[Archived] Venky's willing to sell?

[BuckyRover]

No. Ludicrous Idea. Everybody should pay the same.

Right vs Left

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329160542[/url]' post='1225563']

Is it all out in the open?

I am very curious why Wayne Wild would ask Glen Mullan about your proposal? So wayne saw it and thought i know that GM chap leading the protests is the man to go speak too?

There's more to that side of things isn't there?

PS try not to respond with insults, I won't react well, if you can?

Thanks, Majiball, I'll try to be civil from now on

Too be honest, I don't know the answer to that question. I haven't spoken to Wayne about Glen or the Action Group. If I recall correctly, way before this proposal was even a glint in my eye, Glen had reached out to Wayne after Wayne's public call for communication from Venkys as the Club's major sponsor. My first inclination is that this is why he went to Glen with it, to try and gain its support from a group of supporters before going all out. Really nothing more to it than that, I would think. Glen actually is on record on these forums as giving only begrudging support at the recommendation of Wayne to stay open-minded. I believe that post is on the original Charitable Fund thread. So to say that there might be something shady going on there or even anything extracurricular is more than a bit of a stretch.

I don't mean any disrespect at all, but I guess I really don't understand where all the suspicion behind the Action Group comes from. Is there a specific incident or specific set of incidents that have caused this other than a certain agent's disgusting insinuations made on national television? If so I seem to have missed that...I am aware that the Action Group is mostly directly responsible for that wonderful piece being written in the Indian Financial Times that tore the Venkys apart for their mismanagement, and that they succeeded in getting meetings scheduled with Kean (which never materialized, not their fault). Correct me if I am wrong, but is their only sin switching targets, and this is what is making everyone all iffy about them?

To be fair it seems a natural progression - first it was Kean, because he is the manager. Second it was Venkys, because they clearly showed that they were not willing to take responsibility for their mismanagement and destabilization of the Club, or make any decision or correction to help the team get out of its position. Then they started to get criticism for not achieving anything, and not providing anything positive, only being a negative organization. Then they do something positive, which is try to help to provide an alternative to Venkys to allow them to leave, and they get slated as wanting the club to be relegated, and for conspiring to stage a hostile takeover of the Club for themselves....hmmmm....it seems like no matter what they do they can't escape - as already aptly put in this thread - damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I don't think any of us thought we or the Club would be in this position when the protests started. It is like a nightmare scenario. Supporter against supporter, an apathetic owner and her manager yes man crony - it is like the script of a bad B movie. I think, as stated, that what ended up becoming the Action Group was a bunch of people that thought that they would be protesting for a few weeks and Kean would be sacked. What has come since has been a whirlwind of poo and it seems like nobody is staying clean.

I mean I am sure that Glen will be able to answer that question in like three simple sentences.

The thing is, I get it. None of us want the Club to fall into the wrong hands again, in the event of a change of ownership. We are all extremely gun-shy at this point, like a dog with an abusive owner that flinches when you go to pet it. It is like walking on pins and needles here. I understand. I am only human and have fallen ill to it as well, I mean just look at some of my responses, which you have kindly pointed out to me again. I am not going to delete them, because I am willing to be reminded of my bad behavior over and over again if it means that I won't do it again.

I just get extremely disappointed when stuff like this repeatedly comes up with no real basis, other than a conjuration of a creative mind. Or am I way off base?

[PAFELL]

Is it all out in the open?

I am very curious why Wayne Wild would ask Glen Mullan about your proposal? So wayne saw it and thought i know that GM chap leading the protests is the man to go speak too?

There's more to that side of things isn't there?

PS try not to respond with insults, I won't react well, if you can?

I think somebody getting warm. I wondered when somebody would think that way when I saw the post earlier today.

The whole idea is hocus pocus stuff.

Maybe time for BRAG to go to Burnley & get them relegated

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329162540[/url]' post='1225578']

Welcome back and every credit for taking the dig in the spirit it was intended.

Very impressed with today's approach. Took a lot guts. Every respect for you and the endevour you have put into the proposal. I hope it gets off the ground but unfortunatley I don't think it will.

We are not going to agree on going public with a relegation contingency and I fail to see what BRAG bring to the party on this topic. All that has happened is that any future protests will be viewed negativley (even more so) by a large proportion of the support.

It's a shame as they were an important element of this battle with Venky's and effectivley they have shot themselves in the foot.

Thanks, Oscar, I took a sleep and a few chill pills, and gained back my perspective. I understand your reasoning regarding the wording and approach, I honestly do, and I agree that there most likely could have been a better presentation approach that could have softened the whole relegation part. I fully understand that what you are saying about the future perception of the Action Group's activities is probably correct, as sad as that is. Maybe they just need to go to the matches and lead the singing in support of the players instead of protesting, and hand out their informational flyers, and don't do active protests in that manner anymore. Maybe they need to be a strictly positive force rather than a protesting one. I am sure they are willing to do whatever it takes to prove their good intentions and true loyalties, which I am convinced lie with Rovers.

Are you of the opinion that this would have been much more well received if we were in the same position in the table at the end of March? Or would the plan and BRAG's support have been received in the same way? I know it is totally hypothetical, but I am truly curious as to people's opinion on that. I ask because something like this takes a while to put in motion, you can't just come out in the middle of April with a month to go to close season and expect to get anything moving. And if it comes down to the final day, as it very well might? Would they get the same criticism, and would it be feasible to announce something like this then? That would be a bit late in the day, in my opinion. It is an extremely delicate balance, as I'm sure you'll agree. And you can never really know how people will react until it is out there. Now we know, and I guess hindsight is 20/20??

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329148073[/url]' post='1225491']

Dan - Can I suggest that you collate these questions / answers and put them into some sort of FAQ that potential purchasers can read.

Theres no doubt that many will be asking the same thing if you're asking them to part with a fair chunk of money.

Good idea! That will be a project in itself. Wonder where I should put this FAQ...

1329161254[/url]' post='1225569']

Theoretical question.... IF we had a solid ownership in place, would anyone be willing to contribute say 5% of their take home pay to the club?? Similar to how some religions receive income?!? That way people only pay in an affordable amount relevant to their circumstances?

Surely an excellent way to boost incomes if a large number of fans/ local businesses would be willing to sign up?

Perhaps it could be linked to benefits, such as it covers the cost of your season ticket and discounts other items the club may offer, such as corporate events or club shop merchandise etc.

Hmm, sounds a lot like taxes or tithes to me - and while football clubs are like religions to a lot of us, I think people would take exception to the Club trying to dictate how much of your money you give them, especially if you don't even get an ownership share in the Club for your troubles. Bit Middle Ages? I mean you'd have to trust in that onwership as much as you did in Jesus (no offense to any religious folks out there) to go along with that, wouldn't you? There are already subscription schemes out there, right? Season tickets, premium content on the Rovers web site, etc...

[ABBEY]

JHC PAFELL GIVE IT A REST WITH CONSTANT DIGS AT BRAG...NOT LONG AGO YOU WAS MOANING AT PEOPLE BEING ON YOUR BACK ALL THE TIME YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS ,IF YOU GIVE IT PLEASE TAKE IT.

[glen9mullan]

My personal take on things,

When I was shown the original proposal, I said it was unachievable on the figures presented, but also told Wayne at the time that the concept could work, if some serious number crunching was done to make it a little more affordable to the everyday supporter. I think I publically said on these forums somewhere, that I would remain open minded.

I know Wayne has taken the effort to look at this and put his imput into the original concept from Daniel, It may be a non starter, but its always good to have idea's and the drive to look at all eventualites

If this particular effort works is anyones guess, as the proposal Daniel has put together is still in its infancy and it will require a lot of work from a lot of people to have any chance of success.

This is just one idea which has been put to supporters in recent weeks, and one which is worth a look as its the only one which has been publically put out.

I'm certain other options will open up in the coming weeks, should Venkys decide to throw the towel in, but at present there are too many "Ifs" and "Buts".

The Action Group has been in constant dialogue with many people over the last 5 months, with Wayne being just one of them. I would always offer my support to anyone who wishes to be pro-active in finding soloutions to the problems we are currently facing, and I maintain our best option is Venkys invest as its a much quicker fix.

I have never spoken to Daniel and only have the information he posts on here as a guide to his intentions, which I think are admirable

No-one can second guess Venkys including the board, and as supporters we are in the main as worried as each other, especially as their silence has gone on for months.

They currently hold the keys, the cards and pretty much everything, Does this mean we should just accept what will be will be?

The action group is now commitee run, and the first committee meeting is later in the week. We are all supporters of Rovers and as a group will always take notice of potential takeover over bids. Wayne has our full support as he has always been open and honest with the clubs supporters. Wayne may choose to go down this path, or may take a different course of action dependent on what windows may open further down the line.

I think it speaks volumes of Wayne that he was willing to read and listen to Dan's proposal, and took the time and effort to look to progress it on more realistic figures.

I think it also speaks volumes for Daniel that he was more than open to to reassess the figures, to make it more affordable. Whatever the outcome of this particualar project, at least these guys are having a good go

[Kelbo]

I agree with Glen, people are p[utting an effort in and deserve our support, these people are doing far more than our so called owners hiding in a bunker in Pune and I for one believe Dans plan is workable, give the lads a break and some support, they are putting in an effort for our club and thats important.

One thing I may ask for anyone with the answers, If (in the light of both Pompy and Rangers going into admin) if Rovers went into admin and were relegated, set up again as BRFC 2012 Ltd, what would happen to the parachute payments?

[garner1971]

Until now, I have reserved judgement on both the proposal and the increasing presence of Wayne Wild on TV/Radio and in the written press. Having a number of mutual friends with Wayne Wild, they had expressed reservations. Not about Wayne's allegiance to the Rovers, the fact he is a fan is not in doubt. However, there is a feeling he is a serial self-publicist. Apparently, he is only a small shareholder of WEC, although he likes to portray otherwise. Sponsorship of the Darwen End came through WEC profit, not from Mr. Wild, although you could be forgiven for thinking they are one and the same, they are not. (there is a comment earlier in the thread that he likes the sound of his own voice a little too much)! This may or may not be true, although my opinion is Wayne appears to have seized onto the proposal prepared my Daniel and gone public with it very quickly. Again portraying himself as a saviour for our club when there is very little substance or chance of success with the numbers involved. There may be a role for a supporters investment group stakeholding if the Venkys sell, but in my view that can only be feasible if there is other serious investment perhaps from someone like Messrs. Currie/Battersby. Sorry if I have burst anyone's bubble.... just my 2penneth!

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329167145[/url]' post='1225602']

I agree with Glen, people are p[utting an effort in and deserve our support, these people are doing far more than our so called owners hiding in a bunker in Pune and I for one believe Dans plan is workable, give the lads a break and some support, they are putting in an effort for our club and thats important.

One thing I may ask for anyone with the answers, If (in the light of both Pompy and Rangers going into admin) if Rovers went into admin and were relegated, set up again as BRFC 2012 Ltd, what would happen to the parachute payments?

If BRFC & A PLC was actually wound up completely and restarted as a new entity, not only would it lose the parachute payments, all honours and heritage since 1875, and league status, but I am pretty sure it would have to reapply for the registration to actually compete in the Championship, and would be at the mercy of the Football League to transfer that registration to the new entity. However, going into administration would not automatically mean being wound up - look at Pompey, how many times have they been in administration?

Truly shocking about Rangers though, and over a tax dispute, wow...had no idea they were that close to the edge, maybe I just don't pay enough attention to Scottish football - If they were actually wound up, that would be truly eye opening for a lot of clubs and supporters.

[Kendalrover]

I think the plan is a gem of a good idea. It is in its infancy and probably will go through many changes before people will realise it is a workable idea.

To really take off what it probably needs is significant capital injection from a few wealthy individuals/businesses and we are only talking of say 4 or 5 investments of £1M. That kind of investment could be attractive to people and companies wanting to invest in football. Then as others see it as a workable solution it will attract more investors and more money.

Too many people have come on this message board to ridicule the idea and claim it is unworkable, saying 'fans co-operatives' do not work as too many people will want a finger in the pie.

Lets remember one thing all public companies have shareholders, some have significant shareholdings others have minor shareholdings. The shareholders apppoint a Board to run the business if the Board is successful they share in the success if the Board is unsuccessful then the shareholders can influence Board changes. It is only right that those who have invested the most have the largest influence. This seems to have worked quite well for over two centuries in the Stockmarket, all the fan's co-operative will do is reflect this arrangement.

As long as a strong and experienced Board is appointed there is no reason why the proposal can't work. I suspect that whoever invested in the project would be quite happy to forgo dividends just to see the Rovers as a successful company.

I for one am interested in investing in the project and I will be monitoring progress with interest. I am not interested in making money all I want to see is the Rovers survive.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329168043[/url]' post='1225606']

Until now, I have reserved judgement on both the proposal and the increasing presence of Wayne Wild on TV/Radio and in the written press. Having a number of mutual friends with Wayne Wild, they had expressed reservations. Not about Wayne's allegiance to the Rovers, the fact he is a fan is not in doubt. However, there is a feeling he is a serial self-publicist. Apparently, he is only a small shareholder of WEC, although he likes to portray otherwise. Sponsorship of the Darwen End came through WEC profit, not from Mr. Wild, although you could be forgiven for thinking they are one and the same, they are not. (there is a comment earlier in the thread that he likes the sound of his own voice a little too much)! This may or may not be true, although my opinion is Wayne appears to have seized onto the proposal prepared my Daniel and gone public with it very quickly. Again portraying himself as a saviour for our club when there is very little substance or chance of success with the numbers involved. There may be a role for a supporters investment group stakeholding if the Venkys sell, but in my view that can only be feasible if there is other serious investment perhaps from someone like Messrs. Currie/Battersby. Sorry if I have burst anyone's bubble.... just my 2penneth!

I cannot comment on any of that intelligently, as I don't have the requisite knowledge of the man or the situation to do so. But I don't see anything in his language that suggests he thinks he is a savior. I certainly don't see myself that way. I will correct you on one thing, though. I don't think the Ian's have ever talked about putting their own money in, just other peoples. Correct me if I missed that. I don't mean that in any sinister way, let's be clear on that, but it is outside investment all the same, and no one can even speculate as to what the size of that investment would be, or how they would envision the Club to run financially, or what reasons the outside investors would have for investing, other than a return on that investment. It is impossible to do so.

I also agree that the very best chance for success is a united front with all parties working together to come up with a solution that is right for the Club. Ian Battersby mentioned in podcast 23 here that of course Mrs. Desai must understand that the club is devalued since their purchase, and that from a buyer's perspective it already has one foot in the Championship. I am certain he is not looking to pay Venkys what they did for it, or even half the cash payment they made. I agree that this is an astute judgement.

[Paul]

Truly shocking about Rangers though, and over a tax dispute, wow...had no idea they were that close to the edge, maybe I just don't pay enough attention to Scottish football - If they were actually wound up, that would be truly eye opening for a lot of clubs and supporters.

I don't have the figures or much of an idea where to find them but I would suggest little is shocking about this - other than that far too many British football clubs go into administration owing millions in unpaid tax and NI.

Rangers case is unusual because the dispute revolves

around whether or not the club's chosen method of paying salaries should or should not be taxable. Clearly HMRC think it was taxable and perhaps Rangers should have consulted a certain Mr H Redknapp?.

Seems to me if you play football in the UK you should pay UK taxes but I presume Rangers have been over-enthusiastic in anticipating devolution?

I would guess the majority of British clubs in administration have been put there by HMRC. If you don't pay your taxes you go bust or wait for Germany to bail you out!!

[47er]

I don't have the figures or much of an idea where to find them but I would suggest little is shocking about this - other than that far too many British football clubs go into administration owing millions in unpaid tax and NI.

Rangers case is unusual because the dispute revolves

around whether or not the club's chosen method of paying salaries should or should not be taxable. Clearly HMRC think it was taxable and perhaps Rangers should have consulted a certain Mr H Redknapp?.

Seems to me if you play football in the UK you should pay UK taxes but I presume Rangers have been over-enthusiastic in anticipating devolution?

I would guess the majority of British clubs in administration have been put there by HMRC. If you don't pay your taxes you go bust or wait for Germany to bail you out!!

What's unusual about Rangers is that their support base world-wide is massive. many really rich fans will never allow them to go under-----including Souness I'd guess!

[TBTF]

Correction Dan=the Ians have never revealed anything that they have planned so who knows what their game plan is? So now we can all start another round of hysteria about whos doing what and guessing .Its complete crap the lot of it,Venkys aint speaking to a single person .All we here is da da da da ''but we haven't had a response''.

Why are people now starting to believe they are on the brink of owning the Club? The self publicity theory is the only thing thats moving forward from what i can see

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329169338[/url]' post='1225616']

I don't have the figures or much of an idea where to find them but I would suggest little is shocking about this - other than that far too many British football clubs go into administration owing millions in unpaid tax and NI.

Rangers case is unusual because the dispute revolves

around whether or not the club's chosen method of paying salaries should or should not be taxable. Clearly HMRC think it was taxable and perhaps Rangers should have consulted a certain Mr H Redknapp?.

Seems to me if you play football in the UK you should pay UK taxes but I presume Rangers have been over-enthusiastic in anticipating devolution?

I would guess the majority of British clubs in administration have been put there by HMRC. If you don't pay your taxes you go bust or wait for Germany to bail you out!!

Yeah, apparently it is a £49m tax dispute (Scottish or English pounds?? ) but I was unaware it was over the wage taxation. You are right though, it seems HMRC is the one the football clubs don't want to pay. I don't understand that - do owners think they won't have to pay? Why are things just done above board, full disclosure? Then you don't have any problems!

[47er]

I do not think the plan even involves the two Ian's. It was not long ago that Glen was commiting about Ian Battersby's trip to Pune and Jerome Andersons role in the same. Even though Ian Battersby answered and gave good explanation to have that trip happened and the arrangements. That appears to have been rejected by Glen.

I think I would be happy to support a consortium with the Two Ian's involved. But buying the club with fans wages is not a good idea. We already pay the players, the club etc everytime we go through the turnstyle. If we were talking about an amature club, such as Ebbsfleet who did a simular thing, it would be different.

BRAGS idea is dependant on Rovers going down. Well they must have cursed WBA yesterday. Their victory and Rovers the day before, took us out the bottom 3. BRAG's motives from now on will be questioned by many, even if it has not already been questioned.

I'd like to thank you Dan for drawing up the Plan in the first place, spending a lot of time modifying it, responding patiently to sincere fans who are genuinely interested and, for the most part, responding patiently to fans like the above who would drive anybody to drink. It may not come to fruition for all sorts of reasons but at least you've given fans the hope and realisation that there are solutions and we will have a club at the end of all this, one way or another.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

1329170084[/url]' post='1225620']

Correction Dan=the Ians have never revealed anything that they have planned so who knows what their game plan is? So now we can all start another round of hysteria about whos doing what and guessing .Its complete crap the lot of it,Venkys aint speaking to a single person .All we here is da da da da ''but we haven't had a response''.

Why are people now starting to believe they are on the brink of owning the Club? The self publicity theory is the only thing thats moving forward from what i can see

That's true, TBTF, they haven't revealed anything, but people are saying it anyway. Seen purely from an objective point of view, if it can be done, I would agree with you, to an extent. It seems to me that if there is self publicity going on then there is also a lot of unfounded resentment going around in much larger measures.

You are absolutely correct that the Venkys aren't talking to anyone, and until they do so, nothing at all is going to happen. They own the Club, they hold all the cards. But what do you suggest? Scrap it all and wait until Venkys publicly announce they want out, and then scramble about like so many chickens with our heads cut off? Better that gets done now, wouldn't you say? Then we have time to get them screwed back on straight.

[47er]

Its a contingency plan if:

Venkys are willing to give the club away for nothing

10,000 people have PAID the £1000 each BEFORE the season ends

Barclays are happy to have loan repayments deferred (thats even if they allow the transfer of debt to new owners)

Without all of the above its nothing but a fag packet plan.

If there was no "if" in it, it wouldn't be a contingency plan!

[Roost]

If there was no "if" in it, it wouldn't be a contingency plan!

That took you a while. Difficult day trolling today 47er?

Try and keep up.

[47er]

That took you a while. Difficult day trolling today 47er?

Try and keep up.

Oh ! oh!

[deftangel]

Been away from here for a while and just staggered through the last few pages of this thread. It's all a bit of a blur so apologies if I'm missing something but it occurs to me that if all sides of this debate just take a few seconds to chill out things needn't be so fractious.

The "plan" proposed is by no means perfect but it is at least a starting point for a discussion. That it is predicated on relegation to be a step nearer "improbable but possibly feasible" from "flat out impossible" does not mean those behind it actively want the club to be relegated. Characterising it as such is just willfully misrepresenting things to be antagonistic and is as unhelpful as Mr. Wild's "half the cost of a holiday" comments and some of Mr Grabko's earlier posts on here (though he seems to be trying admirably to make up for that inauspicious start). If everyone would choose their words a bit more carefully they'd all realise they largely have the same common interest at heart. Rovers.

The fact is there is a not insignificant chance we will be relegated and Venky's largely marketing inspired investment will have deprecated massively should that manifest. Exploring possible options for tackling that potential eventuality without the charlatans who got us there is not something that should be discouraged. If a proposal were to pass the most robust scrutiny, I would rather the question at least be asked of our tinpot owners, would they would be willing to do business and make amends/repair some of the negative PR by fashioning of a graceful exit; than leave them to their own devices to sell us to an even worse bunch of muppets ala Pompey.

This will seem like a strange analogy but the economics of free-to-play games (think Temple Run, iPhone owners) is based around the concept of exploiting power-laws and finding "whales", the 1-5% of a population who will spend £100 on a game vs the 90% who play for free and the 9% who will spend £1. Maybe there aren't 10,000 who will cough up £1000 but there might be 10,000 who would cough up £100 and 900 who would pay £1,000 and 80 who would contribute something close to a six figure sum. Alternatively, a recent Kickstar project has managed to raise $1.7m in the space of less than a week from under 50,000 people. Over half of them paid $15, one paid $5000.

Research in this area indicates that people will pay for status and the status of owning a small piece of the football club you love has a value that will be worth more to some than others. If I was going to say anything to the people behind this plan, don't limit people to buying just a £1000 of anything. You'll be hard pushed to find 10,000 people who can do it, but you'll easily find 100 people who would contribute more. These models may not necessarily translate to a hypothetical scenario where Venky's were willing to write off their investment but they aren't complete pie in the sky either.

As for the BRAG, they seem to have attracted a fair bit of resentment in a short space of time and I'm not completely sure why having not really followed what they've gotten up to since the website went up. I think it unfair to ding them for shifting focus. The protests were rightly focussed on Kean at the start and were not shifted quickly enough on to (exclusively) the owners when that started to become counter-productive (post-Swansea for me) in my opinion. I don't think they are anything other than well intentioned either and for that reason, those behind it should be perfectly capable of answering any questions. What I will say, is that many of Mr Mullen's comments have carried a strain of self-validation even going back to his initial blog post that brought him to the forefront. I will defer to those that have met him personally who may say that he doesn't have an ego but it's how things come across. Whoever was responsible for the line "BRAG heavily involved in takeover bid" or whatever it was needs to take a look at themselves. Comments akin to a Director of large successful local business asking you for a sanity check on a proposal "because I have a business degree" just smack of self-importance, even if they were not intended to come across as so. I realise there is a desire to show the world that a difference is being made and that there are probably many apathetic and despondent fans around but it's a bit too much.

That may sound harsh and I mean no ill-will towards Glen as I'm appreciative of his efforts, even if I haven't quite agreed with every decision, action or their execution. I just think that having wound up in the spotlight in the midst of a very fractious, hurt, angry fanbase enveloped by the information vacuum caused by Venky's it is very, very easy to be misrepresented and he/BRAG could probably do a bit more to help themselves.

[Mercer]

I think it's admirable that supporters are looking at alternatives or contingency plans, however, professional experience tells me that it wont get off the ground.

Drafting a business plan is the easy part, drafting a credible business plan that stands-up to close scrutiny and has sufficient flexibility around the critical factors, is far more demanding and you probably have no more than a 10% chance of actually making it work.

Haven't looked at this in any great detail because, IMO, it collapses at the very beginning.

Firstly, even if relegated, there is no way in this world that Venky's will walk away from £23 million - there are different ways and means how they could get their investment, or most of it, back pretty quickly.

Secondly, 10,000 investors is merely a number that is seen to make it work. There is not a cat in hells chance that this will happen. I am almost certain that there will be no 'market intelligence' to give any sort of credibility to that number. IMV, no more than very low hundreds would bite the bullet.

In reality, there are only two types of potential owners - either an excessively cash rich individual or corporate entity where the club is essentially 'a toy' eg Abramovich / Chelsea or a corporate entity that sees branding opportunities (like Venky's) but with the nous to execute a plan efficiently.

[PAFELL]

I'd like to thank you Dan for drawing up the Plan in the first place, spending a lot of time modifying it, responding patiently to sincere fans who are genuinely interested and, for the most part, responding patiently to fans like the above who would drive anybody to drink. It may not come to fruition for all sorts of reasons but at least you've given fans the hope and realisation that there are solutions and we will have a club at the end of all this, one way or another.

Grow up. You may not like other peoples opinions. That is your choice. But everybody is allowed to make them.

The plan is dependant on relegation, supporters raising the money, venkys selling cheap.

Only the first is likely to happen. 10mill would not be anywhere near enough.

Now stop stalking me.

[PAFELL]

JHC PAFELL GIVE IT A REST WITH CONSTANT DIGS AT BRAG...NOT LONG AGO YOU WAS MOANING AT PEOPLE BEING ON YOUR BACK ALL THE TIME YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS ,IF YOU GIVE IT PLEASE TAKE IT.

Abbey like you and others I am permitted to post my opinion. You may not like what I post, so be it. If I am sceptical of BRAG, that is my choice. Again one I am permitted to give. Am I having digs at BRAG, No. Am I sceptical, cynical, about them, yes. I am not at this moment convinced by their motives. YOU maybe convinced by them - so be it. But they have yet to convince me. Maybe one day they will. I may well be the only one with that stance, so be it. But it wasn't long ago that people on here were telling philip to stop scaremongering etc - this went on for ages. Many posters gave him abuse for his opinion. those same folk are not doing it now. Well my opinion, right or wrong, at the moment is I am sceptical of BRAG.

By the way, others have also made comments about BRAG. But you have not made comments in their direction. But for you and 47er it seems it is open house on me.

Daniel put forward an idea a plan - one which I do not believe will work.

Wayne Wild has supportered this plan - his choice. I do not as I do not think it workable and is extremely dangerous for the club. If there was a great deal of other money behind the idea, then it has a chance. But for a club, premiership or championship club to be financed by supporters just to purchase it - is not feesable. But respect to the man for putting a plan together. Putting in the time etc etc. Cannot fault that, But.

Out of curiosity, who of the supporters under takes the fit and proper ownership test. If 10,000 fans are putting in £1000 each. Will they be chosen by raffle.

Who gives the bank the assurance that any debts etc can be paid. Do we really think the bank in this current climate would be willing to take a chance on an idea not been done before? We have businesses up and down the country going bust because the banks won't extend or give credit / loans.

But the plan itself, is all dependent on relegation, venkys selling up and cheaply (which they will not do)

Fans having and willing to raise the money to buy the club. This I do not believe is viable.

If people think 10mill is enough then to me, that is bonkers. Bank will want paying the debt owed. They may give time as that brings in interest payments. But how or who is going to pay that? How often will fans be asked to dip into pockets to keep the club a float. People won't have to boycott, they won't be able to afford to get in. The hill at the back of the riverside will be packed out.