[Archived] Fans Forum Statement

[K-Hod]

I'm not sure what agenda there could possibly be....

All I want is Rovers run properly from top to bottom.

[glen9mullan]

I think a whole line needs drawing under all this, as this is exactly what people like Venkys want. The supporters suffer if personal differences.opinions cannot be put to one side for the good of the club.

The only thing I know, is EVERYONE who uses this site, or any other rovers site etc are 100% rovers supporters, and if we can all learn to remember that then I'm sure there is a way forward.

You do not have to like each other, or talk to each other or bring conflict up with each other, to be able to work together, In any given situation we have all faced occassions were we end up working with people who we either do not see eye to eye with or have little time for.

Sadly football is all about opinions and everyone has one, its a sport with breaths passion, and the supporters affiliation to their club fuels even more.

FF, Rovers sites, BRST, BRISA, BRAG it does not matter what people's opinions of any of these are, what does matter is all these things can at least be put under one umbrella, and that is we are all concerned rovers supporters.

There is mud being slung from all sides of the spectrum, and that helps no-one, and at times many of us are guilty of this, I hope that people can move forward and be open minded about each other, not for the sake of any group, but for the sake of the rovers supporter community

I'm not sure what agenda there could possibly be....

All I want is Rovers run properly from top to bottom.

I think thats all anyone wants, just people have a different ways/idea's of trying to achieve this

[AndyNeil]

Simon/Glen...have you seen the thread that I have posted on the BRAG forum in relation to the voting numbers? I also tried to contact you both on Twitter yesterday evening about this?

[St_Jimmy_77]

Jimmy. The two main groups (most active) seem to be FF and BRAG, and I agree these two need to work together to avoid splitting the fan base further.

Your intentions are obviously good but how do you see dismissing both groups in favour of promoting a third, BRST, as unifying?

From what I can see the last update (following a fund raising event) was May last year - with an LT piece in October. It therefore doesn't appear very active currently.

Do you envisage a kind of umbrella organisation, bringing together other groups? And is this trust in any way related to Wayne Wild's Supporters' Trust?

Unintentionally I've dismissed both groups. I personally think the FF and BRAG will offer a lot in terms of lifting the BRST off the ground. Both groups have their strengths and to be honest we need unification of not just these two, but ALL groups whether they have a presence online or offline. Even if a supporter isn't affiliated to any group, the BRST will be inclusive to ALL supporters.

We aren't very active as we are still in the process of becoming official. It's a very long and drawn out process full of red tape which is frustrating. Supporters Direct had funding cuts from the Government and that in turn has slowed things down. But we are very close to becoming official.

The Wayne Wild investment idea has nothing to do with us (in that we have had no involvement in it), we will look into it in more detail and potentially (subject to members of BRST voting) look at backing his proposal, after all his idea and the ethos of BRST are not too dissimilar.

All that said, we are looking at some quick wins and looking at ways we could conquer the big stuff. Lots of hard work but if it unifys all supporters, it'll be a job well done.

[J*B]

The real question is how do any of BRAG, BRST and the FF get the majority of Rovers fans to know who they are, and what they are trying to achieve.

The only group I feel currently have that role is BRAG - and that's caused more problems than good.

It's no use the FF trying to become a link between fans and owners, while at the same time BRAG are trying to secure meetings, while at the same time BRST are trying to secure the same thing.

It's also no use having "closed" groups either. I'm sick of these "elected" committees too.

[St_Jimmy_77]

The real question is how do any of BRAG, BRST and the FF get the majority of Rovers fans to know who they are, and what they are trying to achieve.

The only group I feel currently have that role is BRAG - and that's caused more problems than good.

It's no use the FF trying to become a link between fans and owners, while at the same time BRAG are trying to secure meetings, while at the same time BRST are trying to secure the same thing.

It's also no use having "closed" groups either. I'm sick of these "elected" committees too.

Speaking from BRST's perspective. We are aiming to flyer games, leave business cards in the local area (not just Blackburn), local radio, local newspaper, social media and perhaps the best tool of all word of mouth. BRST haven't clearly defined what their objectives are because it'll be up to the members of the trust. They will drive the ideas and ultimately the people who have been elected will attempt to make things happen.

[J*B]

That's what I'm getting at - there needs to be a group who's objectives are decided by the fans. Where a majority of season ticket holders can understand that, for example, the BRST are their voice, and somehow they can put a new idea or objective forward and BRST will fight the case for them.

How its possible I don't know - I just can't grasp how an "elected" group can fight on behalf of all the fans. For example, who are these elected people? How did they become elected? Can they be removed should they seem to have alterior motives?

[St_Jimmy_77]

I totally understand what you mean. Electing on the BRST side is straightforward and will be transparent. Every member who is signed up will be entitled to vote for who they wish, it could be anyone. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, BRST will be inclusive to ALL fans. Whoever joins can put ideas forward and if the majority of members agree, the BRST will push forward in trying to make it happen.

[Scotty]

BRAG is, currently, a protest group for protesters. All this talk of it being open and representative is just balls. Only advertising committee elections and "open" meetings on their own websites is simply preaching to the converted. My impression is that BRAG has no interest at all in involving anyone who doesn't share their views and opinions. The group appears to be a mixture of media whores and thick nutters imo.

However I would like to be proved wrong. If BRAG genuinely want to unite the fans they need to follow the lead of BRST and BRISA before them and hold fully open, well advertised meetings where any Rovers fan can contribute. Until that happens people like me will continue to view them with a mix of suspicion and cynacism.

[Kamy100]

Again I would urge the BRAG committee o sharpen up their PR skills, at the moment all they are managing to do is alienate people towards them.

Also interesting to see that the "open" meeting to elect the committee was not advertised on their own website, again not having a pop but if BRAG are making claims of wanting to be open etc. then this again brings things into question. BRAG committee needs to work on communication channels or as Scotty say's they will be viewed with suspicion, maybe offer to relect your committee and this time advertise the meeting as widely as possible could be a way forward.

[Stuart]

Thanks for the reply Jimmy.

We hear a lot about transparency and openness from all of the groups - including the ability to meet/vote - from all of the main groups but it doesn't yet 'feel' like that is the case.

Also, it is incredibly difficult to get people (in general) to give up their time and energies unless they feel they are getting something in return. (Although I digress onto a separate problem I have). Particularly when it involves something people would - in the cold light of a recessionary day - consider a hobby.

If you can generate a good level of interest (out of a pool of up to 25,000 people, then what is key to keeping that interest is to make sure that the objectives the group is hoping to complete are "SMART".

Specific

Measurable

ACHIEVABLE

Relevant

Time Bound

Unless you can fully articulate what your goals are and ensure they are realistic, you won't get buy in, let alone succeed.

Good luck to anyone trying to pull together such a group - particularly one led by committee - AND hold down a full time job AND take care of a family.

It's bloody hard.

[mark1875]

Also interesting to see that the "open" meeting to elect the committee was not advertised on their own website, again not having a pop but if BRAG are making claims of wanting to be open etc. then this again brings things into question.

Again this is wrong!!

The meeting was up on the website but for some reason has been removed since the meeting. It really does not help when people are claiming things are being kept quiet when they are clearly incorrect and i have to provide a link for them. Twice now in 12 hours the Action Group has been wrongly accused, where in fact it's just a case of the person posting being uninformed.

Here is the link of the cached page

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i4I-rdYDxI8J:brfcactiongroup.org.uk/index.php/protest/24-bragagm+brfcactiongroup+first+agm&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[St_Jimmy_77]

Thanks for the reply Jimmy.

We hear a lot about transparency and openness from all of the groups - including the ability to meet/vote - from all of the main groups but it doesn't yet 'feel' like that is the case.

Also, it is incredibly difficult to get people (in general) to give up their time and energies unless they feel they are getting something in return. (Although I digress onto a separate problem I have). Particularly when it involves something people would - in the cold light of a recessionary day - consider a hobby.

If you can generate a good level of interest (out of a pool of up to 25,000 people, then what is key to keeping that interest is to make sure that the objectives the group is hoping to complete are "SMART".

Specific

Measurable

ACHIEVABLE

Relevant

Time Bound

Unless you can fully articulate what your goals are and ensure they are realistic, you won't get buy in, let alone succeed.

Good luck to anyone trying to pull together such a group - particularly one led by committee - AND hold down a full time job AND take care of a family.

It's bloody hard.

I fully agree. The SMART model is used in my line of work regularly. It is bloody hard, it's hard enough trying to establish a foothold without being official. But fingers crossed once we are official, we can get out there and push hard in establishing that foothold.

I can guarantee that BRST will run as openly and as transparently as possible. Supporters Direct have guidelines we have to follow. If we don't we could lose Trust status. Subsequently there is no deviation from what the Supporters Direct lay down. And not least because it's what Rovers fans deserve. A voice that is backed by an officially accredited organisation. Naturally we have a lot of hard work to put in, but ultimately I believe it will bear fruit in the end and everyone will feel included, whether affiliated with Fans Forum, BRAG or any other group. Or indeed if they aren't affiliated to any group. Whether they have a presence online or not.

[Ste B]

Again this is wrong!!

The meeting was up on the website but for some reason has been removed since the meeting. It really does not help when people are claiming things are being kept quiet when they are clearly incorrect and i have to provide a link for them. Twice now in 12 hours the Action Group has been wrongly accused, where in fact it's just a case of the person posting being uninformed.

Here is the link of the cached page

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i4I-rdYDxI8J:brfcactiongroup.org.uk/index.php/protest/24-bragagm+brfcactiongroup+first+agm&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Can I make a suggestion that you make the front page of the site a bit clearer with the news - I can see links on the right hand side to the news, but it may be better if you have extracts of each article on the front page, whereas the text on the home page could become an "about us" link. People wont click through to the other sections as there may appear to be little updates.

I knew about all the meetings, but I've got that info from the Facebook page and wouldnt find it that easily from the front page.

[Sparky Marky]

Thrre's been no mention of this 'open' meeting on this site at all. I'd have thought this would be the first place you would advertise it. Last night is first I heard of it....

[Kamy100]

Again this is wrong!!

The meeting was up on the website but for some reason has been removed since the meeting. It really does not help when people are claiming things are being kept quiet when they are clearly incorrect and i have to provide a link for them. Twice now in 12 hours the Action Group has been wrongly accused, where in fact it's just a case of the person posting being uninformed.

Here is the link of the cached page

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i4I-rdYDxI8J:brfcactiongroup.org.uk/index.php/protest/24-bragagm+brfcactiongroup+first+agm&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

I didn't even know that the group had a website, first time I saw the website was today so with the meeting not being on there then I quite rightly assumed that it hadn't been advertised on there.

Anyhow i'll leave you guys to it, to be honest the whole defensive approach from BRAG members is a little off putting, especially towards people who are trying to point out how you could do things better and change perceptions that people have of the group.

[Stuart]

I didn't even know that the group had a website, first time I saw the website was today so with the meeting not being on there then I quite rightly assumed that it hadn't been advertised on there.

Anyhow i'll leave you guys to it, to be honest the whole defensive approach from BRAG members is a little off putting, especially towards people who are trying to point out how you could do things better and change perceptions that people have of the group.

Kamy, there are people who want to see BRAG fail, that much is clear. Therefore it's no surprise that members seem defensive when they are constantly being attacked.

If they don't respond to spurious accusations then whatever aspersions are being cast end up being reality (perceptions and all that), yet of they respond they are seen as defensive.

I agree they need to work on diplomacy but at the same time there are occassions when eggs should be eggs rather than PR led. Those involved are NOT politicians, they are football supporters, and they should not be looked down on because of their sometimes rough edges.

BRST might become a group which can unify the different groups but depending upon those involved in it the same perceptions might simple transfer. If Glen and Simon devices BRAG and joined BRST would it be any different? Or would they be precluded from joining? From what Jimmy has said, there should be no reason for them to be excluded and if BRST's aims are the same (as they should be) then there is no reason they should not want to be involved.

The BRST cannot become another FF which is afraid to burn bridges - even though the whole Raison D'être for the FF seems to have gone at the same time as JW. Some might argue there shouldn't need to be any other group than the FF if it's remit was widened. The club has changed, the FF (as an entity) appears to have not (yet) - even if several members (as individuals) have recognised the need.

I actually have high hopes for BRST - let's hope by the time they are officially formed, it's not too late for the club - or it's fanbase.

[Exiled in Toronto]

BRAG is, currently, a protest group for protesters. All this talk of it being open and representative is just balls. Only advertising committee elections and "open" meetings on their own websites is simply preaching to the converted. My impression is that BRAG has no interest at all in involving anyone who doesn't share their views and opinions. The group appears to be a mixture of media whores and thick nutters imo.

However I would like to be proved wrong. If BRAG genuinely want to unite the fans they need to follow the lead of BRST and BRISA before them and hold fully open, well advertised meetings where any Rovers fan can contribute. Until that happens people like me will continue to view them with a mix of suspicion and cynacism.

I couldn't agree more - that is exactly the perception that is coming across, along with the desire for unity being a desire to be the only group.

[47er]

Again this is wrong!!

The meeting was up on the website but for some reason has been removed since the meeting. It really does not help when people are claiming things are being kept quiet when they are clearly incorrect and i have to provide a link for them. Twice now in 12 hours the Action Group has been wrongly accused, where in fact it's just a case of the person posting being uninformed.

Here is the link of the cached page

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i4I-rdYDxI8J:brfcactiongroup.org.uk/index.php/protest/24-bragagm+brfcactiongroup+first+agm&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

If I were you Mark, I wpuldn't bother. Plenty of people have their noses out of joint because others are actually doing something!

However you try to explain things, it'll be twisted. You're doing a great job, just keep on with it.

Continue to reach as many fans as you can, state what you're doing and why and leave it at that. The state of our club will speak for itself and assist you.

That's my advice and its free!

[Tom]

Let's try and not make this thread little more than open season on the ff or BRAG

[yoda]

Why not unite all the groups under the one banner

BRAVO

Blackburn Rovers Against Venkys Organisation

Bravo sounds positive!

[Fife Rover]

BRAG members don't like people saying this - but it is very clique and I'm glad I'm not the only person who gets the feeling. I've stood on the Blackburn End with a member of BRAG in my blue and white scarf and one of his BRAG mates have asked him why he's stood with someone not in black and yellow. On the rare occasions that I've drank in the Brown Cow I've felt uncomfortable wearing the same scarf I've worn for the last two seasons at winter.

Originally when the protests started I was all for them and attended several of the marches and post game sit-ins. The last being at the Swansea game. After that I began to question what I was doing. No one can fault the commitment of the protesters and the hard work which has gone in to making them happen safely and legally. But, nothing has changed. Kean is still here and not going anywhere. As are Venky's.

No amount of standing about in the cold for 24 hours is going to change this. It annoys me when people who chose not to protest are refereed to as Rovers Fans or that they don't care about the club as much as BRAG members do. That's utter rubbish and shows contempt for other fans who choose to do things in their own way. And before anyone offers me to suggest an alternative - I don't have one. Which isn't say I'm not to allowed to believe that the protests have run their course.

Absolutely spot-on Ohmi. You have more or less summed up my feelings on the views of the more extreme militants amongst the protest movement, and this is ONE of the reasons why I will not attend another game at Ewood until sanity and stability has returned (assuming that happens sometime before I die). I think i probably have a few years left in me yet, so I continue to hope, but at present forlornly so.

[Kamy100]

Kamy, there are people who want to see BRAG fail, that much is clear. Therefore it's no surprise that members seem defensive when they are constantly being attacked.

I actually have high hopes for BRST - let's hope by the time they are officially formed, it's not too late for the club - or it's fanbase.

I certainly don't want to see BRAG fail, all that I was highlighting was that they could do things differently which will help change perceptions that people have of the group.

I don't know Simon to well but I do know Glen very well, when the whole Kean Out protests started I was talked to Glen on an daily basis, helped him with the initial press releases, used press contacts to get the protests publicity and generally encouraged them (mainly because I believed that Steve Kean needed to be sacked), but then it was pointed out to me that professionally it could harm me if I continued to be involved in such a public way so I decided to take a back seat, so I know Glen and have no reason to want him/BRAG to fail but they do need to work on changing perceptions.

I too have high hopes for BRST, the people who are involved I have a great amount of respect for and am confident that they can become the one umbrella organisation that can bring everyone together, there are very dark days ahead, particularly if the club is relegated and for supporters our UNITY would be our strength.

[Devon Rover]

Following Rovers since Venkys arrived has been painful. But reading this thread has been one of the more demoralising times for me.

I'm heading out to watch Exeter v Bury in a minute, hopefully to see a good old-fashioned football battle and to stand with the fans of a club who, although they often disagree with one another, managed to pull together and form a single organisation to represent all fans and ultimately take a controlling stake in the club.

The fact that this happened when Exeter were relegated from the football league as opposed to Rovers battling relegation from the Premier League of course means there are significant differences in financial implications etc. However, one of the things that was really heartening in Exeter at that time was how there was a clear, well-publicised, single movement to try and save the club and return it to ownership to be proud of. This spirit lives on around the club around a decade later.

This feels to me a long way off for Rovers and I will admit to being very confused by the various organisations, their aims, membership arrangements and whether any have any influence at all. I suggest that their squabbling weakens them all and, to be honest, is a bit embarrassing to read.

I hope a single group might ultimately come together to get messages across with clarity and with some degree of clout. But right now this situation is, for me, feeding into a general disappointment and disillusionment with all that is Blackburn Rovers. I think this afternoon I'll be happier stood on the terrace in Exeter watching a team backed by its fans and a real, united, Supporters Trust.

Have a good weekend, everyone. D.R.

[Fife Rover]

If you took the time to read my posts then you would see that I have been to previous protests. Right up until the Swansea game. So, no, I don't feel I'm "too good to be a protestor."

It's attitudes like yours which I dislike about protestors.

+1