[Archived] Venky's willing to sell?

[Stuart]

Totally correct. Money is NOT the issue. Pride is. They will take NO NOTICE OF ANY PROTESTS. That I am certain of. Hate banging this drum. But it is a fact.

BRAG are detriment to venkys chosing to sell the club.. BRAG may as well go and do something else with their lives. As venkys will not give in to protests. BRAG & PROTESTS. Are one and the same to venkys. Both will be ignored.

Excellent, PAFELL, another angle to bash BRAG. That'll keep you going for another 10 pages.

[Stuart]

I think Dan is exactly right on this, it was certainly my first reaction to Le Chuck's idea. I like the idea and see the logic but ultimately it is third party ownership which is illegal and frequently decried by fans. I've a suspicion it's a plan fans might support for their own club on the basis "my club is fundamentally decent etc." but be outraged by other clubs taking similar action. A lot of rules would probably get bent.

I also feel there is a moral dilemma in the idea of an investor "owning" a player. I know in reality itsn't true ownership but it feels like the player becomes nothing more than a commodity rather than a human being.

My first reaction was. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people already involved within and around the game who have thought exactly the same way. My second thought was wondering if that might have been in any of the business plans put to Venkys.

I guess if it can be proven the investor doesn't own the player, it's worth exploring.

By extension. I wonder how long before players become public companies and float on the stock exchange.

Good post, LeChuck.

[brian_gallagher85]

I've been trying to explain this for a while now, but Miker is dead on the money on this. It's an action that seems alien, destructive, counter intuitive and just plain insane to us, but that's exactly how it seems to me. They won't be bullied or bought, they need at exit strategy that (in their eyes) allows them a dignified exit, otherwise I doubt they'd sell no matter how bad things got or what pressure they were under.

Again this simply underlines the fact that these people aren't fit to own a football club or any business. I can only think that dear old mum and dad left a proper structure in place behind the scenes of their other major businesses, as during their time at Ewood they've been the classic example of spoilt, ignorant children squandering their parents fortune.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

My first reaction was. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people already involved within and around the game who have thought exactly the same way. My second thought was wondering if that might have been in any of the business plans put to Venkys.

I guess if it can be proven the investor doesn't own the player, it's worth exploring.

By extension. I wonder how long before players become public companies and float on the stock exchange.

Good post, LeChuck.

Totally agree, on your thoughts about the concept and on LeChuck's contribution, Stuart. It is already an old cliché to say that the only way to make money in football is through transfers. The exchange of money attracts more middle men than one might imagine, and there are probably schemes at work that are equally beyond the imagination in place now that are borderline legitimate.

However, you again have to be very careful because you don't want financial considerations to outweigh footballing ones in the sense that you have to try and make a profit on your trading activity.

Players are already just commodities - look at how they are presented in the accounts of football clubs - as intangible fixed assets! They aren't even considered material fixtures, but more like Intellectual Property!

Imagine how rich Messi, for example, would instantly become if there was an IPO on his "ownership" - and what an incredibly sad and cold day that would be in human history if such a ridiculous thing ever occurred...

[den]

Rovers supporters are not Venkys' suppliers or employees. Rovers' supporters are customers. And as a whole, the customer base is deeply dissatisfied. Serving up more of the same crap, in the name of "pride", is pure idiocy. It will lose Venkys money and will further underscore their incompetence for the entire world to see.

The supporters/customers will NOT roll over and ask Venkys to tickle their bellies, merely because Venkys feelings are hurt.

+1

Venky's will, and have taken notice of the protests. They might not like it and might not know which way to turn, but they have taken notice. Unfortunately for everyone, their response to that so far has been to retreat to Pune and refuse to deal with the club's problems. The ultimate protest might very well come this summer. Then they'll have to make other decisions.

[47er]

Excellent, PAFELL, another angle to bash BRAG. That'll keep you going for another 10 pages.

or ten years!

As I keep telling you Pafell, if things go badly at a home game we need to win, a torrent of abuse aimed at Kean and Venkys will descend from the stands and there'll be nothing you or I or Brag can do about it. That's football.

Actually you could go among the supporters urging us to be quiet because Venkys need to retain their dignity. I look forward to that!

[ABBEY]

Stop picking on him ! He will say your stalking

[PAFELL]

or ten years!

As I keep telling you Pafell, if things go badly at a home game we need to win, a torrent of abuse aimed at Kean and Venkys will descend from the stands and there'll be nothing you or I or Brag can do about it. That's football.

Actually you could go among the supporters urging us to be quiet because Venkys need to retain their dignity. I look forward to that!

Yes people will protest, natural. But sadly it will not achieve anything. Venkys too stubbon to listen and will not allow themselves to be dictated too. They will view the protests as an attempt to dictate to them. Which they will stand against.

[Mattyblue]

And that is exactly why Venky's are not and will never be suitable to own an English football club.

[yoda]

Yes people will protest, natural. But sadly it will not achieve anything. Venkys too stubbon to listen and will not allow themselves to be dictated too. They will view the protests as an attempt to dictate to them. Which they will stand against.

That is entirely their problem, its about time they took their baby seriously

[PAFELL]

Excellent, PAFELL, another angle to bash BRAG. That'll keep you going for another 10 pages.

The evidence is clear. How have venkys responded to the protests? They have done nothing. They have not replaced Kean, appointed a chairman, communicated with supporters. They have done everything contary to what the protestors want. Even the article in India. As good as it was, what responce did venkys give. None

Their attitude may be stupid, which it is. But the evidence is clear they will do things how they want to do things, no matter what others say or do.

[Ralfinho]

The evidence is clear. How have venkys responded to the protests? They have done nothing. They have not replaced Kean, appointed a chairman, communicated with supporters. They have done everything contary to what the protestors want. Even the article in India. As good as it was, what responce did venkys give. None

Their attitude may be stupid, which it is. But the evidence is clear they will do things how they want to do things, no matter what others say or do.

lets start protesting chanting "WE WANT KEAN IN SAY WE WANT KEAN IN" they might sack him then!!!!! not

[PAFELL]

And that is exactly why Venky's are not and will never be suitable to own an English football club.

Agreed. That there is no doubt about. They think they can run a football club like they run their other businesses. They have yet to see this error. Only when they see that, will things change. But they are too slow to do things in the football business. Having other businesses means they cannot and will not give rovers there full attention. Basically they have taken on too much, when added to their other businesses.

Then you add in the on going internal family squabbles and it just makes things worse.

[yoda]

Agreed. That there is no doubt about. They think they can run a football club like they run their other businesses. They have yet to see this error. Only when they see that, will things change. But they are too slow to do things in the football business. Having other businesses means they cannot and will not give rovers there full attention. Basically they have taken on too much, when added to their other businesses.

Then you add in the on going internal family squabbles and it just makes things worse.

They should have left the people in place who could run it then, entirely their fault

[roversmum]

This was back in 2004 but nonetheless still interesting. Some have probably seen it before.

[PAFELL]

They should have left the people in place who could run it then, entirely their fault

Totally agree. But in my view, their advisors at the time had their own agenda. Venky's listened to dodgy advise, basically because they knew no different and still know no different. They probable realise now, they made a mistake in getting rid of JW etc. They won't admit it to us. But they also know they cannot turn the clock back and get them back in again. But being ignorant of the football business they do not know who to turn to for advice or even who to trust.

Their pride gets in the way of a lot of things. But, ironically their pride will mean they do not want to fail. Even though they are already failing in this business. They will either find the right advisors or they will let the club go on their own terms. Where they are seen to be doing a good thing and not as failures.

[yoda]

This was back in 2004 but nonetheless still interesting. Some have probably seen it before.

Interesting in what way, that she really wanted to be a shrink?

[47er]

Interesting in what way, that she really wanted to be a shrink?

and she can juggle an egg!

[yoda]

Totally agree. But in my view, their advisors at the time had their own agenda. Venky's listened to dodgy advise, basically because they knew no different and still know no different. They probable realise now, they made a mistake in getting rid of JW etc. They won't admit it to us. But they also know they cannot turn the clock back and get them back in again. But being ignorant of the football business they do not know who to turn to for advice or even who to trust.

Their pride gets in the way of a lot of things. But, ironically their pride will mean they do not want to fail. Even though they are already failing in this business. They will either find the right advisors or they will let the club go on their own terms. Where they are seen to be doing a good thing and not as failures.

Admiting it to us is irelevant, they are being judged by the banks and their peers now

happy days!

[PAFELL]

This was back in 2004 but nonetheless still interesting. Some have probably seen it before.

Interesting read.

[broadsword]

God knows where all this will end up if they refuse to sell because of stubborn pride.

Under a neglectful owner who refuses to let go, League 1 is a definite possibility.

[ABBEY]

Agreed. That there is no doubt about. They think they can run a football club like they run their other businesses. They have yet to see this error. Only when they see that, will things change. But they are too slow to do things in the football business. Having other businesses means they cannot and will not give rovers there full attention. Basically they have taken on too much, when added to their other businesses.

Then you add in the on going internal family squabbles and it just makes things worse.

And yet brag is wrong?

[rovers11]

This was back in 2004 but nonetheless still interesting. Some have probably seen it before.

Very revealing article. This is a particular quote I found interesting:

'Instead, having worked her way up every ladder in the organisation, she is a great believer in delegation. “Give people the freedom to function, take initiative and decisions and they will outperform themselves and develop a sense of belonging for the organisation,” she says with confidence.'

Probably explains why kean has so much power and is unsackable.

[yoda's brother]

Totally agree. But in my view, their advisors at the time had their own agenda. Venky's listened to dodgy advise, basically because they knew no different and still know no different. They probable realise now, they made a mistake in getting rid of JW etc. They won't admit it to us. But they also know they cannot turn the clock back and get them back in again. But being ignorant of the football business they do not know who to turn to for advice or even who to trust.

Their pride gets in the way of a lot of things. But, ironically their pride will mean they do not want to fail. Even though they are already failing in this business. They will either find the right advisors or they will let the club go on their own terms. Where they are seen to be doing a good thing and not as failures.

you are starting to waffle now pafell

[PAFELL]

And yet brag is wrong?

I have said all along there are reasons for protesting. But they will not move venkys.

This makes brags approach wrong, as they will not acheive their aims. As it is not working, you have to change tact.