[Archived] Tanker strike?

[whittle blue]

Went to get a gallon of petrol for the lawn mower this morning.

Hope you take Jim's advice and don't keep it in the garage Gordon.

Or the mower

Or your car for that matter.

I'd better nip next door & tell my neighbour to shift his motorbike.

[roversmum]

People are just filling up their cars for the sake of it - many would be sitting on drives doing nothing anyway. My car only has a third of a tank of petrol but as I can manage with that I'm not going to fill it up.

Meanwhile, my daughter had an empty tank and a sick child that urgently needed to get to hospital. Luckily the owner of a nearby petrol station had the nous to let her put some petrol in her tank (she couldn't afford to fill it anyway) despite the anger of those with huge 4x4s waiting to needlessly fill their tanks.

However, mindless as the remarks by Maude may have been - let's look back and see how it all started in the first place? A Trade Union and a strike call - Just remind me what is happening at the beginning of next month? Ah yes, local elections. Bingo... Dirty tricks perhaps???

[colin]

Just remind me what is happening at the beginning of next month? Ah yes, local elections. Bingo... Dirty tricks perhaps???

You may be putting two and two together and coming up with five. The threatened strike is all about safety measures & training for the drivers. They are on the public highway with 50,000 litres of petrol on board and many of them don't know what they are doing. To be honest I'd quite like the average petrol tanker driver to be pretty well up to speed with all the implications with what he or she is doing.

Man & Van for hire behind the wheel of 50,000 litres of petrol is not a reassuring thought.

[thenodrog]

Hope you take Jim's advice and don't keep it in the garage Gordon.

Or the mower

Or your car for that matter.

I'd better nip next door & tell my neighbour to shift his motorbike.

Greenhouse whittle...... does that make me a bad person in Jim's eyes do you think?

You may be putting two and two together and coming up with five. The threatened strike is all about safety measures & training for the drivers. They are on the public highway with 50,000 litres of petrol on board and many of them don't know what they are doing. To be honest I'd quite like the average petrol tanker driver to be pretty well up to speed with all the implications with what he or she is doing.

Man & Van for hire behind the wheel of 50,000 litres of petrol is not a reassuring thought.

Me too. There seems to be a fatal accident with a tanker exploding outside a school every single day of the week.

As it is H&S stuff does provide rather a convenient excuse to skive and / or blackmail employers for better terms for the bolshier drivers..... and anybody who works with lorry drivers knows full well that there are plenty of them. I must say I've not really read much about this but I'm sure the H&S and the insurance companies will have dotted all the i's and crossed the t's years ago with regulations applicable to fuel transport and storage.

[Paul]

Me too. There seems to be a fatal accident with a tanker exploding outside a school every single day of the week.

That the benefit / effect of current legislation covering HGV drivers exists

As it is H&S stuff does provide rather a convenient excuse to skive and / or blackmail employers for better terms for the bolshier drivers..... and anybody who works with lorry drivers knows full well that there are plenty of them. I must say I've not really read much about this but I'm sure the H&S and the insurance companies will have dotted all the i's and crossed the t's years ago with regulations applicable to fuel transport and storage.

Certainly we used to experience large numbers of "bolshy" lorry drivers however this has changed enormously in recent years and those who work for professional haulage companies fully realise they represent their own company and, when delivering on behalf of their company's customers, they actually represent both their employer and their employer's customer. The majority of drivers we meet are thoroughly professional - the ones who get bolshy are usually agency drivers, anyone getting bolshy on our sites finds himself at the back of the queue and tips his own load!

The strike issue is about H&S and driver's hours legislation on the face of it. The reality, if you speak to drivers, is the schedules are now so tight it has become almost impossible to achieve the delivery targets within current legislation. One of the UK's largest haulage operations delivers fuel in Tesco badged vehicles, the company is one of those imposing very, very difficult deadlines. This is the real nature of the strike but the unions can't come out and state firms X,Y and Z are close to infringing the law, in my opinion!

[colin]

I must say I've not really read much about this but I'm sure the H&S and the insurance companies will have dotted all the i's and crossed the t's years ago with regulations applicable to fuel transport and storage.

Oh well, as long as you're content that's OK. But, if you don't mind, I'd quite like to hear the concerns of the drivers who actually do the job.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Oh well, as long as you're content that's OK. But, if you don't mind, I'd quite like to hear the concerns of the drivers who actually do the job.

Like the massive pay-cut that's being pushed on them, the fact that agency staff with little or no training are being brought in to undercut experienced professionals, or the government making an allowance in the legal driving hours so that tanker drivers can work 2 more hours per day than normal HGV drivers?

[Stuart]

Like the massive pay-cut that's being pushed on them, the fact that agency staff with little or no training are being brought in to undercut experienced professionals, or the government making an allowance in the legal driving hours so that tanker drivers can work 2 more hours per day than normal HGV drivers?

Could you provide more detail about that "massive pay cut".

A link will do - cheers.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

20% pay cut:

http://libcom.org/blog/uk-tanker-drivers-announce-week-long-strike-over-20-pay-cut-24012012

http://union-news.co.uk/2012/01/video-tanker-drivers-resist-20-cuts-in-conocophillips-fuel-srike/

[thenodrog]

Like the massive pay-cut that's being pushed on them, the fact that agency staff with little or no training are being brought in to undercut experienced professionals, or the government making an allowance in the legal driving hours so that tanker drivers can work 2 more hours per day than normal HGV drivers?

Just as a comparison to your perfect new homeland.... Whats the employment situation, haulage regs in H&S and average wage in Tanzania jeru?

btw are you coping ok with the mozzies?

[Jeru tha Damaja]

OK, we'll move the strawman before we begin, because I never said Tanzania was perfect. As flattered as I am, I can't help but think you wouldn't really care about conditions in east Africa if it wasn't for your ongoing efforts to force your opinions on me. I'm glad you've got a hobby, but this isn't a productive outlet for your frustrations and in future if you want to make a point you could do some research instead of asking facetious questions.

Employment varies pretty widely between different regions and getting an accurate picture is difficult when so many people live off the land rather than actually engaging in the economy. I don't know what the average wage is, I know what my wage will be, but I hardly think that's any of your business.

What was rather charming is that people are less given to wallowing in self-pity, waiting for a handout or blaming someone else if they don't have a job. It's humbling to see people who have nothing but they still smile. Britain has gone a different direction and fostered a culture of entitlement which has in turn managed to instill people with laziness and greed at the same time (speaking only from my experiences, maybe you know different).

Health and safety hasn't yet created a climate where people are filing suits against each other for every bruise or broken nail, again somewhat refreshing after seeing the way such legislation is exploited back in the UK.

Funnily enough, I haven't got round to reading the regulations for drivers in Tanzania. I only know about drivers' issues in Britain because 4 of my family are HGV drivers, but I haven't had cause to check the rules in Tanzania.

I can tell you that trucks do fair travel between Dar es Salaam and the other cities, but driving is a different proposition there anyway. Away from Dar there aren't that many tankers, and once you move inland there are hardly any, so it's not an issue I'm too worried about.

Will that be all? Or would you like me to say something about how brilliant Britain is before you let go?

"Honestly, I think it's fantastic that the government has climbed down from their proposal of reading private emails just in case you're a terrorist. Go Britain!"

Oh, and the mosquitoes haven't worryied me too much, and by the time I return the rainy season will be over in Tanga, making them less of a problem.

[jim mk2]

Will that be all? Or would you like me to say something about how brilliant Britain is before you let go?

You could try but like most emigres you will always blame this country for your own personal failings. Running away from Britain to live in Tanzania ? ... you're a joke.

[Stuart]

20% pay cut:

http://libcom.org/blog/uk-tanker-drivers-announce-week-long-strike-over-20-pay-cut-24012012

http://union-news.co.uk/2012/01/video-tanker-drivers-resist-20-cuts-in-conocophillips-fuel-srike/

Interesting. Union material calling it a 20% pay cut. I've read elsewhere that they are actually having terms and conditions that mean they may not receive bonuses in certain circumstances.

I've always been taught not to budget around bonuses or overtime as both can be removed at any time. Is it actually a straight 20% reduction in basic wage or a loss of bonus equating to a 20% loss as that isn't clear.

Tell you what is clear though. £45k to drive a truck. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes marvel at the skills of HGV drivers when negotiating a tight bend or turn in the road. But not £45k worth of marvelling. Struth, don't know why I bothered going to University.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

You could try but like most emigres you will always blame this country for your own personal failings. Running away from Britain to live in Tanzania ? ... you're a joke.

Joke, failure, call me what you like. In the end I guess I'm just lucky that my self-esteem doesn't hinge on the opinions of a keyboard warrior.

Funny, though, that I'm the one smiling while you seem horribly offended just because I made a choice to live somewhere different to you. I didn't get personal about it, I didn't tell anyone they're wrong because they don't agree with me and I even tried explaining my choices as though any of you are actually in a position to demand answers from me.

I think the most amusing part is that after years of being told "if you don't like it you can always leave", I took that advice and found that as I was leaving the party that I wasn't enjoying the host was so put out that they came to the door to shout insults down the street after me. There really is no pleasing you people, is there?

What you know about my failures and successes would probably take all of 5 seconds to discuss, so let's not pretend that any assumption you want to make about me has any merit at all. It's great how people feel so confident they're right when they don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about.

I briefly considered asking what is so great about Britain that it provokes such blind loyalty, but I honestly doubt I'd be interested enough to read whatever explanation you might offer. As you've just proved with the sweetest of timing, Britain is fast becoming a nation of bitter people who resent anyone else having a different opinion or finding contentment, and who refuse to grow up to the point where adults who should know better feel big about themselves by using the internet to throw labels at people they have no knowledge of.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

You could try but like most emigres you will always blame this country for your own personal failings. Running away from Britain to live in Tanzania ? ... you're a joke.

Joke, failure, call me what you like. In the end I guess I'm just lucky that my self-esteem doesn't hinge on the opinions of a keyboard warrior.

Funny, though, that I'm the one smiling while you seem horribly offended just because I made a choice to live somewhere different to you. I didn't get personal about it, I didn't tell anyone they're wrong because they don't agree with me and I even tried explaining my choices as though any of you are actually in a position to demand answers from me.

I think the most amusing part is that after years of being told "if you don't like it you can always leave", I took that advice and found that as I was leaving the party that I wasn't enjoying the host was so put out that they came to the door to shout insults down the street after me. There really is no pleasing you people, is there?

What you know about my failures and successes would probably take all of 5 seconds to discuss, so let's not pretend that any assumption you want to make about me has any merit at all. It's great how people feel so confident they're right when they don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about.

I briefly considered asking what is so great about Britain that it provokes such blind loyalty, but I honestly doubt I'd be interested enough to read whatever explanation you might offer. As you've just proved with the sweetest of timing, Britain is fast becoming a nation of bitter people who resent anyone else having a different opinion or finding contentment, and who refuse to grow up to the point where adults who should know better feel big about themselves by using the internet to throw labels at people they have no knowledge of.

Interesting. Union material calling it a 20% pay cut. I've read elsewhere that they are actually having terms and conditions that mean they may not receive bonuses in certain circumstances.

I've always been taught not to budget around bonuses or overtime as both can be removed at any time. Is it actually a straight 20% reduction in basic wage or a loss of bonus equating to a 20% loss as that isn't clear.

Tell you what is clear though. £45k to drive a truck. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes marvel at the skills of HGV drivers when negotiating a tight bend or turn in the road. But not £45k worth of marvelling. Struth, don't know why I bothered going to University.

I don't know why lots of people bother going to uni considering the value of the qualifications they come out with these days, but that's a separate issue.

£45k a year to work 6 days out of 8 and 13 hours a day most of the time. That works out at £12.64(ish) per hour. I have known people who earn £10 an hour for having no qualifications, sitting behind a desk and typing for 7 and a half hours a day. Is it so unimaginable that the rate of pay for a skilled, qualified professional who has to submit to regular retraining and reassessment should get £2.64 an hour more?

Then there's the way the shift patterns kill drivers' personal lives, to the point where the people they are closest to are sitting next to them in a truck-stop. Even McDonalds compensates their workers with a slight increase in pay for working unsociable hours, should that not apply to drivers?

[SAS]

Joke, failure, call me what you like. In the end I guess I'm just lucky that my self-esteem doesn't hinge on the opinions of a keyboard warrior.

Funny, though, that I'm the one smiling while you seem horribly offended just because I made a choice to live somewhere different to you. I didn't get personal about it, I didn't tell anyone they're wrong because they don't agree with me and I even tried explaining my choices as though any of you are actually in a position to demand answers from me.

I think the most amusing part is that after years of being told "if you don't like it you can always leave", I took that advice and found that as I was leaving the party that I wasn't enjoying the host was so put out that they came to the door to shout insults down the street after me. There really is no pleasing you people, is there?

What you know about my failures and successes would probably take all of 5 seconds to discuss, so let's not pretend that any assumption you want to make about me has any merit at all. It's great how people feel so confident they're right when they don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about.

I briefly considered asking what is so great about Britain that it provokes such blind loyalty, but I honestly doubt I'd be interested enough to read whatever explanation you might offer. As you've just proved with the sweetest of timing, Britain is fast becoming a nation of bitter people who resent anyone else having a different opinion or finding contentment, and who refuse to grow up to the point where adults who should know better feel big about themselves by using the internet to throw labels at people they have no knowledge of.

I don't know why lots of people bother going to uni considering the value of the qualifications they come out with these days, but that's a separate issue.

£45k a year to work 6 days out of 8 and 13 hours a day most of the time. That works out at £12.64(ish) per hour. I have known people who earn £10 an hour for having no qualifications, sitting behind a desk and typing for 7 and a half hours a day. Is it so unimaginable that the rate of pay for a skilled, qualified professional who has to submit to regular retraining and reassessment should get £2.64 an hour more?

Then there's the way the shift patterns kill drivers' personal lives, to the point where the people they are closest to are sitting next to them in a truck-stop. Even McDonalds compensates their workers with a slight increase in pay for working unsociable hours, should that not apply to drivers?

Any tanker drivers that are fed up, I will gladly swap with you for the stress and pressure of my job which involves a running a multi million pound section of a business and being responsible for over 60 staff, as long as they are willing to drop a few k's.

[adopted scouser]

£45k a year to work 6 days out of 8 and 13 hours a day most of the time. That works out at £12.64(ish) per hour. I have known people who earn £10 an hour for having no qualifications, sitting behind a desk and typing for 7 and a half hours a day. Is it so unimaginable that the rate of pay for a skilled, qualified professional who has to submit to regular retraining and reassessment should get £2.64 an hour more?

Then there's the way the shift patterns kill drivers' personal lives, to the point where the people they are closest to are sitting next to them in a truck-stop. Even McDonalds compensates their workers with a slight increase in pay for working unsociable hours, should that not apply to drivers?

Talking bollloks again. Working six out of eight ? I only ever remember the Beatles coming up with an eight day week, and the driving/rest periods are covered by the tachograph. One of my jobs as a youth working with tanker drivers in Blackburn was to check the discs.

So we should pay them more because the job is killing their personal life ? don't be such a drama queen. If you ask me they are on perfectly good money as it is, despite the responsibility of carrying fuel and their parking skills, that's a lot of money for driving a wagon.

I worked with tanker drivers for over five years and they were a great bunch of lads, getting thrown into that kind of environment at 17 you grow up quick.Even back then they earned good money and didn't pull over into Pop's cafe in Lymm to have a good cry about their personal lives.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Talking bollloks again. Working six out of eight ? I only ever remember the Beatles coming up with an eight day week, and the driving/rest periods are covered by the tachograph. One of my jobs as a youth working with tanker drivers in Blackburn was to check the discs.

So we should pay them more because the job is killing their personal life ? don't be such a drama queen. If you ask me they are on perfectly good money as it is, despite the responsibility of carrying fuel and their parking skills, that's a lot of money for driving a wagon.

I worked with tanker drivers for over five years and they were a great bunch of lads, getting thrown into that kind of environment at 17 you grow up quick.Even back then they earned good money and didn't pull over into Pop's cafe in Lymm to have a good cry about their personal lives.

They are on good money, and you could probably make an argument for a pay-cut, but £9k overnight is a bit of a steep drop. All I'm saying is you can earn a plenty of money for doing a lot less hours in a much less demanding job, so why should they be compensated less than other people?

Driving hours and duty hours are different concepts. You might also want to look into how firms abuse POA rules to squeeze extra hours out of their drivers. In case anyone wants to know, the limits are 9 driving hours a day which can be extended to 10 twice a week. In a week you can drive for, at most, 56 hours. Over a fortnight the maximum is 90 hours. Again, duty hours are different, it can be 11 hours, and keep in mind that companies tend to push that as close to the limit as they can, so 60 hour weeks are commonplace for drivers.

If you don't believe that drivers work shift patterns instead of regular weeks then that's up to you, but a short chat with a few drivers would tell you different. My dad still works 6 on, 2 off driving an HGV, but of course that's impossible, isn't it? My uncle works 5 on, 3 off, and a neighbour does 4 on, 4 off (albeit alternating between being on the road and in the planning office). Not everyone's week runs Monday to Friday.

Tachographs have been replaced by cards in most firms, by the way. Cameras are mounted on a lot of trucks to provide evidence to insurance companies when fraudsters decide to jump in front of a lorry and slam the brakes on, knowing full well the truck won't be able to stop. And VOSA (maybe you haven't heard of them since it probably didn't exist when you were 17) pull trucks over for inspections and send nice little letters if you run even a couple of minutes over your hours.

That's before you factor in the concentration required in driving such a large vehicle and the physical effort of loading and unloading, which is still frequently the driver's responsibility.

The drivers might not complain about their personal lives, but look at how many long-distance drivers are divorced, don't see their family too often and spend most of their time in a cab listening to the radio rather than talking to actual people. Maybe that sounds nice to you, but I quite like getting home at a reasonable time and relaxing with the wife. I certainly wouldn't trade it for getting home, going straight to bed and then leaving for work half an hour after getting up.

[ABBEY]

VOSA = PAIN IN ARSE

[jim mk2]

.

I briefly considered asking what is so great about Britain that it provokes such blind loyalty, but I honestly doubt I'd be interested enough to read whatever explanation you might offer.

It might suprise you but there are people who are patriotic and love this country. You choose where you live and it's your loss but don't slag off your own country on the way out. You've failed here which makes it your fault and not this country's.

By the way here are some "interesting" stories about the godforsaken hell-hole in Africa (a former British colony by the way) you now inhabit. Sounds like you and Tanzania deserve each other.

http://www.unicef.or...ANIA_REPORT.pdf

http://allafrica.com...1102250159.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk...africa-12126861

http://www.guardian....gainst-children

http://www.bbc.co.uk...africa-16289240

http://www.news24.co...otests-20111110

[Jeru tha Damaja]

It might suprise you but there are people who are patriotic and love this country. You choose where you live and it's your loss but don't slag off your own country on the way out. You've failed here which makes it your fault and not this country's.

By the way here are some "interesting" stories about the godforsaken hell-hole in Africa (a former British colony by the way) you now inhabit. Sounds like you and Tanzania deserve each other.

Have you been there or do you just rely on reports produced by people whose jobs would cease to exist if they didn't uncover disturbing results?

Look into how low the threshold for "abuse" is for these organisations. Half the children in Britain would probably qualify. In fact, if you take into account the way parents feed their children in the average British family, abuse is pretty prevalent.

Ask the NSPCC about how brilliantly every child in Britain is treated.

As for the protests, yeah, it happens. I believe the UK was in something of a state only last August. 300+ deaths in police custody with no convictions, police shootings occurring due to paranoia rather than any actual threat...

Female circumcision is generally a tribal thing, it doesn't tend to happen in the mostly Muslim area that I live in (of course, I'm sure you'll have an opinion on that, too).

Don't get me wrong though, I am proud of you for actually doing some research. I guess Google didn't turn up anything on me, though, so you stick with your own assumptions. The only thing I failed to do here was fit in with the pessimism that dominates British life (again, in my experience).

I only made a series of observations about Britain, I didn't call it anything akin to "a Godforsaken hell-hole". Tanzania may have been a British colony, but it was a brief period of time and with little consequence. Quite why you feel so proud about British people having roamed the world disenfranchising less advanced nations is beyond me, though.

Patriotism and nationalism are fabricated concepts, but I doubt you'll get my point and I'm not going to bother explaining.

I still don't understand why you are so enraged by my leaving when you claim to hold me in such low esteem anyway. Surely rather than trying to convince me that I was better off in Britain you should be uncorking the champagne. Or is that too foreign for you?

[jim mk2]

I still don't understand why you are so enraged by my leaving when you claim to hold me in such low esteem anyway. Surely rather than trying to convince me that I was better off in Britain you should be uncorking the champagne. Or is that too foreign for you?

If you read my post I'm not "enraged" by you leaving - just you slagging off this country of which I am extremely proud. I'm sure you'll find your Jersusalem in Tanzania or some other third world country that welcomes misfits such as yourself.

[Paul]

VOSA = PAIN IN ARSE

Only for those that break the law or take the regulations to the absolute limit

[ABBEY]

Or when they pull you in when you need to be somewhere

[Paul]

Or when they pull you in when you need to be somewhere

That's the whole point, they pull you in when the vehicle is working, not sitting around all spruced up waiting for an inspection! We regularly get pulled on the A556 near the roundabout heading into Altrincham as we use that road a lot. It's a pain but not as painful as losing the Operator's Licence!