[Archived] Financial problems?

[John]

They don't appear to like to respond to any form of correspondance - possibly need to take into account potential cultural difference in the way they deal with things.

[Mattyblue]

That's a cop out John.

They bought into a British business, they have to get to grips with Western business culture.

Hiding behind 'cultural differences' will cut no ice with banks and the rest of the shark infested waters of English football.

[Neil Weaver]

Indeed.

They could be very stubborn and just refuse to sell. They can't be forced to.

Not exactly good PR, but still. I used to think they'd sell if we went into the Championship, but I doubt they will now.

I think they'll sell up when it becomes impossible to run it without injecting their own money. By that stage, I guess the first team squad will consist of 16 juniors and god knows what will have become of the manager, coaching staff and admin staff. Kean will be running the ticket office. Maybe then he'd finally quit?

What really would Venky's have achieved by doing that? They're so bloody stubborn.

I'd go along with that Bryan.

What difference (in PR terms to them) is a Championship club to a League One or Two team? Like you, after all this I can't see em selling till they can't get any more brass out of the club.

[Fife Rover]

There were plenty of signs Steve. One simple question - if the owners really knew what was needed to be successful, why did they feel the need to tell everyone that they could get us into the Champions League with £5m/transfer window + loans? The best owners and the best managers are the realistic ones. It is possible to be realistic while at the same time optimistic. This lot were deluded from day one and it's been so obvious for a long time.

To most people Den.......Unfortunately not to all. Venkys are not the only deluded ones; there are a number of deluded people on here as well.

[yorkblue]

In my opinion, Venkys will keep hold of the club and sell anyone they can to remove the debt. Once they have reduced the running costs of the club to below the level of the parachute payments then thay will be making money. By reduction I mean to the level of League 1 or league 2 clubs where the total players wage bill is probably less than that of 1 decently paid premiership player. If they achieve this by the end of next season then they can look forward to 3 years of making money.

If we stay up this season I expect them to continue with this strategy next season. We will be relegated with less than 10 points and Venkys have 4 years of parachute payments to pocket.

This might be over-simplistic but could be possible.

[broadsword]

Sounds like a strategy to me, yorkblue.

Only problem I can see is that a lot of players have had relegation clauses removed from their contracts and bumper pay rises.

Trying to second guess these maniacs is like trying to nail jelly.

[Neil Weaver]

Only problem I can see is that a lot of players have had relegation clauses removed from their contracts and bumper pay rises.

Haven't some/most/all just gone though (Nelsen, Roberts, Salgado)? Yours sincerely, Conspiracies r us.

[True Blue & White]

Haven't some/most/all just gone though (Nelsen, Roberts, Salgado)? Yours sincerely, Conspiracies r us.

Salgado is still here aint he?

[John]

That's a cop out John.

They bought into a British business, they have to get to grips with Western business culture.

Hiding behind 'cultural differences' will cut no ice with banks and the rest of the shark infested waters of English football.

You are correct however they did not know what they were getting into in relation to owning a football club.

They were conceptually sold a dream without knowing the real detail - who did you think out the offer document together for example?

Along with their lack of understanding of football, that is what we are left with today.

[thenodrog]

There were plenty of signs Steve. One simple question - if the owners really knew what was needed to be successful, why did they feel the need to tell everyone that they could get us into the Champions League with £5m/transfer window + loans? The best owners and the best managers are the realistic ones. It is possible to be realistic while at the same time optimistic. This lot were deluded from day one and it's been so obvious for a long time.

Cos thats what they were led to believe by the one who deluded them from the outset Den. The Venkeys imo have been on a steep learning curve these past 15 months, and imo one that has shaken them to the core.

[BuckyRover]

<br />I agree completely there. Why bother getting expensive loan signings like Santa Cruz and Jermaine Jones if that was the plan.<br /><br />I'm still not convinced asset stripping is a plan. I just don't think they will ever put their own money in, and I don't think they care what happens to the club now. They'll just strip all the high earners away and replace with cheaper players, then run the club using its own money. That way Barclays are off their backs and they don't have to put in a penny.<br /><br />I have no idea how this all ends, but I think irreparable damage will have been done.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That's been forgotten now that everyone thinks they have become Mystic Meg

[47er]

<br /><br /><br />

That's been forgotten now that everyone thinks they have become Mystic Meg

There are a few Myopic Megs around too!

[broadsword]

Septic Dregs more like.

[Hughesy]

Whilst I don’t agree with Salgado being frozen out…I do agree that his wage is ludicrous and can see why they wouldn’t want to play him.

£40k a week

£10k per game bonus

£5k per game clean sheet bonus even if on the bench

That sounds like a Sam Allardyce contract offer all over....should never have taken a player on that deal!

[beatrix]

It is becoming obvious as time goes on that the bottom line is the venkys / raos are not interested in football at all. Therefore as we are only

really interested in the football side as fans we are never going to have much common ground with them. Whilst we all know that finances keep the

club going there is nothing much we as fans can do to affect the situation. The venkys are selling our prized assets as time goes on this will

probably worsen due to their total disregard for the football side. They will probably look to recoup as much cash as possible by whatever means

at their disposal, the big question is what will they do when we have been bled dry? Maybe then they will open discussions with interested parties.

It is difficult to imagine worse owners than this lot !

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Whilst I don't agree with Salgado being frozen out…I do agree that his wage is ludicrous and can see why they wouldn't want to play him.

£40k a week

£10k per game bonus

£5k per game clean sheet bonus even if on the bench

That sounds like a Sam Allardyce contract offer all over....should never have taken a player on that deal!

Correction - that sounds more like a January 2011 contract renegotiation to me more than anything else - what is your source for that info, out of curiosity? Would love to take a look at this stuff.

[broadsword]

£5k per game clean sheet bonus even if on the bench

One thing we really needn't worry about.

[Majiball]

Whilst I don’t agree with Salgado being frozen out…I do agree that his wage is ludicrous and can see why they wouldn’t want to play him.

£40k a week

£10k per game bonus

£5k per game clean sheet bonus even if on the bench

That sounds like a Sam Allardyce contract offer all over....should never have taken a player on that deal!

When was his contract renewed?

[Hughesy]

Correction - that sounds more like a January 2011 contract renegotiation to me more than anything else - what is your source for that info, out of curiosity? Would love to take a look at this stuff.

No the extra year + another year rolling & removal of relegation reduction clause sounds like Jan 11 deal.

BIG Wages & add-on clauses for golden oldies is Sam all over.

Source is a very reliable one.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

No the extra year + another year rolling & removal of relegation reduction clause sounds like Jan 11 deal.

BIG Wages & add-on clauses for golden oldies is Sam all over.

Source is a very reliable one.

No disrespect to you, Hughesy, but I almost expected this response Re: source. Frustrating.

[Mattyblue]

Sam Allardyce deals were acceptable because the chance of relegation was much reduced.

It worked at Bolton, it worked with us.

When JW was signing off these deals, he didn't expect this farce.

[Parsonblue]

No the extra year + another year rolling & removal of relegation reduction clause sounds like Jan 11 deal.

BIG Wages & add-on clauses for golden oldies is Sam all over.

Source is a very reliable one.

The bottom line is that Sam's system worked both here and at Bolton. Do you really think that Venky's cost cutting and penny pinching is going to work? Do you really believe this club is headed anywhere other than League One in the next couple of seasons? Does the signing of Bradley Orr suggest that we are preparing for anything other than relegation?

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

The bottom line is that Sam's system worked both here and at Bolton. Do you really think that Venky's cost cutting and penny pinching is going to work? Do you really believe this club is headed anywhere other than League One in the next couple of seasons? Does the signing of Bradley Orr suggest that we are preparing for anything other than relegation?

Very true - incentive pay in and of itself is an excellent tactic to get the best out employees in performance critical positions, such as athletes and sales professions - indeed in almost all positions and industries there is a positive effect on productivity AND morale with the right level and form of incentive pay. The key is finding the right triggers for the individual situation. And, IMHO, the base salary in this instance is much too high. Should almost be the other way around, i.e. 10k a week base, 20k for a start, 15k for a sub appearance, 5k for a clean sheet, 10k win bonus, 5k goal bonus, 5k assist bonus, bonuses for tackling success rate over a season, pass completion rate, plus add in other team level incentive pay etc...then you really start seeing people fighting for places and once on the pitch fighting for each other. Sadly that ship has largely sailed now that the big base salary has become standard fare.

[philipl]

No the extra year + another year rolling & removal of relegation reduction clause sounds like Jan 11 deal.

BIG Wages & add-on clauses for golden oldies is Sam all over.

Source is a very reliable one.

You are ignoring the fact that these deals were announced one by one in the press as they were signed in Feb and March 2011 to the general incredulity of most posters on the MB.

Your reliable source probably has a vested interest in shifting the blame onto Sam when these were in fact Kean's doings.

[tomphil]

Salgado is still here aint he?

You would think now that they would probably pay up the likes of Salgado and Grella with some of the Samba cash to get them off the wage bill. Unless they fell out with coco and must say sorry in order to be considered again