[Archived] FA Cup - Newcastle v Rovers: Preview

[DE.]

The Trust underinvested hugely in the playing squad, no doubt about that. Luckily for them they invested correctly when need be at management/board level and that was enough to keep us chugging along. Once Allardyce left the club (which could have been fairly soon even under the Trust) I think the wheels would have fallen off. Get the feeling we would have done another Ince and tried to appoint a young up-and-coming manager on the cheap which would have ended in disaster.

Not to this scale, mind. Venky's have not only accelerated the process but they've enhanced the problem.

[rovermagic]

It is no coincidence that three Lancashire clubs are bottom of Prem. Rev is right. The logic of it is when your income is very small and you are in the Prem year after year, your wage bill balloons on players who are average and past it. Your net transfer market spend becomes -£8m per year - think about it : Shearer, Duff, Bentley, Santa Cruz, P Jones. To stay up year on year you need gate + sponsorship income of a good £10m per year more than ours. The size of Everton, Sunderland, Newcastle. The trouble is you take such big hit going down that you wind up in League One - Charlton, Coventry. I really dislike the Venkys. And feel the pain every week. Especially our unfit side always conceding at the close. But only a £10m or more net investment per year can keep a club like ours long-term in the Prem.

[Mattyblue]

Can't agree Rev.

There is nothing between the sides in the bottom half of the league, with a management team of JW and Sam Allardyce, BRFC would have been mid table plodders for many a year to come.

The Trust have a lot to answer for- the main thing being selling the club to the first bunch of clowns to stump up the cash. The complete collapse of the club in a year WAS avoidable and would not have been inevitable under the previous owners.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Can't agree Rev.

There is nothing between the sides in the bottom half of the league, with a management team of JW and Sam Allardyce, BRFC would have been mid table plodders for many a year to come.

The Trust have a lot to answer for- the main thing being selling the club to the first bunch of clowns to stump up the cash. The complete collapse of the club in a year WAS avoidable and would not have been inevitable under the previous owners.

I think that we were slowly dying (or at least decaying) under The Trust. There were rumblings of discontent from Allardyce and I think that there has to be a doubt that he would have put up with The Trust's lack of interest and ridiculous parsimony for much longer. Likewise I wonder if Williams was becoming a bit fed up with it all.

Where we agree is on their sale of the club to Venkys. I wonder if they would have sold to Ali Syed if they had believed he could stump up the cash that they wanted? As it was, they took the first offer that satisfied their avarice and got the hell out of Dodge.

They should be ashamed of themselves. I doubt that they are.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Parsonblue's match report is published to the front page here.

[Parsonblue]

Like so many others I can't agree with Rev on this issue. The simple fact is the Trust, and I agree that their support in terms of money was not great in the later years, provided ten years of Premier League football. In other words they oversaw the longest run of top flight football since 1936.

The only people responsible for the present mess are the Rao family. Nobody held a gun to their head to buy they club. They bought it for their own reasons, one suspects purely commerical, and relied on the advice of agents etc. The fact that they didn't do their homework properly and now find that they don't have the resources to fund it in the way its needs funding is purely down to them. The fact that they got rid of the people who could make a club like the Rovers work on a limited budget - Williams, Finn, Pincher, Goodman, Allardyce - is purely down to them.

After ten years the Trust wanted to sell. I don't have a problem with that. The Rao family bought it and gave certain assurances to shareholders at the time. Unfortunately, instead of listening to the people on the ground at Ewood who knew what was needed to allow the club to function at this level they listened to their own advisors and we are now in a mess both on and off the pitch.

With regard to Kean's signings I'm afraid I can't agree with Rev on that one either. Watching Petrovic, Goodwillie, Vukcevic, Rochina and Formica yesterday I really do fear for us in the Championship.

[DP]

Been a while since I've posted but for once a reasonable debate.

No doubt the Trust left us up sh*t creek because they sold us to the Venkys. We were lead to believe at the time (and quite rightly) that the Trust would only sell us to buyer's who would be able to handle and manage the day to day running of a premier league club. They chose Venkys and got it horribly wrong. It has been said, by some of my Indian contacts, that Venkys are merely using Rovers as a means to 'wash some of their laundry'(disclaimer, I have no proof of this) and as they really don't seem to care you have to fear the worst for our club's future.

The Walker Trust may have kept a tight ship in the last few years but we had an excellent management platform in place and some terrific youngsters on our books mainly thanks to Mark Hughes and his team. I think as long as JW and TF would have stayed in charge we certainly would have lasted a few more years regardless who the manger was as they would have acted quickly if things were going wrong (as they are now). The talk of needing 100 mill is laughable.

Not sure I agree with Rev about Kean's signings either, especially given he let his best signing (J Jones) slip through his fingers over the summer. Too many players in the hole, and a central midfieler with the grace of Nzonzi and the pace of Dunn to compliment our 2 aging 'creative' midfielders. But to be honest, we won't know how good any of our new signings are until we have a decent manager and coaching team who can get them all fit, motivated, and organised.

We could almost plan for relegation now but the problem is we still have the current regime in charge which is even scarier than the prospect of relegation itself.

and yes, the Walker Trust has to take a huge share of the blame for this.

[den]

Ah, it's just Rev trying to defend his stance on JW, Sam and the trustees being evil. While his stance was always to defend the Raos and Kean.

"Only Goodwillie for me looks completely out of his depth". C'mon Rev!

Horse, wrong, backing.

[yoda's brother]

It's all about opinions.

To me two key points are, firstly, Jack's intention was for the club to become self financing and not constantly reliant on 'investment' - why the hell should they have been expected to keep financing from hard earned family money ? Part of the investment was in The Academy which has recently borne some rich fruit. Secondly, wise and efficient management meant that, as Williams said many times, we punched above our weight.

Once Venky's bought the club, virtually all the expertise, experience etc was sacked. Whose responsibility is that ?

Let's get one thing straight, 2009/10 we finished top ten, when Sam was sacked, we were around the same and I think we would have been 7th or 8th other than that last minute winner for Bolton. So, whether transfer funds have been tight for years or not, the simple truth is that we more than held our own for years under the Walker Trust, following Jack's death, including Carling Cup glory and European ventures.

Only one party, IMO, has screwed-up and that is the clowns from India.

So those with personal agendas like Revidge Blue seems to have, need to put them aside and think back to the rainy days when we were rock bottom of the old Third and playing the likes of Halifax and Mansfield. As things stand, that's back where we are heading, IMV.

+1M

[Waggy76]

Strangely enough he (or whoever is recruiting for him) has recruited a lot better than Sam and his contacts imo - Rochina could be absolutely top class handled correctly imo, Formica is decent enough, Jermaine Jones ultimately proved a huge success whilst he was here and Yakubu for 1.5m must be the best piece of transfer business for many a year. Considering we have been shopping at the lower end of the market we haven't done badly at all. Only Goodwillie for me looks completely out of his depth.

I will give you J Jones and the Yak ....The rest are championship at best ................The poor signings in the last 2 windows have contributed in no small way , to our present predicament !!!

[aletheia]

After a year in charge now, I think it's fair to say that Kean is a significant part of the problem, he hasn't proved good enough.

Strangely enough he (or whoever is recruiting for him) has recruited a lot better than Sam and his contacts imo - Rochina could be absolutely top class handled correctly imo, Formica is decent enough, Jermaine Jones ultimately proved a huge success whilst he was here and Yakubu for 1.5m must be the best piece of transfer business for many a year. Considering we have been shopping at the lower end of the market we haven't done badly at all. Only Goodwillie for me looks completely out of his depth.

The over-riding reason for us being in the position we're in though is that there's been no net investment in the squad for the past eight or nine years or so. I used to argue with John Williams years ago that failing to strengthen would have only one eventual outcome and that's where we're at now. The blame for that situation primarily lies with the Walker Trust, they left the squad in such a sorry state that relegation would have been inevitable sooner rather than later, although some poor decision making by Venky's undoubtedly seems to have accelerated the process a year or two. It needed whoever succeeded the Trustees to spend around 100m in one lump to bring the squad back up to speed and The Raos don't appear to have either the pockets or inclination to do that.

Oddly enough, having made imo one or two decent acquisitions we're only a quality midfield destroyer, a specialist left back and maybe another decent striker to partner Yakubu away from being a good side - the balance clearly isn't quite there at the moment.

Overall the situation does look extremely bleak, with a wage bill running at roughly 85% of turnover John Williams and the Walker Trustees didn't set up a scenario designed to bounce back in the event of relegation. Where that model failed is you ultimately can't expect to finish 9th or 10th simply by paying the 9th or tenth highest wages you also need to be 9th or tenth in terms of transfer fees spent as well. If you are bottom of the transfer spend table with a nil or negative outlay ultimately you will run out of quality and in the meantime refusal to replace means you get sucked into a vicious and never ending cycle of wage increases for ageing underperformers such as MGP, Dunn, Nelsen, Roberts, Salgado etc.

No matter what happens in the long run, I'll still be there, it's still my Club no matter who the owners are or what division we're in although it's a crying shame to see Jack's legacy dwindle away primarily due to lack of interest from his own family.

I disagree with the tenor of all this.

First, on a simple level, I don't believe the recent transfer dealings have been better than previously. Others have pointed out several times the woeful indadequacy of recent additions and the influence of agents.

More importantly, whilst the businesss model was always precarious in the past, I strongly disagree that relegation was inevitable. Smart managing on and off the field, smart transfer dealing and smart youth policy could see us through. Yes it was never easy, you have to keep pulling rabbits out of the hat (Benny, RSC)and avoid silly mistakes you can't afford (Grabbi). But then you hope to keep bringing up a talent (Jones etc).

The Raos have obliterated our model - precarious it may have been but there was sound intelligence driving it. I know where I'd rather be at the moment.

Edit I do agree that the Trust lost interest and underinvested.

[Silencio]

Strangely enough he (or whoever is recruiting for him) has recruited a lot better than Sam and his contacts imo - Rochina could be absolutely top class handled correctly imo, Formica is decent enough, Jermaine Jones ultimately proved a huge success whilst he was here and Yakubu for 1.5m must be the best piece of transfer business for many a year. Considering we have been shopping at the lower end of the market we haven't done badly at all. Only Goodwillie for me looks completely out of his depth.

I will give you J Jones and the Yak ....The rest are championship at best ................The poor signings in the last 2 windows have contributed in no small way , to our present predicament !!!

I think with the right manager Rochina would be good enough but Kean isn't and never has been the right manager. Shame people like Rev didn't realise this sooner and we could maybe have had him out before the Rao's totally lost interest.

[Devon Rover]

This is complete bunkum. They can afford it, they just don't want to spend it.

Sorry, yes, tired wine-affected brain!

They clearly have cash somewhere but it ain't over here and there is zero will to put it into BRFC. Venkys are affectively leaving Rovers as unable to afford to sack Kean by starving it of cash and leaving it vulnerable to Barclays through a build-up of debt. The Rao family clearly can afford to sack Kean but don't want to spend their money that way. Thats their choice but therefore its their folly and, hopefully, their downfall.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The Trust have a lot to answer for- the main thing being selling the club to the first bunch of clowns to stump up the cash. The complete collapse of the club in a year WAS avoidable and would not have been inevitable under the previous owners.

As I understand did the Trust employ Jerome Anderson to help sell (to anybody!) the club?...inexcusable and damn right dangerous imo.

[ABBEY]

What happened with peds n Karl pilkington

[neophox]

Did you think we would beat Bolton and West Brom at Home? Stoke at home? Did you think we would get anything at Sunderland and Stoke away. Did you think we would beat Wigan away. Haven't you learnt yet that other sides in this league are better than us whilst we are managed by someone who is not up to the job.

You think we are going to get half as many points in 3 games than we have achieved all season in 20 games.

I don't know how old you are Pitty and if you have properly experienced relegation yet but start accepting it now. It will make it easier. The squad is barely good enough to stop up. Under Kean, The Slumdogs and Hewhocannotbenamed, we have no chance.

Did YOU think we would beat Arsenal at home and Manchester U away?

We seem to win when no one thinks and lose when we seems to win.

I think we should all support our team now because apparently Kean won't be sacked.

Tunnelvision at the moment.

[m1st]

Don't forget that the FA cup this season is sponsored by budweiser so awaiting Kean's excuse that somebody spiked the result

Only just reading the last few pages of this thread and felt that this ought to have a attached to it. Brilliant post, perthblue02.

[Makey11]

What happened with peds n Karl pilkington

He wasnt happy with rochina going off and negative tactical change and made kean aware of this, and aparently had an argument with him again 2 mins from end on touch line when supposedly kean told the team to throw the match.

[yoda]

He wasnt happy with rochina going off and negative tactical change and made kean aware of this, and aparently had an argument with him again 2 mins from end on touch line when supposedly kean told the team to throw the match.

I wonder if in cocco land he is trying to force the Raos to dip in their pockets in the transfer window by spiking results,

he must have forgot that he previously talked them into beliving we would finish top 10 with the current squad

[philipl]

Another forfeit?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Another forfeit?

Welcome back Phillip. You been on holiday ? Dark side of the moon ok this time of year ?

[Mercer]

He wasnt happy with rochina going off and negative tactical change and made kean aware of this, and aparently had an argument with him again 2 mins from end on touch line when supposedly kean told the team to throw the match.

Astonishing claim - any proof ?

[Stuart]

He wasnt happy with rochina going off and negative tactical change and made kean aware of this, and aparently had an argument with him again 2 mins from end on touch line when supposedly kean told the team to throw the match.

Even by Kean's standards I can't believe he told the team to throw the match.

It beggars belief - even for him. There is obviously no proof otherwise there would be an FA investigation as it would have to fall into the "bringing the game into disrepute" category.

[King Kenny's Magic]

Astonishing claim - any proof ?

If only Gamst would come out and back that up! He'd go down for that. Even with no money changing hands it would damage the integrity of football. Typical Coco. Typical Wanky's sorry Venky's.

[Makey11]

Astonishing claim - any proof ?

No proof hence the word "supposedly", alot of rumours going around that that was what it was all about. Would take something serious for pedersen to lose his rag tho... Must be one of the calmest n most laid back people in history!