[Archived] Venky's willing to sell?

[Stuart]

Buy it back? Do you see that happening Stuart?

No, simply because they recognise that in today's game a club the size of rovers cannot continue to dine at the top table being run the way it was for much longer.

The backlash for the Walkers if they took this course of action would be hard and in their doorstep too.

Venkys fit the bill quite nicely to achieve the job being so far removed from rovers and Lancashire.

It's a conspiracy theory of mine, I'm not suggesting it is the case but its quite feasible

It might explain the cheap price tag they got the club for too. The cost cutting and offloading of our premier league earners as stated in the article above could be viewed as a damage limitation effort as we move towards what might be seen as our correct status.

Just a thought.

Must admit that like Rovers1993 I kind of harbour hopes venkys are getting the ship in order so that they can take the club forward. Can't help but feel I'll be disappointed though, let's face it to continue with Kean is just jeopardising the league status. Which is why I believe championship football is the aim.

Wether that's a walker trust directive or not is immaterial really.

Nah, I just think they wanted rid of the millstone that was around their neck and would've taken the club to cashconverters if they could.

I don't for one minute believe they purposely sold the club to relegated it - unless I've completely misunderstood your initial post. You may be right that they thought they could no longer sustain a PL club and hoped that they had put enough safeguards in place so that the person they sold it to would do a better job than they could.

In my humble opinion:

Venkys thought that by using the same model and providing cash to keep the thing ticking over as required - and settling for being bottom of the Franchise League now and again (someone has to finish last) - that they could get their company some global recognition.

Sadly the bottom dropped out of their world when they found out about relegation and what it costs to avoid it.

At that point everything changed. No further investment was forthcoming and the focus was on reducing costs.

The only thing that doesn't stack up in my mind is, if the Qatari interest was genuine, that they didn't sell. So either it wasn't serious enough, or they misjudged their bargaining position, or they genuinely let pride come before a fall.

The must have so many regrets right now that it's just easier to ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. When was the last time Keano went to India?

[ada2020]

That's exactly what I'm suggesting in the post, though it does seem far fetched I agree.

As i said, just a thought, nothing more.

But, you never know do you.

I personally find the idea that they didnt understand relegation doubtful, I just think they would have done their homework on these areas.

But each to their own, I guess it's better than thinking we were sold down the river as per my scenario.

Never believed that Qatari business personally, like you say, why not sell if offered a profit and they don't want the club anymore..

[jim mk2]

, if the Qatari interest was genuine, that they didn't sell.

Did you really believe the Qatari story ? I might have missed the story but if they were a serious about buying (any) football club surely they would have bought one by now.

[Driftpeasant]

Did you really believe the Qatari story ? I might have missed the story but if they were a serious about buying (any) football club surely they would have bought one by now.

Heaven help me, I'm agreeing with Jim. But yes - if they were going to buy a club, surely they would have bought Everton - big fanbase, owner who's motivated to sell, better recent league performance - by now.

[Stuart]

Did you really believe the Qatari story ? I might have missed the story but if they were a serious about buying (any) football club surely they would have bought one by now.

I honestly don't know.

Kamy and Philip believe it was real. My gut feeling is they were in contact - possibly through some broker - and there was a level of interest (at the right price and at the right time). Why would they lie? To put pressure on Venkys? To add an angle in support of protests? They are both credible posters and podcasters but I know neither of them personally.

Middle Eastern business has a culture all of its own. I could very well believe that they are still looking at buying a club but are in absolutely no rush and will look for the best deal. A LOT of money buys you a LOT of time.

[Kelbo]

That's exactly what I'm suggesting in the post, though it does seem far fetched I agree.

As i said, just a thought, nothing more.

But, you never know do you.

I personally find the idea that they didnt understand relegation doubtful, I just think they would have done their homework on these areas.

But each to their own, I guess it's better than thinking we were sold down the river as per my scenario.

Never believed that Qatari business personally, like you say, why not sell if offered a profit and they don't want the club anymore..

They didnt do their homework on anything else, why should this be so different, The Rao family in my opinion and have always maintained this, are a couple of goals short of a Hat Trick!!

[TBTF]

Whether the Qatari bid was real or not we may never know.But there have been numerous attempts by BRST (Wayne Wild) and the Currie/Battersby approach to try to get them at least talking.There have no doubt been many others. But these looneytunes in India won't even answer a call/plea/email/phonecall/text not anything .So how do you come up with the theory they will go at break even or minimal loss??

The common theme is cost cutting and asset reduction with inferior replacements brought in at negligible cost. That in my book is as close to asset stripping as it can get without putting the thing in administration which is where we will end up unless they spend at some point.You can't keep going on in that kind of cycle without your income and therefore your business hitting the wall.

Conspiracy theories are out of date now because everything these clowns have been accused of has now come true-and not a comment from anyone inside or ewood or from India.

I actually want to be ill just thinking about what these total morons have done.

[John]

The silence and lack of respect from Pune says it all - and they expect fans to buy season tickets, what a complete shambles.

[Amo]

The silence and lack of respect from Pune says it all - and they expect fans to buy season tickets, what a complete shambles.

Based on previous form, that isn't a bad thing...

"Champions League with £5m..."

"Rovers is our baby..."

"Steve Kean is a brilliant manager..."

And many more!

[John]

But they talk from the heart and are so honest.

I miss Balaji, the slimey ponytailed pRick.

[tomphil]

Heaven help me, I'm agreeing with Jim. But yes - if they were going to buy a club, surely they would have bought Everton - big fanbase, owner who's motivated to sell, better recent league performance - by now.

Could be that Everton are 100 million plus in debt and need a new stadium or multi millions spending on Goodison. A massive outlay to start. Rovers is/was a steal compared to them probably.

[jim mk2]

I honestly don't know.

Kamy and Philip believe it was real. My gut feeling is they were in contact - possibly through some broker - and there was a level of interest (at the right price and at the right time). Why would they lie? To put pressure on Venkys? To add an angle in support of protests? They are both credible posters and podcasters but I know neither of them personally.

Middle Eastern business has a culture all of its own. I could very well believe that they are still looking at buying a club but are in absolutely no rush and will look for the best deal. A LOT of money buys you a LOT of time.

There is a number of clubs said to be desperately seeking buyers, some on the surface more attractive than Rovers so it makes sense in these straitened times with buyers having the upper hand that if they were serious about buying they would have done so by now. Personally I think the Qatari story was bogus.

[Mercer]

BRFC is a steal @ £20m.

If I had the money, would buy it in a heartbeat.

All that is needed is some shrewd management from top to bottom.

[david_daft]

Heaven help me, I'm agreeing with Jim. But yes - if they were going to buy a club, surely they would have bought Everton - big fanbase, owner who's motivated to sell, better recent league performance - by now.

Maybe Everton's debt is a bit off putting?

Not sure exactly how much it is but think it's over £50 million.

[philipl]

Sorry DP, but there are a lot of mistakes in your analysis.

[Driftpeasant]

Sorry DP, but there are a lot of mistakes in your analysis.

I'm open to criticism...

What do you see wrong with it?

My response to "if Venky's want out, why won't they talk to buyers" is Venky's want/need the parachute money.

By my math:

20.3m GBP - sale of Samba and Dann (net including incoming players)

24.0m GBP - parachute payments

That's 44.3m GBP. According to this article, Rovers were purchased for 53m. Of that, 23m was club purchase, 20m was debt assumption, and 10m was immediate investment. Barclays has largely grabbed their 20m back, so there's little chance of a potential buyer assuming debt and making Venky's happy - cash is king here. Venky's MUST have the parachute payments. No buyer is going to pay 34m for Rovers, after the asset has been devalued in the way it has. No buyer will just cede the parachute payments to Venky's either. Venky's have to hold on until after the 2013-2014 season if Rovers are relegated, or gut the squad and sell early next season (after the TV money has arrived) if not. If Rovers stay up, finding a buyer willing to take on a massively gutted squad will be difficult.

If Rovers can be sold, Championship or otherwise, for 10m, Venky's are made whole. I'm intentionally NOT including sales of existing players this summer because 1) I have no good way of estimating value, and 2) I imagine that money will be used to buy Championship level players and pay them/fund the club's deficit while a buyer is found.

[Miker]

Why do people constantly fail to understand that the parachute payments are not given out in a lump sum, but broken up over a couple of years. By the time the full sum is received, the club will have recorded huge losses and amassed debt. To date, Venky's have used any money they have made on transfers to re-invest in the squad or pay back bank loans and cover the club's losses either through the bank forcing them to do so or their own choice. What makes people think that they will just take the parachute payments and leave the club with a massive debt now? All that will happen if we get relegated is the owners will be forced to either cover losses with their own money or sell on to someone else to satisfy the bank, and if they choose to do neither then there will be consequences for them that will damage their reputation beyond repair.

If they wanted to cut their losses or get their money back and were no longer interested in financially supporting the club then they would have sold the club when any interest was shown.

The situation hasn't changed. They were sold a false proposition by previous owners who wanted rid and an agent brokering the deal who wanted to make some cash. After setting said agent loose at the club, they ended up accruing a large debt and getting themselves into a financially unsafe position, especially with the bank now cracking down on debt. The owners have had to spend this season getting it all sorted. With the uncertainty of relegation looming they are obviously going to cut costs and prepare for the worst. After being misled so badly, they're going to continue to sit on their money until our future is clear and then they will be able to reassess where to go from there.

What will be key for me is whether or not the owners choose to invest into giving our youth academy Category 1 status or not. Their decision on that will be very telling.

[Mattyblue]

So you feel Venky's have done well this season, Miker?

[Bobby G]

BRFC is a steal @ £20m.

If I had the money, would buy it in a heartbeat.

All that is needed is some shrewd management from top to bottom.

Why is it a steal? If its purely for owning a PL football club, maybe (although who knows if its a PL club in June). If you're looking at a money-making model, then no way. Football isnt profitable. You have to choose between success or profit. However, if you want it as an advertising/marketing model for your other businesses, if you play it right then yes it can be. The opposite of what our chicken farmers have done.

[Miker]

So you feel Venky's have done well this season, Miker?

I think they've done an awful job.

[Mercer]

Why is it a steal? If its purely for owning a PL football club, maybe (although who knows if its a PL club in June). If you're looking at a money-making model, then no way. Football isnt profitable. You have to choose between success or profit. However, if you want it as an advertising/marketing model for your other businesses, if you play it right then yes it can be. The opposite of what our chicken farmers have done.

Loook at the club just pre sale to Venky's.

More or less operationally breaking even, a manageable overdraft, rich in young playing talent and an experienced management team in place.

Tweaks were needed only. IMO, despite JW & TF there have always been some areas were commercial income could be maximised more (eg shirt sponsorship, ground sponsorship) and some areas where costs could be cut including playing 'deadwood'. Sometimes, it only needs a slightly more fresh approach and bingo !

[imy9]

Loook at the club just pre sale to Venky's.

More or less operationally breaking even, a manageable overdraft, rich in young playing talent and an experienced management team in place.

Tweaks were needed only. IMO, despite JW & TF there have always been some areas were commercial income could be maximised more (eg shirt sponsorship, ground sponsorship) and some areas where costs could be cut including playing 'deadwood'. Sometimes, it only needs a slightly more fresh approach and bingo !

If that was the case why after four years did we end up with Ali Syed- the con man and Venkys- we don't know anything about football and as our two leading owners?

[Fife Rover]

I can't see them closing the club - the money they'd get off selling Ewood and Brockhall isn't nearly as high as the money they'd get off selling a Premier League or Championship club. The bad publicity is just gravy on top of that.

Generally you only shut down a business unit if there is seriously no way it will ever make you any money ever again. Rovers are still a salable asset - I don't see that changing any time soon. Now, if Venky's try the (semi)intentional relegation route, Rovers go down to the Championship, a new owner cannot be found, and Rovers, like Charlton before them, freefall into League One, THEN the real estate might be more valuable than the club, and it could be wound up. But Venky's would somehow have to get Blackburn Council to agree to allow the land to be repurposed, and I can't see that happening.

Oh I am not so sure about that DP.......50 years ago that would be so; but now??? Ways and means?

[yoda]

[/b]Oh I am not so sure about that DP.......50 years ago that would be so; but now??? Ways and means?

I thought Jack Walker had covenants placed on Ewood and Brockhall so that they could only be used as a football club

[PAFELL]

Until we can find a way of damaging venkys brand, especailly in India, which they want to protect. Venkys will not sell the club. Owning a football club, at this moment helps their brand. They really are a stubbon bunch, protests here, media articles in India and still they continue doing what they want for their own benefit and not the clubs.