[Archived] BRFC v villa MARCH

[shivery85]

I attended my first march today with a little trepidation it must be said as I probably unfairly had some misconceptions about them.

I have never been 100% convinced about the effectiveness of marches and the like but I felt I should show support of the guys who have unarguably put in a hell of a lot of effort.

What I saw was a group of fans worried and passionate about the club, I saw nothing to embarass me or the club (and I'm the type who finds a lot of chants and the like embarassing)

I just wish this whole political side of things didn't exist and we could all just be fans without being labelled either way (by my count I think I'm now a fence sitting, happy clapping, grovelling, trembling venky stooge)

Tom cheers pal for attending,

That's exactly why it's done are the protests cause all we care about is our rovers!!!

[Stuart]

My view on Samuel is well documented, I was a big fan, others wernt.

But, let's take the Kean reign on it's own, we have been an unbalanced, disorganised rabble for its enterity, I'm amazed folk find it watchable, I suppose it's watchable in a crash on the other side of the motorway kind of way.

This is the point I was originally making Matty. Kean and Venkys have decimated our squad and left us with the shambles we have today. Out-of-date, unfit, inexperienced, ambling, unhappy, low quality cloggers.

What possibly ended up a Big Sam post was actually pointing out the teams involved. But imagine if Allardye had been able to add Yakubu (in his current form) to the ranks. We would have been heading for Europe! And to think we already had Sam as manager.

But that's a whole other, never-ending cyclic debate...

[Pedro]

Pedro, this is the team which Allardyce played against Villa in his final season (and beside it the team Kean sent out yesterday):

Robinson (Robinson)

Salgado (Orr)

Samba (Hanley)

Nelsen (Dann)

Givet (Olsson)

EH Diouf (N'Zonzi)

Dunn (Formica)

Jones (Petrovic)

Pedersen (Pedersen)

Hoilett (Hoilett)

Roberts (Yakubu)

Aside from Yakubu, out of the two teams I'd prefer to watch the line up Big Sam fielded every day of the week. If Sam had the luxury of a transfer budget and been able to bring in someone better than Benjani then it might be a fair comparison. The fact is Venkys and Kean have sold off our better players and brought in, in the main, dross. The first half yesterday was worse than anything Allardyce ever served up - Petrovic and N'Zonzi looked well of the pace (being kind) and disinterested (being unkind).

This is all my opinion of course but what is a fact, and seems almost incidental, is that under Sam against Villa, we won, Peds scored two goals and kept a clean sheet. Damn good going, still in my opinion, when you consider Villa's team that day: Friedal, L Young, Dunne, Downing, A Young, Ireland, Agbonlahor, Clark, Bannan, Hogg. (Although you can see why they got nil).

In any case, I, and thousands of my fellow fans, went home happy.

Yesterday I just went home.

I was out on a stag do yesterday so can't comment on the match itself. Totally appreciate he got us out of the poo and he got results at home but the matches themselves were an absolute grind for me personally. In fairness I have been over and over this in the past and I realise it is a strange viewpoint (not appreciating results and safety!) but it purely came down to style for me.

Just a point, Sam wasn't without a transfer budget though and as we know brought a mixture of good and very bad players to the club too and he did buy Kalinic though for what was a decent amount of cash but made the choice not to play him(NZonzi was his signing wasn't it?).

[Stuart]

I was out on a stag do yesterday so can't comment on the match itself. Totally appreciate he got us out of the poo and he got results at home but the matches themselves were an absolute grind for me personally. In fairness I have been over and over this in the past and I realise it is a strange viewpoint (not appreciating results and safety!) but it purely came down to style for me.

Just a point, Sam wasn't without a transfer budget though and as we know brought a mixture of good and very bad players to the club too and he did buy Kalinic though for what was a decent amount of cash but made the choice not to play him(NZonzi was his signing wasn't it?).

A very small wedge of the Roque money but I'll take your point on that one.

Having said that, I was very vocal in my backing of a player some used to call Bambi. He missed most of pre-season second time out and I never felt got a decent run in his best position.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Pedro]

A very small wedge of the Roque money but I'll take your point on that one.

Having said that, I was very vocal in my backing of a player some used to call Bambi. He missed most of pre-season second time out and I never felt got a decent run in his best position.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

I didn't mind Kalinic and dare I say it...without the need to have to bring the ball down perfectly after it plummets from 100ft in the air whilst having a 6ft2" plus defender on your back, he might have had a better impact. I felt sorry for him because he had potential and in my eyes was a victim of what was an effective system that didn't suit him. When chances did fall to him he seemed seriously unlucky and seemed to hit the bar and post a hell of a lot from half chances in crowded boxes.

I also get the feeling that he was the first in the line of the (what we now know as the) dropped for costs brigade as he was used very sparingly and dropped off the back of good performances.

[den]

I can see your point but how can there be an honest and frank meeting, if the terms of the meeting are changed at the last minute? It hardly breeds trust, and this following several other planned meetings which were apparently reneged on?

Personally I couldn't care less whether BRAG meet Paul Hunt or not. Let me put it this way.

BRAG want to talk to Hunt, but they also want to be able to relay every word back to their supporters/press etc. Under those conditions Hunt would be in a verbal straitjacket. What's the point in a meeting under those circumstances?

Hunt offered a meeting that would be off the record. No-one knows what would have been said in that meeting. As someone who's met with club officials myself, there are times when a club official will talk more openly, as long as it isn't made public. People often come away from these meetings with a totally different perspective of the problems. That's worth meeting for isn't it?

BRAG should attend the meeting if it's offered again. At the end of the day, if nothing comes from it, they carry on as normal.

Just my opinion.

.

[Roost]

Personally I couldn't care less whether BRAG meet Paul Hunt or not. Let me put it this way.

BRAG want to talk to Hunt, but they also want to be able to relay every word back to their supporters/press etc. Under those conditions Hunt would be in a verbal straitjacket. What's the point in a meeting under those circumstances?

Hunt offered a meeting that would be off the record. No-one knows what would have been said in that meeting. As someone who's met with club officials myself, there are times when a club official will talk more openly, as long as it isn't made public. People often come away from these meetings with a totally different perspective of the problems. That's worth meeting for isn't it?

BRAG should attend the meeting if it's offered again. At the end of the day, if nothing comes from it, they carry on as normal.

Just my opinion.

.

+1

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

400 left because of Sam's football.

3,000 left because of Kean's football.

And yet the people who were on the verge of or thinking about, but never actually did the former, still insist it was more damaging. Fans might let style dictate their voices, but results dictate their wallets. We'd never have dropped to 22,000 under Allardyce, regardless of how many stories of despair and angst about his awful, awful football are told.

[Stuart]

I kind of agree with you, den. I don't know why Hunt made the offer for a meeting under the circumstances - the only logical reason I can think is to halt the protests.

Anything Hunt says off the record can't be used directly by BRAG so any change of plan they had as a result would be viewed with suspicion if they couldn't say why. In any case the proviso was apparently to stop the protests before the meeting would go ahead.

So what scenarios could there be from a Hunt-initiated meeting?

1) I agree with you the owners really aren't up to this. There's nothing I can do so you'll just have to bear with us. Can't you just stop the protests their causing me nothing but grief.

2) I agree with you, the owners really aren't up to this. Here's some vital information you can use to help in your cause to wrestle the club from them.

3) When we are relegated and BRSIT buy the club, can I keep my job/salary/office/pot plants? Custard cream, anyone?

4) Look guys, the owners really care about the club. I can't tell you what is happening in the background but it's really exciting. However, you need to stop the protests so that they will come back out of hiding.

...and which would be of most use?

[Exiled in Toronto]

If, as we were told earlier, BRAG talk to Mr Hunt every day, why the big fuss about this anyway?

I have completely lost track of what BRAG want to achieve and how their tactics are designed to do so, other than to offer an outlet for frustrated fans to vent their collective spleens

[Mattyblue]

I have completely lost track of what BRAG want to achieve and how their tactics are designed to do so, other than to offer an outlet for frustrated fans to vent their collective spleens

I'm with you there, I thought the point of BRAG was to help organise events like the marches (and it was very well managed yesterday, by the way), other than that can somebody explain what the MO of BRAG is?

[Tom]

Did he have a big number on the front of his garish coloured shirt yesterday?

That's the badger

[Billinge End Blue]

Back to the marches and their possible impact on the stewarding/policing of the Darwen End before yesterday's match. It was massively OTT and, having transferred from my usual JW Upper ST seat for the game, the prematch matchday experience was reminiscent an early 90's away trip to the West Midlands. Absolutely no need and probably the reason why a few dozen casually dressed Villa fans were able to march down Darwen Street at approx 2:00 pm walking out to Ewood loudly spouting filth and abuse at random shoppers and passers by without any police escort ( as reported by a reliable non-Ewood-attending source).

[Stuart]

I'm with you there, I thought the point of BRAG was to help organise events like the marches (and it was very well managed yesterday, by the way), other than that can somebody explain what the MO of BRAG is?

My understanding is that it is keeping the feelings of fans in the public eye, with a view to getting proper communication out of the club. For Venkys to tell us what their intentions are.

A behind-closed-doors, off-the-record chat I suspect does not qualify as such.

Aims of individual marches I would argue have evolved, initially "Kean Out" and when it was clear that (no matter what happens of the pitch) Venkys will not remove him, it has moved on to trying to find out why. More recently I'd say it has continued to try to get answers but with none looking like being forthcoming, have endorsed a possible fan takeover as the next most obvious option. Nowadays, it seems clearly about "Venkys Out" probably in support of the BRSIT takeover plan.

That's just my perception - Glen, Simon, Mark or someone will be better placed.

Don't ask me if I think it's working!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

When you arrived at the DE yesterday there were massive queues with everyone being searched before they could get in. There were also quite a few police around which is unnecessary and probably very expensive. I asked 1 bloke what it was all about and he just shrugged and said he had no idea but it was a joke. Even in the ground there were quite a few police which must be costing the club a fortune. All very well to get the £2/hour brigade there on mass but police don't come cheap, we could probably pay Simon Yukovic's appearance fee by having a few less coppers at each game. It must be just to give the impression that we need controlling and restraining as there are no real reasons for all this. Another excample of fans being smeared by our own club and of the huge scism being built up between the club and the fans.

I asked the steward who frisked me why the extra security, were they expecting trouble - he responded that they weren't expecting trouble just acting on orders.

Personally I find it insulting - there has never been much trouble at Rovers down the years - indeed most trouble being caused by away fans (anyone remember Chelsea fans storming the Blackburn End back in the 80's ?). And yet, because there are protests - which have been entirely peaceful - they seem intent on tarring Rovers fans as some form of animals. Surely if anyone wanted to get at Kean - they would start from the Jack Walker Lower tier - rather than attempting a very long run from the DE ?

[Mattie456]

400 left because of Sam's football.

3,000 left because of Kean's football.

And yet the people who were on the verge of or thinking about, but never actually did the former, still insist it was more damaging. Fans might let style dictate their voices, but results dictate their wallets. We'd never have dropped to 22,000 under Allardyce, regardless of how many stories of despair and angst about his awful, awful football are told.

And after all its not like the current financial climate has affected attendances up and down the country is it?

I'm sure a good few have stopped coming due to kean/ venkys but I reckon far more of our non attendees are feeling the pinch financially.

[Stuart]

I asked the steward who frisked me why the extra security, were they expecting trouble - he responded that they weren't expecting trouble just acting on orders.

Personally I find it insulting - there has never been much trouble at Rovers down the years - indeed most trouble being caused by away fans (anyone remember Chelsea fans storming the Blackburn End back in the 80's ?). And yet, because there are protests - which have been entirely peaceful - they seem intent on tarring Rovers fans as some form of animals. Surely if anyone wanted to get at Kean - they would start from the Jack Walker Lower tier - rather than attempting a very long run from the DE ?

Spot on. Sounds like part of a smear campaign.

"When you treat people like animals, they become animals… ones that don’t obey you." - Paul Vitale

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

400 left because of Sam's football.

3,000 left because of Kean's football.

And yet the people who were on the verge of or thinking about, but never actually did the former, still insist it was more damaging. Fans might let style dictate their voices, but results dictate their wallets. We'd never have dropped to 22,000 under Allardyce, regardless of how many stories of despair and angst about his awful, awful football are told.

I think you have to take things in context :-

1. Most peoples disposable income has slumped since Sam was in charge.

2. We reduced ST prices hugely under Sam - though the prices are still cheap, I think unfortunately people will inevitably take things for granted after the initial impact.

I'll balance that all up :-

3. Strangely - rarely winning home matches does start to impact on your enjoyment of matches.

If Sam had continued in the job - we would still have had the false promises from the owners, and the raising of expectations. Would he have used the Jones money better - difficult to say - Kalanic would suggest not, but of course he had also bought some good buys as well. I think most would agree that we wouldn't be as deep in the mire as we are - but how many fans would have continued to put up with the pragmatic style of football, and the matches to actually try in (United away !) is any ones guess.

Bottom line - we would have dropped attendances no matter who was in charge. However - Kean promised us goals - which he has delivered - shame most are in our own net.

[47er]

They opened the door for dialogue. You had no idea what would have been said. For a first meeting you should have accepted. Then see what happened from there.

If the meeting had gone ahead and Brag were unable to communicate to fans what had gone on---------you would have been the first to get stuck into them!

They really couldn't win either way on here!

There's not a great deal of point in a further 8 people being ITK, is there BRB?

If that was Mr Hunt's stance he really shouldn't have been surprised if his terms were refused. What can he say privately that he can't say publically, and why would he bother? Is it all about halting the protests?

Also odd that a meeting is arranged only for restrictions to be applied at the 11th hour. Someone's playing games.

+1

[47er]

This is the point I was originally making Matty. Kean and Venkys have decimated our squad and left us with the shambles we have today. Out-of-date, unfit, inexperienced, ambling, unhappy, low quality cloggers.

What possibly ended up a Big Sam post was actually pointing out the teams involved. But imagine if Allardye had been able to add Yakubu (in his current form) to the ranks. We would have been heading for Europe! And to think we already had Sam as manager.

But that's a whole other, never-ending cyclic debate...

I don't thonk 'cloggers" is the right word for the likes of Petrovic and Formica! Lightweights more like!

I'd have more time for them if they were cloggers to be honest. No spine in mid-field has been the major problem all along.

[Stuart]

I don't thonk 'cloggers" is the right word for the likes of Petrovic and Formica! Lightweights more like!

I'd have more time for them if they were cloggers to be honest. No spine in mid-field has been the major problem all along.

Thonk what you like.

The adjectives were all describing individuals rather than all players the same. Petrovic and N'Zonzi were so slow and disinterested - especially in the first half - yesterday it was untrue.