[Archived] Fans Forum Statement

[AndyNeil]

Significantly, when members of the Fans Forum went to Pune, we were told by them, in no uncertain terms, that they were not representing the fans, they were invited as individuals and representing only themselves.

The statement reads like one of those Commonwealth Conference communiques where no agreement was reached but they have to put something out anyway. Not impressed.

Not impressed, hardly suprising. If some people say you are going representing the fans and some say you are going not representing the fans, which way would you jump? Just to correct you on something you have got wrong, we weren't invited as individuals but infact Venkys invited a number of the FF over who inturn ran an 'election' and those with the most votes went.

[47er]

Not impressed, hardly suprising. If some people say you are going representing the fans and some say you are going not representing the fans, which way would you jump? Just to correct you on something you have got wrong, we weren't invited as individuals but infact Venkys invited a number of the FF over who inturn ran an 'election' and those with the most votes went.

When we criticised certain elements of that trip,certain members of the "Pune 9" told us they were not there representing fan's view but to put their own. Ewood Spark for one. I'm not going to trawl through

months of posts to find it but don't you remember that? That's my point.

[Silittl]

Glen I think you need to look again at your comment at not being able to stand for a place on the BRAG. The positions were open to anyone who were endorsed by five people. Then it was voted for by fans.

BRAG is a fans group elected by fans and there is no membership of the group so anyone could have been nominated and voted for either on the website or on the night if you attended the meeting.

If you wish to stand next year please free as the committee is elected Annually by the fans.

[Baz]

I respect the points about trying to restart a dialogue with the owners, but if Paul Hunt is unable to deal with the bigger issues that need addressing, then why issue the statement at all?

Opening the pre-meetings to others, when you are all aware what the issues raised will be, but admit the person you are raising them to cannot deal with, seems to be a futile gesture. What do you actually hope to achieve by the open pre-meet? If people ask you to raise issues about Kean and Venkys then its outaide the FF remit and you wont get any answers, probably causing a bigger divide between other fans and the FF IMO.It would be a better idea for Mr Hunt to hold a more open Q&A session at Ewood with all fans who want to attend, that to be filmed and sent to Pune.

Whilst Im sure the FF do a good job in helping the club with certain issues, there is no formal representation of all Rovers fans via the FF. Therefore you only represent your own views as individuals and those whose views co-incide with yours.

I'd appreciate if a member of the FF replied to these questions I posted last night.

Also, if I could get multiquote to work, Paul is correct, the fans need to stand united behind 1 fans group who are elected and representative of all fans. No group is currently doing that.

[47er]

Loved this comment on the FF's statement from the LT:

davemal says...

11:25am Wed 15 Feb 12

We'll probably make contact with life on other planets before making contact with the Venkeys.

:D

[Baz]

Not impressed, hardly suprising. If some people say you are going representing the fans and some say you are going not representing the fans, which way would you jump? Just to correct you on something you have got wrong, we weren't invited as individuals but infact Venkys invited a number of the FF over who inturn ran an 'election' and those with the most votes went.

The FF do not represent the fans as they arent elected by the fans - Im not knocking those on the FF - but what mandate do you have to represent my and any other fans views?

[Ste B]

Glen I think you need to look again at your comment at not being able to stand for a place on the BRAG. The positions were open to anyone who were endorsed by five people. Then it was voted for by fans.

BRAG is a fans group elected by fans and there is no membership of the group so anyone could have been nominated and voted for either on the website or on the night if you attended the meeting.

If you wish to stand next year please free as the committee is elected Annually by the fans.

I believe the point was that people didn't know that elections and nominations were ongoing. ( I did and even voucched for mikey ). Glen then mentioned he would have liked to stand and others said they would withdraw if so. Given brags members and stance I doubt he would ever have been elected though..

[AndyNeil]

like I said when opinion was split 50/50 which way do you jump? However to use the response of one member of the 'Pune9' to beat the rest of us when (if you agree with us going or not) we went with the best of intentions is a bit of a low blow, isn't it?

[Ste B]

The FF do not represent the fans as they arent elected by the fans - Im not knocking those on the FF - but what mandate do you have to represent my and any other fans views?

Given previous interest elections not required. It's a group of people who got if their arses and volunteered over a number of years. Simply nobody has been turned away.

[AndyNeil]

47er meet Baz, Baz meet 47er...and there in lies the problem we faced. Did we represent the fans, or didn't we?

[Paul]

Glen I think you need to look again at your comment at not being able to stand for a place on the BRAG. The positions were open to anyone who were endorsed by five people. Then it was voted for by fans.

BRAG is a fans group elected by fans and there is no membership of the group so anyone could have been nominated and voted for either on the website or on the night if you attended the meeting.

If you wish to stand next year please free as the committee is elected Annually by the fans.

Interesting statement which I would beg to differ with. I don't know how many people voted but given only 40 turned up to the Open Meeting (granted this was not connected with electing a BRAG committee), 38 of whom appeared to be web based, and Rovers have a support of perhaps 20-25,000 regulars how can BRAG claim to be representative. The committee was voted in by people who knew of the elections.

My question would be who actually knew?

[47er]

like I said when opinion was split 50/50 which way do you jump? However to use the response of one member of the 'Pune9' to beat the rest of us when (if you agree with us going or not) we went with the best of intentions is a bit of a low blow, isn't it?

He was supported by others of you at the time so "no".

[Baz]

Given previous interest elections not required. It's a group of people who got if their arses and volunteered over a number of years. Simply nobody has been turned away.

I understand how people have entered onto the FF, however it doesnt give you a mandate to represent anyone other than yourselves (I do know and understand that the FF members do try and put across the views of everyone where possible too).

The fans should be united behind 1 group who are elected and accountable o those who elect them. This maybe should be the Supporters Trust, but there is nothing really in place to get behind as Im yet to see anything of real note from them.

[Silittl]

Ste I take issue with your post in the fact the election were posted on the website and FB. So was the criteria so your comment about the elections are wide of the mark to say the least. As for our members I personally have only the majority through the action taken by BRAG nor do I know Glen personally. It is my opinion that everyone who was nominated or could have been nominated would have been given more than a fair chance.

Irrelevant of the above groups need to unite and the sooner the better. Instead of derailing one and other. BRAG have there vision which covers many avenues and will put out in the next couple of weeks.

One which provides the fans a clear view of our end goal and shows we are not just about protests but what we believe is in the best interests of BRFC.

Should anyone wish to talk to me about please feel free to do so either by DM, in person or ask for my number and I'll talk to you

[Baz]

47er meet Baz, Baz meet 47er...and there in lies the problem we faced. Did we represent the fans, or didn't we?

No you were a group of fans invited to Pune. You may (did) put over the views of many fans, but you are in no way accountable to the fans, therefore not representative.

[Tom]

I understand how people have entered onto the FF, however it doesnt give you a mandate to represent anyone other than yourselves (I do know and understand that the FF members do try and put across the views of everyone where possible too).

The fans should be united behind 1 group who are elected and accountable o those who elect them. This maybe should be the Supporters Trust, but there is nothing really in place to get behind as Im yet to see anything of real note from them.

I think the supporters trust needs to come into this gap personally.

BRAG is forming well for what it is but will still be seen as the more militant group by a lot, what is needed is a neutral group and I think BRST would be a perfect fit where anyone can join with an elected committee, if that isn't something the organisers want to do then somebody send out the BRISA signal!

[Silittl]

May I also add that as BRAG is in its infancy we do not have the contacts or finances to reach the masses. So as the group grows we welcome everyone to join or to share ideas.

[AndyNeil]

He was supported by others of you at the time so "no".

fair enough, but for the third time when you are faced with one group of people saying that you DO represent them and another group of people saying that you DON'T represent them - which way do you jump?

[Baz]

I think the supporters trust needs to come into this gap personally.

BRAG is forming well for what it is but will still be seen as the more militant group by a lot, what is needed is a neutral group and I think BRST would be a perfect fit where anyone can join with an elected committee, if that isn't something the organisers want to do then somebody send out the BRISA signal!

Agreed.

[SAS]

I think the supporters trust needs to come into this gap personally.

BRAG is forming well for what it is but will still be seen as the more militant group by a lot, what is needed is a neutral group and I think BRST would be a perfect fit where anyone can join with an elected committee, if that isn't something the organisers want to do then somebody send out the BRISA signal!

Agree with this post.

Didn't all represented groups at the meeting put their support behind BRST. It's the natural choice and is a group that has been formed pre venkys....

[mark1875]

I believe the point was that people didn't know that elections and nominations were ongoing. ( I did and even voucched for mikey ). Glen then mentioned he would have liked to stand and others said they would withdraw if so. Given brags members and stance I doubt he would ever have been elected though..

considering two days before he criticised the protests in his blog he would never have got on tbh. he doesn't agree with the brag. however if there is a seat on a committee some people will take it no matter what

[47er]

fair enough, but for the third time when you are faced with one group of people saying that you DO represent them and another group of people saying that you DON'T represent them - which way do you jump?

I honestly thought you were representing us till I read some of the stuff on your return! But this is old ground now and I agree that 1 over-arching body is necessary to speak for us all. Any steps towards that I applaud.

[Silittl]

Tom the problem I see with the trust is that certain members of FF are trying get on the committee and therefore it could dilute or even weaken the position the trust has to take in terms of the middle ground.

But the facts are clear for us all to see any action in whatever way must be done withone voice which ever side of the fence we sit on

[AndyNeil]

Sent you a PM Simon.

[SAS]

Tom the problem I see with the trust is that certain members of FF are trying get on the committee and therefore it could dilute or even weaken the position the trust has to take in terms of the middle ground.

But the facts are clear for us all to see any action in whatever way must be done withone voice which ever side of the fence we sit on

I'd say the same of BRAG, from an outsider it seems very clicky...

And any other group for that matter...

An advertised (using methods suggested in the manxman meeting) open meeting for BRST to form a committee is IMO the right way to proceed.