[Archived] Racism in Football

[Kelbo]

Why on earth are you trotting this out on a topic about racism in football? Have the FA used Sharia law to charge Suarez? I don't think so. Fact is the guy has assumed that because that stuff is acceptable in his own country of Uruguay then it's acceptable here. It's not and he, and whinging scousers, should just take the punishment like a man and move on

I was merely replying to the word coloured which was taught to me at school as being the correct way rather than calling people black, our language is what we are, it should not be changed to suit people who choose to come and live here, thats all!!

[imy9]

I was merely replying to the word coloured which was taught to me at school as being the correct way rather than calling people black, our language is what we are, it should not be changed to suit people who choose to come and live here, thats all!!

The English language has and will evolve over time, coloured was acceptable in your day as were words like half caste BUT things change, my disabled cousin would have been called a spaz a couple of decades ago, acceptable now? Of course not but I don't condemn people who used it at that time but you have to move with the times.

[DE.]

The Hansen stuff does seem a bit OTT. Liverpool's reaction to the Suarez verdict is sickening though. Love playing the victim, do the scousers.

[jim mk2]

This country is so full of pc malingerers and sh1t stirrers it's sickening. Jason Roberts and his like just love pouring petrol onto tiny sparks to create an inferno. As far as I am concerned I am in the Blatter camp and any differences between Terry/Ferdinand and Suarez/ Evra should be settled with a handshake and a chat over a pint in the players lounge.

Come orf it Gordon, this is not the 1960s and terms used 50 years ago are not acceptable now. You're making yourself look a real dinosaur over this - there's no need to call anyone a "black so-and-so" in the day and age. The same applies to Asian and white. The world has moved on and is a better place for it. Terry and Suarez deserve everything thrown at them.

There is an exception however - I think it is OK to abuse right-wing golfers with ginger hair and short legs who live in Pleasington.

This is a joke by the way.

Happy Christmas.

[BuckyRover]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/liverpool-sticking-with-'uruguayan-racism-is-really-friendly'-201112214697/

[Audax]

I've closed this window twice, too much to comment on and one wonders how others will see one's words. The FA may have overstepped and Suarez overstepped but I don't think he was probably real malicious. Lots of circumstances here.

Suarez at one point said Evra's own team mates used this word, I don't know if that is true or false but if that is so, his ban should be reduced.

There's a lot here we don't know.

[Kelbo]

The English language has and will evolve over time, coloured was acceptable in your day as were words like half caste BUT things change, my disabled cousin would have been called a spaz a couple of decades ago, acceptable now? Of course not but I don't condemn people who used it at that time but you have to move with the times.

Point taken Imy.

[Stuart]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/liverpool-sticking-with-'uruguayan-racism-is-really-friendly'-201112214697/

You can't really use Daily Mash as a source Bucky!

[Mike Graham]

I have to be careful here for the sake of BRFCS but lets try: I do personally know 2 members of the England senior squad set up; I am aware, that it is alledged, that John Terry has been involved in race issues before. I have heard, it is rumoured/alleged, that he was involved in beating up an asian kid in a takeaway and it took a lot of £££££'s to hush it all up.

[Amo]

This country is so full of pc malingerers and sh1t stirrers it's sickening. Jason Roberts and his like just love pouring petrol onto tiny sparks to create an inferno. As far as I am concerned I am in the Blatter camp and any differences between Terry/Ferdinand and Suarez/ Evra should be settled with a handshake and a chat over a pint in the players lounge. Football is a passionate game and hot headed antics will never be stopped. All insults are just heat of the moment stuff and neither thought through nor planned. If it could there would be hardly any red cards for any indescretion. All this holier than thou mud slinging is just malicious and nothing else. If either were really racist I'd doubt that the black players in their team would agree to train with them.

+1

I'm not a fan of John Terry but the public flogging by the media has been disgraceful. So John Terry made a careless remark in the heat of the moment? Let's break out the Klan outfit for him. Every tabloid story needs its pantomime villain.

If you wanna kick racism out of football, take Morgan Freeman's advice and 'STOP TALKING ABOUT IT', and ditch hypocritical events like the The Black List Awards that are inherently more racist than anything John Terry has done. The man's been made a scapegoat once again.

Remember all the flak he got for sleeping with Wayne Bridge's missus? He was hung out to dry by the press. Let's compare that to Ryan Giggs, who not only cheated on his wife with several women, including his brother's wife. Bridge wasn't even WITH his missus when she went with Terry, yet somehow Giggs gets off lightly because he's such a 'model pro' on the pitch.

[Veevs]

I am sorry to barge in on this debate but everyone has overlooked serious aspects of this whole debate, Suarez is from Argentina which has a whole different class/race/social setup to our own country, even our little island has its differant areas.. I have lived in Keighly, Aldershot, Stepney green, Leeds, Norwich, Blackburn and a whole host of places throughout the UK.. and I am sad to say racism is everywhere but each little area has its own way of portraying things. In Keighly for example my close family was spat at on the street on numerous occasions (mum, Step mum, sister and my ex wife to be), I was aliented by the local white folk for moving to the asian area and the asian populace even went as far as kicking my then wife to be and daughter (9 months) out of a traditional victorian park because it was 'their park'... to add insult to injury the local Asian youths tried to run me over in a BMW. But the situation in Keighly got there because of IMO the local press and a chain of events that coloured everyones judgement.

At the end of the day people have their own views and reasons for them but everyone judges everyone else based on their own experiences without appreciating the world as a whole.

In brazil for example the racist terms are backwards to us.. Niger for example is not classified as a racist term.. took me a while to explain that to my ex who kept calling my friends of an african background Nigers.. because it is not racist out there.. so please do not even dare consider me racist on that, it is just a fact.

All we have to do at this moment in time is look at the papers.. us blackburn fans are country wide been vilified for booing Kean and too many people believe the press.. kean deserves it for his actions towards fans and the owners who are putting him in this situation walk free.

I wish every race/creed/genre/status on this planet would take an example from the Irish.. who can take a joke about themselves and not care, in fact the little bu**ers delight in it...

[thenodrog]

Is this a wind up?

Lets get back to throwing bananas on the players and crowds to be chanting racist material because as you say as long as people shake hands after the game its all ok.

I am assuming that you are white Drog, is that a colour? So why should a black person be refered to as 'coloured'? Brown/black/white are all colours, thats why its an unacceptable term.

Rubbish opinion. So tell me why baa baa black sheep and blackboards are deemed politically unacceptable in many schools? Imy do you think Hansen is racist? Do you? If not then why tf should he feel the need to apologise? It's barmy. It appears to me that non whites who object are either ashamed of their skin colour for some reason (which is completely bloody nuts) OR the whole issue is being promoted for political gain in some way.

Whilst we are at it imy how come Olivers Army is still played on the radio etc? Replace one word in the line "Only takes one itchy trigger. One more widow, one less white nigger" with "black" and that song would never have been to press. Now I can't speak for anybody else but that line doesn't offend me one bit, and I can't understand why it should.

[Stuart]

I don't know why I bother. You do know what Oliver's Army is about, right? And you do know what that particular "inoffensive" term is in reference to? The fact it was "pressed" anyway undermines your point.

Underneath it all you have some relevant points, at times, and are generally pretty forward thinking, contrary to popular belief, but you spoil yourself with deliberately inflammatory remarks.

Stick to Allardyce for a bit will you.

[bluefred]

as everybody knows ,we at blackburn rovers are racist arent we ?

after all we sacked a good black english manager in paul ince according

to the press.

[imy9]

Rubbish opinion. So tell me why baa baa black sheep and blackboards are deemed politically unacceptable in many schools? Imy do you think Hansen is racist? Do you? If not then why tf should he feel the need to apologise? It's barmy. It appears to me that non whites who object are either ashamed of their skin colour for some reason (which is completely bloody nuts) OR the whole issue is being promoted for political gain in some way.

Whilst we are at it imy how come Olivers Army is still played on the radio etc? Replace one word in the line "Only takes one itchy trigger. One more widow, one less white nigger" with "black" and that song would never have been to press. Now I can't speak for anybody else but that line doesn't offend me one bit, and I can't understand why it should.

Jisty has explained the song point eloquently so wont repeat that.

On the topic of schools you state it as fact about the blackboard etc, do you know this as fact? I have worked in many schools and the vast majority of people I interact with are teachers this has NEVER been brought up as an issue.

Hansen is not racist but then nor is Ron Atkinson- who made racist remarks, does not make him racist there is a clear difference. Hansen's remark was something that I'd expect from a person playing football in the 70's and 80's but does not make it acceptable. Are you coloured Theno? White is a colour so why should a black player be referred to as coloured?

Back to your ludicrous statement that shaking hands at the end of a match should be the end result after a player is racially abused, is a backward statement, Blatter has been rightly ridiculed for it.

[thenodrog]

Hansen is not racist but then nor is Ron Atkinson- who made racist remarks, does not make him racist there is a clear difference. Hansen's remark was something that I'd expect from a person playing football in the 70's and 80's but does not make it acceptable. Are you coloured Theno? White is a colour so why should a black player be referred to as coloured?

Back to your ludicrous statement that shaking hands at the end of a match should be the end result after a player is racially abused, is a backward statement, Blatter has been rightly ridiculed for it.

Bit of an argument about whether or not black and white actually are colours but it's hardly relevent.

What is relevent is that because every decade somebody thinks up a silly little rule change everyone else has to slavishly line up behind it.

Consider this imy.... The UK has less than 1% of the earths population and miles less area as a land mass, less than 5% of the earths population speaks Englsih yet ludicrously you and others have the temerity to believe that everybody has to adopt our standards and the vagaries of our language. I'm all for a when in Rome policy but to crucify Suarez and Blatter for what they may see as everyday remarks simply through ignorance of which way the wind is blowing in this country at any given time is pompous and an example if stubborn intransigence. Terry is slightly different cos English is his first language but his actions were simply heat of the moment stuff on a football field. If Suarez and Terry were actually racist do you think their black / coloured / negro (take your pick depending on your age) teammates would have anything to do with them? As yet I've heard nothing to say they have ostracised them within the club so maybe that gives lie to the notion that some mischief makers are putting forward they are rabid out and out racists?

btw "Are you coloured Theno?" Bit of a pinkish hue maybe especially when the sun shines but I am a ginger. I can tell you that we are subjected to far more colour prejudice than your lot these days too! Nobody makes laws about taking then p1ss out of us so we just have to get on with it without moaning. I do think not being ashamed of my hair colour and rolling with it rather than constantly whingeing has made me a much stronger person though.

btw 2 Imy .... How do you view people taking the p1ss out of people with freckles cos I've had that a'plenty when I was younger? I suppose freckles prob make me a bit half and halfish don't they? I look forward to your reply.

[thenodrog]

as everybody knows ,we at blackburn rovers are racist arent we ?

after all we sacked a good black english manager in paul ince according

to the press.

Exactly. Done to death at the time but Oliver Holt and his cronies conveniently forgot that we gave him a huge leg up by employing the useless burger in the first place.

[imy9]

Bit of an argument about whether or not black and white actually are colours but it's hardly relevent.

What is relevent is that because every decade somebody thinks up a silly little rule change everyone else has to slavishly line up behind it.

Consider this imy.... The UK has less than 1% of the earths population and miles less area as a land mass, less than 5% of the earths population speaks Englsih yet ludicrously you and others have the temerity to believe that everybody has to adopt our standards and the vagaries of our language. I'm all for a when in Rome policy but to crucify Suarez and Blatter for what they may see as everyday remarks simply through ignorance of which way the wind is blowing in this country at any given time is pompous and an example if stubborn intransigence. Terry is slightly different cos English is his first language but his actions were simply heat of the moment stuff on a football field. If Suarez and Terry were actually racist do you think their black / coloured / negro (take your pick depending on your age) teammates would have anything to do with them? As yet I've heard nothing to say they have ostracised them within the club so maybe that gives lie to the notion that some mischief makers are putting forward they are rabid out and out racists?

At any point have I said Suarez/Blatter/Terry are racist?? Terry and Suarez have allegedly made racist comments on a football field. Making a racist comment does not necessarily make you a racist.

Our standards?? Abusing someone based on the colour of their skin is unacceptable. In any society. Culturally Suarez may refer to his black friends as 'negroes' but when he uses it as a form of abuse towards someone else then it is a racist term, no question.

Also the words negro, coloured etc were used at a time when black people were treated like second class citizens stands to reason that once this changed the words would too. The English language constantly changes, it evolves. I hear words like 'sick', 'heavy' at school and the meaning has changed completely, other words like bad have changed at least three times! It's the beauty of the language and something I wholeheartedly embrace.

[K-Hod]

I think the Suarez/Evra thing has been blown out of proportion. According to what I've raid in the papers- Suarez touched Evra and Evra said 'don't touch me you south american', Suarez replied with 'why not negro?'

If this is true, then surely Evra should be done as well?

(Unless of course Suarez used a variation of the word beginning with 'N' above)

[imy9]

Bit of an argument about whether or not black and white actually are colours but it's hardly relevent.

What is relevent is that because every decade somebody thinks up a silly little rule change everyone else has to slavishly line up behind it.

Consider this imy.... The UK has less than 1% of the earths population and miles less area as a land mass, less than 5% of the earths population speaks Englsih yet ludicrously you and others have the temerity to believe that everybody has to adopt our standards and the vagaries of our language. I'm all for a when in Rome policy but to crucify Suarez and Blatter for what they may see as everyday remarks simply through ignorance of which way the wind is blowing in this country at any given time is pompous and an example if stubborn intransigence. Terry is slightly different cos English is his first language but his actions were simply heat of the moment stuff on a football field. If Suarez and Terry were actually racist do you think their black / coloured / negro (take your pick depending on your age) teammates would have anything to do with them? As yet I've heard nothing to say they have ostracised them within the club so maybe that gives lie to the notion that some mischief makers are putting forward they are rabid out and out racists?

btw "Are you coloured Theno?" Bit of a pinkish hue maybe especially when the sun shines but I am a ginger. I can tell you that we are subjected to far more colour prejudice than your lot these days too! Nobody makes laws about taking then p1ss out of us so we just have to get on with it without moaning. I do think not being ashamed of my hair colour and rolling with it rather than constantly whingeing has made me a much stronger person though.

btw 2 Imy .... How do you view people taking the p1ss out of people with freckles cos I've had that a'plenty when I was younger? I suppose freckles prob make me a bit half and halfish don't they? I look forward to your reply.

Taking the mick out of your freckles is not the same as abusing someone based on the colour of their skin lol.

'My lot' hey... Check the stats on how many race related incidents occur in the UK and who are the people bein abused then analyse the % of that colour in the UK think you'll find that black/Asian people are still suffering from racist behaviour more than any other group.

The day you start/ certain people in society stop thinking of people as 'you lot' and 'my lot' we may yet make progress can't see it happening anytime soon what do you think?

[thenodrog]

Taking the mick out of your freckles is not the same as abusing someone based on the colour of their skin lol.

Colour of skin is determined by the amount of pigmentation, freckles are concentrated spots of the same pigment. Carry on imy.

[imy9]

Colour of skin is determined by the amount of pigmentation, freckles are concentrated spots of the same pigment. Carry on imy.

Dismissed the entire post and focused on two lines. Your recent posts have been top drawer recently mate, let's see there was the 'blah blah' post after Mark wrote an excellent reasoned response and now we have the someone is racist if they take the pi** out of your freckles post lol! The irony being that you truly believe that the world is getting too PC!! Have a Merry Christmas x

[Audax]

I think the Suarez/Evra thing has been blown out of proportion. According to what I've raid in the papers- Suarez touched Evra and Evra said 'don't touch me you south american', Suarez replied with 'why not negro?'

If this is true, then surely Evra should be done as well?

(Unless of course Suarez used a variation of the word beginning with 'N' above) - K Hod

I agree, I've read a few stories on this.

To other things, people here are talking about freckles or whatever, I do think if one is say 'obese' or less kind words, yeah, that is a sort of discrimination as well. Lampard, well, he's gotten some of that from WHU fans.

So depending on what the story is K-Hod, there are a number of variants but yeah, calling someone a South American would be referring to his origin and would seem the same. I thought it is alleged Suarez repeated this a number of times.

I went and found this article posted in the John Terry thread on the Evra/Suarez brushup:

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/881648-luis-suarez-could-avoid-patrice-evra-racism-rap-due-to-spanish-slang

And that article does say "supposedly" what L. Suarez said. Knowing Spanish, in a sense if this is what happened it's not that bad but he should not have repeated it.

And that thread: http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/22711-john-terry/page__st__300

So it sounds like we don't know the details in these matters... but even if Suarez was using an "innocent" word, I don't think he should have repeated it if he said it a number of times, on the other hand, from what you say, if Evra started the whole thing, it might be a bit different. Here I go on but even if Suarez said "okay Frenchman", in a way, that would be the same kind of deal. We don't know the facts. I wouldn't quite call someone a South American on the pitch, that being a lot easier than calling someone a Uruguayan which Suarez is, the first term could sound a bit intimidating. "Okay, South American."

[AllRoverAsia]

I find discussions like this quite amusing.

Is it a one way street?

Or is it the Pot calling the Kettle ...... I obviously have no idea what the next word should be. I mean that - I don't know what can be said without offending someone somewhere. I can see a Rainbow.....

Politics sex and the other one - never discuss in the Pub or on a MB

[ChelseaOhMy]

I am sorry to barge in on this debate but everyone has overlooked serious aspects of this whole debate, Suarez is from Argentina which has a whole different class/race/social setup to our own country, even our little island has its differant areas.. I have lived in Keighly, Aldershot, Stepney green, Leeds, Norwich, Blackburn and a whole host of places throughout the UK.. and I am sad to say racism is everywhere but each little area has its own way of portraying things. In Keighly for example my close family was spat at on the street on numerous occasions (mum, Step mum, sister and my ex wife to be), I was aliented by the local white folk for moving to the asian area and the asian populace even went as far as kicking my then wife to be and daughter (9 months) out of a traditional victorian park because it was 'their park'... to add insult to injury the local Asian youths tried to run me over in a BMW. But the situation in Keighly got there because of IMO the local press and a chain of events that coloured everyones judgement.

At the end of the day people have their own views and reasons for them but everyone judges everyone else based on their own experiences without appreciating the world as a whole.

In brazil for example the racist terms are backwards to us.. Niger for example is not classified as a racist term.. took me a while to explain that to my ex who kept calling my friends of an african background Nigers.. because it is not racist out there.. so please do not even dare consider me racist on that, it is just a fact.

All we have to do at this moment in time is look at the papers.. us blackburn fans are country wide been vilified for booing Kean and too many people believe the press.. kean deserves it for his actions towards fans and the owners who are putting him in this situation walk free.

I wish every race/creed/genre/status on this planet would take an example from the Irish.. who can take a joke about themselves and not care, in fact the little bu**ers delight in it...

!!!

Suarez has previously played for Ajax in Holland for years. It's not like he just came to Europe. He knew it was the wrong word.