbo pressies. Even with our signing I thought we were just into top 10 (on a good year). Most teams around us have improved beyond our means, but I really don't think there is enough left of the season to grasp survival - even if a decent gaffer comes in it will be one hell of a struggle. Our best hopes are on the teams around us, hoping at least 3 do much worse than we are managing. Unfortunately that's looking unlikely.

Are around 70 odd threads not enough for you?

[PapaLaz]

Thanks, useful reply.

Have not read anything which seems to be a discussion around what Kean is doing differently to make the team this bad, and if his guidance is so bad why do experienced players follow it. That's a general thing too, not just Kean but how can any "manager" come in and destroy a team - what is it they get players doing differently, and if it's so tat why do players do it - they know how to win.

[Mc Love]

Try the one below this one the Steve kean thread

[PapaLaz]

Ok, in that case I apologise. I've gone through most threads here, and they all seem to end up in the same repetitive frustrations rather than being any sort of constructive disucssion. The Steve Kean (Poll) thread seems to mostly contain lots of feelings of how bad he is, the hatred many feel towards him, generals rants.... not too much about why he is bad (there are some posts, but it's not really a discussion)

I shall go back to my quiet, forum-lurking corner

[beerwins]

Apart from it's negative title I think this thread is more about the tactical change of Rovers which causes us to leak so many goals which is slightly different to just discussing Kean.

I think the main thing which is obvious is that Kean is a coach not a manager therefore he is pretty good at rallying the troops but tactically inept, I think that When Sam was in charge the whole game was based around our defence and them launching into attack as fast as possible, Kean has the lads running around full of effort but no shape.

Kean has based his game on attacking and at times the team really dont know how to do this, whether it goes down the wings is passed around or launched out from the back, one of our massive problems this year has been our central midfielder not picking up the runners and defence having too many too mark.

In a game you need at least 3 plans we only seem to have one....attack, we have no idea how to see a game out when we go one up.

[Guest Rovers4Good]

Let's be hinest here, it's not one man who's destroying our team and club. Although i think Kean shouldn't be in charge the alarming things coming out of the club are the doing of the owners to start off with and both Venkys and Kean are killing this club.

[PapaLaz]

this thread is more about the tactical change of Rovers which causes us to leak so many goals which is slightly different to just discussing Kean.

This was exactly my intention for the thread - apologies if the title seems negative and misleading.

Good post, and I think generally I agree with what you say.

Rovers4Good - Agreed, and again misleading title - sorry.

[RibbleValleyRover]

He's tactically inept, he can't set up a balanced team that can defend and at the same time provide an attacking threat. The lack of tactical knowledge also means he can't react to game changing situations such as tactical changes, substitutions etc.

In basic terms he looks like a coach rather than a manager.

[alexanders]

He's tactically inept, he can't set up a balanced team that can defend and at the same time provide an attacking threat. The lack of tactical knowledge also means he can't react to game changing situations such as tactical changes, substitutions etc.

In basic terms he looks like a coach rather than a manager.

Did see some of the tactical ineption (SP?) with Alex Mcleish - Villa manager yesterday against Spurs which makes me think Aston Villa will also struggle this year.

[thenodrog]

Would just like to get people's objective opinions on how one man (Kean, in this instance) can so drastically alter the performance of a bunch of very highly paid (and sometimes highly talented) professional footballers?

Fundamental. Against teams with more expensive squads we are way too easy to score against. When the opposition have possession every player should be between their opposite number and our goal. When a team is occupying a relegation slot defence must always come first.

Not only fundamental it's bloody simple to perform with a disciplined squad. Allardyce and Hughes recognised it whilst two of the worst four letter words that I can readily think of.. Ince and Kean can't see it.

Admitted it's not a tactic that is all that popular with fans of shallow thought but it's a damned site more unpopular with opposing managers. Blackeyed Rovers / Fortress Ewood / Hoofball etc etc. Witness the sh1t we got though the press and media from pundits and opposing managers when we upset their apple carts. Mourhino, Houllier, Benitez and Wenger in particular. Hughes and Allardyce crossed swords and struck sparks off plenty of opposing managers but it speaks volumes that no opposing managers ever spoke ill of Ince or Kean. I wonder why?

Oh nearly forgot.... Pick your own players, don't let your boss do it and judge on ability and not a get rich quick motive.

I see that for once we are in agreement Jackson..... I told you it was stupid to sack Allardyce and install this puppet but you wouldn't have it. One lives and learns eh?

[den]

A short answer to the question: he believes that he can get a small town club with little money, to out pass the rest of the PL clubs.

He's made us into another post Xmas Blackpool.

Much more to it than that I guess, but that's the bottom line.

[Jackson]

Don't forget Jerome.

[philipl]

He has destroyed the club, not just the team.

[DE.]

He has destroyed the club, not just the team.

Venky's have destroyed the club, Kean's destroyed the team. It's a collective effort. Once they bury the club beyond saving they can go on a tour of Burnley as modern-day heroes.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

He has destroyed the club, not just the team.

Get a grip. Venkys have destroyed the club. The manager can only do so much. I dont think Kean has bad intentions, he's just out of his depth. The issue is, why the hell was he hired in the first place and, more pertinently, why is he still here now?? Venkys ripped out the management structure and removed everyone who had efficiently run the club over the past 10 years or so, and that is what is hurting us as much as Kean. The mess in the last transfer window for example was purely down to Venkys incompetence and their indecisiveness right now regarding the backing/sacking of Kean may well see us relegated.

[joey_big_nose]

A short answer to the question: he believes that he can get a small town club with little money, to out pass the rest of the PL clubs.

He's made us into another post Xmas Blackpool.

Much more to it than that I guess, but that's the bottom line.

This is the nub of it. Kean has put everything into making Rovers a passing side full of young talented players who have very little experience and proof of efficacy in this league. This has made us too vulnerable and we have suffered as a result.

In a way it is a shame as if we had managed to sign a decent striker (Ba?) and a couple of decent defensive midfielders (Jermanine Jones, Palaicos) then maybe we would of stood stand chance. The tactics have at times looked decent, but then we have still lost or drawn games, and sometimes - such as Wigan on Saturday - we have looked appalling. No co-ordination, no movement, no closing down, little threat.

When we have three or four signings on the bench each game - Vukcevic, one of Rochina/Formica, Goodwillie and Petrovic - while the team is clearly still weak in places (striker, defensive midfield, full back) you have to say the transfer policy has been very poorly thought out.

[Neil Weaver]

Not going to disagree with much of all the above and far from being a pro-Kean post (my long held views are anything but just in case anybody was inclined to look back)........... but whilst accepting that the manager dictates how the team play, doesn't the coach and senior players have a say in how we play too? They should have a fair idea of individual strengths and weaknesses after all. Is it partly then how much they'll fight their corner against Kean? Or is that a far too simplistic view of the playing side of things?

[LeChuck]

Get a grip. Venkys have destroyed the club. The manager can only do so much.

Sorry but I don't agree at all. Steve Kean has destroyed the club. Ultimately it is Venky's responsibility that they have allowed him to do so, but it is Kean's actions that have done the destroying. Saying Venky's destroyed the club because they hired and then refused to fire Steve Kean just begs the question "what did Steve Kean do?".

Den touched upon one of the main reasons already. Since Souness revived the club over a decade ago, we've always had a hard working, well disciplined and tenacious team. We haven't always had the skill the match other teams, but rarely were we outfought by them. Now we play with the naivety of a newly promoted club, we constantly make mistakes at both ends. No clean sheet since April tells you how easy we have become to play against.

[den]

Den touched upon one of the main reasons already. Since Souness revived the club over a decade ago, we've always had a hard working, well disciplined and tenacious team. We haven't always had the skill the match other teams, but rarely were we outfought by them. Now we play with the naivety of a newly promoted club, we constantly make mistakes at both ends. No clean sheet since April tells you how easy we have become to play against.

Exactly LeChuck. Think of the West Brom's, Burnley's and the Blackpools. They try to play a neat attractive passing game, but without any steel whatsoever. Easy beat. That's exactly what Kean has turned us into. I've been thinking this for quite a while now and don't think this guy has any idea at all about what he's actually achieving.