[Archived] Asset Stripping

[he6rt6gr6m]

ffs when you see the evidence and the body on the floor, the murder has already been committed. we are trying to stop these people killing brfc. do you want to wait and then catch them after we have been buried?

I want to make sure NOBODY GETS SUED.

If you want to, by all means, do it. Print flyers with all the facts and "facts" on it. If you want to do it PROPERLY, it's going to take a long time to separate the legal fact from the legal fiction to put on a flyer and distribute to 20,000 people.

No matter what you believe, some of it is without proof, so you can't print it!

If there is something untoward, something will come out. One day. I just hope that that day comes soon...

Possibly but not all ...

If you print it, you prove it. If you don't, I hope you're rich.

[bestierover]

I want to make sure NOBODY GETS SUED.

If you want to, by all means, do it. Print flyers with all the facts and "facts" on it. If you want to do it PROPERLY, it's going to take a long time to separate the legal fact from the legal fiction to put on a flyer and distribute to 20,000 people.

No matter what you believe, some of it is without proof, so you can't print it!

If there is something untoward, something will come out. One day. I just hope that that day comes soon...

If you print it, you prove it. If you don't, I hope you're rich.

An old saying that has stood me in good stead over the years, "you can't get blood out of a stone".

[bestierover]

Btw. Some of the asset side will be in the public domain. Charges registered thereon also. What that proves, however?

[Puffsan]

I have to agree that the indicators sage wrote about looks like an abc guide on how to asset strip, however there are some things in my head that goes against the theory that the are stripping assets. I have read the rumor that is all over LET, and the rumors a couple of weeks ago, im not going to write anything more about that, but i do have some questions i hope to clarify

1. if asset stripping is what is happening/going to happen, how much cash can you actually milk out of blackburn rovers? if we get relegated and the club starts to sell players how much is a reasonable estimate for the players. ill say 20-30 millions tops, possibly alot less. not every singel player will get sold, and some players have short contracts.

2. If we get relegated the parachute payment (isnt it 48 millions over 4 years) will have to go to pay rovers expenses correct? if i've heard correct the loan venkys have taken up on rovers is only on tv rights and not the parachute, and they can't just put the parachute money in their pocket and leave. Also since its over 4 years, i don't really see them hanging around until 2016.

3. if the plan is to strip all the assets in rovers why did we not sell any players in the summer window. Yes we sold phil jones, but everyone saw that coming, and kalinic was a failure anyway. Also wouldn't it be in be in everyones interest to sack steve kean, or give him another job in the background of the club, as we of course get more money from the players if we are still in the premier league? surely if the plan is to get us relegated im sure steve kean would have managed that last season.

4. If we assume venkys are business people with at least some ethics and morale wouldnt they be happy with accepting the bid from the qataris and earn 30 millions legally. i mean they would get twice as much as the paid for the club. the venkys are very rich, would they risk becoming criminals by asset stripping us? it doesn't look like they really need the money, and i would guess there are easier ways to asset strip companies than buying a premier league club who gets alot of media attention.

5. Steve kean. i do not know how much he earned before he got the job as manager and i do not know how much he earns now. What i do know (or have heard) is that he is earning quite less than most other managers in the premier league, at least before his pay rise. If he is involved or "in the know" of a plan about asset stripping surely he would want more money. Yes maybe he could get money under the table or on other illegal ways, but the safest way go give him money would have been to give him an original salary that was at least the same amount as an average pl manager. Noone would have thought that was suspicious. If illegal things are happening it would be very stupid to give him a low salary, and then give him a pay rise when the results are bad. That will draw the medias attention, and surely asset strippers would want as little attention as possible? In addition steve kean has worked with football all his life. He knows nothing else. Would he risk his career for quick money? how much money could he possibly earn on an asset strip, without being investigated? Is steve keans plan to retire on the bahamas? if he is involved in anything like this he will never get a job with football again (and if hes not involved he will probably not get a football related job anyway).

5. last thing: the board, executives and directors in blackburn rovers. They will have to have information about some of these things, at least the transactions. If an auditor suddenly comes on a surprise visit they will have to show all transactions in and out. If asset stripping is happening these people will know about it, and they will be in on it. if they arent involved and they know whats happening, im pretty sure they will face charges for not reporting about whats going on.

I hope i havent wrote anything that cant be written on this board.

I also hope someone can give me answer on some of these questions. I believe some of the issues i have written about are indicators that asset stripping is not happening/not a plan.

but maybe im just naive....

[BuckyRover]

I don't think you are naive Puffsan. I don't believe we are being asset stripped, not intentionally by Venky's anyway.

[glen9mullan]

All I will say on the post on the LET, Rovers employed Anderson to get them a buyer, That pretty much blows a hole in the whole tale,

[BuckyRover]

All I will say on the post on the LET, Rovers employed Anderson to get them a buyer, That pretty much blows a hole in the whole tale,

There are many things wrong with that tale. I'm not saying everything is rosy but I don't think that "tale" is what we are looking for.

[snatchymcsnatch]

I don't think you are naive Puffsan. I don't believe we are being asset stripped, not intentionally by Venky's anyway.

But it's probably fair to say that somebody, somewhere, is making a sh11t load of money from this. I don't care if it's Anderson, Venkys or Donald bloody Trump they won't be getting another penny off me any time soon, not even at three games for twenty quid - must think we were born yesterday.

[glen9mullan]

There are many things wrong with that tale. I'm not saying everything is rosy but I don't think that "tale" is what we are looking for.

There is a lot of rumours, I have heard a lot of things which have been said in confidence by ex employee's and current employees and agents too, Then there is things which have been said by others to me who seemingly have good contacts and post on various message boards

Its all a massive jigsaw, but all "hear say" too and holds no water unless the person who first said it goes on record. I think its very un-wise for anyone to be putting rumours out there in text form unless they have on the record evidence. It does not matter if its true or false, unless the people spreading the rumours are eye witness's they will need deep pockets.

I have already been through this with an investigative journo over the summer, and although some of the stuff I put to him he confirmed, other things he denied and said held no water. He also said unless I provided him with the source of information then it was dead in the water, He also offered a one to one with Mrs Desai should I provide him with evidence or an eye witness.

He approached me after I did the "Puppet or Puppeteer" Blog

[philipl]

I keep coming back to the following simple sums.

2009/10, Rovers income £53m, Rovers spending £58m.

2010/11, Rovers income (guess) £50m, Venky's injection required by the Trust in the sale £15m so total cash coming in of £65m. Rovers spending would reduce by interest savings of around £1m through Venky's being required by the Trust to remove Rovers' existing overdraft so no new ocverdraft would be required unless expenditure rose by more than £8m.

So prima facie there was no need for the mortgage cover of £20m last season and similarly no need for the new mortgage cover of £100m this season.

What the heck is that mortgage-backed overdraft money being used for?

Then the Steve Kean payrise from £400k pa to £1.25m pa for being demonstrably by far the worst manager in the Premier League? What the heck is that all about?

[bestierover]

It is possible to legally dispose of assets. You own it, you can sell it. Keeping a company solvent is another matter.

[Puffsan]

norwegian pl studio covered stoke - rovers today. They were talking about rovers and one of the "experts" said that there was alot of things going on at rovers but because of stupid english defamation laws they couldn't say anything more. he said some day everything will come clear, but it could take 1 month, 1 year or even 10 years.

isn't there alot of news of the world journalists who are unemployed and are very good at getting information they are not supposed to get? maybe we should hire one of them instead of buying flowers.

[Steve Moss]

norwegian pl studio covered stoke - rovers today. They were talking about rovers and one of the "experts" said that there was alot of things going on at rovers but because of stupid english defamation laws they couldn't say anything more. he said some day everything will come clear, but it could take 1 month, 1 year or even 10 years.

isn't there alot of news of the world journalists who are unemployed and are very good at getting information they are not supposed to get? maybe we should hire one of them instead of buying flowers.

You need to get the story released in the USA by an American journalist that follows the PL. Or at least a country's who free speech laws are not based in a desire to preserve the reputations of the haves at the expense of the havenots' right to speak. England's free (or lack thereof) speech laws are a disgrace.

[bestierover]

The Yanks have quite a penchant for litigation.

[BuckyRover]

On the other hand a positive element is that we don't have people wandering around with "God hates ####" placards and the like.

Swings and roundabouts and all that

[Miker]

I keep coming back to the following simple sums.

2009/10, Rovers income £53m, Rovers spending £58m.

2010/11, Rovers income (guess) £50m, Venky's injection required by the Trust in the sale £15m so total cash coming in of £65m. Rovers spending would reduce by interest savings of around £1m through Venky's being required by the Trust to remove Rovers' existing overdraft so no new overdraft would be required unless expenditure rose by more than £8m.

So prima facie there was no need for the mortgage cover of £20m last season and similarly no need for the new mortgage cover of £100m this season.

What the heck is that mortgage-backed overdraft money being used for?

The thing is, we had a pre-exisitng debt of around 20 million... was this not covered by Venky's at time of sale? Would money have not gone towards that, especially as from memory a large chunk of debt was required to be paid by the end of the 2010/2011 season?

In 2010/2011 we made no player sales, yet we purchased Formica and Rochina in January and brought Jones and Santa Cruz on loan, who in all likelihood would have been fairly expensive loans in signing fees, agent fees and wages. This is in addition to the players already added onto the wage bill at the start of the season, such as Mame Diouf and Benjani.

Keep in mind that for any season, the biggest chunk of our income doesn't come until the end of the season... given we have to finance a wage bill of nearly 50 million, operating costs of 12 million, and transfer fees of 5-10 million (for that season) BEFORE receiving that chunk of income... surely it makes sense to use a bank loan to finance it beforehand? How else would they have paid for it?

[philipl]

The thing is, we had a pre-exisitng debt of around 20 million... was this not covered by Venky's at time of sale? Would money have not gone towards that, especially as from memory a large chunk of debt was required to be paid by the end of the 2010/2011 season?

In 2010/2011 we made no player sales, yet we purchased Formica and Rochina in January and brought Jones and Santa Cruz on loan, who in all likelihood would have been fairly expensive loans in signing fees, agent fees and wages. This is in addition to the players already added onto the wage bill at the start of the season, such as Mame Diouf and Benjani.

Keep in mind that for any season, the biggest chunk of our income doesn't come until the end of the season... given we have to finance a wage bill of nearly 50 million, operating costs of 12 million, and transfer fees of 5-10 million (for that season) BEFORE receiving that chunk of income... surely it makes sense to use a bank loan to finance it beforehand? How else would they have paid for it?

Venky's could not take control of Rovers without the exoisting overdraft being wiped out.

Therefore the money would not go towards that.

[Puffsan]

i have to admit that i don't really understand these defamation laws. In norway journalists have a right to protect their sources and is a basic principle in our free society and prerequisite for the press to fulfill its social mission and ensure access to essential information.

But i can kind of understand why these laws have been made in the uk. Some of your newspapers are utter rubbish

[Miker]

Venky's could not take control of Rovers without the exoisting overdraft being wiped out.

Therefore the money would not go towards that.

You haven't addressed the rest...

Even with a 15 million dollar injection, there still has to be some way to fund the expenses between January and July before the income comes in.

[philipl]

You haven't addressed the rest...

Even with a 15 million dollar injection, there still has to be some way to fund the expenses between January and July before the income comes in.

There is an interim payment from the Central Fund at the half way of the season.

[Miker]

There is an interim payment from the Central Fund at the half way of the season.

Which is why only a 20 million loan was needed... as that interim payment and the 15 million cash injection would have only covered half the expenses for the season.

[philipl]

Which is why only a 20 million loan was needed... as that interim payment and the 15 million cash injection would have only covered half the expenses for the season.

Have a look at the 2009/10 cash flow statement.

[Beta Ray Bill]

Would this theory or any of the even more ludicrous ones hold true if we'd actually performed on the pitch?

What if we'd have scored penalties awarded, defenders had defended properly, attackers hadn't made airshots, freekicks hadn't hit the woodwork, balls hadn't hit unsuspecting players on the arm in the 94th minute, etc etc

All of these would have made it much harder for us to get relegated and the clubs monies to go to agents/owners/mafia/aliens from the planet Zog.

Or are the players in on the conspiracy too?

Of course they aren't, they are trying to win matches, despite the way they're organised and lack of leadership from the bench.

Kean is still putting out what appears to be more or less the strongest team we have each week. Just because he can't get them to perform or organise them is his failing as a manager. It's not by design.

If he really was hell bent on getting us relegated so the club could get divvied up, then he'd be playing the reserves 'to freshen the team up', dropping Robbo because of 'family reasons affecting him', leaving out Hoilett and Samba for 'having their head turned', and so on. Even his often maligned substitutions could have seen u13s coming off the bench 'to give youth a chance' if he wanted to avoid winning.

We will be relegated because Kean is a dreadful manager first and foremost. Owners listening to the drivel he must spout, players not being consistent and having some bad luck have also contributed.

Crapness and ineptitude. Not corruption.

[bob fleming]

Crapness and ineptitude. Not corruption.

Yeah, course it is Bill. Another apologist for the unexplainable. "They're just right naive".

OK everyone, nothing to worry about, everyone calm down, it's not corruption at all, they're just clueless. Kin smashing. Everyone carry on sitting on their hands. Give the clown another pay rise. The poor bull$hitter has been really unlucky recently, they're really trying hard and everything.

One league win in 18 isn't it??!! What the (Please don't use that word again) is going on??!!

I look forward to January and more crap signings and bull$hit, but hey, Stevies putting out his best team isn't he? A shame those pesky agents fees clouded his judgement. Or maybe they don't.

[Beta Ray Bill]

I think you misunderstand.

There may be something dodgy about transfer deals and links to agents, but if the masterplan is to get relegated and then have a 'legitimate' reason to dispose of every asset at the club for whatever reason and to pay whichever set of puppet masters behind the scenes, then there is a major flaw in that plan.

If we got results it wouldn't work.

As it happens, our results have been dreadful but they might not have been. If Kean was under orders to send us down, then he would have had to take out the variable element - the players.

Only 1 regular (or 2 if you include the other Jones) has departed. Recruitment of a range of players took place, of varying quality admittedly, but all managers have signed a mixed bag. Who on here was absolutely against Dann? How many didn't see Yakubu as improving the front line? Why bother signing them if the ultimate aim was relegation? It would have been a lot easier to let them slip through the net because you never know, they might have played well enough to get us some points.

Or is the conspiracy so well crafted that you do things that could equally look at home in any other transfer window and run the risk of not being relegated as a cover?

Would you suggest the more radical team selections I mentioned were Plan B, but Kean's uselessness has avoided that need? Or maybe let's build on the conspiracy and say the players are going to get relegation bonuses if they make it look like they generally try but ultimately fail.

Maybe Robbo only followed the script to a point at Wigan, and after being at fault for 2 goals got a pang of guilt. And Yakubu thought blazing the ball into the fans would have been too obvious and just had to score.

You talk about unexplainable... Arthur C Clarke would struggle with this one.