[Archived] Fans Forum Statement

[PAFELL]

Yes we should be really alarmed that a local businessman from Darwen, the club's main sponsor, and a fan as well, wants to participate in the ownership of the club!

Which document? Dan's plan? Dan made clear from the beginning that he'd been in contact with Wayne Wild and gained his approval! Glen made it clear that he favoured Wild's involvement.

Where's the lack of transparency? Mountain out of a mole-hill.

I think he is refering to Glen working as a manager for WEC, not the document. If so that is a huge prejudical interest. Has this been the aim of the protest organisors all along? Even if it was not, it is how it 'could' be perceived, by any neutral observer. (hate to say it, but even Jerome Anderson mentioned, 'is there something else going on,' in his sky interview - is this what he was refering to?)

[thenodrog]

I think BRAG are trying to say that *at the moment* there are no other options other than to sit back do nothing, or to back the Investment Trust bid. If there was another option then that would have to be looked at, and i'd expect that BRAG are prepared to work with any other interested parties

...in flogging the dying horse.

I'll say it again Ste..... Nothing works by committee.

Fair point. I just cannot see how fans can even be expected to raise the money required. We already pay through the nose just to support a football team. Maybe if it was 20% fan ownership, but not 100%.

Maybe Ian Battersby and a consortium is another option?

Even in the ludicrous event that money can be raised to buy the club or whatever.... what happens every year after to adjust the loss that we all know it will make?

Pointless flogging the horse any longer. Just let it die.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Just Wild????

Would you not say Wild wants some sort of power/ involvement in a takeover??

I would say that this is a crazy assumption based on...very little, if anything? A couple of people's personal opinions, and a coincidental employee/employer relationship?

I can fully understand the paranoia going on around Rovers at the moment, but this is seemingly reaching for straws here. I can categorically deny that anyone involved with the BRSIT initiative has any eyes on positions of management or influence at the Club. In fact, as will be published in the coming days, the Working Group being put together for the BRSIT will automatically be disbanded and completely dissolved upon the successful completion of its one and only goal, which is to achieve a supporters-based and controlled ownership model for Blackburn Rovers Football & Athletic PLC. A purely democratic process will determine a Board of Trustees who will then recruit a proper Board of Directors to run the Club in a largely independent manner to achieve the goals on and off the pitch that the owners (i.e. the Trust, i.e. the Supporters) have set for them to aim to.

The Working Group does not contain nor will it in all likelihood ever contain any active member of BRAG. BRAG only openly supports this initiative because it is the only one to have publicly announced itself to this point. The BRSIT has a long list of public support, that will be published as said in the coming days alongside an official press release. BRAG is just one of these groups/persons/companies.

It is frankly a very defeatist and undermining position some of you are taking on people that have never shown anything but good intentions with only the best for the Club at heart. I wish we could all just pull in one direction - it seems that a culture of suspicion and resentment has fostered up very quickly, and I understand that people are gun-shy. But these people do not deserve it. Some may have been clumsy in their wording and timing, but they shouldn't be crucified for that...just be more careful in the future how things can be interpreted!

[Majiball]

Glen,

People on here are not trying to shoot you down, but it is clear that you need direction. I whole heartedly support the concept of what you are trying to achieve but you need help. I strongly reccomend that you seek help, I am sure people on here will be willing to help if asked, as at the end of the day every fan wants Venky's out. It's time for all Rovers parties to sit down and thrash out a way forward, regardless of viewpoint etc. Make the first move yourself and get the FF BRST et al all together in one room, minute it and publish it. But the FF & BRST will also need to give ground over methods etc.

[thenodrog]

I'm really sorry it's come to this because when the protests started I joined several and felt that this was something I could do to help my club. As it turned out nothing really came of it in terms of immediate results such as we'd expect from normal owners in a normal club - usually when the manager loses the fans he loses his job. However, i have felt no connection to the protests for some time, not because I have seen no apparent effect though I do admit that to hear an MP giving a speech to a committee as happened the other week is something I never envisaged happening, but because gradually there has developed a rift between the majority of supporters and those who have gone on to set up BRAG. When it started i felt I could be part of it all but now it feels like us and them and this time it's not a division that Kean has created. Now this may be a totally wrong perception of what BRAG is all about. That is not important. It is the perception of many fans who feel that it's all gone very "political" now, all about points scoring and being somehow part of an organisation that is just as untransparent as Venkys are. You may claim transparency, Glen. You may claim to be approachable, but to the vast majority of ordinary fans you no longer seem like that. This is presumably not your intention. I don't think it was how you started out but like all things, circumstances tend to take movements away from those who initially support them and into the hands of the few. It's hard to avoid and I'm not attaching blame. However, if you want to get the support of large numbers of fans for what you are trying to achieve then everything has to be out in the open that can possibly be and you have to improve communication skills. I was impressed with your performance on tv. You did well in the face of idiotic questioners who had already made up their own minds about our situation and didn't listen to a word you said. Perhaps it's time to get back to being that same persona again - the guy who really does speak for many of us.

Good post gumboots.

btw Have you been reading Animal Farm to the kids? Lord of the Flies perhaps? It's all there isn't it?

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

I think he is refering to Glen working as a manager for WEC, not the document. If so that is a huge prejudical interest. Has this been the aim of the protest organisors all along? Even if it was not, it is how it 'could' be perceived, by any neutral observer. (hate to say it, but even Jerome Anderson mentioned, 'is there something else going on,' in his sky interview - is this what he was refering to?)

Don't see how this could be possible being that I introduced Wayne to the original rough draft of the plan (amongst others) on the 19th of January 2012, and we had never met or corresponded prior to that date.

I agree with you that not knowing the facts, it could be perceived this way, if one were looking for a dark cloud type of conspiracy. Ironically, your last comment about Jerome Anderson's interview was actually the catalyst that set me off - I began formulating the original Charitable Fund Proposal the next evening.

[Majiball]

If any way forward is to transpire from this mess, then everything has to be out in the open. 18 months of lies from them (Venky's, Kean, JA etc) mean that this must be done. Transparency will be required to unite the fans into one body and only then can we strive to remove them from our club. Relegation does not matter as we cannot effect this season it's too little too late. FF, BRST et al must come together, compromise for the greater good and work together to remove this beast from our club.

[thenodrog]

Glen,

People on here are not trying to shoot you down, but it is clear that you need direction. I whole heartedly support the concept of what you are trying to achieve but you need help. I strongly reccomend that you seek help, I am sure people on here will be willing to help if asked, as at the end of the day every fan wants Venky's out. It's time for all Rovers parties to sit down and thrash out a way forward, regardless of viewpoint etc. Make the first move yourself and get the FF BRST et al all together in one room, minute it and publish it. But the FF & BRST will also need to give ground over methods etc.

Braddock, ES and a smattering of the FF excepted Maj.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

If you are to achieve your stated goals then unfortunatly you will have to take a bucket load of stick. How you deal with it is up to you but walking away won't help matters and may only hinder them. Stand up, show people they are wrong, use it as motivation, not as apathy.

This is so true - I know it and experience it every day. Sometimes you make mistakes and react in ways you shouldn't and those are held against you much longer than those much more often times when you conduct yourself as you should.

If you don't receive criticism, you can't learn from it, and you can't move forward. If you aren't moving forward, then you are moving backward. No such thing as standing still in life.

[47er]

I think he is refering to Glen working as a manager for WEC, not the document. If so that is a huge prejudical interest. Has this been the aim of the protest organisors all along? Even if it was not, it is how it 'could' be perceived, by any neutral observer. (hate to say it, but even Jerome Anderson mentioned, 'is there something else going on,' in his sky interview - is this what he was refering to?)

It would be in the interests of all Rovers fans and the club if a consortium with local fan involvement were to buy Rovers from Venkys.

So long as it was financially viable, I'd prefer it to a Qatari take-over. You can ask all your conspiracy questions as long as you like but your solution is still awaited.

[thenodrog]

It is frankly a very defeatist and undermining position some of you are taking on people that have never shown anything but good intentions with only the best for the Club at heart. I wish we could all just pull in one direction - it seems that a culture of suspicion and resentment has fostered up very quickly, and I understand that people are gun-shy.

Ever been to Blackburn Daniel? It'd be an eye opener for you. Suspicion, resentment accompanied with a hefty good dollop of cynicism is our preferred state. It's in bred.

[Majiball]

I would say that this is a crazy assumption based on...very little, if anything? A couple of people's personal opinions, and a coincidental employee/employer relationship?

I can fully understand the paranoia going on around Rovers at the moment, but this is seemingly reaching for straws here. I can categorically deny that anyone involved with the BRSIT initiative has any eyes on positions of management or influence at the Club. In fact, as will be published in the coming days, the Working Group being put together for the BRSIT will automatically be disbanded and completely dissolved upon the successful completion of its one and only goal, which is to achieve a supporters-based and controlled ownership model for Blackburn Rovers Football & Athletic PLC. A purely democratic process will determine a Board of Trustees who will then recruit a proper Board of Directors to run the Club in a largely independent manner to achieve the goals on and off the pitch that the owners (i.e. the Trust, i.e. the Supporters) have set for them to aim to.

The Working Group does not contain nor will it in all likelihood ever contain any active member of BRAG. BRAG only openly supports this initiative because it is the only one to have publicly announced itself to this point. The BRSIT has a long list of public support, that will be published as said in the coming days alongside an official press release. BRAG is just one of these groups/persons/companies.

It is frankly a very defeatist and undermining position some of you are taking on people that have never shown anything but good intentions with only the best for the Club at heart. I wish we could all just pull in one direction - it seems that a culture of suspicion and resentment has fostered up very quickly, and I understand that people are gun-shy. But these people do not deserve it. Some may have been clumsy in their wording and timing, but they shouldn't be crucified for that...just be more careful in the future how things can be interpreted!

You've got the right idea IE BRAG, BRST, FF must sort out their differences and work together, it's the only way now. But I have to ask if you've been following the last 18+ months of Rovers? LIES, LIES, LIES are all rovers fans have know since Venky's have taken over, of course there will be a cloud of suspicion from the fans. Venky's et al have created this cloud and if parties are seen to be holding back info, then that cloud will be transferred to them. It's only natural, you can call it defeatist all you want but that is the situation and you will have to work within that to have success in your goals.

BRAG should come out and say we are looking to help a buyer, not through protests but through the media. And stop protesting, publicly try and build dialogue with Venky's and shame them when they don't again publicly. In roads are obviously being built into Indian media and if the FF, BRAG BRST can sort out their issues then that's the way to go.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

You've got the right idea IE BRAG, BRST, FF must sort out their differences and work together, it's the only way now. But I have to ask if you've been following the last 18+ months of Rovers? LIES, LIES, LIES are all rovers fans have know since Venky's have taken over, of course there will be a cloud of suspicion from the fans. Venky's et al have created this cloud and if parties are seen to be holding back info, then that cloud will be transferred to them. It's only natural, you can call it defeatist all you want but that is the situation and you will have to work within that to have success in your goals.

BRAG should come out and say we are looking to help a buyer, not through protests but through the media. And stop protesting, publicly try and build dialogue with Venky's and shame them when they don't again publicly. In roads are obviously being built into Indian media and if the FF, BRAG BRST can sort out their issues then that's the way to go.

Great post and I agree with everything you've said!

[47er]

If any way forward is to transpire from this mess, then everything has to be out in the open. 18 months of lies from them (Venky's, Kean, JA etc) mean that this must be done. Transparency will be required to unite the fans into one body and only then can we strive to remove them from our club. Relegation does not matter as we cannot effect this season it's too little too late. FF, BRST et al must come together, compromise for the greater good and work together to remove this beast from our club.

You can't mean literally that everything should be out in the open. For example, everything includes the size of the offer any group decides to make. Once that's clear, then the vendor knows the bottom line and will negotiate up.

So some things will remain confidential as in all business dealings.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Ever been to Blackburn Daniel? It'd be an eye opener for you. Suspicion, resentment accompanied with a hefty good dollop of cynicism is our preferred state. It's in bred.

Indeed, but that wasn't the impression I got! Got put up for two weeks for free during my stay, with stubborn refusal to accept payment of any kind, and indeed wasn't allowed to pay for anything, even my Hendry home shirt (CIS sponsored)! Had two large men set up as an escort to watch over me for away matches vs Leeds and Everton, and was invited into peoples homes, etc. Never will forget that...

[Ste B]

Why are my posts being deleted?

Because your post contained a couple of insults.

[Majiball]

You can't mean literally that everything should be out in the open. For example, everything includes the size of the offer any group decides to make. Once that's clear, then the vendor knows the bottom line and will negotiate up.

So some things will remain confidential as in all business dealings.

Even things like that will eventually become public, but I'm not discussing the negotiation process for bidding. Trust is an issue within the fanbase at Rovers and so trust needs to be built to gain the unity needed to force them out. Factions have existed since the Sam era commenced and all we are seeing is a continuation of those factions. Venky's have driven big wedges into those factions with their media spin. The factions need re-uniting, it is possible as we were all together not so long ago, but this will only be achieved through openness and compromise. Bid amounts and so on aren't an issue if that trust exsists and is built, as those things will come further down the road. If trust exists then a competitive bid will be believed and amounts won't need disclosing.

[47er]

Even things like that will eventually become public, but I'm not discussing the negotiation process for bidding. Trust is an issue within the fanbase at Rovers and so trust needs to be built to gain the unity needed to force them out. Factions have existed since the Sam era commenced and all we are seeing is a continuation of those factions. Venky's have driven big wedges into those factions with their media spin. The factions need re-uniting, it is possible as we were all together not so long ago, but this will only be achieved through openness and compromise. Bid amounts and so on aren't an issue if that trust exsists and is built, as those things will come further down the road. If trust exists then a competitive bid will be believed and amounts won't need disclosing.

I agree. But you've no doubt worked out the motives of some who have their minds completely closed already whether they know anything or mot.

This is not Venky's doing its sheer rivalry from some, bloody-mindedness from others and both in some cases.

"that Glen Mullen's making a name for himself, I'm not having that" is a quick summary.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

If Glen does work for WEC then he'll obviously be declaring a prejudicial interest when any possible WEC takeover is discussed by the BRAG Committee.

I've been a Local Government Committee Officer for the last 10 years and that's as clear a prej interest as I've ever seen.

I would be forced to agree with you, if WEC had anything to do with the BRSIT initiative. But it just doesn't. Any connection to WEC is coincidental at most. I wonder how WEC even got into this discussion, other than Wayne is employed there. Where in any statement was it ever even hinted that Wayne was ever speaking about this on behalf of his employer and not as an individual? The only time he ever spoke about Blackburn Rovers on behalf of WEC was in relation to their substantial sponsorship deal and a call for Venkys to talk to them in regards to their continued commercial support via that sponsorship, and that was back in the fall.

As previously stated, I appreciate that things can be interpreted in different ways, and that the past 15 months has been a nightmare we all wish we could just wake up from, but it is quite a jump to make, and an incorrect one, to insinuate that the BRSIT initiative has anything to do with WEC in any official capacity whatsoever.

As for Glen, I honestly don't know what Glen's position is at WEC, but it is obviously not as a director or holding any other position of any material influence on that company's Board or their decision making process. As such, any prejudicial interest would be minimal at best, as he would have nothing material to gain even if WEC did theoretically somehow takeover the Club. How could he? He would continue his daily job at WEC and get paid his wage/salary, right? Is his prejudicial interest then bragging rights with his drinking mates, that the company he works for owns Rovers????

From what I have gathered, Glen is just a guy who actually dared to do something about the situation unfolding before him at the football club he loved. Because he was one of the first to act, he also finds himself spearheading the group that sprang up around him. He has conducted himself in the best way he knows how, in my opinion, and has never shown anything other than pure motives to save Blackburn Rovers Football Club as he knows it, and certainly couldn't have had a chance in hell of guessing that he would have ended up here now after originally just wanting the manager replaced. Of course mistakes have been made along the way, we are all human, and all of his and BRAG's mistakes will have been put under the microscope and over-analyzed because that group is the most publicly vocal and active.

I do agree that it is inevitable that one will receive criticism, whether it be fair or unfair - I mean I of all people should know that - and you do have to live with that. There are always going to be people that feel you could have done things a bit differently or conducted yourself in a different manner - this is all done with the benefit of hindsight, which makes criticism very easy indeed, and a lot of things being hammered on are simple tap-ins knowing what has come as a result. It is infinitely harder to put yourself out there and up for criticism. I daresay there are lots and lots of us here handing out the worst of the criticisms , but who would struggle under that same scrutiny.

My main point is to again repeat that the BRSIT initiative has no official or unofficial partnership with any group or entity at this point in time, and is the mutual creation of two individual supporters (Wayne and myself), but has gained the public support of many different independent parties, including those associated with supporters organizations (yes that is a plural), local businesses, and public and private persons - none of which have been financial in nature to this point in time. This list of public support will be published in a press release this week or next, as my understanding of the situation stands now.

[shivery85]

.....

Just a few random questions for you.....

Who is leading the protests? And who works for WEC?

Also do people think anyone from WEC wants any involvement/ power with the club?

Hughesy, seriousely wayne from wec has been life long rovers fan he wants best for club, he see's whats going on at the club, how can you accuse him or brag doing what your saying??

get a grip be a true rovers fan and wake up to what is happening at your club, people are trying to save the club what they love and want it to have a future in premier league, now with these 1st class idiots what are running rovers we arent gona be in any league with way thinbgs are going!!!

Seriousely do you think its right about an 18year old with no football experince running the club???

Is it right that the clown has to go to india, a week before a game?

is it right that there is a middle man to ask then he goes to the muppets in india and gets an answer from them???

If kean had nothing to do with club and its runnings then he would of been sacked plus he would be telling the muppets in dream land that things are in a bad situationa dn they need to be over here sorting problems out,

This is where proper buisness people would be there to sort there company out and any fan what has true love and commitment to the club would do just like wayne is doing!!!

Cause to be onist i wouldnt have venkys running a sweet shop

there a joke,

I think you should come a long to a meeting with brag and just meet people there before jumping the gun and saying its all corrupt and this n that!!!

Come to pub before game, we all meet in the brown cow before every home game!!

[Majiball]

I agree. But you've no doubt worked out the motives of some who have their minds completely closed already whether they know anything or mot.

This is not Venky's doing its sheer rivalry from some, bloody-mindedness from others and both in some cases.

"that Glen Mullen's making a name for himself, I'm not having that" is a quick summary.

I think it's nigh on impossible to accurately depict people's motives via posting on a message board. If anything people transfer their own believes and values onto others as the internet is so in-personal, judgement is difficult and that's all you are left with.

Glen isn't in this for personal gain, but he is a figurehead now and can effect change. GM has openly admitted they have made mistakes and called for constructive criticism; I have given that and offered my thoughts. What they do next is up to them, but openness and compromise will have to be done.

If I was in this for personal gain or to make a name for myself then, well I would have responded differently to PM's sent to me prior to the protests commencing. I'm suggesting a way forward to help remove Venky's as certain roads are now closed and help was requested.

[Pete1981]

http://www.rovers.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10303~2618388,00.html

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Even things like that will eventually become public, but I'm not discussing the negotiation process for bidding. Trust is an issue within the fanbase at Rovers and so trust needs to be built to gain the unity needed to force them out. Factions have existed since the Sam era commenced and all we are seeing is a continuation of those factions. Venky's have driven big wedges into those factions with their media spin. The factions need re-uniting, it is possible as we were all together not so long ago, but this will only be achieved through openness and compromise. Bid amounts and so on aren't an issue if that trust exsists and is built, as those things will come further down the road. If trust exists then a competitive bid will be believed and amounts won't need disclosing.

Another good and sensible post, Majiball! Agree 100%!!!

[shivery85]

The meeting was a debrief to the last couple of weeks where there has been no organised protest. It was never a formal minuted meeting hence why it was not widely advertised. People had the opportunity to raise anything they wished at the meeting and some duly did.

Overall the meeting went very well, as the groups plans continue to evolve.

Once again people who are uninformed continue to try and use their misinformation to belittle fellow supporters. Simon was most certainly present as were all committee members.

instead of heckeling why dont you just join website www.brfcactiongroup.org.uk, and you will find everything out there!!

[Majiball]

I would be forced to agree with you, if WEC had anything to do with the BRSIT initiative. But it just doesn't. Any connection to WEC is coincidental at most. I wonder how WEC even got into this discussion, other than Wayne is employed there. Where in any statement was it ever even hinted that Wayne was ever speaking about this on behalf of his employer and not as an individual? The only time he ever spoke about Blackburn Rovers on behalf of WEC was in relation to their substantial sponsorship deal and a call for Venkys to talk to them in regards to their continued commercial support via that sponsorship, and that was back in the fall.

As previously stated, I appreciate that things can be interpreted in different ways, and that the past 15 months has been a nightmare we all wish we could just wake up from, but it is quite a jump to make, and an incorrect one, to insinuate that the BRSIT initiative has anything to do with WEC in any official capacity whatsoever.

As for Glen, I honestly don't know what Glen's position is at WEC, but it is obviously not as a director or holding any other position of any material influence on that company's Board or their decision making process. As such, any prejudicial interest would be minimal at best, as he would have nothing material to gain even if WEC did theoretically somehow takeover the Club. How could he? He would continue his daily job at WEC and get paid his wage/salary, right? Is his prejudicial interest then bragging rights with his drinking mates, that the company he works for owns Rovers????

From what I have gathered, Glen is just a guy who actually dared to do something about the situation unfolding before him at the football club he loved. Because he was one of the first to act, he also finds himself spearheading the group that sprang up around him. He has conducted himself in the best way he knows how, in my opinion, and has never shown anything other than pure motives to save Blackburn Rovers Football Club as he knows it, and certainly couldn't have had a chance in hell of guessing that he would have ended up here now after originally just wanting the manager replaced. Of course mistakes have been made along the way, we are all human, and all of his and BRAG's mistakes will have been put under the microscope and over-analyzed because that group is the most publicly vocal and active.

I do agree that it is inevitable that one will receive criticism, whether it be fair or unfair - I mean I of all people should know that - and you do have to live with that. There are always going to be people that feel you could have done things a bit differently or conducted yourself in a different manner - this is all done with the benefit of hindsight, which makes criticism very easy indeed, and a lot of things being hammered on are simple tap-ins knowing what has come as a result. It is infinitely harder to put yourself out there and up for criticism. I daresay there are lots and lots of us here handing out the worst of the criticisms , but who would struggle under that same scrutiny.

My main point is to again repeat that the BRSIT initiative has no official or unofficial partnership with any group or entity at this point in time, and is the mutual creation of two individual supporters (Wayne and myself), but has gained the public support of many different independent parties, including those associated with supporters organizations (yes that is a plural), local businesses, and public and private persons - none of which have been financial in nature to this point in time. This list of public support will be published in a press release this week or next, as my understanding of the situation stands now.

If there's one thing the majority of people on this planet fail to grasp it is perception. Dan you are right at the crux of the fan buy-out and so you are aware of the inner workings and everything that has gone on, others are looking from the outside in. All most people know is that WW of WEC a sponsor made public the lack of communication with Venky's. Protests were going on at the time or about to start. So now that we've seen such statements as WW asked me to look over the proposal and we endorse it, those looking from the outside in will fill in the gaps based on what they have seen surrounding rovers in the interim. Deception has been at the fore and so that will be the most likely conclusion from the outside perception. It's not a reflection on GM or WW, it's just that people react and perceive based on their knowledge and experiences. Said knowledge and experiences of Rovers since the sale are very negative and distrustful, it's natural for people to do this when others come to the table. Transparency has been stated and yet this was hidden, again it's just fuel for the fire. I know 100% that initially WW was not the instigator of the protests, but others don't and won't and so consequently will fall back on what they know and perceive to judge. It's all about perception and without appreciation of others perceptions these types of movements will fail. Just as you look at a Monet and bask in its beauty, I look at it and think WTF is that, only through reason, explaination and understanding will you change my perception of his painting.