[Archived] Supporters Trust do we really trust them?

[47er]

Venkys have lawyers. The club has lawyers - There are always lawyers involved with people who have large businesses. Even they are not, they can afford to bring them in.

What if they want to keep hold of the club no matter the cost or the league the club is in.

What if they said people were trying to undermine them - force them to sell.

They could point to the link - however minor - with Glen and Wayne Wild.

If they wanted too.

Point to the link as a sign of what? :P

[PAFELL]

Completely different scale of a scenarios.

Wayne Wild does not own WEC, He is an employee of WEC, Glen is also an employee of WEC.

In your opinion should any employee of WEC be excluded from buying a share because he is employed by the same company as Mr Wild?

I am not a lawyer. But I think the term pejudical interest, comes to mind.

[mark1875]

I am not a lawyer. But I think the term pejudical interest, comes to mind.

Because he is employed by the same company as one of many people involved in this initiative?

[darrenrover]

The title of this thread asks the question "do we really trust them?" After reading the various threads about the FF, BRSIT, BRAG and the rest the answer I have reached is quite simple. No I don't trust BRAG anymore than I trust Venky's. The infighting that BRAG have engaged in has convinced me that giving £1,000 to BRSIT would be a huge mistake. Venky's have been a disaster thus far but I honestly don't believe that, having read the various outpourings of BRAG, which has linked itself to BRSIT so closely, that Mr. Wild's grouping would be any major improvement. There are too many egos at work and far too much infighting. Heaven only knows what would happen if these supporters actually got hold of the club. Would anything actually get done amidst the accusations and counter accusations? Surely it wouldn't be long before an action group was set up to protest against BRAG - would that be BRAG against BRAG? I think I'll simply confine myself to going to all the matches and supporting the team. I know that's not particularly fashionable but it's what I've done for the past half century so why stop now?

I'm totally with you Parson and despite all that has transpired, all this is making us a laughing stock, if we weren't one already!

As of 4pm today we'd sold 477 tickets for Man City on Saturday. Enough said I think......!

[bestierover]

Appalling thread. Playground stuff.

Constructive dialogue required.

Employee/employer relationship may become relevant upon buyout, not before, should employer hold a controlling interest.

Please stop all this infighting. Please.

[thenodrog]

God i am just really sick of it all and wish we we back in the days of not having 4,000 supporters groups all claiming to have the best interests of the club at heart.

I don't want to have to spend £1000 to make sure I am deemed nobel enough and worthy of supporting the club I love. I don't want all the bickering, back stabbing, the ITK's, the "we're better supporters than you" brigade.

All that is happening is that all the individual groups with all their random acronymns are splinterring the fan base apart. I can't even remember which group is which, what they stand for and who supports who.

The whole situation is just becomming a farce.

Correct Biddy. This power struggle is unedifying and is doomed to failure unless a mega rich individual can be roped in as the Premier League is a billionaires playground these days and is no place for keen amateurs. God loves a tryer but all this committee and that committee currently jostling for position should be applying their talents to a non league team. Unless there are some aces in the deck that none of us know about Premier League ownership is way over their heads and will engulf them.

btw Biddy I'll not mention the spelling mistake... even though it's a prize one.

[BuckyRover]

Farcical.

[Miller11]

Think I had better respond here...

I've been at work all evening, and come back to a bit of stick on facebook, not really knowing what it's all about.

A bit of background:

I first made contact with Supporters Direct almost 2 years ago with a view to getting a Supporters' Trust off the ground.

I wasn't a user of this site, and at the time, contacted a few people whom I thought might want to get involved with its inception. The first meeting involved myself and four others, including Dan Clough and Wayne Wild.

We went into it fairly blind, with the only aim being to do something positive for the club. After initial contact with the club, things were looking promising, then the takeover happened. We also had a meeting with Supporters Direct around that time, which brought us back down to earth a bit - we became aware of just how much work it entailed to get things off the ground.

We geared towards a public meeting in May of lat year, which we advertised via leaflet distribution, on local radio, and heavily in the Lancashire Telegraph, as well as online. Approximately 40 people attended, and voted unanimously that a trust should be formed. After speeches from SD representatives, Newcastle United Supporters Trust, and myself.

We then hit a bit of a problem, due in part to SD funding issues, so the process has taken longer than expected.

We are indeed having a meeting this Wednesday, we need an interim committee in place. This will be made up primarily of the people who were involved in those early stages, and others who have become involved as the project has evolved (indeed, some people fell by the wayside). I hope people can understand it is impossible to open it up to everyone at this moment in time - things would move even slower!

The aim has always been (due to our desire and the way we are bound by our constitution) to start things off with an interim committee, then hold elections, which would be open to all members.

I really wish we could have moved things along faster, and I have invited some individuals who have shown an interest to become involved during this formative stage. Some of those have posted on this thread, and I really didn't see their being involved in other groups as an issue. I think we have identified areas we need help, and have tried to source this. I'm very keen to take on a role which involves far less organising than I'm doing currently, for example. We just want people who can help get this going, hence why Glen was invited. It was by no means meant to be cloak and dagger, secretive or exclusive. We haven't publicised the meeting as, in al honesty, there didn't seem much need.

The last thing I want is bickering and infighting between fans - I'm really surprised and slightly disappointed this is where we are at. Makes you wonder if its worth the hassle. I hope we can put this down as a misunderstanding, and people can concentrate their efforts much more constructively.

I certainly don't want the action group to feel we are working against them - we might go about things a totally different way, but we all want what is best for the club. I have spoken to Glen Mullan this evening and suggested a BRAG representative comes to the meeting we are having on Wednesday, which they can report back to the group. We've got nothing to hide, but it may be pretty boring!

Apologies if the above is incoherent... I'm knackered!

Duncan

[Mattyblue]

As far as I'm concerned all groups have acted disgracefully and I would urge the masses to stay away and keep their own counsel, essentially its just a bunch of people on ego trips using Rovers as a vehicle to feed the habit.

You are an embarrassment to Rovers.

An apt name!

A year ago we had just the FF plugging away on getting the lager sorted, now we have at last count 4 groups?

It's like watching 4 bald blokes fight over a comb. I doubt the vast majority of the fanbase have the foggiest idea who you all are.

Why don't you all just join together to form one united organisation? Or will too many folk lose their fancy titles?

[arbitro]

An apt name!

A year ago we had just the FF plugging away on getting the lager sorted, now we have at last count 4 groups?

It's like watching 4 bald blokes fight over a comb. I doubt the vast majority of the fanbase have the foggiest idea who you all are.

Why don't you all just join together to form one united organisation? Or will too many folk lose their fancy titles?

Bang on the money for me. The fundamental problem as I see it is that there are too many self styled ego's and people with pretensions way above their pay grades. A lot of this has been fed by five minutes of fame on marches and brief interviews with the media. FFS why can't they all get together for the greater good of Blackburn Rovers, not each other. I really believe that there will be far more support from the masses if there was one voice to listen to rather than the confusing mess there is now.

In all honesty the bickering has become tedious.

[mhead]

Always the same: "Those that do,and those that Complain"

In any movement to begin with there will be a number of Groups...live with it.

But BRSIT is serious stuff,and we need to support and appreciate them.

This is the kind of thread that has reduced the power and influence of BRFCS.

[deftangel]

Frankly. characterizing the subject of this thread as a "secret" meeting is disgraceful. It is quite clear to anyone with a shred of intelligence what is going on. Moreover, if there were any concerns (which for anybody who can read English, there shouldn't be) what's the best way to deal with it do we think?

1) Contact the person sending the e-mail and see what the craic is? Test your understanding. In this what you think it is?

2) Run to the nearest forum and start a thread about a "secret meeting"

*Especially* with all this ridiculous dick-waving that's been going on, one might stop and think twice about doing anything that might be considered inflammatory. You know, because we've all been paying lip service to uniting for the good of the club.

Lip service is what it is in some quarters unfortunately.

[shivery85]

This cannot be stressed enough, more and more, day on day this becomes less about Rovers fans against Venkys and more about fans v fans.

I don't have a solution to this, I know Glen / Simon and co are willing to talk to anyone about it and try to bring folk together, I have spoken to Glen a good few times at length and we both had the same concerns, the same concerns that 99% of our fanbase have. What we need is to find a way to go forward and together on this somehow.

This isn't about the FF, BRST and BRAG its about all supporters, and maybe more to the point here our internet active supporters as that seems to be where the fallout is occurring.

I know we can have open meetings till the cows come home but maybe one more is needed, not hosted by BRAG or any group but by a neutral party with a chairman and lets try and thrash something out here.

Tom the thing is I seriousely think some rovers fans have way to much jealously in them, it's an absorlute laughing stock, the way people argue on here like school kids!

As glen said before we are all here for one thing and that's to sort rovers out and get club back!!!

As for Wayne at WEC, people are absorlutely stupid,

The fans have an option now as to we're the club go and can be taken forward but yet childish idiots still don't want to do anything and throw accusations at people, they seriousely need to grow up,

Venky's looking at this, rovers staff looking at this,

Kean's special agent force 5, they will be cocking there sides laughing and no wonder no one gets any sort of replays back from idiots!!

There is a solution to the idiots tho, JUST BAN THEM, it's simple!!! Cause reading a lot of the forums ect it's the same 6 people winding folk up and stalking the fire every single hour!!!

[Stuart]

Can this thread be locked for posting for anyone but FF and BRAG members?

Let them each make their case and have it out and come to some kind of agreement about how to move forward.

Sadly my guess us that this thread would go very quiet indeed.

Having said that, here's my take:

What I've noticed is that, in the main, there are certain groups posting;

BRAG

FF

Anti-BRAG

"Neutral"

This means that only BRAG member posters are defending BRAG so it's no great surprise that they appear a defensive group!

What BRAG do need to do us take stock and ask themselves why there are so few non-BRAG-members who are visibly pro-BRAG?

Despite the transparency, a lot would probably say "lack of transparency". Yet if anything, they are probably the group with most visibility - including a dedicated website (unless I want to read how hot, or not, the pies are) yet are still not trusted.

People are looking to find ways to discredit BRAG, that much is obvious, but it doesn't help if they find out things like the BRSIT lead has a dominant working relationship over the BRAG/protest lead. Such conflicts of interest give people a chance to cry foul - even if there is nothing untoward going on. "Perception is reality" is a phrase you'd do well to take to BRAG's heart.

You don't like it and you are not politicians but make no mistake you are in a political environment so there are certain 'rules' you have to work to. I keep saying it but diplomacy is absolutely key. Keep your eye on the group's aims and DO NOT allow emotion to ever again let you make a mistake like you've done with the opening post.

You will get criticism, you will get stick, you can't please everyone. It's the nature of the beast and you've bought a ticket for the ride. So strap yourself back in and start re-building bridges - EVEN IF you don't think YOU should have to.

Google "Mother Theresa Do It Anyway" and see if there's anything that strikes a chord.

That's my two-penneth for what it's worth.

[Parsonblue]

There is a solution to the idiots tho, JUST BAN THEM, it's simple!!! Cause reading a lot of the forums ect it's the same 6 people winding folk up and stalking the fire every single hour!!!

So what you are implying is that it's a case of "our way or the highway". Is it any wonder that many people, myself included, refuse to take the BRSIT proposals seriously when they seem so strongly supported by BRAG? With all due respect 'shivery85' people are allowed to have differing opinions. I don't support the methods employed by BRAG at the moment and I believe that the BRSIT proposals are deeply flawed. Indeed, I suspect that it would need far greater detail about how BRSIT would fund the club long term before many people were prepared to hand over £1,000 to them. If the club was going to be run by committee then I certainly wouldn't hand money over under any circumstances. Does that mean I should be banned?

[Stuart]

To save people time, this is the quote that Mother Theresa adopted/adapted:

The Paradoxical Commandments

by Dr. Kent M. Keith

People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered.

Love them anyway.

If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.

Do good anyway.

If you are successful, you win false friends and true enemies.

Succeed anyway.

The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow.

Do good anyway.

Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.

Be honest and frank anyway.

The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds.

Think big anyway.

People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs.

Fight for a few underdogs anyway.

What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.

Build anyway.

People really need help but may attack you if you do help them.

Help people anyway.

Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth.

Give the world your best anyway.

[Ste B]

Can this thread be locked for posting for anyone but FF and BRAG members?

Let them each make their case and have it out and come to some kind of agreement about how to move forward.

Sadly my guess us that this thread would go very quiet indeed.

Thats exactly what we had done until this thread was posted !

You have a point in that somebody will write a critical post on BRAG / BRSIT. Somebody will jump to BRAGS defence, and then another group will be dragged into it. You can pretty much guarantee which posters will be involved as well. The vast majority are not involved in any of the groups.

Fact is though, nobodys actually broken any posting guidelines here - so bans and removing the threads are out of the question. It doesn't look good admittedly, but if we did remove stuff we'd end up in the "censorship" debate. (that said, I really dont feel comfortable with anybody posting confidential emails on here without permission)

[nellybc]

I was contacted by a prominent member of the BRST, earlier this week and invited to stand for their interim committee, I declined this offer at this moment in time, as I did not feel a secret meeting to put an interim committee in place was something I wished to be involved in, despite me having good a good friendship with Duncun who is also BRST. Interim committee's tend to become permanent committee's.

I was also concerned that certain individuals who have from day one slated the acton group and protest were also involved.

The interim commitee will only become a permanent committee if nobody else runs for the position. As far as i can see there is no issue at all. You need an interim committee to start the procedure and then vote democratically on the permanent committee. Is this not the case ??

That is going to happen in life, there are many people i work with whom i dislike but i get on with it. Just because somebody "slated the action group" you wont be involved with them? Pathetic.

I have protested frequently and until now was right behind the action group and i only want what's best for my club but this thread has really shown you up for everything you said you were not.

[Stuart]

Thats exactly what we had done until this thread was posted !

You have a point in that somebody will write a critical post on BRAG / BRSIT. Somebody will jump to BRAGS defence, and then another group will be dragged into it. You can pretty much guarantee which posters will be involved as well. The vast majority are not involved in any of the groups.

Fact is though, nobodys actually broken any posting guidelines here - so bans and removing the threads are out of the question. It doesn't look good admittedly, but if we did remove stuff we'd end up in the "censorship" debate. (that said, I really dont feel comfortable with anybody posting confidential emails on here without permission)

That wasn't my point Ste. It was about permissions on one thread for certain invited people only to post - not bans.

I suspect it's a moot question anyway due to software and site ethos anyway. Just frustrating that there's a lot of stirring going in from people (some of whom appear to have no intention or even desire to try to resolve).

[Ste B]

That wasn't my point Ste. It was about permissions on one thread for certain invited people only to post - not bans.

I suspect it's a moot question anyway due to software and site ethos anyway. Just frustrating that there's a lot of stirring going in from people (some of whom appear to have no intention or even desire to try to resolve).

It wasnt just a reply to yourself, it was also to a couple of the other points. Your right in that we cant limit posting on a thread to particular members.

[thenodrog]

It's like watching 4 bald blokes fight over a comb.

Quote of the year matty. I doff my cap.

I'm looking at all this BRIST/BRAG/FF in the context of the British Army in India. The first are like the Officers who are educated enough to sit out of the firing line and manipulate the footsoldiers to do their bidding, there are the footsoldiers who couldn't run the proverbial in a brewery but are always up and at em alternating between scrapping at close quarters and dodging bullets..... and then there is the Concert Party.

BRFC are about to experience the late 60's and 70's all over again. No one could do anything about it then and no one can do anything about it now. Let it drop and let it go. Despite the fact that as supporters we don't want to pay the going rate to watch Premier League football and are only willing to pay non league admission prices we have been punching way above our weight for so long that the supporters have ridiculously come to expect our position in the Prem as a right. The many who booed a 3-0 victory over Wolves are getting their just rewards. Won't be long before they will be back to supporting one or other of the Mancs will it? Those who have lived long enough have seen it all before.

[forumquizmaster]

The title of this thread asks the question "do we really trust them?" After reading the various threads about the FF, BRSIT, BRAG and the rest the answer I have reached is quite simple. No I don't trust BRAG anymore than I trust Venky's. The infighting that BRAG have engaged in has convinced me that giving £1,000 to BRSIT would be a huge mistake. Venky's have been a disaster thus far but I honestly don't believe that, having read the various outpourings of BRAG, which has linked itself to BRSIT so closely, that Mr. Wild's grouping would be any major improvement. There are too many egos at work and far too much infighting. Heaven only knows what would happen if these supporters actually got hold of the club. Would anything actually get done amidst the accusations and counter accusations? Surely it wouldn't be long before an action group was set up to protest against BRAG - would that be BRAG against BRAG? I think I'll simply confine myself to going to all the matches and supporting the team. I know that's not particularly fashionable but it's what I've done for the past half century so why stop now?

Bang on the money!

[alexanders]

I have lost the plot ages ago.

I have answered on a questionaire about chucking in some money and I am willing to do. However I feel that we are lacking a proper , detailed plan. All of this is confusing and seeing how it is today I would keep the money on my bank account instead.

[PAFELL]

An apt name!

A year ago we had just the FF plugging away on getting the lager sorted, now we have at last count 4 groups?

It's like watching 4 bald blokes fight over a comb. I doubt the vast majority of the fanbase have the foggiest idea who you all are.

Why don't you all just join together to form one united organisation? Or will too many folk lose their fancy titles?

It's like watching 4 bald blokes fight over a comb. Brilliant

[forumquizmaster]

Bang on the money for me. The fundamental problem as I see it is that there are too many self styled ego's and people with pretensions way above their pay grades. A lot of this has been fed by five minutes of fame on marches and brief interviews with the media. FFS why can't they all get together for the greater good of Blackburn Rovers, not each other. I really believe that there will be far more support from the masses if there was one voice to listen to rather than the confusing mess there is now.

In all honesty the bickering has become tedious.

Spot on Tony