[Archived] Supporters Trust do we really trust them?

[Tom]

It' an interim committee until it can be officially launched and then a full committee will be formed (from what I can gather I have no involvement in this)

I think this topic is a bad idea as it looks like one group trying to smear 2 others, also if everything was 100% open and transparent the meeting with the FF and Balaji in Pune would have been minuted but so would all the meetings that have taken place between members of the BRAG and Paul Hunt and co, which no doubt there have been many.

I also think its unfair to attach blame to the FF here because members of the FF are attending a meeting, it has nothing to do with the FF as a body as far as I can see.

[Silittl]

I agree Fernhurst, I just can't see the point of this thread, it just looks like more unecessary mud slinging and attempt to discredit BRST on the basis of a confidential e-mail where it isn't apparent exactly what BRST have done wrong.

No mud slinging here only letting people know the truth! The trust should be democratically elected body from the start.

[Majiball]

I thought half term was last week????

[Devon Rover]

I'm still really struggling to understand why the different groups are acting in this way towards one another. I posted a while back that it was a bit embarrassing and it is getting increasingly uncomfortable to read.

If the groups cannot/will not join together under one common aim then its time for them all to stop talking about one another and focus on their own thing.

I appreciate that each group thinks its going about things the right way and for the right reasons but you are all at risk of looking petty and ineffectual- as I think most have to date. Its a shambles and bodes very very poorly for any attempt to save the club through a supporters' takeover. It makes me regret thinking a fan-led takeover might be better than a purchase by someone unconnected to the club.

[AndyNeil]

No mud slinging here only letting people know the truth! The trust should be democratically elected body from the start.

The point is Simon, the BRST hasn't "started" yet as it isn't registered with Supporters Direct.

[he6rt6gr6m]

I also think its unfair to attach blame to the FF here because members of the FF are attending a meeting, it has nothing to do with the FF as a body as far as I can see.

I completely agree with that, Tom. Well said. The Fans Forum do an excellent job, and this is just mindless mud-slinging! Why someone would be so malicious to TWO groups is beyond me.

We're doing all we can to speed this along, but sadly, we're in a global recession, where money's tight. Supporters Direct didn't even know if they would exist during the processing of BRST, due to Government cuts, which further halted our application.

It's not as simple as thinking up a really catchy name, setting up a website and electing people, then posting everything on a social network Simon. This is a LEGITIMATELY RECOGNISED organisation being set up here. Not a group. It takes time! And during that time, we've been in constant dialogue with each other. And if that's a crime, well...

[cmb211087]

Well this thread has proven to me a lot of things regarding the leadership of BRAG.

I don't get why they are trying to make a problem out of this? As it is part funded by Government funding, but BRST cannot hold open elections until they become a fully legal trust. This isn't some game that a person has thought up in a treehouse, and picking their mates to be the leaders.

This has been pointed out time and time again on this thread yet BRAG members are having none of it, and really making a good job of getting a lot of potential libal cases on their backs, as this, and the press release today, are full of fiction aimed to chuck mud at groups that they don't like.

[Tom]

No mud slinging here only letting people know the truth! The trust should be democratically elected body from the start.

It will be once it is in existence though.

In fairness before BRAG had a committe elected (by other members of BRAG not the entire fanbase mind) there were some people making decisions and telling others what they could and couldn't do without being elected, remember the post on facebook Mark typed out from Glen saying anyone in another facebook group would be removed from the BRAG one and no longer welcome at protests? As is often said about BRAG things take time to get established etc and BRST are still going through that due to red tape.

From what I can see here BRST emailed BRAG for their involvement which seems fair enough to do so and what was talked about at the fans open meeting.

I don't think it to be the case but sadly at times it looks like BRAG don't want any other groups on the scene and maybe vice versa at times.

[cn174]

No mud slinging here only letting people know the truth! The trust should be democratically elected body from the start.

How can people be democratically elected to something before it exists?!

When brisa was set up there was a few of us who got it initially up and running, then everyone had an opportunity to put their names forward if they wanted a position, and then there was a vote. Some people in the initial group carried on, some didn't, but without them brisa wouldn't have existed at all.

I'm not involved in any of the groups (and frankly I'm confused as to who is who!) but your post just seems to be there to cause trouble. There's been some criticism of the brag protest press release today, so it seems you feel the need to fight back.

[Parsonblue]

The title of this thread asks the question "do we really trust them?" After reading the various threads about the FF, BRSIT, BRAG and the rest the answer I have reached is quite simple. No I don't trust BRAG anymore than I trust Venky's. The infighting that BRAG have engaged in has convinced me that giving £1,000 to BRSIT would be a huge mistake. Venky's have been a disaster thus far but I honestly don't believe that, having read the various outpourings of BRAG, which has linked itself to BRSIT so closely, that Mr. Wild's grouping would be any major improvement. There are too many egos at work and far too much infighting. Heaven only knows what would happen if these supporters actually got hold of the club. Would anything actually get done amidst the accusations and counter accusations? Surely it wouldn't be long before an action group was set up to protest against BRAG - would that be BRAG against BRAG? I think I'll simply confine myself to going to all the matches and supporting the team. I know that's not particularly fashionable but it's what I've done for the past half century so why stop now?

[Silittl]

I'm still really struggling to understand why the different groups are acting in this way towards one another. I posted a while back that it was a bit embarrassing and it is getting increasingly uncomfortable to read.

If the groups cannot/will not join together under one common aim then its time for them all to stop talking about one another and focus on their own thing.

I appreciate that each group thinks its going about things the right way and for the right reasons but you are all at risk of looking petty and ineffectual- as I think most have to date. Its a shambles and bodes very very poorly for any attempt to save the club through a supporters' takeover. It makes me regret thinking a fan-led takeover might be better than a purchase by someone unconnected to the club.

Sums things up nicely. I know what ive posted is part of the issue. However my point in all this has been proven. It is ok for other groups or forums to be secretive or underneath. However when you expose them they quickly try to defend themselves.

However when BRAG do anything they can slate us all they want. Feel free to remove the whole post admin if you feel it will ruin the BRST process.

[Tom]

I think I'll simply confine myself to going to all the matches and supporting the team. I know that's not particularly fashionable but it's what I've done for the past half century so why stop now?

I think that's quite a good approach that a lot may take to avoid all this politics and back biting that is going on. Part of the reason I decided to leave the FF actually.

Now only if I could avoid the internet!

[Silittl]

I completely agree with that, Tom. Well said. The Fans Forum do an excellent job, and this is just mindless mud-slinging! Why someone would be so malicious to TWO groups is beyond me.

We're doing all we can to speed this along, but sadly, we're in a global recession, where money's tight. Supporters Direct didn't even know if they would exist during the processing of BRST, due to Government cuts, which further halted our application.

It's not as simple as thinking up a really catchy name, setting up a website and electing people, then posting everything on a social network Simon. This is a LEGITIMATELY RECOGNISED organisation being set up here. Not a group. It takes time! And during that time, we've been in constant dialogue with each other. And if that's a crime, well...

So why have others who have expressed an interest not been contacted about the meeting or involved in other meeting to decide what is going on.

[cmb211087]

Sums things up nicely. I know what ive posted is part of the issue. However my point in all this has been proven. It is ok for other groups or forums to be secretive or underneath. However when you expose them they quickly try to defend themselves.

However when BRAG do anything they can slate us all they want. Feel free to remove the whole post admin if you feel it will ruin the BRST process.

You have not exposed a damn thing though. But keep telling yourself what they are doing is somehow untrustworthy, despite being a legal requirement. Only showing yourself up here by digging the hole bigger.

[Ste B]

I'm still really struggling to understand why the different groups are acting in this way towards one another. I posted a while back that it was a bit embarrassing and it is getting increasingly uncomfortable to read.

If the groups cannot/will not join together under one common aim then its time for them all to stop talking about one another and focus on their own thing.

I appreciate that each group thinks its going about things the right way and for the right reasons but you are all at risk of looking petty and ineffectual- as I think most have to date. Its a shambles and bodes very very poorly for any attempt to save the club through a supporters' takeover. It makes me regret thinking a fan-led takeover might be better than a purchase by someone unconnected to the club.

I appreciate that BRAG are getting questioned as to their motives, as are the BRSIT and its a symptom of the problems at the club that everybody is at each other. Its almost like they feel the need to go on the offensive to show how much they care.

I'm a bit disappointed, as I was (at the request of a BRAG committee member) in the middle of facilitating a meeting between members of the group before this blew up. However I'm not sure I want to send any private messages to sort this now as its quite obvious that some people will share those contents to all and sundry.

[glen9mullan]

Was not gonna post on here at all, but don't think people are being completely fair. For weeks people have been throwing mud at the action group, in particular today.

my name gets mentioned on a daily basis, surely thats slander and libel?? My personal life like where I work is posted without removal, can someone explain this?

The people who are part of the mud slinging including Fernhurst rover, He6rtgr6m, are the very people who are representing the BRST and the FF, so if they are distancing themselves from those organisations for the sake of posting , then simon can do the same from the action groups point of view.

Every day, its attack after attack on the Action group, but when people bite back its those who bite back who are slated.

Wayne Wilds idea : Lets get this straight is nothing to do with WEC, He is leading this and everyone can be involved, as a group the Action group have offered their full support, as have the BRST and other groups, Just like we would should other options develop later down the line. If this is a crime for offering support then its a sad state of affairs.

I was contacted by a prominent member of the BRST, earlier this week and invited to stand for their interim committee, I declined this offer at this moment in time, as I did not feel a secret meeting to put an interim committee in place was something I wished to be involved in, despite me having good a good friendship with Duncun who is also BRST. Interim committee's tend to become permanent committee's. I was also concerned that certain individuals who have from day one slated the acton group and protest were also involved.

I sincerely wish the BRST works, but for that to work, I do think Simon and I have a valid point, especially when are constantly badgered about our groups movements.

Its fair to say, ALL supporters want the best for rovers, but its also fair to say people have different views on how that should, and can be achieved. Working together is still the most favourable option, but that takes so pride swallowing from all parties.

I know Simon has been trying to fix a meeting with the FF, and is still in discussions with Ste B, who to his credit is trying to engage as a supporter to another supporter, and his conduct and no pre-judge views have been a breath of fresh air.

Tom has also had some great constructive discussions and its sad that he has left the fans forum but that of course is his choice.

There is no conspirocy to be had, I support rovers, as does the rest of the action group, we all want rovers to stay up and grow as a club.

I work at WEC where one of the group directors happens to be Wayne Wild who is another passionate supporter who wants our club to be ok.

The FF are all rovers supporters and have a different approach, thats there right and thats their path,

The BRST is a new organisation which aint off the ground yet, and it will take lots of hard work for this to happen, and transparency is key from the off, but its something most have been calling for , for a while.

This should never be about an individual or a group, it should always be about Blackburn rovers and the clubs future.

We may not always agree, but personal insults and slander need to stop, If people left one another alone then things would not spiral into a stupid cycle of non productive chat.

Venkys must be loving all this, everyday we all fall out, venksy become even more unremovable. If they start spending then thats great, but to date this has not been forthcoming. If things continue amongst supporters then the fight to have supporters concerns dealt with is already dead.

I think people would find if they left each supporter group to take their own path, then the chances of supporters uniting behind one cause would grow,

Cue the abuse

[Exiled in Toronto]

No abuse, but you, as the most visible figurehead of BRAG, didn't think that having Wayne Wild as one of your bosses was worth mentioning when BRAG decided to very publicly throw its weight behind WW's initiative?

[glen9mullan]

No abuse, but you, as the most visible figurehead of BRAG, didn't think that having Wayne Wild as one of your bosses was worth mentioning when BRAG decided to very publicly throw its weight behind WW's initiative?

My private life is exactly that, i dont ask anyone on here where they work?

As this has nothing to do with WEC, I dont think Wayne Wild offering every rovers supporter on the planet the opportunity to be part of a supporter takeover is such a bad thing and I support this as a supporter not an employee,

Just like when the BRST started all those months ago it was Wayne who through his weight behind it to give them the helping hand they needed with SD,

Protest came long before WEC got annoyed with Venkys, This idea, was originally thought up in Sweden, and Daniel did what he should and brought it to peoples attention, fortunately someone has taken notice of it and is trying to see if it can work

[shivery85]

People seriouse need to stop this ######, yeah there's 3 groups but who do we all support at end of day???

We need to stand as one simple as, people go to work every day and work with folk they don't like, it's time everything got put to one side and we all fight for this club as one,1

I suggest all 3 groups have a meeting together open to everyone to chat about things,

We need to stop takeing the soft approach to venky's and kean, they will both be looking at these forums laughing there cocks off reading all this!!!

We all agree to disagree,

Come on blues for Christ sake get a grip!!!

[AndyNeil]

For the sake of clarification, I offered to help the BRST as me and not a member the FF so to say the BRST and FF are having secret meetings is somewhat stretching the truth, wouldn't you say?

[Tom]

Venkys must be loving all this, everyday we all fall out, venksy become even more unremovable. If they start spending then thats great, but to date this has not been forthcoming. If things continue amongst supporters then the fight to have supporters concerns dealt with is already dead.

This cannot be stressed enough, more and more, day on day this becomes less about Rovers fans against Venkys and more about fans v fans.

I don't have a solution to this, I know Glen / Simon and co are willing to talk to anyone about it and try to bring folk together, I have spoken to Glen a good few times at length and we both had the same concerns, the same concerns that 99% of our fanbase have. What we need is to find a way to go forward and together on this somehow.

This isn't about the FF, BRST and BRAG its about all supporters, and maybe more to the point here our internet active supporters as that seems to be where the fallout is occurring.

I know we can have open meetings till the cows come home but maybe one more is needed, not hosted by BRAG or any group but by a neutral party with a chairman and lets try and thrash something out here.

[he6rt6gr6m]

Absolutely no mention of confidential emails there being redistributed on public forums there Glen. This is a very serious matter.

[Biddy]

God i am just really sick of it all and wish we we back in the days of not having 4,000 supporters groups all claiming to have the best interests of the club at heart.

I don't want to have to spend £1000 to make sure I am deemed nobel enough and worthy of supporting the club I love. I don't want all the bickering, back stabbing, the ITK's, the "we're better supporters than you" brigade.

All that is happening is that all the individual groups with all their random acronymns are splinterring the fan base apart. I can't even remember which group is which, what they stand for and who supports who.

The whole situation is just becomming a farce.

[SouthAussieRover]

God i am just really sick of it all and wish we we back in the days of not having 4,000 supporters groups all claiming to have the best interests of the club at heart.

I don't want to have to spend £1000 to make sure I am deemed nobel enough and worthy of supporting the club I love. I don't want all the bickering, back stabbing, the ITK's, the "we're better supporters than you" brigade.

All that is happening is that all the individual groups with all their random acronymns are splinterring the fan base apart. I can't even remember which group is which, what they stand for and who supports who.

The whole situation is just becomming a farce.

Amen.

[PAFELL]

Oh dear! Pafell just giving his opinion and asking a question and not committing a slur against anyone--again!

Right or wrong. I have given an example of the damage that has been done. Anybody, supporter, lawyer etc etc could ask that question because of what has been going on recently. Which was why I said this is NOT an allegation - but a question.

Read other posts on this subject.

Others have asked why are there attempts to damage the FF or the BRST etc - why even do anything that could remotely discredit them, if BRAG are interested in unity etc.

I am opposed to BRAG - mainly because the way they have gone about things. For the club to be owned by supporters, if POSSIBLE is a fantastic idea. It is the money issue that is the main concern. But when you read this site - can you imagine a meeting with everybody on here as a shareholder at the moment. Forget Ok coral, it will be shoot out in the Blackburn Rovers board room.

BRAG keep shooting themselves, they are damaging what Wayne Wild is trying to do - not me or others.