[Archived] BRFC v villa MARCH

[sentient]

haha, yeah I'm always making threats to people and getting my mate (whoever that is) to take out injunctions...and you call me pathetic. I would repeat the offer made to you many times to come to a pre-meet and see for yourself if we are pathetic and a disgrace, but you probably won't and continue to slag us off with either little or no knowledge of the people on the forum.

lol "come to our PREmeet"

wtf would i want to come to your premeet? to discuss which pie flavours we might want to have on the agenda for consideration of submission of proposals to deputy CEO Paul Hunt? or maybe you'd just like to beat me up for having the temerity to question ff motives?

PATHETIC & DISGRACEFUL are the words that I choose to describe the PATHETIC & DISGRACEUL lack of action from the fans forum. If you renamed yourself to the more-honest lackeys forum then I would stop attacking you for being charlatans.

[mark1875]

They opened the door for dialogue. You had no idea what would have been said. For a first meeting you should have accepted. Then see what happened from there.

Then keep having secret meetings? leaving supporters in the dark? the decision taken was the correct one for the fans.

[den]

open communication. not keeping other fans in the dark. that might be your style but its not mine.

Plainly naieve Mark. If you want to publish what Hunt says to you in a meeting, do you really think he's going to give you any ammunition that can be used against the owners or manager? It would be the most pointless meeting ever.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Why - where has that got anyone?

Responsible people wouldn't do that.

It's obvious to me, that if BRAG - or any supporters group - want any meeting with Paul Hunt to be made public, then Hunt isn't going to say anything that doesn't do anything other than simply tow the party line. The only way you might get info from him that might help your cause, or give you a better insight into things at the club, is to go private with him. Depends what you want. Do you want to go into a meeting to "give him some home truths and a bit of stick" just to make you all feel better - or do you want to work with him?

Well said Den.

So far, by my reckoning, BRAG, or their more prominent spokesperson, have turned down meetings with the club, the FF and BRST yet are on here constantly calling for the need to work together.

Diplomacy is never conducted in the open; trust needs to be gained before any progress can be made. BRAG are beginning to sound (for older posters on here) like Violet Elizabeth Bott from the Just William stories, "I'll scweam and scweam and scweam until I'm sick"

[mark1875]

Plainly naieve Mark. If you want to publish what Hunt says to you in a meeting, do you really think he's going to give you any ammunition that can be used against the owners or manager? It would be the most pointless meeting ever.

What we would gain from the meeting was also addressed when we together assessed our next move. Cancelling a protest at the 11th hour in exchange for an hour long meeting, which we would benefit very little from and never be able to speak about to anybody was not acceptable.

The meeting was penned in as most people know a fortnight ago! Changing the goalposts on Friday was a clear tactic by the club, tactics which are all too common.

The first meeting will be the start of open dialogue and we should be able to keep the supporters updated with the progression of these meetings, if we cannot do that then why have them?

[47er]

At least they are accepted by the club. I doubt BRAG or at the moment other groups can say the same.

And that's a good thing is it?

[Stuart]

Why - where has that got anyone?

Responsible people wouldn't do that.

It's obvious to me, that if BRAG - or any supporters group - want any meeting with Paul Hunt to be made public, then Hunt isn't going to say anything that doesn't do anything other than simply tow the party line. The only way you might get info from him that might help your cause, or give you a better insight into things at the club, is to go private with him. Depends what you want. Do you want to go into a meeting to "give him some home truths and a bit of stick" just to make you all feel better - or do you want to work with him?

Why were these conditions imposed at the 11th hour and on the proviso that protests were halted? That sounds like it was just to avert the protests.

How many times have the club apparently agreed to talks if protests are halted and then reneged? I don't believe that even behind closed doors Mr Hunt would have broken ranks from the company line but he would have compromised the position of BRAG. Job done.

[bob fleming]

Paul Hunt my arse. Who? The guy is a complete nobody, a nothing. In a waste of space of a job. A yes man, a pacifier, a placater. He has no power, no say, nothing. Any meeting would have been a waste of time. He'd have told you nothing, probably because he knows nothing.

It would have been another one of those statements, you know the ones, "judge us in a year", "judge us at the end of the window", that sort of crap. All designed to buy these cretins more time to dismantle the club.

Oh and good guys would have gotten another job by now. Not towed the company li(n)e. I don't know why you'd want to meet him in the first place.

[PAFELL]

And that's a good thing is it?

Yes. In any dialogue trust has to be established by all first. The FF already have that. Though people forget that the FF are not a protest group.

BRAG are not only pushing many fans away by their militant attitude. They are now pushing the club away, by refusing an invite to meet.

Trust on all sides has to be established.

[gumboots]

Yes. In any dialogue trust has to be established by all first. The FF already have that. Though people forget that the FF are not a protest group.

BRAG are not only pushing many fans away by their militant attitude. They are now pushing the club away, by refusing an invite to meet.

Trust on all sides has to be established.

So how exactly are the club going to get the fans to trust them in view of the fact that they have lied before and continue to do so?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Paul Hunt my arse. Who? The guy is a complete nobody, a nothing. In a waste of space of a job. A yes man, a pacifier, a placater. He has no power, no say, nothing. Any meeting would have been a waste of time. He'd have told you nothing, probably because he knows nothing.

It would have been another one of those statements, you know the ones, "judge us in a year", "judge us at the end of the window", that sort of crap. All designed to buy these cretins more time to dismantle the club.

Oh and good guys would have gotten another job by now. Not towed the company li(n)e. I don't know why you'd want to meet him in the first place.

Bob - interesting perspective that you believe they are going to dismantle the club. If they care that little about Rovers - and that little about the negative publicity that would ensue from such action - do you feel the protests will actually make any difference ?

It is a genuine question - not having a pop.

Personally I am of the opinion that the protests have little chance of success - because the owners don't seem to care. They have had negative publicity - they have stuck with a manager who risks losing them a fair amount of money - and their free advertising if we get relegated - and yet they persist down the same path. If anything the protests may actually be increasing their advertising - along the lines of there is no such thing as bad publicity ! Having said all that - I defend the rights of the protesters - and sincerely hope that I am wrong and that they are eventually successful in making our owners at the very least reconsider their current strategy for the club.

[den]

Why were these conditions imposed at the 11th hour and on the proviso that protests were halted? That sounds like it was just to avert the protests.

How many times have the club apparently agreed to talks if protests are halted and then reneged? I don't believe that even behind closed doors Mr Hunt would have broken ranks from the company line but he would have compromised the position of BRAG. Job done.

You've made your mind up about Hunts position before you've even met him Stuart.

Now you and Bob Fleming might be right, the meeting might not turn out to be what you would have liked. You have to make your mind up though - you either want to talk to him, or you don't. If you do want to talk then get on with it. If you don't want to talk then drop the whole idea.

[sentient]

Yes. In any dialogue trust has to be established by all first. The FF already have that. Though people forget that the FF are not a protest group.

BRAG are not only pushing many fans away by their militant attitude. They are now pushing the club away, by refusing an invite to meet.

Trust on all sides has to be established.

The FF have the trust of the club ... but what about the fans?

How do you know what the fans in east lancs are thinking?

The PATHETIC & DISGRACEFUL acts and omissions of the owners, its employees and lackeys have already driven-away thousands of supporters. How many more will disappear in the summer?

[Stuart]

Yes. In any dialogue trust has to be established by all first. The FF already have that. Though people forget that the FF are not a protest group.

BRAG are not only pushing many fans away by their militant attitude. They are now pushing the club away, by refusing an invite to meet.

Trust on all sides has to be established.

The FF do not have (nor do they seem to want) any remit to talk about football matters, like the manager, so how can you point to that as dialogue that's already available?

BRAG are filling this void in the absence of anyone else.

Militant? Is than an automatic label in response to the fact that they protest/march? Have you ever witnessed (let alone been part of) a BRAG-led protest? No, you just carry on casting aspersions about people you have never met.

Well I'm about to do the same when I say that BRAG care more about BRFC than you do, PAFELL.

Doesn't feel good does it?

[Stuart]

You've made your mind up about Hunts position before you've even met him Stuart.

Now you and Bob Fleming might be right, the meeting might not turn out to be what you would have liked. You have to make your mind up though - you either want to talk to him, or you don't. If you do want to talk then get on with it. If you don't want to talk then drop the whole idea.

Just to be clear den, I'm not a member of BRAG but I am glad there is a group of people who have formed this group. Although they are not leaders, the likes of Bob and Dawn epitomise what BRAG is about (even if they aren't members - as I don't know that for sure). However, they are the types of people I think represent the majority of fans' feelings.

You are right I haven't met Paul Hunt, and he may be a good guy. However, I allow myself to believe that he doesn't have Rovers best interests at heart because he is one of the people employed to do Venkys bidding, and what has happened to the club has happened on his watch.

My view of him is much the same as my view of Kean.

If you have information which suggests otherwise, please let me know.

[sentient]

Well I'm about to do the same when I say that BRAG care more about BRFC than you do, PAFELL.

Doesn't feel good does it?

The truth is often painful.

[PAFELL]

So how exactly are the club going to get the fans to trust them in view of the fact that they have lied before and continue to do so?

Not saying any dialogue is easy. But the door was opened. But because brag shut the door, it may take awhile for it to be opened again.

People went to pune. Nobody knew what to expect. But they had to go just to see if it achieved anything. It hasn't. But they had to try all the same.

[sentient]

Not saying any dialogue is easy. But the door was opened. But because brag shut the door, it may take awhile for it to be opened again.

People went to pune. Nobody knew what to expect. But they had to go just to see if it achieved anything. It hasn't. But they had to try all the same.

The door was effectively closed by Paul Hunt when he changed the admissions policy at the last moment. But don't let that stop your cheerleading for the ff. PATHETIC & DISGRACEFUL.

[PAFELL]

The FF do not have (nor do they seem to want) any remit to talk about football matters, like the manager, so how can you point to that as dialogue that's already available?

BRAG are filling this void in the absence of anyone else.

Militant? Is than an automatic label in response to the fact that they protest/march? Have you ever witnessed (let alone been part of) a BRAG-led protest? No, you just carry on casting aspersions about people you have never met.

Well I'm about to do the same when I say that BRAG care more about BRFC than you do, PAFELL.

Doesn't feel good does it?

Just because people do not get involved in protest marches. Does not mean they do not care about the club. What was the attendance yesterday, 20 odd thousand. Yet less than a 1000 protested. So do the others not care for the club. Is it only protestors who care about the club?

[roverandout]

pafell, you talk absolute rubbish sometimes, why are you always seeming to be siding with the club when its clear that they are the ones in the wrong?

[Stuart]

Just because people do not get involved in protest marches. Does not mean they do not care about the club. What was the attendance yesterday, 20 odd thousand. Yet less than a 1000 protested. So do the others not care for the club. Is it only protestors who care about the club?

We're you part of that 20 odd thousand?

BRAG were.

[glen9mullan]

Not saying any dialogue is easy. But the door was opened. But because brag shut the door, it may take awhile for it to be opened again.

People went to pune. Nobody knew what to expect. But they had to go just to see if it achieved anything. It hasn't. But they had to try all the same.

We talk with the club daily and Mr Hunt in particular, however the questions which many supporters have, and have been collected from here and other places, need answering, and not just to a small group of 8 people

Four protest have been cancelled to date on the promise of an open and honest meeting which will be minuted so that all supporters, know the outcome and answers. For 7 months we have been seeking transparency and although disappointed the meeting did not go ahead, we must always act as a committee in the best interest of those who elected us from the Action group members.

The clubs stance that we could report NONE of the meeting to anyone including the action group members, put us in the position were the meeting was a non starter. Talks are not dead, but on this occassion after already giving concessions on previous promised meetings which were cancelled at the eleventh hour we felt it was not in the supporters best interest, for us to attend a meeting which had no benefit to the supporters.

The group has a good relationship with Mr Hunt, and a mutual respect . We will continue dialogue for a more transparent outcome over the next few weeks, As we have other meetings on the horizon with the FA and Sports Minister

[deftangel]

You've made your mind up about Hunts position before you've even met him Stuart.

Now you and Bob Fleming might be right, the meeting might not turn out to be what you would have liked. You have to make your mind up though - you either want to talk to him, or you don't. If you do want to talk then get on with it. If you don't want to talk then drop the whole idea.

Haven't the club made promises about meetings before only to renege on them later? Offering a meeting only if the protests are cancelled at the 11th hour is deliberately underhand and I've no problem with that offer being declined on that basis. We've been here before.

The point about whether the discussions at the meeting should be made public or not is a difficult one but the club have to demonstrate they have it within them to actually honour a commitment in good faith. If this was the first time, of course they should be taken at their word but it isn't and I don't think it's fair for them to be able to act otherwise.

Perfectly reasonable for BRAG to decline in my opinion, but yet again I see we've had another week of tiresome bashing of other groups. One step forward and two steps back I'm afraid.

[bob fleming]

Bob - interesting perspective that you believe they are going to dismantle the club. If they care that little about Rovers - and that little about the negative publicity that would ensue from such action - do you feel the protests will actually make any difference ?It is a genuine question - not having a pop.Personally I am of the opinion that the protests have little chance of success - because the owners don't seem to care. They have had negative publicity - they have stuck with a manager who risks losing them a fair amount of money - and their free advertising if we get relegated - and yet they persist down the same path. If anything the protests may actually be increasing their advertising - along the lines of there is no such thing as bad publicity ! Having said all that - I defend the rights of the protesters - and sincerely hope that I am wrong and that they are eventually successful in making our owners at the very least reconsider their current strategy for the club.

Couldn't agree more with all of that. For me the day protests became futile after a match before Christmas, post game sit in. What a joke. Staying behind for 5 minutes shouting at an empty dug out, empty directors box and empty stadium. Do you feel our pain Venky's? Oh I forgot - you don't even have the decency to speak to the fans, the decency to attend any games. Or the decency to at least pretend you even care.

Since then I haven't bothered. I've never marched. I've been to Chorley twice but that was more to do with Chorley than anything else (no colours for me).

As for negative publicity. No one cares! No one gives a damn about BRFC! Not in the slightest. Certainly not the Premier League or the FA. Does anyone care or even know about Port Vale's plight? It's just another club in crisis. "I see Blackburn have gone into administation". "Yes, it was that Venkys lot - what a set of idiots." "A bit of a shame that, anyway United are on later" "Is Rooney playing?" - that'll be about it.

Just to be clear den, I'm not a member of BRAG but I am glad there is a group of people who have formed this group. Although they are not leaders, the likes of Bob and Dawn epitomise what BRAG is about (even if they aren't members - as I don't know that for sure). However, they are the types of people I think represent the majority of fans' feelings.

Nope, not a member of BRAG, BRST, BRSiT, FF, The Scouts or The WI. Just a fed up supporter.

[rovers11]

We talk with the club daily and Mr Hunt in particular, however the questions which many supporters have, and have been collected from here and other places, need answering, and not just to a small group of 8 people

Four protest have been cancelled to date on the promise of an open and honest meeting which will be minuted so that all supporters, know the outcome and answers. For 7 months we have been seeking transparency and although disappointed the meeting did not go ahead, we must always act as a committee in the best interest of those who elected us from the Action group members.

The clubs stance that we could report NONE of the meeting to anyone including the action group members, put us in the position were the meeting was a non starter. Talks are not dead, but on this occassion after already giving concessions on previous promised meetings which were cancelled at the eleventh hour we felt it was not in the supporters best interest, for us to attend a meeting which had no benefit to the supporters.

The group has a good relationship with Mr Hunt, and a mutual respect . We will continue dialogue for a more transparent outcome over the next few weeks, As we have other meetings on the horizon with the FA and Sports Minister

I appreciate the efforts you and the other committee members are making. I also appreciate and understand why BRAG pulled out of the meeting yesterday. However, I think this was a mistake. I would have much preferred a small group of fans having a meeting with the club, albeit off the record, as opposed to no meeting at all. This would have got the ball rolling and trust built up. I don't think hunt would actually have the answers to the questions we want because he has no real power. This meeting would be a stepping stone to getting a meeting with the owners in the summer.

The club would have been very happy that the meeting was called off yesterday. I'm sure the very reason they wanted the meeting to be off record is so that BRAG would call the meeting off. We have played into their hands.