[Archived] How Blackburn have collapsed into chaos

[Amo]

They didn't.

Topman you are sounding a little immature, a lot churlish and really spoiled. Under the Trust we got promoted back to the Prem, won the Worthy cup, had numerous encounters in Europe, figured in some memorable semi finals and genarally finished top half of the Prem. We were lucky to be able to watch real quality in the likes of Tugay, Friedel, Bellamy, Berkovitch, Macarthy, Duff, Bentley, Samba etc. Name any other club away from the big city clubs who could boast that record? In fact lots of the big city clubs will envy our record. Quite by coincidence we played one such club today and there's another due to turn up a week Wednesday.

The Trust kept us on the straight and narrow but ultimately let the club decline on the pitch, which is why Hughes jumped ship when they wouldn't even give him £4m for Lassana Diarra, another Sparky signing who would've had massive resale value (as proven when he was later sold for £20m+ to Real Madrid). You call that support? I call that being stingy buggers who, like I say, had no interest in the club other than doing the bare minimum to keep it afloat. Also, why you praising THEM for all the astute signings we've made over the years? How much of that actually came out of their own pocket? And were they scouting football talent now? I thought that was the manager's call?

We spent precisely ZERO in their last season (and spending from previous seasons was negative), which is strange considering we received money for Benni McCarthy that year - which magically disappeared when JW said it was there to be spent.

[thenodrog]

The Trust kept us on the straight and narrow but ultimately let the club decline on the pitch, which is why Hughes jumped ship when they wouldn't even give him £4m for Lassana Diarra, another Sparky signing who would've had massive resale value (as proven when he was later sold for £20m+ to Real Madrid). You call that support? I call that being stingy buggers who, like I say, had no interest in the club other than doing the bare minimum to keep it afloat. Also, why you praising THEM for all the astute signings we've made over the years? How much of that actually came out of their own pocket? And were they scouting football talent now? I thought that was the manager's call?

We spent precisely ZERO in their last season (and spending from previous seasons was negative), which is strange considering we received money for Benni McCarthy that year - which magically disappeared when JW said it was there to be spent.

Topman it seems like you have an entrenched view on this. May I repeat my question which you have ignored and which I addressed to both Rev and yourself....

If you were the individual responsible for administrating the Walker Trust would you have advised "investing" (theres that daft word again ) ever more of their family wealth into BRFC having been informed that the realistic value of the club was between 20m and 30m? Especially in the knowledge that the individuals who the club had been left to had absolutely NO interest in the club and also that the club was running along mid table and in very safe hands?.

I'll give you a clue here. If you did you would soon be relieved of your duties!

btw I have a little more knowledge of the above Trust situation than I am prepared to divulge publically on here but safe to say that what might have appeared a strange decision by Jack Walker and his advisor(s) in setting up the mechanics of the legacy of the whole trust was actually done for a very very good reason (imo).

Williams and Allardyce frequently said that their instruction was simple... 'avoid relegation'. Personally I always got the feeling that if relegation became likely that money would have been found to assist. Rem please that money was found for Andy Cole for just that reason when Souness was floundering and that Hughes received funding in his first season after Souness had left us with a p1sspoor squad. BRFC in the Championship would have had to be given away and David Brown knew that well enough.

Look at the entire issue another way, you have a house for sale that is worth 300k and no more and you have 2/3 interested who have bid the asking price. Do you then spend 30k on a new kitchen knowing full well that you wont get any more for the house? Course you wouldn't.

As for the Diarra issue?

1. I seem to rem the figure from Spurs was 6-7m plus a very high wage demand from the player (that might have caused upset here).

2. We were competing for his sig with Portsmouth who at that time under Guydamak or Mandaric were throwing money about with complete irresponsibility .... and we all know what happened to them so well done to the Trust for that one. Sure they made a profit on selling him to Real M but no one could foresee that and only history is telling us that now, (btw had Spurs introduced a sell on clause perhaps?).

3. I posted at the time that finishing regularly 6th-9th on our budget was incredible and that attempting any improvement would have been foolhardy cos whilst UEFA entry is good fun it makes no money and it would have cost serious money to crack into the top 4 as we would have been competing with billionaire funded mega clubs. Look what Abromovich has blown, look at the debt that MU and Liverpool have amassed and which hopefully one day might cripple them, look what it's cost the Ayrabs at City to crack the top 4 and finally look at LUFC. Like Icarus they blew the lot by trying to fly too high. Top 4 is simply beyond us Topman. It's way beyond the Walker wealth and it's unreasonable of you and Simon and the entire content of the Blackburn End to expect it.

[Stuart]

It's not just about Diarra though, Theno. It's about The Trust not backing Mark Hughes in the transfer window despite his obvious talent from bringing in talent at low cost, keep them fit and inspire them to great things.

Failure to back him meant he wanted to leave. From that moment on we have been going backwards. Extraordinarily Allardyce achieved a flattering last day bounce to finish top 10 when it could have easily have been a creditable 13th.

Was there an alternative? Sure, the trust could have said, you can't have Diarra because we won't compete with Portsmouth's suicide mission but let's have a look at the other players there on your list.

They didn't and the rest is history.

[jim mk2]

It's not just about Diarra though, Theno. It's about The Trust not backing Mark Hughes in the transfer window despite his obvious talent from bringing in talent at low cost, keep them fit and inspire them to great things.

Don't you think Hughes would have left anyway with the fabulous wealth on offer at Man City ? The Trust were guilty of not backing him but we had a more than adequate replacement in Sam.

[Stuart]

Don't you think Hughes would have left anyway with the fabulous wealth on offer at Man City ? The Trust were guilty of not backing him but we had a more than adequate replacement in Sam.

The replacement was Ince. Sam did an amazing job in the circumstances (both seasons) but I'd sooner have kept Mark Hughes.

Hughes fell out with the club and had his head turned by Newcastle. Not a much better bet than QPR, or even Rovers, really.

When City came in I suspect that had something more to do with his agent touting him as a gamble worth taking rather than Hughes being their man. It's not as though they backed him over the players.

We were Hughes' level and he nearly took us places. It's all well people saying that the Champions League costs too much to get there but it's all relative. Swansea would be delighted with a mid table finish, even though they have no financial right to expect it. Even on our budget Hughes almost got us to top 4 so who knows what might have been?

[jim mk2]

We were Hughes' level and he nearly took us places. It's all well people saying that the Champions League costs too much to get there but it's all relative. Swansea would be delighted with a mid table finish, even though they have no financial right to expect it. Even on our budget Hughes almost got us to top 4 so who knows what might have been?

Hughes was never going to stay at Rovers - he was ambitious and had taken the club as far as he could go given the money available to him. I think even if the Trust had backed him further he would have left once a "big" club came in for him. Unfortunately he tarnished his reputation with poor spending at City and after leaving Fulham has gained a reputation within the game for being difficult. QPR is his chance to rebuild his career - from my point of view it's a shame it such a poxy club and a London club to boot.

[Tris]

And I still don't think Williams & Finn should get a free pass for selling their silence when they evidently had concerns about the way the club was being run.

I think it's very harsh to make that allegation against two fantastic club servants when you can't possibly back it up.

Regardless of whether any money was involved in their departures or not, it is totally normal practice to include a confidentiality clause when an employee leaves a company in any sector of business - and it's legally binding irrespective of any payment associated with the departure. This is what I've recently had to sign --

It is Company Policy to remind you that you must not, either during your remaining employment with the Company or at any time after its termination, use (other than for the purposes of the Company) or disclose to any person whatsoever (except the proper officers of the Company whose duty is to know such information) any confidential information relating to the business, its technical processes, designs, finances, partership relationships, prices, business strategy or price sensitive information of the Company or any company in the ****** plc group which you may during the course of your employment have possessed.

You are required to keep the terms of this letter and its attachments confidential and you are also required to refrain from making any disparaging or derogatory statements or remarks concerning the Company or any company in the ****** plc group.

There's something similarly worded and similarly binding in the contract of employment I signed in the first place as well.

Totally standard practice, so IMO it's bang out of order to allege that any former employees of BRFC have "sold their silence" - especially in such a media-scrutinised industry like PL football - people could seriously damage their future careers and prospects by publically breaking the binding terms of a former contract of employment or subsequent termination agreement.

[OscarRaven]

I think the trust did a fantastic job, providing a model any prospective buyer could build on and enhance. They had one simple goal, the same goal Jack had in the years leading up to his death - for the club to be run in a sustainable manner. They never quite achieved this, frequently having to GIVE money to keep the club going and avoid relegation. Let’s be clear until the sale they never took a penny out of the club.

So Trust bashing is really unwarranted in my eyes. Where they have fallen down is selling to the wrong people, but isn't hindsight a great thing. They heard mostly the same things as us - modest promises. Subsequently broken. My only gripe with the trust is, why put caveats into the deal when they had no real intention of following up on them? Clearly all wind and P!ss for the benefit of easing the worries of supporters and facilitating the transfer of ownership.

It is also rumoured the Rao family only wanted to 'invest' £3-5m a year and have the business "run itself" with a single person responsible locally for the business reporting into Pune. What an absolute disaster it is then that they chose to systematically dismantle the club in the way they did. Tinkering for tinkering's sake it would appear as there is clearly no inclination to be 'hands on' anymore.

Sam always had to go, he was too outspoken and would not have been able to fit the owners 'model' after all Sam liked his footballers somewhat more experienced and would have walked if he could not pick the transfers and given such a modest budget anyway. I can see the rationale in dispensing with him although not the timing or choice of replacement.

Everything points at Venky's wanting to be very hands on initially however this very much seems to have changed and they have chosen to go back into hiding. No doubt a result of the stark realities of how woefully inadequate they and Steve Kean are to run a premier league operation and of course the high profile protests against them.

So where from here? The Supporters are the life blood and have been very much abused but bluntly as a collective they have memories similar to Goldfish.

It really is very simple to me; An apology, a clear communication of the 'Venky' vision and a more orthodox club management structure.

The owners must apologise to the fans - they got it wrong and made mistakes, they must to admit this if we are to move on. The supporters must accept this, cancel the protests against Venky's and consider the slate wiped clean. They also need to accept that the owners can hire and fire who they like.

The owners should have open a dialogue with the fans, it doesn't have to be a massive town hall meeting but regular open discussion within a confidential framework about the direction they are hoping to take the club. In fact if they implement a more conventional management structure they don't really have to do it themselves! The fans must accept that this may be limited and not the full disclosure they would like.

The owners should implement a CEO and/or chairperson and board of directors to whom ALL UK based employees must ultimately report including the manager. The supporters must accept that the owners have the right to veto the termination / appointment of any manager. The manager, CEO/Chairperson and even a representative of the fans could travel to Pune regularly for face to face discussions if so desired.

But none of this helps what is on most of our minds, success on the field but if we can at least stop the respective circus' of mismanagement and protests then perhaps the players and the manager (however disliked and questionable his approach) can focus on what is the most important thing to all of us - Premier league points.

So come on Venky's lets sort this out - come to the table, stick to your promises and let’s get on with restoring the proud name of Blackburn Rovers.

[John]

The problem we have got is the major lack of understanding of football and how a successful football club should operate - they just don't get it, still to this day.

They probably are not sure who they can turn to at this moment in time, as they certainly won't have the answers themselves.

Also finance is clearly a massive problem, the cost frightens them and currently there is no spare cash.

There are too many fundamentals for there to be any quick change.

[Kelbo]

I think it's very harsh to make that allegation against two fantastic club servants when you can't possibly back it up.

Regardless of whether any money was involved in their departures or not, it is totally normal practice to include a confidentiality clause when an employee leaves a company in any sector of business - and it's legally binding irrespective of any payment associated with the departure. This is what I've recently had to sign --

There's something similarly worded and similarly binding in the contract of employment I signed in the first place as well.

Totally standard practice, so IMO it's bang out of order to allege that any former employees of BRFC have "sold their silence" - especially in such a media-scrutinised industry like PL football - people could seriously damage their future careers and prospects by publically breaking the binding terms of a former contract of employment or subsequent termination agreement.

Yes I think thats 100% spot on, my only observation would be this, I think Keegan left Newcastle saying that the job was 'Not like it was written in the Brochure'

[Ozz]

Don't usually get involved ...but Topman-forget the ingredients, just taste the pie.

Under the trust we had our most successful period as a team in many a generation. I suspect if we in Jan 2012 we were still operating in the Allardyce/Trust regime we would be thinking about top half finishes and not impending relegation.

Other than the 4 years 92-96.But the was Jacks work too,

[47er]

I think the trust did a fantastic job, providing a model any prospective buyer could build on and enhance. They had one simple goal, the same goal Jack had in the years leading up to his death - for the club to be run in a sustainable manner. They never quite achieved this, frequently having to GIVE money to keep the club going and avoid relegation. Let’s be clear until the sale they never took a penny out of the club.

So Trust bashing is really unwarranted in my eyes. Where they have fallen down is selling to the wrong people, but isn't hindsight a great thing. They heard mostly the same things as us - modest promises. Subsequently broken. My only gripe with the trust is, why put caveats into the deal when they had no real intention of following up on them? Clearly all wind and P!ss for the benefit of easing the worries of supporters and facilitating the transfer of ownership.

It is also rumoured the Rao family only wanted to 'invest' £3-5m a year and have the business "run itself" with a single person responsible locally for the business reporting into Pune. What an absolute disaster it is then that they chose to systematically dismantle the club in the way they did. Tinkering for tinkering's sake it would appear as there is clearly no inclination to be 'hands on' anymore.

Sam always had to go, he was too outspoken and would not have been able to fit the owners 'model' after all Sam liked his footballers somewhat more experienced and would have walked if he could not pick the transfers and given such a modest budget anyway. I can see the rationale in dispensing with him although not the timing or choice of replacement.

Everything points at Venky's wanting to be very hands on initially however this very much seems to have changed and they have chosen to go back into hiding. No doubt a result of the stark realities of how woefully inadequate they and Steve Kean are to run a premier league operation and of course the high profile protests against them.

So where from here? The Supporters are the life blood and have been very much abused but bluntly as a collective they have memories similar to Goldfish.

It really is very simple to me; An apology, a clear communication of the 'Venky' vision and a more orthodox club management structure.

The owners must apologise to the fans - they got it wrong and made mistakes, they must to admit this if we are to move on. The supporters must accept this, cancel the protests against Venky's and consider the slate wiped clean. They also need to accept that the owners can hire and fire who they like.

The owners should have open a dialogue with the fans, it doesn't have to be a massive town hall meeting but regular open discussion within a confidential framework about the direction they are hoping to take the club. In fact if they implement a more conventional management structure they don't really have to do it themselves! The fans must accept that this may be limited and not the full disclosure they would like.

The owners should implement a CEO and/or chairperson and board of directors to whom ALL UK based employees must ultimately report including the manager. The supporters must accept that the owners have the right to veto the termination / appointment of any manager. The manager, CEO/Chairperson and even a representative of the fans could travel to Pune regularly for face to face discussions if so desired.

But none of this helps what is on most of our minds, success on the field but if we can at least stop the respective circus' of mismanagement and protests then perhaps the players and the manager (however disliked and questionable his approach) can focus on what is the most important thing to all of us - Premier league points.

So come on Venky's lets sort this out - come to the table, stick to your promises and let’s get on with restoring the proud name of Blackburn Rovers.

Takes two to tango and all that. No sign that Venkys are even considering the approach you advocate. P***ing in the wind I'm afraid.

[Athlete]

So where from here? The Supporters are the life blood and have been very much abused but bluntly as a collective they have memories similar to Goldfish.

It really is very simple to me; An apology, a clear communication of the 'Venky' vision and a more orthodox club management structure.

The owners must apologise to the fans - they got it wrong and made mistakes, they must to admit this if we are to move on. The supporters must accept this, cancel the protests against Venky's and consider the slate wiped clean. They also need to accept that the owners can hire and fire who they like.

The owners should have open a dialogue with the fans, it doesn't have to be a massive town hall meeting but regular open discussion within a confidential framework about the direction they are hoping to take the club. In fact if they implement a more conventional management structure they don't really have to do it themselves! The fans must accept that this may be limited and not the full disclosure they would like.

The owners should implement a CEO and/or chairperson and board of directors to whom ALL UK based employees must ultimately report including the manager. The supporters must accept that the owners have the right to veto the termination / appointment of any manager. The manager, CEO/Chairperson and even a representative of the fans could travel to Pune regularly for face to face discussions if so desired.

But none of this helps what is on most of our minds, success on the field but if we can at least stop the respective circus' of mismanagement and protests then perhaps the players and the manager (however disliked and questionable his approach) can focus on what is the most important thing to all of us - Premier league points.

So come on Venky's lets sort this out - come to the table, stick to your promises and let’s get on with restoring the proud name of Blackburn Rovers.

they dont seem too want too sort it out...

[John]

Don't know why people keep saying the line, "we need to hear their plans for the club"

The Rao family don't have a clue what they are doing, there is no plan/vision - they can't communicate because they don't understand football.

[Stuart]

The owners must apologise to the fans - they got it wrong and made mistakes, they must to admit this if we are to move on. The supporters must accept this, cancel the protests against Venky's and consider the slate wiped clean. They also need to accept that the owners can hire and fire who they like.

This is a great idea. How do we make it happen?

It never will.

[Athlete]

Don't know people keep saying the line, "we need to hear their plans for the club"

The Rao family don't have a clue what they are doing, there is no plan/vision - they can't communicate because they don't understand football.

Formica being shunted on...Birmingham want 2 million on the Dann installment payment by end of the week just as we thought it couldnt get worse ..IT DOES VENKYS OUT

[Devon Rover]

Don't know people keep saying the line, "we need to hear their plans for the club"

The Rao family don't have a clue what they are doing, there is no plan/vision - they can't communicate because they don't understand football.

Yes. I think the only 'vision' they had for the club's future will have been sold to them by Kentaro- and proved to be unachievable/ a lie. Now I don't believe they have a plan other than just to creep through without coming under too much pressure and somehow avoiding relegation long enough to use their ownership of a Premier League club as a springboard for success in other business areas.

I don't believe they have any interest whatsoever in the football club's success other than to avoid relegation if possible. Therefore I can't agree with those looking for Venkys to rebuild bridges- it is not going to happen.

[John]

Yes. I think the only 'vision' they had for the club's future will have been sold to them by Kentaro- and proved to be unachievable/ a lie. Now I don't believe they have a plan other than just to creep through without coming under too much pressure and somehow avoiding relegation long enough to use their ownership of a Premier League club as a springboard for success in other business areas.

I don't believe they have any interest whatsoever in the football club's success other than to avoid relegation if possible. Therefore I can't agree with those looking for Venkys to rebuild bridges- it is not going to happen.

The whole idea was sold to them by Kentaro - the view from the boardroom in the summer was avoiding relegation would be a massive success. At that time, the reality of finances/cost also hit home.

Who do you think put the assurances together in the infamous document?

[philipl]

I understand we are going to see a pointer of things to come tomorrow.

And it is not a nice pointer.

The financial screws are being applied from Pune and hard.

[Stuart]

I understand we are going to see a pointer of things to come tomorrow.

And it is not a nice pointer.

The financial screws are being applied from Pune and hard.

Turning the floodlights off?

Seriously, what else can they do to save money?

[Athlete]

How close to admin are we ?

[Stuart]

Northern Rover

On Venky's share price tomorrow. Also had 2 calls from venky's PR who are not happy. #fightbackbegins.

Northern Rover

Direct Hit. The india article discussed on two flag ship business programmes in India, analysts savage Venky's and suggest negative impact

[Doug]

Well, sounds like we should adopt the brace position!

[Dansher1dan]

what is this pointer PHILIPL

[Mercer]

From Twitter - unfortunately, these noises are emanting from too many sources for there not to be something in it:

Rovers_4_LifeVenkys & Kean Out

Barclays want £10m, Brum want Dann payment, and players want due wages, all by next week. No indication of money coming from Venkys.

Rovers_4_LifeVenkys & Kean Out

#Rovers fans need to realise that it wouldn't matter if we were top of the league, the club is in financial meltdown thanks to the Venkys.