[Archived] Fans Forum Statement

[deftangel]

To all those saying I should either resign or consider the diplomacy of my posts at times. I refer you back to some of posts earlier in the thread. I have been calling for unity and this has accepted by sum in FF.

Some people are quick enough to criticise us and accuse us for not being transparent. Even when the information has been in front of there eyes.

I agree the post could have been worded a little better.

However when the group is getting slated for not being open by individuals who obviously have a agenda. I will say what I think and defend the group. That's who I am and why I was voted on to Committee.

Please take these comments in the constructive manner in which they are intended but there is far too much reference to "the group", or BRAG in the third person. I understand why this happens, it's a new thing that's been set up for passionate reasons and everybody involved is keen to legitimise it but I find it personally quite off-putting and can see how other people can get the impression that BRAG as a thing seems to mean more than the causes it represents when they speak to, or ask (mostly reasonable) questions of it's members.

In addition, the website design is bad and renders news items difficult to find. I'm by no means a grammer fascist but copy is far from easy to read either. On the other hand, you have a twitter account of 570 followers, quite impressive in a short space of time but aren't using it effectively to publicise the open meetings. One tweet with just a link. No time, no venue or subsequent reminders.

I gather you will be at said meeting right now and I would say that out of your number and/or 570 twitter followers there must be at least one person who understands all this stuff, has experience in this area or does PR/communications for a living. Finding them and getting them on board will get you a lot further than arguing the toss about things on here.

I know you'll tell me "we're just supporters, now we've a committee this will be done etc etc." but first impressions count for a lot.

[greco]

get rid of all the fancy intentions and keep it simple.

all this fancy bull-###### about wanting unity,transparency, being a new organistation, better pr, communication and what not, is utter pointless. If those are the parameters for protest succes, then i gotta wonder when tom cruise is entering the picture, cause that would be mission impossible.

its an organisation who protests against the manager and owners, either you agree or you dont, you either join or you dont. Yes it is that simple.

Regarding the FF statement,to use the word of gordon ramsey and i´ll quote "this is bland"

[Majiball]

When and where is it, and what time does it start?

Back of the bike shed at lunchtime. (BANTER ALERT)

To all those saying I should either resign or consider the diplomacy of my posts at times. I refer you back to some of posts earlier in the thread. I have been calling for unity and this has accepted by sum in FF.

Some people are quick enough to criticise us and accuse us for not being transparent. Even when the information has been in front of there eyes.

I agree the post could have been worded a little better.

However when the group is getting slated for not being open by individuals who obviously have a agenda. I will say what I think and defend the group. That's who I am and why I was voted on to Committee.

What on earth makes you think I have an agenda?

At the end of the day you've changed your stance from being protesters to potential buyers/owners. This means you need a new approach. Consequently when asking 10,000 fans to stump up 1,000 pounds each, being non-diplomatic will only reduce the number of people willing to do so through alienation. Your own actions will undermine your own intentions. So I sit here as a highly educated man and think do I really want you involved in the running of our club? You see your non-change of stance and tactics for me displays a lack of intelligence within your organization and that gives me concern. Other actions such as saying your 100% transparent when I know WW & GM have previous, again just fuels the ire further, it's like your hiding things. This may all be unintentional who knows, but fans, especially given the last 18months will naturally be suspicious. You have ground to make up in this area, inexperience whatever the reason it just doesn't matter.

Another point you might want to consider is that your move to buyers means you can no longer protest. You see protesting now just makes me think your willing to use strong arm tactics to get your wish. No potential buyer of any club for as long as I can remember has tried this, there's a reason why. You need to appeal to every Rovers fan on the planet for your plans to come to fruition and so yes you will have to learn to bite your tongue. Whether you like it or not, the greater good comes to mind.

Do I agree with the protests? Initially yes without doubt, others were asked as well as GM, my love for Rovers is obvious. But for me the protests had to escalate in ferocity a while back as it was clearly not hitting home. Liverpool had ousted clearly deaf foreign based owners and it was only when their actions enraged others in the USA that light shown at the end of the tunnel. For me now they've lost their impact and the moment for escalation has passed as that was when the Arabs were sniffing.

So what to do? Well No.1 it's not my place really I cannot be involved, but it's me, I have to say something. You've had good moments so far and now you need to take advantage of them. Surely you've made some friends in the media? So use them to get your new plan out there and given attention. But only when your plan is feasible and that means relegation. And that's why you can no longer protest as now any protest involving BRAG is easily interpreted as you trying to aid in our relegation. No it has to be about words and you'll need to get them out there, your website is not enough. Radio, TV, local, national who cares. With all the right words you could easily generate loads of sympathy and support. Admit the protests have failed, fallen on deaf ears by owners who don't give two. Fans are leaving in their droves, but we're rovers and BRAG will cheer the team to victory for 90 mins every match, home & away to help the relegation cause. But we still want Venky's out, reasons why here. We're worried about relegation and so insert fan buyout plan as a back-up as Venky's haven't delivered financially and we're up ###### creak with the bank. WW GM et al are working tirelessly to speak to the owners (WW can stump up for him and GM to go to Pune to demand talks) to resolve the fans issues (obviously ask fans for these publicly (media friend time)). Now we really need to start making Venky's look bad in India. For me the only way you'll get them to desist with the good old ostrich defense tactic, is too make them look bad in India and then have India put Venky's under pressure ala Liverpool. Don't burn the flag, that moments gone, diplomacy is now needed. We've made in roads into India with that spread it the whatever it was called so call them in advance and I reckon they'll most likely print it. If you can build a good relationship they may even follow it and then interest will generate. If Mohamed won't come to the mountain then move the bloody mountain, publically and shame them by telling every media outfit you can how they've told lie after lie. You could even say it reflects poorly on the whole of Indian businesses as this is now how they are perceived within the football supporting UK world. Someone with more knowledge of india and so on should be asked how best to do this. You get the idea, you've started building small parts so far now you need to start building bigger parts.

[OhmiBRFC]

What a brilliant post

[deftangel]

What a brilliant post

I agree, although I think it's unfair to misrepresent the Charitable Trust Fund proposal as a "BRAG thing", even if they have unhelpfully latched on to it with statements like "heavily involved in takeover bid!" because one of the prominent members has a "business degree". The chap behind it has clearly been working on that for a while and reached out to Mr Wild more on the basis of him being a local business leader representing our (main?) sponsor who was clearly critical of Venky's. Whatever the extent of Wayne's involvement with BRAG I'm sure the Trust Fund has little to do with it and most likely predates the group's formation given it's already gone through at least one or two significant revisions already.

[PAFELL]

Back of the bike shed at lunchtime. (BANTER ALERT)

What on earth makes you think I have an agenda?

At the end of the day you've changed your stance from being protesters to potential buyers/owners. This means you need a new approach. Consequently when asking 10,000 fans to stump up 1,000 pounds each, being non-diplomatic will only reduce the number of people willing to do so through alienation. Your own actions will undermine your own intentions. So I sit here as a highly educated man and think do I really want you involved in the running of our club? You see your non-change of stance and tactics for me displays a lack of intelligence within your organization and that gives me concern. Other actions such as saying your 100% transparent when I know WW & GM have previous, again just fuels the ire further, it's like your hiding things. This may all be unintentional who knows, but fans, especially given the last 18months will naturally be suspicious. You have ground to make up in this area, inexperience whatever the reason it just doesn't matter.

Another point you might want to consider is that your move to buyers means you can no longer protest. You see protesting now just makes me think your willing to use strong arm tactics to get your wish. No potential buyer of any club for as long as I can remember has tried this, there's a reason why. You need to appeal to every Rovers fan on the planet for your plans to come to fruition and so yes you will have to learn to bite your tongue. Whether you like it or not, the greater good comes to mind.

Do I agree with the protests? Initially yes without doubt, others were asked as well as GM, my love for Rovers is obvious. But for me the protests had to escalate in ferocity a while back as it was clearly not hitting home. Liverpool had ousted clearly deaf foreign based owners and it was only when their actions enraged others in the USA that light shown at the end of the tunnel. For me now they've lost their impact and the moment for escalation has passed as that was when the Arabs were sniffing.

So what to do? Well No.1 it's not my place really I cannot be involved, but it's me, I have to say something. You've had good moments so far and now you need to take advantage of them. Surely you've made some friends in the media? So use them to get your new plan out there and given attention. But only when your plan is feasible and that means relegation. And that's why you can no longer protest as now any protest involving BRAG is easily interpreted as you trying to aid in our relegation. No it has to be about words and you'll need to get them out there, your website is not enough. Radio, TV, local, national who cares. With all the right words you could easily generate loads of sympathy and support. Admit the protests have failed, fallen on deaf ears by owners who don't give two. Fans are leaving in their droves, but we're rovers and BRAG will cheer the team to victory for 90 mins every match, home & away to help the relegation cause. But we still want Venky's out, reasons why here. We're worried about relegation and so insert fan buyout plan as a back-up as Venky's haven't delivered financially and we're up ###### creak with the bank. WW GM et al are working tirelessly to speak to the owners (WW can stump up for him and GM to go to Pune to demand talks) to resolve the fans issues (obviously ask fans for these publicly (media friend time)). Now we really need to start making Venky's look bad in India. For me the only way you'll get them to desist with the good old ostrich defense tactic, is too make them look bad in India and then have India put Venky's under pressure ala Liverpool. Don't burn the flag, that moments gone, diplomacy is now needed. We've made in roads into India with that spread it the whatever it was called so call them in advance and I reckon they'll most likely print it. If you can build a good relationship they may even follow it and then interest will generate. If Mohamed won't come to the mountain then move the bloody mountain, publically and shame them by telling every media outfit you can how they've told lie after lie. You could even say it reflects poorly on the whole of Indian businesses as this is now how they are perceived within the football supporting UK world. Someone with more knowledge of india and so on should be asked how best to do this. You get the idea, you've started building small parts so far now you need to start building bigger parts.

Excellent post

[bellamy11]

Just read this whole thread after a few days of not being on here much - I think I can honestly say that I found it more depressing than the January transfer window or the 7-1 Arsenal defeat. I think a lot of you guys have to realise how this all looks to the majority who have no involvement in either organisation.

Disharmony, agendas, aggression, point scoring, hidden motives, and more. I look at the way we're being run by our idiot owners, and then I read this, and it really confirms that we are terminally screwed. Well and truly.

[PAFELL]

BRAG support a fans buyout of the club. Which I do not believe Rovers fans could afford to do it alone.

But for that to be achieved the club needs to be relegated.

So from kean out, to venkys out, to we want more communication, it has now become we want the club relegated so that we can buy it.Their website states they support the fans buyout plan. Which needs the club relegated.

So maybe BRAG stands for the blackburn

RELEGATION action group. Because that is how anybody could view brag.

Strange times we are in.

[deftangel]

BRAG support a fans buyout of the club. Which I do not believe Rovers fans could afford to do it alone.

But for that to be achieved the club needs to be relegated.

So from kean out, to venkys out, to we want more communication, it has now become we want the club relegated so that we can buy it.Their website states they support the fans buyout plan. Which needs the club relegated.

So maybe BRAG stands for the blackburn

RELEGATION action group. Because that is how anybody could view brag.

Strange times we are in.

Not really. You can only view it that way if you willfully (and illogically) do so purely for the sake of being antagonistic.

[PAFELL]

Not really. You can only view it that way if you willfully (and illogically) do so purely for the sake of being antagonistic.

They have said that a fans buy out can only be acheived if

1/ venkys are willing to sell

2/ Fans raise the money

3/ But club needs to be relegated for fans to afford the club.

This isn't my view. But based on the plan put forward, which they support.

[Doug]

Just read this whole thread after a few days of not being on here much - I think I can honestly say that I found it more depressing than the January transfer window or the 7-1 Arsenal defeat. I think a lot of you guys have to realise how this all looks to the majority who have no involvement in either organisation.

Disharmony, agendas, aggression, point scoring, hidden motives, and more. I look at the way we're being run by our idiot owners, and then I read this, and it really confirms that we are terminally screwed. Well and truly.

+1

[deftangel]

They have said that a fans buy out can only be acheived if

1/ venkys are willing to sell

2/ Fans raise the money

3/ But club needs to be relegated for fans to afford the club.

This isn't my view. But based on the plan put forward, which they support.

Of course, that is not the same thing as actively wanting the club to be relegated, as you well know.

[OhmiBRFC]

There's no way Wayne Wild or members of BRAG want the club relegated. There is no doubting that they are passionate fans and no passionate fan will want the club relegate. A ludicrous notion to suggest otherwise.

[ABBEY]

BRAG support a fans buyout of the club. Which I do not believe Rovers fans could afford to do it alone.

But for that to be achieved the club needs to be relegated.

So from kean out, to venkys out, to we want more communication, it has now become we want the club relegated so that we can buy it.Their website states they support the fans buyout plan. Which needs the club relegated.

So maybe BRAG stands for the blackburn

RELEGATION action group. Because that is how anybody could view brag.

Strange times we are in.

You really are a tool

[glen9mullan]

The concept of the BRST is good, but the fact they have not at one point spoken to the club regarding the plans to set a trust up, or if the club would endorse such a body is worrying,

As is the news that secret meetings have taken place and people have already took the mantle of running the BRST in recent weeks, which is a shame, as Duncun has been very transparent during his attendance at most protest. However things have gone very secretive in recent weeks, and I cannot throw my weight behind something I know little about

[Stuart]

The concept of the BRST is good, but the fact they have not at one point spoken to the club regarding the plans to set a trust up, or if the club would endorse such a body is worrying,

As is the news that secret meetings have taken place and people have already took the mantle of running the BRST in recent weeks, which is a shame, as Duncun has been very transparent during his attendance at most protest. However things have gone very secretive in recent weeks, and I cannot throw my weight behind something I know little about

FFS

[Mattyblue]

Think that sums it all up Stuart.

'BRAG can't support BRST, I support the BRST, I don't trust BRAG. I don't think the FF are representative, the FF should resign, I think BRAG is a clique, I think BRST are being too secretive, we at BRAG have had many (unminuted) meetings with the club. You are smearing BRAG, BRAG wants us relegated.'

I have read this thread tjrough my fingers, you all need to get a grip, talk about divide and conquer.

[St_Jimmy_77]

The concept of the BRST is good, but the fact they have not at one point spoken to the club regarding the plans to set a trust up, or if the club would endorse such a body is worrying,

As is the news that secret meetings have taken place and people have already took the mantle of running the BRST in recent weeks, which is a shame, as Duncun has been very transparent during his attendance at most protest. However things have gone very secretive in recent weeks, and I cannot throw my weight behind something I know little about

Glen;

Can you please allude me to these secret meetings? We have met once in the last month and even then it was four of us. Also can you tell me who's taking the mantle of running BRST? There is no BRST in an official sense, there are approximately seven of us trying to get it off the ground and run it until a time where we can hold elections for the roles a Supporters Trust requires.

Also things haven't been secretive. Duncan told everyone including yourself at the Manxman open meeting where things are up to. This is still the case. We are awaiting the number that makes us 'official'.

I suggest you speak to Duncan in respect of the points raised in your first paragraph.

[PAFELL]

There's no way Wayne Wild or members of BRAG want the club relegated. There is no doubting that they are passionate fans and no passionate fan will want the club relegate. A ludicrous notion to suggest otherwise.

But they support a fans buy out of the club. For that to happen they have openly said they could only consider doing so if the club us relegated.

[PAFELL]

The concept of the BRST is good, but the fact they have not at one point spoken to the club regarding the plans to set a trust up, or if the club would endorse such a body is worrying,

As is the news that secret meetings have taken place and people have already took the mantle of running the BRST in recent weeks, which is a shame, as Duncun has been very transparent during his attendance at most protest. However things have gone very secretive in recent weeks, and I cannot throw my weight behind something I know little about

Why would they to talk to the club. Nothing to do with them if supporters want to set up a supporters club.

When this brfcs site was set up. Did they need the clubs position? I would be surprised if they did.

Did the club give brag permission for you to support a fans buy out of the club? I doubt it.

Neither do supporters need the clubs permission to set up a trust.

So no need to talk to them.

[PAFELL]

You really are a tool

Is that the best you can do to add to the debate.

[OhmiBRFC]

But they support a fans buy out of the club. For that to happen they have openly said they could only consider doing so if the club us relegated.

You are deluded. Why would they want the club relegated? One of my closest mates is a member of BRAG and their is absolutely no way on Earth he would want BRFC to be relegated.

You post very frequently and most of it is rubbish.

[PAFELL]

You are deluded. Why would they want the club relegated? One of my closest mates is a member of BRAG and their is absolutely no way on Earth he would want BRFC to be relegated.

You post very frequently and most of it is rubbish.

Want the club relegated is wrong way of putting it. But they have said it is needed in order to achieve a fans buy out. Because fans could not afford to buy the club if still in the prem.

[47er]

get rid of all the fancy intentions and keep it simple.

all this fancy bull-###### about wanting unity,transparency, being a new organistation, better pr, communication and what not, is utter pointless. If those are the parameters for protest succes, then i gotta wonder when tom cruise is entering the picture, cause that would be mission impossible.

its an organisation who protests against the manager and owners, either you agree or you dont, you either join or you dont. Yes it is that simple.

Regarding the FF statement,to use the word of gordon ramsey and i´ll quote "this is bland"

+1

[K-Hod]

+1

Make that 2...