[Archived] The Standard of refereeing

[arbitro]

I can also assure you that having met and chatted to Mark a number of times, he is certainly not a Bolton Wanderers fan, or any fan of a Premiership team for that matter.

Sorry John but you are wrong. When he lived in Welwyn Garden City he supported QPR (I have heard that from his own lips on several occasions) and now he refers to Bolton as us. He used to write in their programme and mentioned Bolton as us on several occasions until Rick Parry read it and reported it. I'm not accusing him of bias but questioning the sense in appointing a referee who actually trains with Bolton (thereby spending lots of time with their players and management) refereeing one of their rivals for relegation. I would say the same if it was Wigan or Wolves.

[John Howarth]

Sorry John but you are wrong. When he lived in Welwyn Garden City he supported QPR (I have heard that from his own lips on several occasions) and now he refers to Bolton as us. He used to write in their programme and mentioned Bolton as us on several occasions until Rick Parry read it and reported it. I'm not accusing him of bias but questioning the sense in appointing a referee who actually trains with Bolton (thereby spending lots of time with their players and management) refereeing one of their rivals for relegation. I would say the same if it was Wigan or Wolves.

If you are that concerned about the neutrality of Mark Halsey, maybe you should be contacting Mike Riley of the Professional Game Match Officials Board and pass on your information. I'm sure he will be very interested to learn of your information

[arbitro]

If you are that concerned about the neutrality of Mark Halsey, maybe you should be contacting Mike Riley of the Professional Game Match Officials Board and pass on your information. I'm sure he will be very interested to learn of your information

I refer you to my last paragraph. I will reiterate that he shouldn't be put in a position where he COULD be compromised. Keren Barratt does the appointments btw.

[JAL]

Didn't Eddie Wolstenholme used to train with Rovers?

Maybe but if so, Eddie is a Preston fan afterall so does it really matter.

[arbitro]

Maybe but if so, Eddie is a Preston fan afterall so does it really matter.

Bang on there mate

[John Howarth]

I refer you to my last paragraph. I will reiterate that he shouldn't be put in a position where he COULD be compromised. Keren Barratt does the appointments btw.

Keren is currently assessing referees. Mike Riley chooses the referees for the Premiership and David Alison for the Fooyball League. I will pass your concerns on to Mark Halsey the next time I see him.

[JAL]

Bang on there mate

Heard noises that Eddie has gone working or assisting with the PGMOL or whatever they are called any truth in this?

[thenodrog]

If you are that concerned about the neutrality of Mark Halsey, maybe you should be contacting Mike Riley of the Professional Game Match Officials Board and pass on your information. I'm sure he will be very interested to learn of your information

Riley?? Riley seemed to hate us too! My heart sunk every time I saw him walk out at Ewood. Shocking that the most inept referee in the past decade is employed in a role like that.

btw Wasn't he one of the 1st referees sent home after poor displays in euro 2004?

[Stuart]

Maybe but if so, Eddie is a Preston fan afterall so does it really matter.

Once a Blackburner, always a Blackburner.

[JAL]

Once a Blackburner, always a Blackburner.

Who's a Blackburner as Eddie isnt

[Stuart]

Who's a Blackburner as Eddie isnt

My mistake then. I thought he lived in Blackburn.

I bow to your greater knowledge JAL.

[arbitro]

You are wrong about Keren. He was at Everton yesterday as a Select Group manager and the assessor was Dave Horlick. Mike Riley does not do the Select Group appointments Keren does and Paul Rejer does the assistants. You are right about Dave Allison though.

[JAL]

My mistake then. I thought he lived in Blackburn.

He does or did Stuart but that doesnt mean to say hes from here .

[Tom]

Drenthe just booked for a tackle with more force and higher than Yakubus.

Consistency is key

[thenodrog]

Drenthe just booked for a tackle with more force and higher than Yakubus.

Consistency is key

Ekotu got away with a shocker on Di Santo right under the refs nose .... at WHL of course.

Also Chelsea were 1-0 down and being outplayed at Swansea when the signal went out in the 2nd half to cut up rough. They did disgracefully and they got a point at the death. Old tactics still work best.

[thenodrog]

I'll start by saying that imo red cards should be avoided at all times as they leave any match situation unequal and in the main cheat the paying public out of watching a competative contest which as far as I am concerned should result in part or all of admission prices refunded.

Yesterday there were three red cards all of which had a massive and detrimantal effect on the matches and of which malice and violence was simply not a part of.

1. Gael Givets was the worst but imo it was harsh and probably a yellow imo. His studs were showing (the human ankle is not by design a universal joint and cannot be rotated 180 degrees) his feet were low and he was coming in from the front of the opposing player (Van persie) thereby giving Van Persie every chance to 'ride' the tackle. If any player in any team had pulled out of that challenge yesterday he'd have rightly had a rollocking from teammates, manager and supporters alike. (btw No action whatsoever on Rosicky's foul on Lowe btw which saw Lowe limp off)

Van Persie hammed it up, feigned injury but was fit enough to go on and produce two assists and complete his hat trick and Givet was red carded.

2. Stoke's Robert Huth went in fast and hard on Meyler as is required but when he realised that he was not going to get to the ball he pulled his foot back and bent his leg so that any contact would be minimal. He could do no more but Atkinson could not wait to reach for the red card.

Meyler hammed it up and feigned injury and Huth was red carded.

3. Djibril Cisse received by far the worst challenge of the three incidents from Roger Johnson. His standing foot was whipped away from behind. Referees and rule makers wont know this of course but these type of tackles can easily result in serious injury broken legs / ligament damage etc. Cisse got up in temper to remonstrate with Johnson, spun him around and for a second or two grabbed him by the throat. Johnson was given a yellow.

Cisse didn't feign injury had got straight to his feet and was rewarded for his honesty with a red card. If he'd play acted and cheated in an attempt to get Johnson red carded and as encouraged by the rule book he'd have stayed on and QPR could easily have gained a point or three. I'm sure that Cisse will now be instructed by Hughes / Bowen to do just that every time he is tackled. Reprehensible of course but who could blame them?

We're in a relegation battle and we've lost our top scorer for three matches for a collision from which he came out the better. No malice just poor timing and partly down to a foul (not given) on him a second beforehand which threw him off balance. Again Yak had to make an attempt for the ball. After contact Murphy laid down screaming and writhing. Yak was off and within seconds Murphy had made a miraculous recovery.

Now Ive no doubt John Howarth will come on here and give very well worded and valid reasons why the referees were right in each case but it's wrong. Very wrong. We all hate footballers feigning injury but this type of refereeing encourages it. The current rules and their application by are nothing but a cheats charter. It's all wrong. Sending offs were never intended to ruin the match or be a little bit stronger than a caution. They were for INTENTIONAL violent conduct to rid the match of thuggery. They have become a farce. Small wonder that I cannot enjoy the quality of play that Barca produce when everytime they lose possession the player goes to ground with a scream and the ref stops play and awards them posession again. As I said it's a cheats charter and one which is exploited cynically by the bigger clubs.

Given that video evidence will not be allowed and given that the game has speeded up at a faster rate than the quality of refereeing alternatives to ruining the spectator experience simply must be found. Whether it's a blue card for a compulsory substitution (carrying a heftier fine than a current red) or an orange one for a 10 min sin bin or both I don't care but something needs to be done.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

I can only comment on the Givet challenge as I havent seen the other two, but even from sitting in the away end, it was a definite red. Players know the rules. If you go in with two feet then you're going to get sent off. Challenges like that could break bones and therefore, by showing red cards, it should prevent such challenges from being committed. Yes it ruined the spectacle from our perspective but if that had broken RVP's ankle then you could equally say that by having him out for the rest of the season, that would also be depriving the paying customer. Givet deserved to be punished.

Every team will point to a couple of red cards that shouldn't have been shown, but Givet's wasn't even debatable.

The Yak's challenge was clumsy. Yes there was no intent, but players shouldn't be giving the referees the option of showing a red. We all know that having studs up or going in two footed is asking for a red to be issued, so they shouldn't do it.

The consistency between referees is the issue. Diving and simulation is obviously difficult to address and without video its virtually impossible.

*Also, it shouldn't be simply whether the player gets injured or not as to whether a red card is shown. Just because RVP wasn't injured in the Givet challenge doesn't mean a red card shouldn't have been shown. Likewise with Rosicky. It didn't look a bad challenge but Lowe was badly injured.

[arbitro]

I can only comment on the Givet challenge as I havent seen the other two, but even from sitting in the away end, it was a definite red. Players know the rules. If you go in with two feet then you're going to get sent off. Challenges like that could break bones and therefore, by showing red cards, it should prevent such challenges from being committed. Yes it ruined the spectacle from our perspective but if that had broken RVP's ankle then you could equally say that by having him out for the rest of the season, that would also be depriving the paying customer. Givet deserved to be punished.

Every team will point to a couple of red cards that shouldn't have been shown, but Givet's wasn't even debatable.

The Yak's challenge was clumsy. Yes there was no intent, but players shouldn't be giving the referees the option of showing a red. We all know that having studs up or going in two footed is asking for a red to be issued, so they shouldn't do it.

The consistency between referees is the issue. Diving and simulation is obviously difficult to address and without video its virtually impossible.

*Also, it shouldn't be simply whether the player gets injured or not as to whether a red card is shown. Just because RVP wasn't injured in the Givet challenge doesn't mean a red card shouldn't have been shown. Likewise with Rosicky. It didn't look a bad challenge but Lowe was badly injured.

Givets was a nailed on red card for me. In real time at the stadium I said stright away that he would get sent off. The real problem is the inconsistency that we see. On MOTD last night I saw a challenge that was a lot worse than Yaks (ironically against Fulham too) by Morrison of WBA (I think). It was six studs straight into is midriff in which scant regard was shown for his opponents safety. No action was taken.

If there was a consistent approach and we all knew where we stood then there wouldn't be as much cause for complaint. But every week we see very similar offences being treated differently.

[den]

Without getting into the argument of what should be a red card etc, Gord's right. It would be nice now and again for the ref to consider the paying fans. Fans pay an awful lot of money to watch what should be a tough, evenly balanced game. Far too many games are ruined by the ref's not taking that into consideration. Reds should only be issued as a last resort and they're not.

Having said that, they certainly don't apply their principles evenly and across the board. What's good enough for the smaller clubs, isn't judged in the same way for the bigger guys.

[thenodrog]

I can only comment on the Givet challenge as I havent seen the other two, but even from sitting in the away end, it was a definite red. Players know the rules. If you go in with two feet then you're going to get sent off. Challenges like that could break bones and therefore, by showing red cards, it should prevent such challenges from being committed. Yes it ruined the spectacle from our perspective but if that had broken RVP's ankle then you could equally say that by having him out for the rest of the season, that would also be depriving the paying customer. Givet deserved to be punished.

Every team will point to a couple of red cards that shouldn't have been shown, but Givet's wasn't even debatable.

The Yak's challenge was clumsy. Yes there was no intent, but players shouldn't be giving the referees the option of showing a red. We all know that having studs up or going in two footed is asking for a red to be issued, so they shouldn't do it.

The consistency between referees is the issue. Diving and simulation is obviously difficult to address and without video its virtually impossible.

*Also, it shouldn't be simply whether the player gets injured or not as to whether a red card is shown. Just because RVP wasn't injured in the Givet challenge doesn't mean a red card shouldn't have been shown. Likewise with Rosicky. It didn't look a bad challenge but Lowe was badly injured.

We'll obviously never agree mmlp. You appear to belong to the neutered, sanitised modern world where male sperm counts can be counted on the fingers of one hand whilst I come from the 'hard but fair' red blooded full fat school.

Maybe time I and my kind departed and sailed off into the sunset like the final chapter of Lord of the Rings and leave this world to mere mortals.

Just as a matter of interest how many one footed football players have you ever seen?

[thenodrog]

Givets was a nailed on red card for me. In real time at the stadium I said stright away that he would get sent off. The real problem is the inconsistency that we see. On MOTD last night I saw a challenge that was a lot worse than Yaks (ironically against Fulham too) by Morrison of WBA (I think). It was six studs straight into is midriff in which scant regard was shown for his opponents safety. No action was taken.

Somebody posted a link a while back to a BRFC match v Pompey at Ewood 30 years ago starring 'Killer' Keeley (who I believe was sent off). That needs to be resurrected on here to give balance. There was obviously bad blood and a carry over from events at Fratton Park and one particular Pompey player was targetted for some serious violence and it was too brutal even for me but what a spectacle for the spectators! Superb stuff! There won't be many queuing up to see todays matches in 30 years I'm sure.

And before anybody pontificates about how awful and barbaric it was back then just remember the spectator sport 1500 years previously involved lions and christians.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

We'll obviously never agree mmlp. You appear to belong to the neutered, sanitised modern world where male sperm counts can be counted on the fingers of one hand whilst I come from the 'hard but fair' red blooded full fat school.

Maybe time I and my kind departed and sailed off into the sunset like the final chapter of Lord of the Rings and leave this world to mere mortals.

Just as a matter of interest how many one footed football players have you ever seen?

Players know that two footed challenges equates to a red card. Whether you agree with it or not, that is the standard and everyone is aware of it. Givet was an idiot for going in with two feet and can have no complaints. If you dont discourage those sorts of tackles then you're going to end up with serious injuries occurring on a regular basis.

The consistency between referees is the main problem that people have with modern day football, but I dont think that dangerous tackles should be left unpunished only because the opponent was fortunate enough to not get injured.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Too many games are being ruined by referees handing out red cards like confetti. Two teams in the championship, Leicester City and Bristol City, had two players sent off yesterday,what the F is going on. I remember seeing an article in the Sunday Times a while ago, it was a " where are they now " team photo of the Notts Forest team of the mid 1970's ? They mentioned a guy called Sammy Chapman and said that earlier that season he'd become the FIRST Forest player to be sent off for THIRTY seasons ! Don't tell me it was a cleaner game in those days.

I'd being going to Rovers for about 3 season before I saw a sending off ( Mike England at Burnley) and it was 3 more seasons before I saw a second one ( Harry Gregg at Old Trafford ). Now it's every other week. It's time we copied another innovation from Rugby League and have a sin bin. 15 minutes out of the game would have been sufficient for both Givet and Yakubu in my opinion.

[Torgeir]

Givet had both feet off the ground and came in hard, though he did try for the ball after a sloppy first touch. Red card for me.

Cissé, as you say, could have gotten the Wolves player sent off, but stick your hand in someone's face and you run a risk of seeing a red. Johnson got away with it because of Cissé's reaction. I would have given Cissé a yellow and Johnson a straight red but would have been okay with the ref sending both players off as well.

Huth I thought was the softest of the three. Yes it's a clumsy challenge at speed with a bit of impact, but it's one-footed and it doesn't look as if he's trying to harm the other player. Yellow with a twist of red, I would have told him to keep it clean from there on out as he would have been threading on a thin line.

Red cards definitely has to mean a sending off of the recipient, but being able to substitute that player could work. To make it efficient suspensions would have to be made longer than the current practice, as well as hefty fines that could go to the the player on the receiving end. I think the answer is paying the referees enough so that people would want to be one despite all the abuse. There's mega money in football right now and paying referees more would increase competition, and as a result, the competence level.

[Andy]

Givet's was questionable, Cisse's was stupid, but Huth's was an absolute joke.