[Archived] Fans Forum Statement

[bob fleming]

Whilst I agree i would like to see the FF be more open a forecful in their statement we have to remember their role which I believe was a vehicle for communication between fans and the club.

If they were to burn their bridges with the club they would lose that opportunity permenantly, by being "diplomatic" they retain the prospect of actually communicationg with people everybody else is struggling to.

We as supporters can not agree on the best way forward so in my eyes there has to be alternative approaches, none of which seem to have worked so far but I respect the relevant groups that are sticking to their guns and not jumping one way or the other because they get stick from certain elements of the support.

It is exactloy the kind of statement I would expect from the FF in their role, just like the statements from others have been what I expect, a sponsor being digruntled with the impact on his brand image, protesters unhappy with the running of the club and the manager.

They all serve their purpose of trying to do what's best for the club in their own ways.

+1 The Gull.

They can but try. Someone's got to leave an avenue open for Venkys to talk, no matter how ridiculous their silence is. The temptation must of course be to tell them straight and the chances are they won't listen anyway, however another critical statement "from the fans" of their tenure would undoubtedly just be ignored again.

(edit: Well there you go only2garns)

[SouthAussieRover]

Well only2garners that post leaves you open to the suspicion that you'd willingly go to Pune again

If that should happen again find a place on the plane for Abbey please.

[SAS]

Comes across to me that the FF are getting annoyed and is issuing a plea before they become anti venkys??

[blue_n_white99]

This statement reminds me of weak, milky tea. No use to man nor beast.

[only2garners]

I'm on record as saying that I would go to Pune again at my own expense if I thought it would do any good. Right now I can't see that it would but you never know.

[Exiled in Toronto]

It's all about outcomes and we're not doing very well really: communication cut off, finances (such as they were) cut off; Kean still here. To catch a tiger you have to think like a tiger, not complain that tigers don't think like us, so I think it's wise of the FF to be trying a different tack to the BRAG

[A cup of beans]

I understand and see the FF's logic in the statement.

It speaks of real disappointment, but also hope for improved relations.

I see this change of tact (from the usual, anger and confrontation) as a last desperate attempt at some dialogue.

will it work ? on the evidence so far.. no.

If it doesn't work, i would hope for a change in tone and stance in the future.

I cannot critisise the FF for the tone and stance of this statement or the sentiments within.

[Steve Moss]

Though I think the statement is more than a bit late, it was nevertheless a step in the right direction. Well done.

Has the Leader of the anti-'Tremblers' agreed on this as well?

Would that be The Supreme Groveler Ewood Spark?

He's probably far too busy writing Kean 500 letters a day full of praise and support.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Nothing new or any change of tact from the statement, it is more a continuation of their current stance. I’m not sure what people expect from the FF, as far as I'm aware it's their policy not to discuss or raise issues relating to ‘on the field’ matters.

[only2garners]

Nothing new or any change of tact from the statement, it is more a continuation of their current stance. I’m not sure what people expect from the FF, as far as I'm aware it's their policy not to discuss or raise issues relating to ‘on the field’ matters.

It's not a question of it being our policy not to talk about on the field matters. It was a stipulation set by John Williams when he set the Forum up. Currently under Paul Hunt we are working towards a wider definition of what we talk about. In truth in John's day he would come along a couple of times each year and talk about all sorts of stuff, most of which could not be minuted. Our essential problem now is, that unlike in John's time, we are not speaking to someone who can make commitments and decisions in the meetings. Effectively John had the authorisation to run most aspects of the business and Paul does not.

[BlueMonday]

Comes across to me that the FF are getting annoyed and is issuing a plea before they become anti venkys??

Slightly miffed by the tone of that statement. Venkys need a Rocket up em.

They are acting like spoilt rich kids.

GET A GRIP YOU NUMPTYS!!!!!!!

[Baz]

Our essential problem now is, that unlike in John's time, we are not speaking to someone who can make commitments and decisions in the meetings. Effectively John had the authorisation to run most aspects of the business and Paul does not.

I respect the points about trying to restart a dialogue with the owners, but if Paul Hunt is unable to deal with the bigger issues that need addressing, then why issue the statement at all?

Opening the pre-meetings to others, when you are all aware what the issues raised will be, but admit the person you are raising them to cannot deal with, seems to be a futile gesture. What do you actually hope to achieve by the open pre-meet? If people ask you to raise issues about Kean and Venkys then its outaide the FF remit and you wont get any answers, probably causing a bigger divide between other fans and the FF IMO.It would be a better idea for Mr Hunt to hold a more open Q&A session at Ewood with all fans who want to attend, that to be filmed and sent to Pune.

Whilst Im sure the FF do a good job in helping the club with certain issues, there is no formal representation of all Rovers fans via the FF. Therefore you only represent your own views as individuals and those whose views co-incide with yours.

[ABBEY]

Comes across to me that the FF are getting annoyed and is issuing a plea before they become anti venkys??

How any rovers fan isn't anti venky now buggers belief ..sar I would not go and see the scumbags even if I was paid.

[OscarRaven]

I couldn't have put it better myself Gull.

We basically had two choices. We could have decided that continued meetings were not worth it and flounced out with a hard hitting statement. That might have made us feel a bit better and no doubt it would have got some short term publicity in the local media, but it would not have been picked up nationally and would have disappeared in days. It would certainly have been ignored in Pune. Then we would be left with no fans at all having any sort of conversation with anyone at the club.

Or we could have done what we have done - expressed disappointment that overtures made in Pune have not been followed through but reiterated our commitment to keep talking to the management in Ewood and keep encouraging dialogue with Venkys. It might not make exciting reading but we want to try to change things for the better and we have an advantage in having a platform at least to ask questions. The protest groups are busy expressing outrage at the situation - our approach is different because of our different positions.

To answer a previous poster, yes it has been widely distributed but it looks like the LET and Radio Lancashire are not interested. There's nothing much we can do about that.

Our offer for other fans to get involved remains, either via the pre-meets or by applying to join the Forum.

Venky Apologist rubbish.

Such a weak and apathetic statement from the 'offcial' fans voice simply dilutes a clear message. You have done more harm than good there.

Best part of 5 months, the club facing one of the greatest threats to its existance in 137 years and thats it?

You really expect people to turn up with the lost hope of wanting to join your band of sycophants? No wonder a bloke and his mates from the pub have taken over as our representatives.

Kean Out

Venky's Out

Fans forum Out

The calls for your resignation as forum enmasse a few months ago were for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't go as a message to Venky's, you should go because your an embarrassment to Blackburn Rovers Supporters.

Shocking absolutley shocking.

[HemelRover]

Venkys need a Rocket up em.

Problem is that it doesnt seem to have had the desired effect so far. Maybe that the FF are trying something different?

[yoda]

Problem is that it doesnt seem to have had the desired effect so far. Maybe that the FF are trying something different?

the water is lapping around their feet

[PAFELL]

Venky Apologist rubbish.

Such a weak and apathetic statement from the 'offcial' fans voice simply dilutes a clear message. You have done more harm than good there.

Best part of 5 months, the club facing one of the greatest threats to its existance in 137 years and thats it?

You really expect people to turn up with the lost hope of wanting to join your band of sycophants? No wonder a bloke and his mates from the pub have taken over as our representatives.

Kean Out

Venky's Out

Fans forum Out

The calls for your resignation as forum enmasse a few months ago were for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't go as a message to Venky's, you should go because your an embarrassment to Blackburn Rovers Supporters.

Shocking absolutley shocking.

I think folk do not understand the FF remit. They deal with things like, tickets, parking, pies etc. They may share various views on owners / manager etc. But keep to themselves as it not part of their remit.

Just the same as those who run and admin this website. They may have personal views. But they keep them to themselves. It is how they chose to operate.

Right or wrong does come into it. Both the FF & this site play roles, without taking sides. That is how I look at both the FF & the owners of this site.

Yes the FF were invited to pune. They know what was said to them. Therefore have raised the unfulfilled promises, made to them.

Maybe I have misunderstood. But I get the impression the FF still want dialogue with venkys.

[Silittl]

Personally the statement is factually incorrect as the FF claim to represent the fans. How can a group so out of touch with the fans, not elected democratically by fans claim to represent the view of the fans.

Secondly this statement is not only very weak but in my opinion but far to soft and full of desperation and sucking up to Mrs D. If the FF had taken a stronger stance earlier, signed the joint statement they may have got far more respect. In addition there would have been no need for new groups like the BRFC Action Group to start. Though if my memory serves me correctly it was a was someone on the here who encouraged the Glen Mullan to start the protests in the first instance and given advice by other memebers of BRFCS.

So in short we in the Action Group get slated for protesting but it was people on involved in this forum who encouraged it to start. In addition it is our work and communication with Local MP's that assisted in Graham Jones MP's statement in Parliment. So those who criticise us for not getting anywhere. At least we are keeping the plight in the public eye. Unlike the FF who have sat on there backsides doing nothing and when they do it is about as much use as a chocolate fire guard.(with the exception of a couple in the FF who have tried to take a stance but got told to keep quiet)

[imy9]

Venky Apologist rubbish.

Such a weak and apathetic statement from the 'offcial' fans voice simply dilutes a clear message. You have done more harm than good there.

Best part of 5 months, the club facing one of the greatest threats to its existance in 137 years and thats it?

You really expect people to turn up with the lost hope of wanting to join your band of sycophants? No wonder a bloke and his mates from the pub have taken over as our representatives.

Kean Out

Venky's Out

Fans forum Out

The calls for your resignation as forum enmasse a few months ago were for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't go as a message to Venky's, you should go because your an embarrassment to Blackburn Rovers Supporters.

Shocking absolutley shocking.

I think the shocker is your statement right there.

The FF have done a lot of good for the fans over a number of years and the people willingly give up their time voluntarily to help Rovers fans.

What exactly has shouting at Venkys achieved? It makes sense for the FF to leave the lines of communication open.

FF, Glen, Daniel etc whoever is trying to make Rovers better by giving up their time and putting in effort need applauding not derision IMO.

Finally we the supporters are almost being asked to choose a side here FF on one side and Protest organisers on the other, with blame being thrown around about who is doing what, unity is required.

[Silittl]

I think the shocker is your statement right there.

The FF have done a lot of good for the fans over a number of years and the people willingly give up their time voluntarily to help Rovers fans.

What exactly has shouting at Venkys achieved? It makes sense for the FF to leave the lines of communication open.

FF, Glen, Daniel etc whoever is trying to make Rovers better by giving up their time and putting in effort need applauding not derision IMO.

Finally we the supporters are almost being asked to choose a side here FF on one side and Protest organisers on the other, with blame being thrown around about who is doing what, unity is required.

I applaud your loyalty but some of those who quoted above are two faced and not as innocent as they make out

I think the shocker is your statement right there.

The FF have done a lot of good for the fans over a number of years and the people willingly give up their time voluntarily to help Rovers fans.

What exactly has shouting at Venkys achieved? It makes sense for the FF to leave the lines of communication open.

FF, Glen, Daniel etc whoever is trying to make Rovers better by giving up their time and putting in effort need applauding not derision IMO.

Finally we the supporters are almost being asked to choose a side here FF on one side and Protest organisers on the other, with blame being thrown around about who is doing what, unity is required.

We as organisers of the protests have tried to bring all groups and forums together and got buy in from some but the FF seem to resist our approach with the exception of one member. A unified approach is required but it needs to a strong voice not pussy footing around the issues.

Hence why Graham Graham Jones MP and Wayne Wild have openly backed our efforts to bring everyone togehter under one voice.

[den]

So in short we in the Action Group get slated for protesting but it was people on involved in this forum who encouraged it to start. In addition it is our work and communication with Local MP's that assisted in Graham Jones MP's statement in Parliment. So those who criticise us for not getting anywhere. At least we are keeping the plight in the public eye. Unlike the FF who have sat on there backsides doing nothing and when they do it is about as much use as a chocolate fire guard.(with the exception of a couple in the FF who have tried to take a stance but got told to keep quiet)

There's a strange stance being taken by some posters, that says that the protests are making no difference to the Raos, yet they argue on the other hand that they are making the situation worse - which one is it?

Firstly, IMO I have to say what protests? I can count the number of protests, organised or otherwise on one hand. It isn't the fans protests that have had an effect, it's the overall criticism from all media branches that's hurt them. That criticism was needed and inevitable. If they continue to hide away, they'll get even more. They, the owners, by refusing any kind of dialogue with anyone, are making all this worse, certainly not the supporters.

[Mattyblue]

If the FF only talk about pies, the price of ale and such like, why do they need 'dialogue with the owners' at all? Shouldn't chatting with Paul Hunt et al suffice? Or have they got ideas above their station?

[Ste B]

We as organisers of the protests have tried to bring all groups and forums together and got buy in from some but the FF seem to resist our approach with the exception of one member. A unified approach is required but it needs to a strong voice not pussy footing around the issues.

If you'd been at your open supporters meeting, then you'd know that 3 of us agreed on that action and to take that to the next FF meeting. I believe that some form of joint group was going to be setup, but thats all gone quiet (I appreciate that this is probably due to getting BRAGS constitution sorted)

[AndyNeil]

I think its fair to say that this thread has gone to form, with those critical of the FF (since the trip to Pune was announced) not having much time for the statement. We are representative of the clubs fan base in terms of the age, sex, race, disability which is were the confusion/misunderstanding around the word of representative may arise.

I'm going to try and respond to some of the points raised:

DE4life - I know that the statement was sent to the print media, however whether they choose to run it is very much out of our control. I also know that O2G did an interview with a local radio station.

Mattyblue - it is my understanding that everybody on the FF put their name to this statement.

LDrover - just to confirm that we have NOT signed an NDA.

trueblue - we meet with members of the board just like BRAG do, if we should disband then surely it would follow that BRAG should also disband?

OscarRaven - do you know any of the FF personally?

Simon Littler - I don't agree with the approach you have taken in terms of protest. "A unified approach is required" as long as it is the BRAG approach - sorry if that seems harsh, however this is my personal opinion.

[Silittl]

Ste B I am fully aware of the agreement and could not attend for personal reasons. However the constitution will be sorted tonight hopefully at the first committee meeting.

In addition neither should our constitution hold up a process that is very much needed and quickly.

Unity is required but so is open and honest dialogue between all groups and forums! As above I have openly aired my views on the FF and in person to certain members!

I am not trying create divide but be honest. BRAG have made mistakes and we will openly admit that. However we are still evolving as a group.

I apologise if my posts seem aggressive but I am someone who says what I think.

I am happy to meet or discuss anything with any group. But as fans we need to create one voice and become more inclusive in any action that is taken at the VILLA game. If any is taken at all.