[Archived] Fans Forum Statement

[PAFELL]

as i said in my after post if glens namesake was honest about his involvement in the protests, Paul would not be so direct. just because paul knows nothing shouldn't be held against him. providing my post remains :-)

I do not understand this post. Paul asked about a statement that he had read on facebook, which according to how I read the post has now been removed. Unless I have missed something.

Then he was told he was trying to point score etc etc etc.

[glen9mullan]

Go on spell it out for me, I dont understand what you mean.

All I will say on the matter, is do you think I woke up on one morning and said, lets protest??? Things can never be achieved alone and I was influenced by a number of supporters and educated in the approach I should take etc,

I didnt have a clue where to start pre Arsenal, or what a press release was, I needed guidance and help, sadly those who pushed for this, quickly hid when the real work started through their own agenda's which is sad, when I read so many post of inuendo's

[PAFELL]

It was a splinter FB group, who felt we did too much by the book and they wanted to turn ewood into a warzone, this is something I would never get involved in, as we are football supporters

This is not a dig. But why did you not inform people on here about that at the time? Others unknowingly could have got mixed up in that group.

[Silittl]

I honestly believe that the only way forward is for everyone who knows something or has s

[glen9mullan]

I think you're both on record as big supporters of John Williams and his methods, but maybe you have both forgotten how the Fans Forum came to be.

John Williams made it happen 13 years ago, by taking on board the passion some fans had for the club, displayed by their letters / calls / rants / personal visits - mainly negative as you'd expect - and he put that together, added in representation from regional groups (eg South Lancs, North Lancs, Disabled, Asian), and created the Fans Forum.

Those initial selection criteria set down by John Williams have been respected ever since. Nobody can really argue that there is any better way of selecting a panel of fans who represent a true cross section of the support, and nobody can say that John Williams got the initial idea wrong either. Until Pune, nobody ever did.

I'm baffled. I have the Lancashire Telegraph delivered every morning, I am internet connected, on Twitter, Facebook, I have an Ewood Park Season Ticket, I drink in Blues Bar after every single home game, I play 5-a-side in a Rovers shirt every Saturday morning in the Soccerdome, I listen to the radio, I have plenty of mates who have protested officially and others who have ranted in despair from the terraces, and yet more who have just stopped going on Ewood. But I had no idea how to vote in your election never mind partake in it. Neither did anyone else I spoke to in Blues last week, or at the Soccerdome. Or the people I spoke to from the Northern Ireland branch who were over for the game, or the people from the London branch who were up for the game. Or the people I have spoken to who don't go to Ewood anymore.

What's more, I attended your first public meeting in the Jack Walker pub and left my contact details on a piece of paper which went around - and I still didn't know how to vote or take part. I don't even know to this day who stood, who won, who lost or what the positions up for election were??

So just wondering how you define "everyone"??

Messages to Venkys. What have we seen ... 5 months of open protests, banners at home and in India, main sponsor going public on several occasions, local MPs going public (and one actually bringing it up in Westminster), local council leader going public, Lancashire Telegraph using their front page to hit Venkys as hard as is possible locally, a well publicised joint statement from every website going, 3 public meetings, pleas in public and in private from Ian B and Ian C for communication, a massively powerful leaked letter to Venkys from former board directors with associated hard hitting comment from Nick Harris ...

... and you are murdering the Fans Forum for trying something slightly different???? Even though to a person, everyone on the Fans Forum wants the same outcome as you and all BRFC fans??

Do you have a better idea lined up which you will share with us?

We are simple football supporters and word was spread the best we could with the limited resources we have,

You still have not explained this alternative approach, whilst the action you speak about above are all action group initiatives yet we are the ones taking the flack

[Silittl]

I honestly believe that the only way forward is for everyone who knows something spills the beans as they say. That way the truth will be out and we can all move on trying to save our Club.

Scoring points and slagging one and other off is doing all of us no favours what so ever. In fact it's getting us ridiculed so either put up or shut up and lts get on with the task in hand.

Saving BRFC from destruction!

[PAFELL]

I think you're both on record as big supporters of John Williams and his methods, but maybe you have both forgotten how the Fans Forum came to be.

John Williams made it happen 13 years ago, by taking on board the passion some fans had for the club, displayed by their letters / calls / rants / personal visits - mainly negative as you'd expect - and he put that together, added in representation from regional groups (eg South Lancs, North Lancs, Disabled, Asian), and created the Fans Forum.

Those initial selection criteria set down by John Williams have been respected ever since. Nobody can really argue that there is any better way of selecting a panel of fans who represent a true cross section of the support, and nobody can say that John Williams got the initial idea wrong either. Until Pune, nobody ever did.

I'm baffled. I have the Lancashire Telegraph delivered every morning, I am internet connected, on Twitter, Facebook, I have an Ewood Park Season Ticket, I drink in Blues Bar after every single home game, I play 5-a-side in a Rovers shirt every Saturday morning in the Soccerdome, I listen to the radio, I have plenty of mates who have protested officially and others who have ranted in despair from the terraces, and yet more who have just stopped going on Ewood. But I had no idea how to vote in your election never mind partake in it. Neither did anyone else I spoke to in Blues last week, or at the Soccerdome. Or the people I spoke to from the Northern Ireland branch who were over for the game, or the people from the London branch who were up for the game. Or the people I have spoken to who don't go to Ewood anymore.

What's more, I attended your first public meeting in the Jack Walker pub and left my contact details on a piece of paper which went around - and I still didn't know how to vote or take part. I don't even know to this day who stood, who won, who lost or what the positions up for election were??

So just wondering how you define "everyone"??

Messages to Venkys. What have we seen ... 5 months of open protests, banners at home and in India, main sponsor going public on several occasions, local MPs going public (and one actually bringing it up in Westminster), local council leader going public, Lancashire Telegraph using their front page to hit Venkys as hard as is possible locally, a well publicised joint statement from every website going, 3 public meetings, pleas in public and in private from Ian B and Ian C for communication, a massively powerful leaked letter to Venkys from former board directors with associated hard hitting comment from Nick Harris ...

... and you are murdering the Fans Forum for trying something slightly different???? Even though to a person, everyone on the Fans Forum wants the same outcome as you and all BRFC fans??

Do you have a better idea lined up which you will share with us?

Some very good points raised in this post.

[SouthAussieRover]

as i said in my after post if glens namesake was honest about his involvement in the protests, Paul would not be so direct. just because paul knows nothing shouldn't be held against him. providing my post remains :-)

What are you implying re Glenn P's involvement?

[glen9mullan]

This is not a dig. But why did you not inform people on here about that at the time? Others unknowingly could have got mixed up in that group.

Tbh, im just a supporter like you, and its not my job to bring up everything I see, the group quickly distanced itself from the group, and the world does not revolve around BRFCS. I post what I can and when I can as my spare time is becoming increasingky absorbed

[Miker]

This is like a soap opera.

[Tris]

We are simple football supporters and word was spread the best we could with the limited resources we have,

Excellent ... just sorry you missed everyone I know and lost my contact details from your public meeting.

it eclipsed the 1000 mark which is far more than any other group

So you'll publish the voting details straight away then, because that's 1 in every 15 attendees at Ewood, so we'll all know someone who has taken part.

[Silittl]

Tbh, im just a supporter like you, and its not my job to bring up everything I see, the group quickly distanced itself from the group, and the world does not revolve around BRFCS. I post what I can and when I can as my spare time is becoming increasingky absorbed

PAFELL I personally spoke to the police about this group and informed them of what we knew!

Why cos I take my little lad to every game and protest and his safety along with other Rovers fans is a concern of BRAG. Hence why we distanced ourselves and reported it to police. We do not and will not ever condone any form of illegal activity.

I hope this puts that point to bed

[mark1875]

What are you implying re Glenn P's involvement?

What i am implying is, since this as turned into a fans forum v BRAG thread is the following:

The BRAG has been transparent and honest and told no lies all the way through

A member of the fans forum whom has been well respected on this site has kept quiet regards his involvement in the protests, and he was not the only 'high up' member of this site to do this.

One group is transparent, one is holding a secret

Paul can make wild accusations and wild conspiracy theories all he wishes, the fans forum member who traveled to Pune assured to me Paul had been filled in! However it still appears Paul remains clueless.

The proof is there to show which group is transparent and honest and whom is not telling the truth!!

Take your conspiracies away form the Action Group Paul!! because if i began to deny them and issued the proof, i would seriously discredit this site and the fans forum!

I don't blame you for the fact you're 'friends' aren't being honest with you, however i was assured you knew the truth, yet your clearly clueless.

You have my pity

[glen9mullan]

Excellent ... just sorry you missed everyone I know and lost my contact details from your public meeting.

So you'll publish the voting details straight away then, because that's 1 in every 15 attendees at Ewood, so we'll all know someone who has taken part.

As fan forum members did vote then im more than sure you will know them

[Tom]

This is like a soap opera.

Worse than that it's bloody pathetic, people on both sides saying 'let's work together' then a bit later taking pot shots.

You know what I don't understand the need for it, there should be no us v them scenario at all as it's two factions on the same team.

There's stuff being brought up in here that isn't even relevant just to score points.

[Baz]

I think you're both on record as big supporters of John Williams and his methods, but maybe you have both forgotten how the Fans Forum came to be.

John Williams made it happen 13 years ago, by taking on board the passion some fans had for the club, displayed by their letters / calls / rants / personal visits - mainly negative as you'd expect - and he put that together, added in representation from regional groups (eg South Lancs, North Lancs, Disabled, Asian), and created the Fans Forum.

Those initial selection criteria set down by John Williams have been respected ever since. Nobody can really argue that there is any better way of selecting a panel of fans who represent a true cross section of the support, and nobody can say that John Williams got the initial idea wrong either. Until Pune, nobody ever did.

Tris as a non-member of the FF how do I vote to keep you on or remove you from the FF? If you read my posts in no way am I knocking what the FF. The FF is representative of only a cross-section of Rovers fans, but the arent representative of the fans because they arent accountable to the fans.

BRISA was a better idea, but got nowhere. In the current climate it would be much harder even with BRISA purely because it appears no one in Pune is speaking to anyone in the UK.

[Ste B]

In the current climate it would be much harder even with BRISA purely because it appears no one in Pune is speaking to anyone in the UK.

Which is why, despite how unpopular it may be that the FF is still trying.

As fan forum members did vote then im more than sure you will know them

I didnt vote, I suggested a member who didnt get on, as I thought he'd provide a good amount of balance.

[bob fleming]

I'm bored now. Sorry.

So we protest to the owners who don't attend or listen or speak. Smashing. We get slaughtered in the Press for this with the exception of the LT.

The fans are divided as well. This is a huge OG. The protests need buy in. It's not there. Why? 99% of Rovers fans are immensely ###### off. Why are the BRAG failing to gain support? It's not apathy. It's not that no one cares. It's the fact that no one likes to be told what to do. The protests must gain empathy; speak to people and try and work out why they're not walking round in yellow and black?(obvious really, "not our bloody colours, I didn't wear any bloody colours int' enclosure when we got shut of Saxton you daft buggers")

I'd wager that not many BRFC fans over 45 go on Facebook, if they do then I'd suggest they're not impressed. Have you considered how many fans are alienated already by the BRAG movement? One of the lads I sit with on the BBE told me how one of the protesters was seen swearing in the face of a 50+ year old woman as she left a few matches ago, instead of her staying behind and protesting at an empty dugout. Not good. Not good at all.

The Times may well run an article next week. Good on them. The piece written in the Indian FT would probably have more impact. However, as pointed out by many, we're dealing with people who are basically dictators, their way or nothing. They ignored the Indian Press, they'll ignore the English Press. Their main business and their methods are very controversial, they don't care. They turn a blind eye to criticism for a living - I.e. For something they actually care about - chickens.

The big news this week was an idea (I take absolutely nothing away from Dan, he's trying at least, superb amount of effort) that has very little chance of succeeding for many reasons already stated in that thread but mainly, and this is the killer, unless someone can confirm otherwise, they have shown any inclination whatsoever that they want to sell.

This post is very critical. I know that. I do applaud everyone who is trying to do something. I do hope BRAG, the FF, other websites, Ewood Blues maybe? Anyone or group, who can get together and come up with a plan that unites the fans - that might give us a chance, somehow.

Cause at the moment the scumbags are winning. Walking it even. And half our fans wont be back next year, regardless of which division we'll be in. And no I don't have any answers either. Maybe we should go to the PL or the FA. Maybe with Gordon Taylor, Jack Straw, Tony Parkes?. Tom Finn maybe? Someone out there must be prepared to stick their neck out for this club and make the Authorities listen?

[Ste B]

I'm bored now. Sorry.

So we protest to the owners who don't attend or listen or speak. Smashing. We get slaughtered in the Press for this with the exception of the LT.

The fans are divided as well. This is a huge OG. The protests need buy in. It's not there. Why? 99% of Rovers fans are immensely ###### off. Why are the BRAG failing to gain support? It's not apathy. It's not that no one cares. It's the fact that no one likes to be told what to do. The protests must gain empathy; speak to people and try and work out why they're not walking round in yellow and black?(obvious really, "not our bloody colours, I didn't wear any bloody colours int' enclosure when we got shut of Saxton you daft buggers")

I'd wager that not many BRFC fans over 45 go on Facebook, if they do then I'd suggest they're not impressed. Have you considered how many fans are alienated already by the BRAG movement? One of the lads I sit with on the BBE told me how one of the protesters was seen swearing in the face of a 50+ year old woman as she left a few matches ago, instead of her staying behind and protesting at an empty dugout. Not good. Not good at all.

The Times may well run an article next week. Good on them. The piece written in the Indian FT would probably have more impact. However, as pointed out by many, we're dealing with people who are basically dictators, their way or nothing. They ignored the Indian Press, they'll ignore the English Press. Their main business and their methods are very controversial, they don't care. They turn a blind eye to criticism for a living - I.e. For something they actually care about - chickens.

The big news this week was an idea (I take absolutely nothing away from Dan, he's trying at least, superb amount of effort) that has very little chance of succeeding for many reasons already stated in that thread but mainly, and this is the killer, unless someone can confirm otherwise, they have shown any inclination whatsoever that they want to sell.

This post is very critical. I know that. I do applaud everyone who is trying to do something. I do hope BRAG, the FF, other websites, Ewood Blues maybe? Anyone or group, who can get together and come up with a plan that unites the fans - that might give us a chance, somehow.

Cause at the moment the scumbags are winning. Walking it even. And half our fans wont be back next year, regardless of which division we'll be in. And no I don't have any answers either. Maybe we should go to the PL or the FA. Maybe with Gordon Taylor, Jack Straw, Tony Parkes?. Tom Finn maybe? Someone out there must be prepared to stick their neck out for this club and make the Authorities listen?

Ste, I hate you. Stop putting stuff so well.

[Miker]

The FF deals with non-football related matters no one wants to deal with. I feel people are criticising them just for the sake of it because I can't believe any of the critics being in the least bit interested spending their spare time discussing "pies and leaky roofs". The only reason they've come into the spotlight and getting this reaction from other fans is because the owners decided to give them a free trip to India.

Suddenly now everyone wants to know how to get into the Fans Forum and asking questions about their involvement and their voting policies etc.

If people were that interested, why didn't they ask these questions years ago?

[Silittl]

The FF deals with non-football related matters no one wants to deal with. I feel people are criticising them just for the sake of it because I can't believe any of the critics being in the least bit interested spending their spare time discussing "pies and leaky roofs". The only reason they've come into the spotlight and getting this reaction from other fans is because the owners decided to give them a free trip to India.

Suddenly now everyone wants to know how to get into the Fans Forum and asking questions about their involvement and their voting policies etc.

If people were that interested, why didn't they ask these questions years ago?

I see your point and agree to a certain extent. However I feel it's because up until they went to Pune what did they do to let fans know they existed unless you knew of there existence. I attach no blame to the FF for this I just think its time for change. Which some within the FF seem to resist.

BRAG is not the the whole answer but can play a big part. I just hope it continues with the transparency it has started with. Though it won't be for everyone.

I also think there are personality clashes as well which don't help.

[deftangel]

We are simple football supporters and word was spread the best we could with the limited resources we have,

You still have not explained this alternative approach, whilst the action you speak about above are all action group initiatives yet we are the ones taking the flack

What all of them? That's a bit of a stretch.

I can see a fair bit of flack going back the other way at the Fans Forum as well.

I will hazard a guess at their "alternative approach", it is probably to distance themselves from official protests (and unofficial ones, as a matter of course) with a view to attempting to re-establish dialogue with the owners. Perhaps because they don't believe protests are currently the best way of achieving that and/or in the long term interests of BRFC at least in in their current form. You are of course perfectly entitled to disagree and do your own thing, as are the FF. You've made your disagreement with them very clear but I don't see what harping on about them on here is achieving.

Having read the minutes of the open meeting there was a clear sense that all groups wanted to back the proposed supporters trust, the make up of which will be transparent and contain representatives of both camps and hopefully a whole lot more. I for one would prefer the "my group have done this, this group haven't achieved anything" dick-waving to be knocked on the head and that the parties sit down and just get it done, yesterday, as a matter of the highest priority. Far more important than another protest or another meeting with powerless bods at the club who can't seem to do anything but listen at present.

And whilst we're at it, I don't see what the genesis of the protests has to do with anything. When they started, almost none of us thought we would still be here today talking about subsequent ones. The craic 5 months ago was vastly different and opinions change with time and circumstances, as have the nature of the protests over that course of time (not enough in my view as I've said). What the opinions of select members of a messageboard of thousands of users who post here as individuals, not as representatives of any group has to do with anything I don't know. It's frankly bloody irrelevant.

[Ste B]

What all of them? That's a bit of a stretch.

I can see a fair bit of flack going back the other way at the Fans Forum as well.

I will hazard a guess at their "alternative approach", it is probably to distance themselves from official protests (and unofficial ones, as a matter of course) with a view to attempting to re-establish dialogue with the owners. Perhaps because they don't believe protests are currently the best way of achieving that and/or in the long term interests of BRFC at least in in their current form. You are of course perfectly entitled to disagree and do your own thing, as are the FF. You've made your disagreement with them very clear but I don't see what harping on about them on here is achieving.

Having read the minutes of the open meeting there was a clear sense that all groups wanted to back the proposed supporters trust, the make up of which will be transparent and contain representatives of both camps and hopefully a whole lot more. I for one would prefer the "my group have done this, this group haven't achieved anything" dick-waving to be knocked on the head and that the parties sit down and just get it done, yesterday, as a matter of the highest priority. Far more important than another protest or another meeting with powerless bods at the club who can't seem to do anything but listen at present.

ed

And whilst we're at it, I don't see what the genesis of the protests has to do with anything. When they started, almost none of us thought we would still be here today talking about subsequent ones. The craic 5 months ago was vastly different and opinions change with time and circumstances, as have the nature of the protests over that course of time (not enough in my view as I've said). What the opinions of select members of a messageboard of thousands of users has to do with anything I don't know. It's frankly bloody irrelevant.

The BRST IMHO has to start as a neutral group and invite membership from all Rovers fans. Their policies will then become dictated by its members. It cannot be seen as just being an offshoot of any one of the groups knocking around. This isnt likely to be a short term thing tho, which is an issue it appears.

The open meeting we kind of agreed that ALL groups should arrange to send representatives (FF, BRAG, ALL Websites) + extend to likes of Ewood Blues and also meet the challenge of finding the unprepresented majority. I still think that could be done, and after agreeing with SL earlier have sent a PM. BRAG and the FF take the brunt of criticism because we've all put ourselves in the public spotlight.

[glen9mullan]

The BRST IMHO has to start as a neutral group and invite membership from all Rovers fans. Their policies will then become dictated by its members. It cannot be seen as just being an offshoot of any one of the groups knocking around. This isnt likely to be a short term thing tho, which is an issue it appears.

The open meeting we kind of agreed that ALL groups should arrange to send representatives (FF, BRAG, ALL Websites) + extend to likes of Ewood Blues and also meet the challenge of finding the unprepresented majority. I still think that could be done, and after agreeing with SL earlier have sent a PM. BRAG and the FF take the brunt of criticism because we've all put ourselves in the public spotlight.

Good post , pretty much sums things up

[Ste B]

However I feel it's because up until they went to Pune what did they do to let fans know they existed unless you knew of there existence.

Nobody gave a damn, we were winning games. We got the minutes on the website, but did anybody read them ? Did we do enough else to promote things either ? Maybe not, but its the same issue BRAG are getting in reaching many fans in getting out the message to the majority.