[Archived] Blackburn Football Investment Fund

[Tugay-is-God]

http://blackburnfootball.blogspot.com/

Interesting idea proposed by Wayne Wild of the WEC group.

With a business plan outlined here: http://daniellouisgrabko.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/blackburn-rovers-football-fund-proposal-v-2-1.pdf

Anyone think this could get off the ground?

[Paul]

Elsewhere Wayne Wild refers to his own upbringing, the financial pressure many Blackburn folk face at present etc. and then suggests fans stump up £10000 to buy a share in the club.

I could find that cash if necessary but it would not be easy Would I? Absolutely not. The idea is very good, the level of cash input suggests a lack of understanding of the financial position of most football fans. I'm surprised by that.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

http://blackburnfootball.blogspot.com/

Interesting idea proposed by Wayne Wild of the WEC group.

With a business plan outlined here: Blackburn Football Charitable Investment Fund Proposal 1.1

Anyone think this could get off the ground?

That is a outdated link, TiG! here is the latest version of the document: Blackburn Football Charitable Investment Fund Proposal 1.1

I have corrected your link. You can read the rest of this thread for the discussion we've already had here about it...

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Elsewhere Wayne Wild refers to his own upbringing, the financial pressure many Blackburn folk face at present etc. and then suggests fans stump up £10000 to buy a share in the club.

I could find that cash if necessary but it would not be easy Would I? Absolutely not. The idea is very good, the level of cash input suggests a lack of understanding of the financial position of most football fans. I'm surprised by that.

Paul, this is a very fair comment, and I want to emphasize that this document is my creation, not Wayne's - AND that as stated many times the investment levels are very scalable. I worked with Wayne to try to convey the message that this was just one proposed investment level per share, not the final set in stone plan. It is hard to get all the information in there when you are trying to be as short as possible to keep the reading down to a minimum.

Please don't try to turn the example investment share price against Wayne somehow...it is ridiculous to suggest that Wayne is disconnected or out of touch from the average Rovers supporter in this way.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Moderators, could you possibly merge this thread with the original?

[Paul]

Please don't try to turn the example investment share price against Wayne somehow...it is ridiculous to suggest that Wayne is disconnected or out of touch from the average Rovers supporter in this way.

Just to be clear I would never try to turn something against an individual, it's not my way but I do question things when I have doubts about them.

I discussed this with another fan yesterday. I think the feeling was one off payments could be found but continuing monthly payments would be difficult. Personally I would be 100% behind a community based ownership of Rovers with shareholders having the power to elect a board to run the club. I would invest in this but it isn't an investment, it's a gift because it would not be returned in my life time.

The idea is marvellous but I feel it was a major error to put a figure of £10,800 in the public domain as the starting amount. This is out if reach for the majority and frankly many people from the Bkackburn area should have better things to do with £10000, no matter how much they love the club.

I'm not trying to undermine Wayne or anyone else but this idea has been floated with a price many will dismiss from the start. If this figure gets out as the entry level you would face uphill battle from the start if this ever got off the ground.

I can make a good guess at what is going on in the background and those involved need to be careful.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Just to be clear I would never try to turn something against an individual, it's not my way but I do question things when I have doubts about them.

I discussed this with another fan yesterday. I think the feeling was one off payments could be found but continuing monthly payments would be difficult. Personally I would be 100% behind a community based ownership of Rovers with shareholders having the power to elect a board to run the club. I would invest in this but it isn't an investment, it's a gift because it would not be returned in my life time.

The idea is marvellous but I feel it was a major error to put a figure of £10,800 in the public domain as the starting amount. This is out if reach for the majority and frankly many people from the Bkackburn area should have better things to do with £10000, no matter how much they love the club.

I'm not trying to undermine Wayne or anyone else but this idea has been floated with a price many will dismiss from the start. If this figure gets out as the entry level you would face uphill battle from the start if this ever got off the ground.

I can make a good guess at what is going on in the background and those involved need to be careful.

Fair enough, Paul, but as the creator of the concept and the proposal, I would like to know what your good guess is as to what is going on in the background. I advocate full transparency both for how the Fund works, its motivations and intentions, and expect the same from any criticism it might receive, whether it be constructive or otherwise. So please feel free to express this concern of yours in a clear and concise way. I honestly can't think of what you might be trying to hint at with that statement.

Have you read the Fund's website? It is in my signature.

[47er]

Even if that was the minimum investment available there would be nothing to prevent say 10 people forking out just over a grand each would there? Syndicates could be advertised here and individuals could simply join one.

Times are hard I know but they'd be harder without Rovers.

Personally I hope something comes of it and we get our Rovers back.

[Paul]

Fair enough, Paul, but as the creator of the concept and the proposal, I would like to know what your good guess is as to what is going on in the background.

This is very, very difficult because I absolutely do not want to begin rumours or put words into people's mouths. What I will say is this, and I have nothing whatsoever against the idea if I'm right, I will not be surprised if a locally based business group makes a bid for the club.

There are well-connected people who support Rovers who could have access to sufficient funds to buy the club. Those people appear to have real financial and football experience. I believe this may already be happening but I don't expect to see a public move until the club is relegated or in administration. To be blunt it has little value now except it's PL status, once that is gone a prospective buyer would have a strong argument for a low bid to be accepted. There is no point in paying a high price for something which will be worth little in a few months.

Of course the problem is not buying a club but having the financial resource to run it.

Therefore I wonder to what extent the proposal in this thread is testing the water for such a move.

I have to stress these are nothing more than my thoughts and conjecture.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Even if that was the minimum investment available there would be nothing to prevent say 10 people forking out just over a grand each would there? Syndicates could be advertised here and individuals could simply join one.

Times are hard I know but they'd be harder without Rovers.

Personally I hope something comes of it and we get our Rovers back.

No there wouldn't be any problem with that at all, 47er. That is achieving the exact same thing as scaling down the price and upping the share number, just done from the investors' side instead of the Fund's. Though it would probably be easier just scale it so it would be attractive to the individual without the need for going in on a share together with others.

I would encourage this discussion to move to the original thread, here. There is already a great discussion going on there about this.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

This is very, very difficult because I absolutely do not want to begin rumours or put words into people's mouths. What I will say is this, and I have nothing whatsoever against the idea if I'm right, I will not be surprised if a locally based business group makes a bid for the club.

There are well-connected people who support Rovers who could have access to sufficient funds to buy the club. Those people appear to have real financial and football experience. I believe this may already be happening but I don't expect to see a public move until the club is relegated or in administration. To be blunt it has little value now except it's PL status, once that is gone a prospective buyer would have a strong argument for a low bid to be accepted. There is no point in paying a high price for something which will be worth little in a few months.

Of course the problem is not buying a club but having the financial resource to run it.

Therefore I wonder to what extent the proposal in this thread is testing the water for such a move.

I have to stress these are nothing more than my thoughts and conjecture.

Thanks for the clarification, Paul. I can tell you that whilst I have not been made aware of any such consortium, I can say that a combination of investment by supporters and local businesses/businessmen would be a mutually great match for the club.

You are absolutely correct in saying that the club is not worth very much right now except for its PL status. That is actually covered in the proposal document, if you plan on reading it.

The basic gist of it is raising capital in an investment fund that will be able to subsidize the Club while remaining self sustainable through interest and investment vehicle income, and even pay out a small dividend and give back to the community through a generous charitable giving budget, and create a governance structure that puts the supporters and the community in control of the club.

As such, any local consortium that could join forces with a large popular, global supporters backing would be right in line with what the Fund is trying to achieve.

[Sparky Marky]

Local people local club....not sure where you fit in Dan.

[Paul]

. That is actually covered in the proposal document, if you plan on reading it.

So far I've only glanced at it. Later I plan to read it thoroughly. Any other comments best go in the other thread!!

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Local people local club....not sure where you fit in Dan.

Really??? So the club that I have loved and supported from the moment I have been old enough to make a conscious choice in the matter, does not have a place for me, because I wasn't born there? You mean that if I had been born and raised in East Lancashire then I would have license to try to help the club I support, but since that is not the case I should be excluded? Or is this a post-Venkys attitude of mistrust from the outside world? What exactly or you trying to say - and why don't you just come right out and say it then?

I guess Simon Garner shouldn't have been allowed to score 190-odd goals for Rovers, or to express his views on the current situation? From what I recall, he was born and raised in Boston, right? If you can't contribute constructively, why even take the time out of your day?

[OhmiBRFC]

I'd love to sign up. But there's no way me & my wife can afford that amount of money.

[Sparky Marky]

I guess Simon Garner shouldn't have been allowed to score 190-odd goals for Rovers, or to express his views on the current situation? From what I recall, he was born and raised in Boston, right? If you can't contribute constructively, why even take the time out of your day?

So you are comparing your contribution to the club to Simon Garners....he earned the right to have an opinion.

Ive been on here for 8 years and I sure don't remember you prior to the last 2 weeks.......parasite.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

I'd love to sign up. But there's no way me & my wife can afford that amount of money.

That is valuable feedback, Ohmi! Go tell us that at blackburnfootball.blogspot.com

[Paul Mellelieu]

So you are comparing your contribution to the club to Simon Garners....he earned the right to have an opinion.

Ive been on here for 8 years and I sure don't remember you prior to the last 2 weeks.......parasite.

Says the man in Manhattan.

The lad's a Rover and taken time to do this work. Good for him.

[Sysagent]

Agreed Paul M!

At least some people are taking a pro-active attitude to the situation we now find our Club in as opposed to throwing the towel in and thinking it is now just a matter of time before Rover's disappears...

Dan depending on the timescale and depending on the input required I could probably put myself in debt another £1000 to help the fund, but it would be a debt that I would have to shoulder and I assume a lot of other fans would be in a similar predicament.

[Paul]

So you are comparing your contribution to the club to Simon Garners....he earned the right to have an opinion.

Ive been on here for 8 years and I sure don't remember you prior to the last 2 weeks.......parasite.

You have been completely out of order with your posts in recent days and this is just another example.

[OhmiBRFC]

That is valuable feedback, Ohmi! Go tell us that at blackburnfootball.blogspot.com

We've spoke about it but I start Uni in April so we're having to make cut backs. Hopefully enough people get involved because it's something I absolutely agree with and behind.

[glen9mullan]

Agreed Paul M!

At least some people are taking a pro-active attitude to the situation we now find our Club in as opposed to throwing the towel in and thinking it is now just a matter of time before Rover's disappears...

Dan depending on the timescale and depending on the input required I could probably put myself in debt another £1000 to help the fund, but it would be a debt that I would have to shoulder and I assume a lot of other fans would be in a similar predicament.

this

[Sparky Marky]

Says the man in Manhattan.

The lad's a Rover and taken time to do this work. Good for him.

Manhattan nr. Chorley .

Forgot to change it.....

[47er]

So you are comparing your contribution to the club to Simon Garners....he earned the right to have an opinion.

Ive been on here for 8 years and I sure don't remember you prior to the last 2 weeks.......parasite.

I really can't believe you wrote that. Dan's obviously put a lot of time and effort into something which could help the club. A business consortium might or might not render his contribution unnecessary but only time will tell us that.

Why so hostile? I don't get it. Plenty of Rovers fans exist around UK and the rest of the world who have no other connection with Blackburn. We should welcome that. We are not exactly overrun with fans are we?

Wayne Wild apparently accepts him as a fan but you don't!

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

So you are comparing your contribution to the club to Simon Garners....he earned the right to have an opinion.

Ive been on here for 8 years and I sure don't remember you prior to the last 2 weeks.......parasite.

You know very well I am not making that kind of comparison, Sparky Marky. Presumptuous would not begin to describe it, if I were. I wonder if in your ignorant attitude you ever even clicked on my profile to check me out before you made such a comment...this is not the only place to have been an active online presence in regards to Rovers. What would I be a parasite of, by the way? If you are insinuating that I could in some way personally profit from my proposal, you are sorely mistaken.

I didn't want to mention that you are thousands of kilometers farther away from Blackburn than I am, but since someone else already pointed it out, who are you to talk? Some years on an internet forum have given you authority to comment on who is a real supporter? Especially about being a local when you are across the Atlantic... if you are an expat, let's follow your logic and ask te question, "Why did you abandon your town and club then?" Maybe the New York rudeness has seeped into you from being there too long.

Ok, I see you meant THAT Manhattan, so disregard the last paragaph, but still...