[Archived] Kean versus McCarthy

[imy9]

Or? Well...which one was it?

Anyway, as I said, he did not turn down a MANAGER's job at an SPL club. I'm sure you have no proof at all but hearsay.

In fact, I think he was turned DOWN for the manager's job at Kilmarnock, the summer before he took over us.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/05/28/kilmarnock-miss-out-on-blackburn-coach-steve-kean-as-manager-search-goes-on-86908-22291631/

There are quotes from the Chairman too which I can dig up if you want.

Thought you'd ask so here it is:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/kilmarnock/2010/06/03/kilmarnock-continue-interest-in-blackburn-coach-steve-kean-to-replace-jimmy-calderwood-86908-22305631/

[Brfcrule1]

Yeah and you lot forgot I don't know any managers who would make such bizarre substitutions and further weaken a team. There is no way on God's earth McCarthy would swap his wingers over and play players out of position,and there is no way McCarthy would ever come close to messing up a 3 goal lead coco is a legend when it comes to messing up. He is what Graeme Souness described in the book the club that jack built which I have just finished reading. That referee is a clown & his assistant & did not care if he got in trouble. That is what SK is a clown like the ref & linesman but even if we do give coco the boot I would never even consider McCarthy to take over neither him or SK should bemanaging PL clubs.

[Hughesy]

your world is very black and white

Not really....But I honestly think we look in better shape to stay up (If its still Kean vs McCarthy) - we look a better side, and more likely to fight to win games. Yes you may believe McCarthy is better? But at the end of the day after 25 games, the league doesnt lie and we are higher (only just fair enough). Wolves in current form are dropping like a stone, we however seem to be picking points up every couple of games.

McCarthy has done a decent job but now Wolves havent really gone anywhere despite spending a decent amount of money.

[BuckyRover]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/05/28/kilmarnock-miss-out-on-blackburn-coach-steve-kean-as-manager-search-goes-on-86908-22291631/

There are quotes from the Chairman too which I can dig up if you want.

Thought you'd ask so here it is:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/kilmarnock/2010/06/03/kilmarnock-continue-interest-in-blackburn-coach-steve-kean-to-replace-jimmy-calderwood-86908-22305631/

I wonder why he turned it down.....

[McClarky]

McCarthy easily, he would kick Kean's head in no problem.

[Mattyblue]

There is also a school of thought that people who have been number twos for long enough and are qualified should be given a shot at a premier league job, why else did Sammy Lee,Ricky S get jobs?

Number two to Coleman at Coventry for 12 months and he deserves a Premier League managers job? that's a cracker imy lad

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Or? Well...which one was it?

Anyway, as I said, he did not turn down a MANAGER's job at an SPL club. I'm sure you have no proof at all but hearsay.

In fact, I think he was turned DOWN for the manager's job at Kilmarnock, the summer before he took over us.

...or he did!

Martinez must be a better manager because he has had success in the Rizla league???

Then why is his record at TOP level worse than Steve's

The argument could be - a proven manager is being embarrassed at top level by a rookie.

As for McCarthy, has there ever been a worse manager???

[Amo]

You are assuming Kean would not have been, based on Kean being the better manager % wise in a better league what's to say Kean would have struggled at a lower level?

So you're using Kean's failure in the PL to make the argument that he'd be a success in the lower leagues? That's essentially it, right?

[Andy]

You are assuming Kean would not have been, based on Kean being the better manager % wise in a better league what's to say Kean would have struggled at a lower level?

Kean's complete and utter incompetence at trying to be a football manager says that he would struggle managing Mill Hill Under 8's, never mind League 1.

[imy9]

Number two to Coleman at Coventry for 12 months and he deserves a Premier League managers job? that's a cracker imy lad

So you're using Kean's failure in the PL to make the argument that he'd be a success in the lower leagues? That's essentially it, right?

Matty it may be a 'cracker' if it was the full story, however FOUR years as number 2 to Coleman at PL club Fulham, totaled with the rest equals about 6 years as number 2, for a guy who was 42 years old at the time, I'd say that fits with the point that I was making.

Topman- I am making the argument that as Kean is more successful that Martinez at a higher level, whats to say that he would not be as successful (maybe more) at a lower level?

[Amo]

Topman- I am making the argument that as Kean is more successful that Martinez at a higher level, whats to say that he would not be as successful (maybe more) at a lower level?

Because he's a total spud who lacks all the right elements of a football manager?

Martinez has lower league success on his CV. Kean's CV will read that he took an established, PL side and took them to the brink once before relegating them at the second attempt.

[Commondore]

I think Wolves have made a bit of a boo-boo here, they've sacked their manager at a bad time of the season, not sure who they'll expect to come in and save them from relegation?. If they were going to sack Mc Carthy they should have done it a lot earlier.

Wolves are below us in the table, that says A LOT about how bad things have been for them. They're approaching the point where an injection of form from a new manager is their last hope, I'd say they're making the correct decision by making the gamble now rather than later.

[Kelbo]

Matty it may be a 'cracker' if it was the full story, however FOUR years as number 2 to Coleman at PL club Fulham, totaled with the rest equals about 6 years as number 2, for a guy who was 42 years old at the time, I'd say that fits with the point that I was making.

Topman- I am making the argument that as Kean is more successful that Martinez at a higher level, whats to say that he would not be as successful (maybe more) at a lower level?

There is a massive difference between Kean and McCarthy, in my opinion, McCarthy is honest, Kean is not and that means a lot!!

Also McCarthy has achieved promotion, Kean has not!

[AndyC]

Not really....But I honestly think we look in better shape to stay up (If its still Kean vs McCarthy) - we look a better side, and more likely to fight to win games. Yes you may believe McCarthy is better? But at the end of the day after 25 games, the league doesnt lie and we are higher (only just fair enough). Wolves in current form are dropping like a stone, we however seem to be picking points up every couple of games.

McCarthy has done a decent job but now Wolves havent really gone anywhere despite spending a decent amount of money.

The only reason why we' might sttay up, is the legacy players from Hughes and big Sam.

[Amo]

There is a massive difference between Kean and McCarthy, in my opinion, McCarthy is honest, Kean is not and that means a lot!!

Also McCarthy has achieved promotion, Kean has not!

Imy's using some ass-backward logic.

Martinez - Proves himself in lower league, gets promoted to PL.

Kean - No credentials. Handed job in PL on a plate.

Overlook the tiny detail that Kean needs to actually go and prove himself. Psssh! That makes too much sense.

[imy9]

Imy's using some ass-backward logic.

Martinez - Proves himself in lower league, gets promoted to PL.

Kean - No credentials. Handed job in PL on a plate.

Overlook the tiny detail that Kean needs to actually go and prove himself. Psssh! That makes too much sense.

So Topman the man with no credentials handed a job on a plate, is he qualified or not? (Note Southgate handed a pl job with no prior managerial experience and no qualifications)

So is Kean the first ex number 2 to be given a job as pl manager? Les Reid, Sammy Lee, Ricky S, amongst countless others.

What exactly has Martinez proven? That he can spend 2 successful seasons in lower leagues followed by 100+ games winning 23% of them.

I fail to see the point that you are making, bar the fact that your hatred for Kean is clearly clouding your judgement.

There is a massive difference between Kean and McCarthy, in my opinion, McCarthy is honest, Kean is not and that means a lot!!

Also McCarthy has achieved promotion, Kean has not!

IMO McCarthy is a good manager, did well at Wolves, Sunderland in the championship and Ireland, good bloke too.

[Amo]

So Topman the man with no credentials handed a job on a plate, is he qualified or not? (Note Southgate handed a pl job with no prior managerial experience and no qualifications)

And Southgate was a monumental cock-up. What's your point?

So is Kean the first ex number 2 to be given a job as pl manager?

Um, no? What's your point? Try to stay focused.

And all those examples were sacked when they proved out of their depth.

What exactly has Martinez proven? That he can spend 2 successful seasons in lower leagues followed by 100+ games winning 23% of them.

That he did a superb job in the lower leagues and deserved a crack in the PL. It hasn't worked out, but at least he can say he earned it. What has Kean done to be awarded this job? Had the right agent at the right time. That's what. You're trying to argue that because Kean has a slightly less worse (I refuse to use the word successful) record than Martinez in the PL, he has the credentials to be a lower league manager?

I fail to see the point that you are making, bar the fact that your hatred for Kean is clearly clouding your judgement.

If you can't see the point I'm making, you're being deliberately obtuse and trollin' big time.

[Burrells Boy]

Anybody manager would be better than kean, but personally I would not take McCarthy, honest bloke but not the quality required.

[imy9]

And Southgate was a monumental cock-up. What's your point?

Um, no? What's your point? Try to stay focused.

And all those examples were sacked when they proved out of their depth.

That he did a superb job in the lower leagues and deserved a crack in the PL. It hasn't worked out, but at least he can say he earned it. What has Kean done to be awarded this job? Had the right agent at the right time. That's what. You're trying to argue that because Kean has a slightly less worse (I refuse to use the word successful) record than Martinez in the PL, he has the credentials to be a lower league manager?

If you can't see the point I'm making, you're being deliberately obtuse and trollin' big time.

You are saying Kean has not earned the right to be a pl manager, correct? My point is that he is not the first nor will he be the last ex number 2 to be given a job, is that clear enough? His CV was good enough to be given a chance (regardless of agent) if you look at others who have been given a chance, clear enough?

The average lifespan of a manager is less than 2 years so most managers will be unsuccessful. Kean deserve to be our manager, no, but did he have cv to take the job, take away SEM and you would say yes.

[Amo]

You are saying Kean has not earned the right to be a pl manager, correct? My point is that he is not the first nor will he be the last ex number 2 to be given a job, is that clear enough? His CV was good enough to be given a chance (regardless of agent) if you look at others who have been given a chance, clear enough?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Steve Kean's CV was good enough based on the fact a handful of assistants, who all failed, were promoted? Really? You're using THAT as some kind of precedent to justify Kean's appointment as manager? WHAAAAT THE FUUU-

The average lifespan of a manager is less than 2 years so most managers will be unsuccessful. Kean deserve to be our manager, no, but did he have cv to take the job, take away SEM and you would say yes.

I know you're just taking the ###### now. Goodnight, Imy.

[imy9]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Steve Kean's CV was good enough based on the fact a handful of assistants, who all failed, were promoted? Really? You're using THAT as some kind of precedent to justify Kean's appointment as manager? WHAAAAT THE FUUU-

I know you're just taking the ###### now. Goodnight, Imy.

Topman, take a step back, a long breath and read what I said again. I cannot be bothered to repeat myself again and refuse to provide legal documentation to prove to you that I am not a troll as you you feel MG Road needs to lol. I am sure I talked to you before about giving Rovers a miss for a while, may help you see things rationally.

[Kendalrover]

Kean deserve to be our manager, no, but did he have cv to take the job, take away SEM and you would say yes.

There seems to be some kind of myth circulating that Kean is an excellent coach. Could someone please provide the evidence that backs this up. From what I can see his record working with Chris Coleman at Real Sociedad, Fulham and Coventry didn't exactly set the football world on fire.

Is this just another lie perpetuated by Kean's PR machine.

[LeChuck]

You are saying Kean has not earned the right to be a pl manager, correct? My point is that he is not the first nor will he be the last ex number 2 to be given a job, is that clear enough? His CV was good enough to be given a chance (regardless of agent) if you look at others who have been given a chance, clear enough?

You're missing a pretty important fact here.

Kean was number 3 when he was promoted to manager. Neil McDonald was number 2.

If you can find me other examples of that happening I might agree that you had a point...

[47er]

Matty it may be a 'cracker' if it was the full story, however FOUR years as number 2 to Coleman at PL club Fulham, totaled with the rest equals about 6 years as number 2, for a guy who was 42 years old at the time, I'd say that fits with the point that I was making.

Topman- I am making the argument that as Kean is more successful that Martinez at a higher level, whats to say that he would not be as successful (maybe more) at a lower level?

Kean is not a better manager than Martinez. Kean inherited far better players than Wigan have. Trouble is he's doing his best to dismantle it all.

You could only compare the two if the teams they were managing were exactly the same or if they'd both started completely from scratch.

[Amo]

Topman, take a step back, a long breath and read what I said again. I cannot be bothered to repeat myself again and refuse to provide legal documentation to prove to you that I am not a troll as you you feel MG Road needs to lol. I am sure I talked to you before about giving Rovers a miss for a while, may help you see things rationally.

I've read it again and it still stinks.

Steve Kean's CV was NEVER acceptable to be a PL manager. Neither was Sbragia's, or Sammy Lee's etc. They're coaches/assistants with no managerial experience to speak of. So again, I ask you, what's your point? Those guys weren't good enough for management, so that means if they got a chance, Kean's entitled to a chance? Right? WRONG! See what I mean about this sounding like a bunch of nonsense.

Then again, Imy. Maybe you're right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLXXe8GEpe0

@1:10