[Archived] Venky's willing to sell?

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

I am astounded by the content of much of what I am reading on this thread. Premiership football is a billionaires game these days let alone a millionaires game therefore anyone taking over the Club needs to have very deep pockets indeed if we are to prosper.

Any talk of Glen Mullen/Wayne Wild/Brag/a fans consortium/ taking over the Club is complete pie in the sky. Even if hypothetically fifteen thousand fans could be persuaded to stump up say 2k each for the initial 30m to buy out the Rao's what happens after that? 5m trading loss to cover - that'll be another 333 quid each please. We need a 10m striker - 666 quid each. The Bank have decided we have to pay off the rest of the overdraft - that's another 500 quid each. It ain't happening, most fans now begrudge paying more than 300 quid for a Premiership season ticket!. Plus how would any decisions ever be made with 15000 interested stakeholders?

The two Ians I know nothing about but popular consensus seems to be that they have contacts with extremely rich people/groups so

interest from them sems potentially more viable and less likely to be an ego trip.

I'm not sure what he point of the latest protests are exactly. Have the protestors got suitably rich and definite new owners already lined up? If not, what is it they want? Naffing off the Rao's so much they just was their hands of it and walk away leaving us with errr...... nothing? The latest accounts suggest we need very substantial cash injections from the current owners indeed. I've no objection to efforts being made to find long term new owners who can or will "invest" (throw money away) more money in the Club than the current owners but in the short term it seems to be more sensible to massage the egos of the current owners and try to ensure they meet their liablilities rather than drive them away.

Any talk of us needing to go down to move forward is just plain nuts and anyone suggesting that has no credibility whatsoever in my eyes.

I just want to clarify your position, Rev:

1. Running the Club on a financially sustainable basis is pure pie in the sky

2. In the event a fan-based organization could take over the club, that there would be the same organizational structure as under Venkys and thousands of shareholders would be voting on all daily goings on at the club

3. Prospering to you means bleeding millions every year and relying on heavy outside investment to maintain league status

4. Rovers will not end up relegated under the Venkys/Kean at some point in the near future

As it stands right now, your £5m trading loss would be covered by increasing debt, freezing out and valuable and long serving senior first team players from the squad, treating them like garbage and paying them off to leave, or ridding the Club of "unnecessary" senior management infrastructure. £10m striker? In your dreams. Even thousands of shareholders would make decisions faster than Venkys do -

It is very dismissive of you all to react in such a way without even know the particulars - perhaps actually waiting to see it before passing judgement would be a more prudent approach?

[Tom]

Daniel

You say we are all dismissive of it but brfcs is just a cross section of fans views, does that not sort of imply that people are right to be doubtful seeing as most people here seem to be?

I haven't seen any posts criticising someone coming up with an idea just the chances of seeing it through.

[gumboots]

I just want to clarify your position, Rev:

1. Running the Club on a financially sustainable basis is pure pie in the sky

2. In the event a fan-based organization could take over the club, that there would be the same organizational structure as under Venkys and thousands of shareholders would be voting on all daily goings on at the club

3. Prospering to you means bleeding millions every year and relying on heavy outside investment to maintain league status

4. Rovers will not end up relegated under the Venkys/Kean at some point in the near future

As it stands right now, your £5m trading loss would be covered by increasing debt, freezing out and valuable and long serving senior first team players from the squad, treating them like garbage and paying them off to leave, or ridding the Club of "unnecessary" senior management infrastructure. £10m striker? In your dreams. Even thousands of shareholders would make decisions faster than Venkys do -

It is very dismissive of you all to react in such a way without even know the particulars - perhaps actually waiting to see it before passing judgement would be a more prudent approach?

The point is that the whole thing grinds to a halt without going into detail if you require a significant number of fans to put their hands in their pockets and come up with £1000 or even £200 because most of us don't have that kind of spare cash to commit to something - we work to budgets where sometimes finding £20 to spare for new shoes for the kids is a major headache - and I'm a relatively well paid professional. The money is simply not available in this area and although you are talking worldwide fans, we're not Man Utd or whoever - we have a small number of loyal fans across the globe but the majority of them are family people who are also facing hard times. If you're asking for cash, some of us could find some, but most of us couldn't. doesn't matter how you dress up your proposal, unless someone is coming up with a significant sum for starters, then it's no chance.

[ABBEY]

I can't afford a bovril at the moment let alone buy us.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

You said it. I just pointed it out.

What's your cut out of this ?

That is really surprising to hear coming from a site admin. I think I've stated already many many times that this is not the case. My cut? Cut of what? How much more open and honest and throwing myself out there can a guy be? I honestly think that this idea, or a form/combination of it is the only way forward for the Club in the event of relegation.

If we survive this year, no one will be happier than me (Well maybe Steve Kean - Bad joke?? Bad taste??) but in my very humble opinion it will be delaying the inevitable under the current ownership. I would love to be proven wrong!

[broadsword]

I wonder what the average salary in Blackburn is?

[PAFELL]

An alternative view of things and forgetting the whole WW relegation issue.....

The notion of X amount of fans putting in £X of cash to buy the club is one thing. For the same X amount of fans to stump up £X amount every so often to fund the running of the club is pushing things.

However.....

How much would each and every one of you give to see Rovers away from the clutches of Venky's and have a say in any potential new owner? What i am saying is, would it be unrealistic to ask for X amount of fans to stump up £X of cash to assume control and have a say in the sale/gift to a more viable new owner. One which could be infinately richer than a fans group and maybe richer than some Indian chicken farmers. Would you give say £500 to rid the club of Venky's and simply write off that outlay for a say in where the club went from there? Because the club could be given away for free if owned by the fans. I would seriously think about it if i thought i could have some input into a new owner and the personnel they might appoint on the board.

To me it is not as simple as that. In the light of things today. I am wondering when was this plan hatched. The document it self must have took time to put together. The thinking behind it, the compiling of it etc.

Because it calls into question the whole notion / motive of the protests in the first place. Was this plan the idea all along for SOME people? No way of knowing for me. No proof for most of us either way. When a certain agent on sky suggested there were other reasons why there were protests. We all thought he was on about racial stuff. But it could have been this plan. How do we know, after all we are just supporters.

I was asked today, why am I being cynical. Until things are clarified, who can blame anybody for being cynical?

[gumboots]

I wonder what the average salary in Blackburn is?

Most in Blackburn don't get salaries - they get wages. How much often depends on demand for work and how much overtime they can get.

[Tom]

In 2009:

Average income per year: £18,700 (the 8th lowest in the UK)

Also bare in mind that of our 16k or so season tickets, quite a few of these will be people in joint households ie couples and families with a few tickets.

We would have to rely on overseas fans etc

I'm by no means saying it's impossible but a stretch at best.

Like I said if someone could buy half or more then it could be more achievable.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Daniel

You say we are all dismissive of it but brfcs is just a cross section of fans views, does that not sort of imply that people are right to be doubtful seeing as most people here seem to be?

I haven't seen any posts criticising someone coming up with an idea just the chances of seeing it through.

Here's one, and it's not alone:

Ste B, on 12 February 2012 - 20:11 PM, said:

You said it. I just pointed it out.

What's your cut out of this ?

However, I see your point. Of course for me, it is a natural reaction, I'm just a guy who love Rovers who none of you actually know personally, and probably wouldn't want to at this point. I'm very sorry to have put myself out there like that. It is well known that web forums are not a statistically relevant cross section of any population. Whether that supports or refute either your position or mine is up for discussion.

[RevidgeBlue]

I just want to clarify your position, Rev:

1. Running the Club on a financially sustainable basis is pure pie in the sky

2. In the event a fan-based organization could take over the club, that there would be the same organizational structure as under Venkys and thousands of shareholders would be voting on all daily goings on at the club

3. Prospering to you means bleeding millions every year and relying on heavy outside investment to maintain league status

4. Rovers will not end up relegated under the Venkys/Kean at some point in the near future

As it stands right now, your £5m trading loss would be covered by increasing debt, freezing out and valuable and long serving senior first team players from the squad, treating them like garbage and paying them off to leave, or ridding the Club of "unnecessary" senior management infrastructure. £10m striker? In your dreams. Even thousands of shareholders would make decisions faster than Venkys do -

It is very dismissive of you all to react in such a way without even know the particulars - perhaps actually waiting to see it before passing judgement would be a more prudent approach?

I don't really understand your post but we have rarely if ever managed to trade at anything other than a loss in the recent past and that is with a nil or negative net spend on players so that would suggest to me that in an ideal world we need the assistance of a philanthropic benefactor to survive in the Premiership.

Obviously you could never guarantee not to be relegated under any manager or ownership. Conversely a quick glance at the Trust document appears to reveal the deeply flawed assumption that if relegated we would only spend a maximum of two seasons in the Championship. How can you guarantee that exactly?

Finally you seem to contradict yourself by believing it is possible to run at a profit on the one hand yet being critical of offloading ageing overpaid non contributing players on the other. And the point about the 10m player is that even if the supporters did somehow manage to purchase the club the subsequent calls on their finances would be never ending. It would be a new stiker one week, pay the bank of the next, pay the latest installment of x's transfer fee etc. etc.

Like I said complete pie in the sky. In my opinion of course.

[Tom]

Here's one, and it's not alone:

Ste B, on 12 February 2012 - 20:11 PM, said:

You said it. I just pointed it out.

What's your cut out of this ?

However, I see your point. Of course for me, it is a natural reaction, I'm just a guy who love Rovers who none of you actually know personally, and probably wouldn't want to at this point. I'm very sorry to have put myself out there like that. It is well known that web forums are not a statistically relevant cross section of any population. Whether that supports or refute either your position or mine is up for discussion.

Don't be silly mate none of this is a personal slight and you have to be appluaded for putting together a very professional and orginal idea, one which would work at Liverpool etc but in Blackburn it may be tougher.

If I had £1000 spare I'd be up for it myself, sadly that isn't the case

[PAFELL]

That is really surprising to hear coming from a site admin. I think I've stated already many many times that this is not the case. My cut? Cut of what? How much more open and honest and throwing myself out there can a guy be? I honestly think that this idea, or a form/combination of it is the only way forward for the Club in the event of relegation.

If we survive this year, no one will be happier than me (Well maybe Steve Kean - Bad joke?? Bad taste??) but in my very humble opinion it will be delaying the inevitable under the current ownership. I would love to be proven wrong!

One stipulation of the plan is that Rovers are relegated YOU CAN SHOVE THAT IDEA. for the simple reason that the initiative could not otherwise afford what Venkys would be asking, AND that Venkys more than likely would not sell if Rovers are still in the Premiership come the end of May. To then translate that into Wayne or BRAG actually wanting Rovers relegated is the most ridiculous and misguided leap of logic I have heard in a while. You guys make Riversiders seem like a bunch of utopian optimists!

IF THE CLUB NEEDS TO BE RELEGATED FOR THIS PLAN TO BE FEESIBLE. IT MEANS THERE IS NO MONEY TO PROGREE THE CLUB FURTHER

This was a paragraph from your post. The bit underlined was my comments on it. They may not WANT the club to be relegated. But it would be IDEAL for them if it happens.

[Paul]

I wonder what the average salary in Blackburn is?

I'd suggest £1000 might represent a month's pay for many. I sit in the JW and around me a lot of folk look like pensioners. Not me I hasten to add.

I could raise £1000. Would I? I'd have to discuss it with SWMBO. I wouldn't be over confident.......getting a new bike is hard enough!!

[Ste B]

Here's one, and it's not alone:

Ste B, on 12 February 2012 - 20:11 PM, said:

You said it. I just pointed it out.

What's your cut out of this ?

However, I see your point. Of course for me, it is a natural reaction, I'm just a guy who love Rovers who none of you actually know personally, and probably wouldn't want to at this point. I'm very sorry to have put myself out there like that. It is well known that web forums are not a statistically relevant cross section of any population. Whether that supports or refute either your position or mine is up for discussion.

It's a fair question to ask who gets what out of any deal. If you get nowt then fair play to you.

However I think the idea has no legs as there ain't much money round here. Unless somebody puts 51 percent down and effectively rubs the club for half price..

[PAFELL]

In 2009:

Average income per year: £18,700 (the 8th lowest in the UK)

Also bare in mind that of our 16k or so season tickets, quite a few of these will be people in joint households ie couples and families with a few tickets.

We would have to rely on overseas fans etc

I'm by no means saying it's impossible but a stretch at best.

Like I said if someone could buy half or more then it could be more achievable.

Average income is even lower on the south east coast. with high property rents and values.

[rovers11]

Whether people think this is a viable idea or not, everyone involved in producing the document and striving to reach contact with the club deserves a massive pat on the back. I really admire people that don't just sit back and complain but actually try and do something positive about improving the problem.

Well done to all involved.

[Ste B]

Now if you could get venkys to do this via a supporters trust whilst still in the prem and its one person one vote then it would get interesting. Would that work ?

[Majiball]

Here's one, and it's not alone:

Ste B, on 12 February 2012 - 20:11 PM, said:

You said it. I just pointed it out.

What's your cut out of this ?

However, I see your point. Of course for me, it is a natural reaction, I'm just a guy who love Rovers who none of you actually know personally, and probably wouldn't want to at this point. I'm very sorry to have put myself out there like that. It is well known that web forums are not a statistically relevant cross section of any population. Whether that supports or refute either your position or mine is up for discussion.

FFS it's not personal.

Bloody humanists (again that's not a dig at you I just humanists hard to get on with). If you float an idea people will dissect it and critic it, if you can't deal with it don't float idea's.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

To me it is not as simple as that. In the light of things today. I am wondering when was this plan hatched. The document it self must have took time to put together. The thinking behind it, the compiling of it etc.

Because it calls into question the whole notion / motive of the protests in the first place. Was this plan the idea all along for SOME people? No way of knowing for me. No proof for most of us either way. When a certain agent on sky suggested there were other reasons why there were protests. We all thought he was on about racial stuff. But it could have been this plan. How do we know, after all we are just supporters.

I was asked today, why am I being cynical. Until things are clarified, who can blame anybody for being cynical?

To put that thought quickly to bed, PAFELL, and to everyone else out there having thoughts along these lines - Here is the plain truth. Remember when I came on here and was introducing the proposal document I put together that initial required insane amounts of cash to create an investment fund that could sustain Rovers indefinitely?

Well this is a heavily reduced and modified version of the plan that I have worked on with Wayne over the past couple of weeks that would enable a supporters-based organization to buy the club if the worst happened (i.e. relegation or administration) and simply is a plan to save Rovers in the event that these horrendous things came to pass.

I have done extensive research into the last decade of the Club's accounts, and produced the proposal based on this research. I would venture to say that I know the Club's accounts as well as anyone who does not have inside access.

Let's not get carried away here - How could and why would a hundred or so protesters and Wayne have any chance of doing what you say? Much more far fetched than this proposal is, I can tell you.

I created the original concept in a weekend. Writing the proposal took another week. This of course doesn't take into account my already ongoing studies of the Club's accounts over the years, but in effect it was created in a week. Ironically enough what set me off was JA's stupefying interview and subsequent statement on SEM's website. I have been working on it ever since, so for about a month now since it was born, on nights and weekends.

[blue_n_white99]

Whether people think this is a viable idea or not, everyone involved in producing the document and striving to reach contact with the club deserves a massive pat on the back. I really admire people that don't just sit back and complain but actually try and do something positive about improving the problem.

Well done to all involved.

Well said. I salute all who are prepared to try something to alleviate the current shambles the club is in. Will it be difficult to achieve, absolutely. Will people whinge about it, absolutely. Would it be an improvement on the current regime, absolutely.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

FFS it's not personal.

Bloody humanists (again that's not a dig at you I just humanists hard to get on with). If you float an idea people will dissect it and critic it, if you can't deal with it don't float idea's.

I would love constructive criticism. But this was not a critique. I can handle criticism, especially if it is intelligent and based on something substantial. These kinds of responses are not, especially when the thing hasn't even been announced yet!

Well said. I salute all who are prepared to try something to alleviate the current shambles the club is in. Will it be difficult to achieve, absolutely. Will people whinge about it, absolutely. Would it be an improvement on the current regime, absolutely.

Indeed.

Very Difficult, yes.

Whingeing - expected.

Improvement - not even a shadow of a doubt.

[gumboots]

FFS it's not personal.

Bloody humanists (again that's not a dig at you I just humanists hard to get on with). If you float an idea people will dissect it and critic it, if you can't deal with it don't float idea's.

Actually in a wayit is personal because it was suggested by this guy that if we didn't think the idea would work, then we were somehow being supernagative and not really prepared to support the club. Well if that's not personal from someone who just joined this forum and knows nothing of the personal circumstances of any of us, then what is. I don't think most are against the idea of fans actually part owning a club - it happens all over the place - but to suggest that we could in any way sustain a club even at championship level without huge external investment seems to be very naive. to start with you'd have to rebuild the management infrastructure and even with a streamlined model that would cost a pretty penny as we can't afford people who are learning on the job. We've seen what happens when you gut a club, and try to staff it on the cheap.

[RevidgeBlue]

I would love constructive criticism. But this was not a critique. I can handle criticism, especially if it is intelligent and based on something substantial. These kinds of responses are not, especially when the thing hasn't even been announced yet!

So let's assume for a minute the Rao's are prepared to let the Club go for nothing or for a 13m loss at the price of 10m and you can find 10,000 Rovers fans willing to pay 1k for the initial purchase of the Club.

How does the Club finance itself thereafter?

[K-Hod]

It is a nice idea tbf, but I don't think it's feasible, even if funds were raised to purchase the club.

We simply don't have the fanbase to make it viable.