[Archived] Venky's willing to sell?

[47er]

So if we don't wet our pants over every half-cocked idea we are ungrateful, hypocritical doomsayers?

Yep-that's exactly what he was saying!

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329080921[/url]' post='1225136']

A fan's takeover would be horrendous, just imagine how many ITK's there would be!

The dream would be to stay in the Prem and for the Venky lot to do one. With the TV money, a good manager and much lower wages the club could be self-sufficient. For anyone at Rovers to be on £60k, like Samba, is ridiculous. I bet the wages at Swansea and Norwich are less than half the £60m a year that are spent at Rovers. I think Blackpools wage budget was about £15m in their season in the Prem and without Hoillets last minute goal at home against them they probs would have stayed up. It can be done with the right people involved.

With a really good manager, a good squad unity, a good club culture, and a group of supportive, knowledagble, and owning fans, there is no reason why this is not achievable. IF we go down, we can restructure, still maintain a division leading wage budget and try to do what we did last time we went down from the PL. We have a squad of young players to build on with good potential, and with the right leadership, and mix of a few good senior players, a quick return, and another good ten years of PL football is not out of the question.

[Amo]

Fans shouldn't own football clubs. Too many know-it-alls. Just look at this forum.

[47er]

One stipulation of the plan is that Rovers are relegated YOU CAN SHOVE THAT IDEA. for the simple reason that the initiative could not otherwise afford what Venkys would be asking, AND that Venkys more than likely would not sell if Rovers are still in the Premiership come the end of May. To then translate that into Wayne or BRAG actually wanting Rovers relegated is the most ridiculous and misguided leap of logic I have heard in a while. You guys make Riversiders seem like a bunch of utopian optimists!

IF THE CLUB NEEDS TO BE RELEGATED FOR THIS PLAN TO BE FEESIBLE. IT MEANS THERE IS NO MONEY TO PROGREE THE CLUB FURTHER

This was a paragraph from your post. The bit underlined was my comments on it. They may not WANT the club to be relegated. But it would be IDEAL for them if it happens.

But if you see it as a contingency plan in the liklihood (?) that we will go down it won't seem so duplicitous Pafell.

[Doug]

Fans shouldn't own football clubs. Too many know-it-alls. Just look at this forum.

Uncle Jack did!

[Amo]

Uncle Jack did!

Fans as a group.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329080244[/url]' post='1225129']

Thanks for the reply Dan. I will have to agree to disagree with you on the feasibility of it all. By your own admission the WT ran up a loss of 9m over 6 years and I know for a fact JW considered that expenses had been pared down to an absolute minimum and in my view expenditure on players during the period was woefully inadequate.

All that would still leave a further 9m for a supporters conglomerate to find and in my opinion the Bank would look at a such an arrangement extremely unfavourably in terms of credit facilities.

Ok, that is fair enough. But during that period we brought in Hughes as manager, Samba, Roque Santa Cruz, Bentley, Benny (good in the beginning!), and Oijer just off the top of my head, and we were a very solid team. JW was and is very astute, but having done the research, I know that he was operating outside of a strict wage budget in the sense that he juggled trading activity and the wage bill with league position assumptions. Based on that, I am sure he felt that he had paired down wage costs as much as he could.

Also we are forgeting the other side, which is turnover. This can and should be increased as well. Currently we are performing very badly in sponsorship and commercial areas, mainly due to Venkys mismanagement, again. Not only have they alienated major sponsors and commercial entities, but we don't have a paying shirt sponsor, and our gates are falling off alarmingly. Plus, Venkys are taking up a ridiculous amount of ad space that could be generating revenue instead.

Just saying that a thorough analysis of the accounts and opportunities need to be made before a judgement is made.

[47er]

I see this plan as worse as our current regime without a shadow of a doubt.

Speechless after that one!

[Majiball]

If the protests can't be responsible for relegation then how are the fans being manipulated? All too easy to have a go at people who care. We all agree that its just about impossible to make a profit out of Rovers so where's the vested interest?

I think Glen and his associates are becoming the new Wilcox or Andrews.

As I said your missing the point.

[PAFELL]

Pafell, I think there's a very real chance of us being relegated,especially after Saturday. How many leads is this manager going to throw away? If we are relegated, there must be a reasonable chance of the Raos sleep-walking us into administration.

At that point the vultures will circle. Who do you want to win then---the Ali Syeds of the world or your own?

Though anyone who loves Rovers and reads the stuff on here would be forgiven for walking away. No Rovers can be "happy" with relegation but somebody has to come up with a solution to move us on. Its easy to throw your hands up in horror but do nothing.

There are currently 3 teams worse than rovers. Woman, bolton, wolves. Rovers are 4th from bottom after yesterday and today results.

[JAL]

There are currently 3 teams worse than rovers. Woman, bolton, wolves. Rovers are 4th from bottom after yesterday and today results.

For accuracy PAFELL, have all these four teams played against the same teams at the same venues, and if not, which ones out these have we beaten this season cheers!

[Fife Rover]

There may not be anything underhand, but i can quite see why people are upset by it. When I attended early protests i did so because i was a fan concerned at the mismanagement of my club. I wanted it put on record that I was not happy with the manager, Kean, nor subsequently with the owners Venkys. It is, however, a huge step from that to suggesting who should run us, and backing any potential buyer. I didn't sign up to that actually or metaphorically and, whilst it may be possible that this potential consortium could be the answer, I, like many others, I suspect, would like a good deal more transparency about what is going on before I'd be happy to join in any kind of protest again. I always said I'd support whatever protests I felt comfortable with, because i couldn't sit back and do nothing, but, if there is an element of secrecy about what is going on, then i don't want to be part of it. One of my big concerns on all the committees i serve on, and they are many, is that everything which is not of a confidential nature is right out there in the public domain, so nobody can say they didn't know what was going on or that they had been lied to. It needs to be the case here. If there is a bid or whatever then we need to know what is going on as far as that is possible, without financial detail if that needs to remain confidential. We cannot support what we do not understand.

+100%. I am absolutrly in favour of any kind of Rovers Fans buyout, BUT before giving any active support I want to know exactly who is organising the buyout and what their intentions are. ALL cards on the table face up and nothing less.

I would hope that from the various well connected business people, who are also legitimate fans with a fully tranparent track record, a sensible and trustworthy proposal can be put together and financed from their own contacts. This then should have no dificulty at all in gaining the full backing and support of all genuine Rovers fans.

I have been following with interest the various posts mentioning the efforts being made by messrs Battersby, Currie and Wild and I have been living in hope and will continue to do so, as long as they go about things in the right way and as far as possible keep the body of fans as informed and up to date as circumstances will allow. Obviously without compromising any actions or negotiations.

[mark1875]

I am posting this on behalf of Glen Mullan (whose laptop is currently in the shop after getting wet listening to the last podcast (do not listen to a podcast in the bath).

Firstly i want to bring some clarification, inparticular Paul. In September 2011 protests were born on brfcs, after i was heavily pushed by various respected members of this website. So before you start throwing your accusations around i suggest you get your facts right. On the day of the first protest i was saddened when those who was pushing me to start protests, made various excuses/reasons as to why they could not been seen to be supporting them even though they was the ones pushing for them. I was deeply concerned by the freefall our club was in since Steve Kean became manager, never at one point during a protest did i use inside information to gather support. When the first protest occurred i didn't have a clue if anybody was going to turn up. I was certain in my own mind that Kean would be sacked following a couple of protests, as his record as manager of our club is atrocious. Never at one point did i imagine that 5 months down the line would:

A ) Kean still be in charge

B ) The supporters would still be protesting

C ) The supporters to now want Venkys out (I always hoped Venkys would come good)

D ) That our club would be in the worst position i can remember in my lifetime.

Throughout this process i have listened to opinions from one extreme to another. Some of the personal abuse i have received would have seen many people throw in the towel, however i am not that individual, I made a promise the day we marched against Arsenal and that promise was the following, 'I would see this through until the end and try and do everything in my power as a supporter to protect the long term future of our club'.

As things evolved more revelations began to leak out of the club, many of these have been reported by the media whilst Venkys negligence as owners became more apparent. What started off as a simple protest to remove a manager who was incapable of managing a premiership football team had suddenly turned into a protest to ensure we had a football team. I have always been transparent and will talk to anybody, i have always been approachable and will answer any questions i know the answer to. For many months people, including you Paul have said that "it's ok getting rid of the manager and Venkys but who is going to come in and replace them". I was asked by Kamy and PhillipL if i could turn the heat up on Venkys as there was a potential take over from the Qatari's, this got me excited as under Venky's we seemed destined for only one direction and that was doom. It was at this point protests turned on Venkys, unfortunately that takeover did not Materialise.

Wayne Wild attended the open supporters meeting at Uncle Jacks after going public on the sponsorship issues that WEC had with Venkys. Wayne Wild is as passionate a Rovers fan as you will meet. Protests continued despite individuals deliberately trying to undermine us including you Paul, who offered no alternative and have always had an agenda to try and derail the supporters concerns about our club. What your agenda is, i do not know. The Action Group contacted individuals like Wayne Wild, Jack Straw and Graham Jones along with other local businesses in an attempt to have this injustice by Venkys brought out into the public domain.

I am just a simple supporter who loves his club and is willing to fight for it. We are fortunate that other supporters share the same passion, i was shown by Wayne Wild, the business proposal done by Daniel and asked for my thoughts (due to having a business degree). I gave my constructive thoughts on the business proposal and i'm pretty sure Wayne spoke to others for their thoughts, i have never met Daniel in person and neither Wayne nor i knew Daniel prior to his original business proposal. A new revamped proposal has been put together as a principle model but by no means is the finished article, Daniel has worked very hard on this whilst Wayne and i have held many discussions over it.

The Action Group who is now committee led (elected), has offered their full support behind the proposal Daniel has brought to the table along with Wayne and we are now working closely with Wayne in what could be one of many possible solutions. This is not a crime, the best case scenario at this point in time is for Venkys to come to the table and start investing in our club and running it with the attention to detail it deserves. Unfortunately over the last 18 months there has been no evidence of this, the proposal which is being put together will be transparent and i would rather put my weight behind somebody who is willing to try than cross my fingers and legs and pray.

When we had the open supporters meeting this was an effort to try and unite supporters and all supporter groups were invited. There was no agenda to manipulate, the only agenda was to get supporters to work together. On Friday i had a meeting with Wayne Wild where the new revamped proposal was shown to me and openly discussed. In my opinion the latest figures etc although a big ask, are achievable. My intentions have always been in good faith and as i posted earlier was born from supporters asking me to do something. There are no hidden agendas here, i post on brfcs on a daily basis, i am available on twitter on a daily basis, i am available on the phone on a daily basis and have made myself available at every open meeting since this process began. I have never shirked or hidden away and i find some of the comments and accusations being thrown around as insulting.

I will always protect the action group and i am proud of every single one of them, we are a team who seek a united front from all of the supporters of Blackburn Rovers to ensure that we do all we can to protect the long term future of our club. If individuals or groups wish to put in place an escape route or back up plan should Venkys fail, then they should be applauded and not slated.

The action group will continue to work with Wayne and Daniel in addition to Graham Jones who brought Rovers current position to parliament after working with the action group, we are also currently at an advanced stage of lobbying the Football Association whilst talks with the club are also progressing. If you think our actions are unhonourable, then please explain what you are doing and what your back up plan is should Venkys do a moonlight flit.

Finally, for those who have offered their unquestionable support over the last 5 months, i would like to thank you on behalf of the Action Group as it is your support which gives us the strength to go on. I would also like to extend a welcome to any supporter who wishes to take part in action group activities as the action group is democratic and open to anyone who cares for Blackburn Rovers.

[PAFELL]

For accuracy PAFELL, have all these four teams played against the same teams at the same venues, and if not, which ones out these have we beaten this season cheers!

We can only take things match by match. Did any of teams get a win at man u. There have been strange results for rovers this season. Arsenal at home, man u & Liverpool away. Rovers concede more, but score more than teams around us.

Every match is a hard match for all teams in the bottom. Rovers are not in the bottom 3 as of today.

[47er]

There are currently 3 teams worse than rovers. Woman, bolton, wolves. Rovers are 4th from bottom after yesterday and today results.

Like a lot of fans Pafell you take things from week to week. Where will we be after next week?

People who look beyond performances on the field on a week to week basis are more useful to us now.

[PAFELL]

Like a lot of fans Pafell you take things from week to week. Where will we be after next week?

People who look beyond performances on the field on a week to week basis are more useful to us now.

Did anybody see us getting a result v man u. Nobody did. I also cannot see it happening v man city. But If they fight like they did v man u, who knows what will happen. Depends on what team turns up on the day.

[47er]

That's a great response and should shame several posters on this thread. Sadly, it won't.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Maybe it's because I'm 3,500 miles away but my overall impression of the BRAG has been clouded by what has seemed to be a lack of transparency. Loads of meetings with the club, about what I have never seen any detail; the crosshairs switched at random from one target to the next, now seemingly done at the behest of individuals championing a "bid"; and now involvement with some well-meaning guys who have a plan shoudl we get relegated. All done with the best of intentions I'm sure, but all done without communicating that's what's being done and why. Any further initiatives by BRAG will now have any reasonable people wondering what or who is behind the next change in direction

[onlyoneDuff]

BRAG would like to see us relegated....fact...what a farce

[perthblue02]

BRAG would like to see us relegated....fact...what a farce

Well that's one way of looking at it, much the same way as saying what a fantastic job Kean is doing after the win over QPR. The buyout proposal is in my view one effort to stop Rovers going into freefall should we be relegated. Yes it is dependant on the club being relegated which at this present time is a likely scenario, would you be more interested or approving if it stated that it was based on a top 6 finish and European football in 2012 / 2013?

Relegation

Venky's will lose interest (even more than they have already done) when Blingy can't have his friends round to a party to watch Rovers v Man U and show off his new toy. Kean will still be manager and let's face it he is not even championship standard, any half decent player we have will be off and replaced by chicken plant workers from Brazil and offspring of Kean's friends and business associates, so based on the current facts should we get relegated our stay in the Championship under the current regime could be short lived before another relegation.

So to say BRAG would like to see us relegated is a bit off the mark, and Here's a suggestion of a way to stop meltdown of Blackburn Rovers in the likely event of relegation, is probably closer to the mark.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

BRAG would like to see us relegated....fact...what a farce

Hmmm, Just like Ian Battersby's commentary during his podcast 23 discussion where he states that from any buyer's point of view, Rovers already have one foot in the Championship. I guess he wants to see Rovers relegated too, to get the best value for money for his consortium of investors?

What is wrong with you? Are some of you really that thick? It is hard to fathom sometimes...

+100%. I am absolutrly in favour of any kind of Rovers Fans buyout, BUT before giving any active support I want to know exactly who is organising the buyout and what their intentions are. ALL cards on the table face up and nothing less.

I would hope that from the various well connected business people, who are also legitimate fans with a fully tranparent track record, a sensible and trustworthy proposal can be put together and financed from their own contacts. This then should have no dificulty at all in gaining the full backing and support of all genuine Rovers fans.

I have been following with interest the various posts mentioning the efforts being made by messrs Battersby, Currie and Wild and I have been living in hope and will continue to do so, as long as they go about things in the right way and as far as possible keep the body of fans as informed and up to date as circumstances will allow. Obviously without compromising any actions or negotiations.

Absolutely agree. That is the foundation that this is built on. Even as the creator of it, I will stop supporting it if it ever strays from that basic assumption.

[dave birch]

It would appear that not many posters know what contingency planning is all about.

IF we get relegated, it's too late to start the planning then, it needs to be in place and ready to go,SHOULD we go down.

That is what all this is about.

[Stuart]

It would appear that not many posters know what contingency planning is all about.

IF we get relegated, it's too late to start the planning then, it needs to be in place and ready to go,SHOULD we go down.

That is what all this is about.

Spot on Dave.

Some people have seen the words "relegation", "dependent" and "contingent" and have deliberately chosen to misread this, instead of thinking through what it actually means.

I could start to talk about other agendas but I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt and put it down to emotions running high, and some posters being too young to fully understand.

[blue_n_white99]

Spot on Dave.

Some people have seen the words "relegation", "dependent" and "contingent" and have deliberately chosen to misread this, instead of thinking through what it actually means.

I could start to talk about other agendas but I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt and put it down to emotions running high, and some posters being too young to fully understand.

Unfortunately the current owners, manager etc. have created and cultivated these underlying feelings of mistrust, and whilst I support any effort that is brought forward to advance Rovers cause, I can understand that people will be reticent and suspicious when they have been consistently lied to for the last 15 months.

All that said, any positive moves should be warmly received and given a fair go until they prove worthless or they achieve their targets, at which point we should adapt to and overcome the obstacles facing the club.

[Stuart]

Unfortunately the current owners, manager etc. have created and cultivated these underlying feelings of mistrust, and whilst I support any effort that is brought forward to advance Rovers cause, I can understand that people will be reticent and suspicious when they have been consistently lied to for the last 15 months.

All that said, any positive moves should be warmly received and given a fair go until they prove worthless or they achieve their targets, at which point we should adapt to and overcome the obstacles facing the club.

If I spent 15 months lying to you, and you found out, would that make you distrust Dave?