[Archived] Givet

[Mattyblue]

I think you need to wind your neck in a little - at no point did I say they had it right

"JW said a long time ago that our wage bill was too high - he wasn't prepared to put our Premiership safety at risk by attempting to address this. It would seem that our owners feel they can address the wage bill issue - but at what risk - we will find out in May (and possibly beyond as attendances continue to drop)."

Doesn't sound like saying they have got it right.

Emerton - I agreed he was a huge loss - I was more than a little surprised they let him go when they did. At not point did I say what they did was right or wrong - I don't know his personal issues in wanting to move back to Oz or how it left him emotionally. I find it a little surprising that many call the club for lack of respect to long standing players like Nelsen - and yet they also appear to being called for what was a significant gesture to Emerton.

No, the issue with Nelsen is letting go a vital player, Im sure he isn't arsed about being 'disrespected' by the club considering he's playing for Tottenham.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I await with interest.

Then you will be waiting along time - because at no point did I say they had it right.

Its amazing - say anything that can be construed in the slightest way as being positive - and you are automatically deemed as pro-Kean and pro-Venky's. I have been a Rovers fan for over 30 years - and will view each player,result etc on its own merits and won't be swayed by the witch hunts that seem to go on this message board.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

No, the issue with Nelsen is letting go a vital player, Im sure he isn't arsed about being 'disrespected' by the club considering he's playing for Tottenham.

A quote for you :-

"Can't ay I disagree with you Hughesy, Salgado, Roberts, Nelsen all past their prime, ergo those contracts were absolutely ridiculous."

Letting Nelsen go, with hindsight, was daft. However - it was at the end of the European transfer window when it looked like Samba was staying (whether he liked it or not) - so you could argue we had 4 good centre-halves. Personally it was still a risk given Samba's state of mind at the time.

IMO Nelsen had been in decline for over a season - as age and injuries caught up with - but his experience, even just on the training ground to help Hanley and Dann - would have been valuable.

[John]

Not sure if it is ideal for any team, particularly one struggling, to let both their captains leave in the same transfer window.

[Kendalrover]

I think most people would agree that giving improved extended contracts last January (with built in guarantees of future contracts) to players like Roberts, Nelson, Salgado and Dunn and the massive contract to Samba was nothing short of stupid (same about Dunn's improved contract this year).

It was nothing more than a blatant attempt to buy loyalty for an unpopular regime and manager. The contracts could also have generated some healthy payments for others.

It is actions like these that question the motives of the current regime and whether or not they are acting in the best interests of the club. These are serious concerns and certainly there are a whole host of questions that need answering about the governance at the club.

Of course we know this will never happen. We may have to wait years but I am sure that the truth will eventually come out.

[savage90]

My guess tomorrow now that he has 'recovered' is... unused substitute.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

My guess tomorrow now that he has 'recovered' is... unused substitute.

The rumours may or may not be true - but we heard the same rumour's about Robinson when he was injured - also before Givet got injured Hanley was dropped to accommodate Dann, when surely Dann is on a bigger play bonus ?

Over the next couple of games, Kean has to freshen up the squad - for an away match Givet is ideal at left back - we all wait with bated breath

[47er]

I think you need to wind your neck in a little - at no point did I say they had it right

"JW said a long time ago that our wage bill was too high - he wasn't prepared to put our Premiership safety at risk by attempting to address this. It would seem that our owners feel they can address the wage bill issue - but at what risk - we will find out in May (and possibly beyond as attendances continue to drop)."

Doesn't sound like saying they have got it right.

Emerton - I agreed he was a huge loss - I was more than a little surprised they let him go when they did. At not point did I say what they did was right or wrong - I don't know his personal issues in wanting to move back to Oz or how it left him emotionally. I find it a little surprising that many call the club for lack of respect to long standing players like Nelsen - and yet they also appear to being called for what was a significant gesture to Emerton.

I never used the phraise 'they got it right"!!!!!!!

I said "so much right' in your opinion because you defend them at every turn.

You're wrong about Diouf, its not a smack in the face to tell Emerton "we need you a little bit longer" and the way Nelsen was treated was an absolute disgrace.

Why are we in the bottom 3 by the way?

[Exiled in Toronto]

and the way Nelsen was treated was an absolute disgrace.

Oh for the days when everyone was treated with dignity and respect, such as Tony Parkes reading over his cornflakes he was sacked after 30 years loyal service, and Roberts not being given a squad number after being 2nd highest scorer the year before. I'm sure they are both disgusted Nelsen was given a free to join a top 4 club.

[savage90]

The rumours may or may not be true - but we heard the same rumour's about Robinson when he was injured - also before Givet got injured Hanley was dropped to accommodate Dann, when surely Dann is on a bigger play bonus ?

Over the next couple of games, Kean has to freshen up the squad - for an away match Givet is ideal at left back - we all wait with bated breath

Dann's pals with Kean, the thing with Givet is he's one of the few experienced pro's we have left, he's seen the club in it's better state. Birmingham City was generally poor in comparison to Rovers, Dann will be grateful to be here in the premier league. I think it's plausible that Givet is either unsettled with the regime or that his already large contract has healthy appearance fees. I hope i'm wrong and that it has just been a 'niggle', fingers crossed he has a key role in the run in. I'm just sceptical cause covering up truths with injuries is Kean's party trick.

[glen9mullan]

Sams line up for his final game in charge against Bolton lost 2-1

Robinson, Salgado, Nelsen, Samba, Givet, Diouf, P Jones, Gamst, Emerton, Olsson, Roberts, Subs Bunn, Hanley, Hoilett, Dunn, Kalinic, M, Diouf Benjani

Kean's last line up against United lost 2-0

Robinson, Orr, Hanley, Dann, Olsson, Gamst, Nzonzi, Olsson, Lowe, Hoilett, Yakubu Subs Bunn Modeste, Formica, Rochina, Petrovic,Dunn, Henley.

Questions.

1. Which team would be more likely to win today?

2. Which team is worth more?

3. Which team if they played 38 games would finish higher (Using all 17 players) ?

4. Which squad with 7games to go would you rather have to try and keep you up,

Things to take into account.

1. Sams team is under the walkers trust with no investment

2. Kean's is under Venkys with more money made available to him in in 12 months than any previous manager the club has had.to tweek his squad

[Mattyblue]

Oh for the days when everyone was treated with dignity and respect, such as Tony Parkes reading over his cornflakes he was sacked after 30 years loyal service, and Roberts not being given a squad number after being 2nd highest scorer the year before. I'm sure they are both disgusted Nelsen was given a free to join a top 4 club.

I agree, Nelsen wasn't treated badly at all, he's got a good move. It is us poor mugs seeing player after player leave that are repeatedly smacked in the face.

[47er]

Oh for the days when everyone was treated with dignity and respect, such as Tony Parkes reading over his cornflakes he was sacked after 30 years loyal service, and Roberts not being given a squad number after being 2nd highest scorer the year before. I'm sure they are both disgusted Nelsen was given a free to join a top 4 club.

You are being deliberately disingenuous! First of all re Nelsen, his poor treatment lies in the fact that he was fit and never selected because the club wanted him out. Furthermore, they lied about it.

Secondly you are using the "broad-brush technique" in an attempt to demonstrate a status quo that never was.

2 examples of what you feel is poor conduct in the past (2 episodes separated by 3 to 4 years incidently) cannot be held to prove that nothing has changed and the club has always behaved in this way.

Do you really believe that?

[Stuart]

Oh for the days when everyone was treated with dignity and respect, such as Tony Parkes reading over his cornflakes he was sacked after 30 years loyal service, and Roberts not being given a squad number after being 2nd highest scorer the year before. I'm sure they are both disgusted Nelsen was given a free to join a top 4 club.

Tony Parkes finding out like that - assuming that's true - yes, very poor.

Roberts falling out with Sam - well it takes 2 and Roberts did want to leave. If anything it's amazing man-management that meant Roberts actually played again under Allardyce.

Yes, the thing with Nelsen is being blown out proportion and, yes, he got a good move whilst allegedly being forced out. However, after the loyalty and service he had shown it's churlish that a short note thanking him for his years of service to the club wasn't posted on the club website. In my opinion, the fact such a simple and cheap act wasn't shows carried out deliberate contempt.

Besides all that the difference now is that we have the most dignified man in the world at the helm. It should have been easy for him.

[John]

Oh for the days when everyone was treated with dignity and respect, such as Tony Parkes reading over his cornflakes he was sacked after 30 years loyal service, and Roberts not being given a squad number after being 2nd highest scorer the year before. I'm sure they are both disgusted Nelsen was given a free to join a top 4 club.

Many would say Roberts played his best football at Rovers during that time.

Even though poor at least the club apologised for the Parkes episode - that funny thing called good communication.

You can continue to make digs at the trust and previous ownership/management, however the results on and off the pitch during their time in charge speak for themselves.

[47er]

Tony Parkes finding out like that - assuming that's true - yes, very poor.

Roberts falling out with Sam - well it takes 2 and Roberts did want to leave. If anything it's amazing man-management that meant Roberts actually played again under Allardyce.

Yes, the thing with Nelsen is being blown out proportion and, yes, he got a good move whilst allegedly being forced out. However, after the loyalty and service he had shown it's churlish that a short note thanking him for his years of service to the club wasn't posted on the club website. In my opinion, the fact such a simple and cheap act wasn't shows carried out deliberate contempt.

Besides all that the difference now is that we have the most dignified man in the world at the helm. It should have been easy for him.

Nelsen got a good move for one reason only---he's a good player. This bit isn't poor treatment, just poor judgement.

[Stuart]

Nelsen got a good move for one reason only---he's a good player. This bit isn't poor treatment, just poor judgement.

You've made some great points recently but my beef is his treatment upon leaving. Even if Kean and Nelsen have fallen out, there should still be a statement of thanks from 'the club'.

What you need to be careful of is arguing speculation as fact. Who's to say Nelsen declared himself fit and was left out? What's happening with Salgado suggests it is likely but not certain.

Either way, what Kean does appear to be guilty of is ######-poor man-management skills.

[47er]

You've made some great points recently but my beef is his treatment upon leaving. Even if Kean and Nelsen have fallen out, there should still be a statement of thanks from 'the club'.

What you need to be careful of is arguing speculation as fact. Who's to say Nelsen declared himself fit and was left out? What's happening with Salgado suggests it is likely but not certain.

Either way, what Kean does appear to be guilty of is ######-poor man-management skills.

There was never any suggestion from the club that Nelsen was remotely near making a come-back.He'd been "unavailable" for months. Yet Arry signed him and he was on the bench days later!

He played the 2nd game after his transfer! Isn't that proof enough? He was fit alright, the dopey owners wanted him out the door. Kean's position I've no idea about, just a yes-man anyway.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Sams line up for his final game in charge against Bolton lost 2-1

Robinson, Salgado, Nelsen, Samba, Givet, Diouf, P Jones, Gamst, Emerton, Olsson, Roberts, Subs Bunn, Hanley, Hoilett, Dunn, Kalinic, M, Diouf Benjani

Kean's last line up against United lost 2-0

Robinson, Orr, Hanley, Dann, Olsson, Gamst, Nzonzi, Olsson, Lowe, Hoilett, Yakubu Subs Bunn Modeste, Formica, Rochina, Petrovic,Dunn, Henley.

Questions.

1. Which team would be more likely to win today?

2. Which team is worth more?

3. Which team if they played 38 games would finish higher (Using all 17 players) ?

4. Which squad with 7games to go would you rather have to try and keep you up,

Things to take into account.

1. Sams team is under the walkers trust with no investment

2. Kean's is under Venkys with more money made available to him in in 12 months than any previous manager the club has had.to tweek his squad

Makes you think - we get beat 2-1 by Bolton with both managers - and yet I presume you are saying we now have a far weaker team - does that make Kean a managerial master :-)

Only joking

To be fair - Kean only had money to spend by selling Jones - and the Samba money has fallen into a black hole. Obviously the money he took in hasn't been particularly well spent - but that seems to be a pattern at Rovers since Jack passed away - where when we have had money from sales we haven't necessarily spent it well.

[47er]

Makes you think - we get beat 2-1 by Bolton with both managers - and yet I presume you are saying we now have a far weaker team - does that make Kean a managerial master :-)

Only joking

To be fair - Kean only had money to spend by selling Jones - and the Samba money has fallen into a black hole. Obviously the money he took in hasn't been particularly well spent - but that seems to be a pattern at Rovers since Jack passed away - where when we have had money from sales we haven't necessarily spent it well.

Nothing quite matches the load of dross we've ended up with now. Given that we have "the new Rooney'"the New Dennis Irwin" and "the New Chris Smalling" we surely ought to be doing much better?

However, since they never play I can only assume they're being saved for the European Champions League.

[Exiled in Toronto]

You are being deliberately disingenuous! First of all re Nelsen, his poor treatment lies in the fact that he was fit and never selected because the club wanted him out. Furthermore, they lied about it.

Secondly you are using the "broad-brush technique" in an attempt to demonstrate a status quo that never was.

2 examples of what you feel is poor conduct in the past (2 episodes separated by 3 to 4 years incidently) cannot be held to prove that nothing has changed and the club has always behaved in this way.

Do you really believe that?

I believe we have poor owners but I also believe the past was not as rosy as is portrayed on here. Nelsen didn't get a thankyou is disappointing but isn't in the same league of callousness as Parkes' treatment, reading in the Sun he was sacked to make way for another of Hughes' flunky.

It's a sh!tty business and sh!tty things have always happened, even under Trust/Williams

[Amo]

I believe we have poor owners but I also believe the past was not as rosy as is portrayed on here. Nelsen didn't get a thankyou is disappointing but isn't in the same league of callousness as Parkes' treatment, reading in the Sun he was sacked to make way for another of Hughes' flunky.

It's a sh!tty business and sh!tty things have always happened, even under Trust/Williams

Sounds like petty point-scoring to me, EiT.

I mean, what exactly is your point? Yes, the previous owners made some mistakes (I don't believe removing Parkes was one of them, btw), but you can't argue against their overall record. They oversaw our longest stay in the top-flight since 1936, with a respected and stable board-room which fostered a feeling of local pride and affinity both on and off the pitch. Of course, their eventual apathy for the club is what culminated in Venky's takeover in the first place but there is no comparison between the two parties. Venky's have been an unmitigated disaster from day one and the case of Nelsen is simply another black mark against their ownership.

[47er]

I believe we have poor owners but I also believe the past was not as rosy as is portrayed on here. Nelsen didn't get a thankyou is disappointing but isn't in the same league of callousness as Parkes' treatment, reading in the Sun he was sacked to make way for another of Hughes' flunky.

It's a sh!tty business and sh!tty things have always happened, even under Trust/Williams

A bit more common now aren't they, these "######" things"?

Once again, the lack of a thank you note for Nelsen is not the issue, any more than his free transfer to Spurs. I've explained what I think its about, you've ignored it and I can't be bothered explaining it again.

Though bad things happened occasionally, we were renowned as a family club with a friendly and welcoming atmosphere where footballers really enjoyed their time at Ewood.

Big difference now. We don't even welcome the fans these days!

PS--I'm censored for quoting the word "######" but the original in EIT's post remains !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!TWICE :excl:Please explain :!:

[Stuart]

PS--I'm censored for quoting the word "######" but the original in EIT's post remains !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!TWICE :excl:Please explain :!:

Ironically it's the use of the character you used as an emoticon.

EiT's "!" has beaten the swear filter.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Sounds like petty point-scoring to me, EiT.

I mean, what exactly is your point? Yes, the previous owners made some mistakes (I don't believe removing Parkes was one of them, btw), but you can't argue against their overall record. They oversaw our longest stay in the top-flight since 1936, with a respected and stable board-room which fostered a feeling of local pride and affinity both on and off the pitch. Of course, their eventual apathy for the club is what culminated in Venky's takeover in the first place but there is no comparison between the two parties. Venky's have been an unmitigated disaster from day one and the case of Nelsen is simply another black mark against their ownership.

Other than overall the Trust were marvelous and overall Venky's are awful, what exactly is your point? No matter, let's all just repeat it umpteen times a day. No wonder this messageboard is on its arse