[Archived] BRST Meeting with Supporters Direct

[SouthAussieRover]

grow a pair of willies? Goodness,

It would be something to brag about

[Tom]

Cheers for the reply mark

I do agree that it should never have been brought up in public in the first place and note that you weren't the one to do so.

I also don't think everything needs to be minuted to the last detail it's like everyone is in a state of hyper paranoia and mistrust of other fans.

[mark1875]

There should be ONE group representing the fans. Why can't the BRAG faction of a new united group organise protests, the BRSIT faction help get the share issue off the ground, the BRST section get an offical affilated trust off the ground, even the FF faction keeping contact with the club.

If you REALLY cared more about the future of BRFC than building these little Empires, you would merge under one umbrella.

I agree there should be one group representing the fans, however the group everyone (including myself) is relying on to do this is the BRST (or whatever it becomes called when they have to put the word 'society' in there). It is OK again in theory, to say the BRAG can do this and the B.R.S.I.T can do this, however if the BRST is to get everyone under this umbrella by intending to put both the BRAG and BRSIT 'on a lead' and the BRSIT share issue plan is to be silenced, how can that theory become practice?

I also don't think everything needs to be minuted to the last detail it's like everyone is in a state of hyper paranoia and mistrust of other fans.

I agree Tom, not everything can be minuted nor should it be, however when we have a meeting other groups always point out the need to minute them, which is probably why the question was asked back by people last night.

[Silittl]

Cheers for the reply mark

I do agree that it should never have been brought up in public in the first place and note that you weren't the one to do so.

I also don't think everything needs to be minuted to the last detail it's like everyone is in a state of hyper paranoia and mistrust of other fans.

Tom as usual your comments are unbiased and well thought out. I agree with everything you have said in the post quoted.

I am disappointed that such a question was posted in a public domain. What ever the reason behind it was an honest answer was provided by the individual who the post was aimed at.

I am not saying the response was right or wrong but the blame should not be put solely on Mark's toes.

[speeeeeeedie]

Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?

F*%$ off! We're the People's Front of Judea

Genuine question. Can someone educate me to what groups we have. My take is;

BRAG - Glen M, silittl, shivery

BRSIT - Dan G

Supporters Direct - Someone called Andy Neil?

Fans Forum - the folk that went to India

BRST - Someone called Duncan?

Are there more? Less? Which groups need a committee?

[AndyNeil]

I'm going to ask a question of the BRAG members on here who seem to just love putting the boot in when it suits them, but also love to play the victim/myrtron occasion. I've asked two pretty fundemental questions of BRAG committee members without ever getting a clear response, so I'm going to try a third in the hope that somebody might be able to answer, without putting a spin on it.

QUESTION: I don't have Mark Fish as a Facebook friend, so not sure how I could have asked the question directly. How else could I have tried to gauge genuine feedback?

As for people from BRAG requesting me as a Facebook friend (not just you Simon) when all you seem to try and do is undermine the FF and the BRST is laughable..... while I'm at it I'll post the other two questions I've never had an answer to:

(1) How many individual people vote in the election (not the nomination process) to elect the BRAG committee? The reason for asking is, from the graph published on the BRAG website which is no longer there, it isn't clear at all - and from a group that claims to be 'for the fans, by the fans' and also claims to be clear, tranparent, etc.

(2) If half the people say "the FF don't represent me" and half the people say "the FF should be representing the views of the fansbase" which side of the fence do you sit on? The reason for asking is that Members of the BRAG committee have been quick to point out that had we done our job in Pune, there would have been no need for BRAG - although how we could have done our job properly when Glen Mullan claimed boys had gone to do the job of men, I'm not quite sure.

I await a clear response without spin, chiche or indeed untruths...

[Ricky]

I'm missing the 'joke' in the recording bit. Just seems like you were caught and and now you're trying to backtrack, but that's just my opinion obviously.

Nobody is coming out of these petty squables looking good. You're all actually making Venkys look like the best bloody option at the moment!

I can't imagine the disaster if one of you lot actually held a post of responsibility in running the club!!!

[PAFELL]

This is not the first time BRAG have used the "it's a joke" response to answer criticism. It is also not the first time BRAG has attempted to discredit others or directly pressurise critical individuals into silence.

One should look very carefully at the activity here, it's the only democratically elected dictatorship I know.

As for the recent behaviour of BRAG members it appears the organisation preaches one approach while practising another.

+1

[BPF]

I give my full support to the group that isn't the one made up of the toothless, no brain fools I witnessed on the Darwen End during the Newcastle game.

If a fan buy out is to work then it needs to be carried out by qualified people that have proven success within business. This of course needs to be backed up with a plan of who to hire into the club that has an understanding of the football business model. After the club has been purchased, who is going to stump up the cash to pay up the contracts of the Venkys hired staff? I don't want to sound harsh here but the club being ran by a collection of well meaning manual workers isn't going to benefit the club in any other way than keeping the boardroom warm.

[PAFELL]

I'm missing the 'joke' in the recording bit. Just seems like you were caught and and now you're trying to backtrack, but that's just my opinion obviously.

Nobody is coming out of these petty squables looking good. You're all actually making Venkys look like the best bloody option at the moment!

I can't imagine the disaster if one of you lot actually held a post of responsibility in running the club!!!

Why joke about such a matter in the first place. When there are all the various little empires about, why put out anything that could be seen to be untrustworthy in the first place - joke or no joke.

It appears to me that BRAG want to be the number one and if they can't, then they are just going it alone.

But at the moment all the groups are web based. Maybe about 500 to 600 folk come on here - what about the other 15 odd thousand don't they have a say in things. I suggest most of those 15 odd thousand supporters, would not take any notice of any of these groups at the moment.

I give my full support to the group that isn't the one made up of the toothless, no brain fools I witnessed on the Darwen End during the Newcastle game.

If a fan buy out is to work then it needs to be carried out by qualified people that have proven success within business. This of course needs to be backed up with a plan of who to hire into the club that has an understanding of the football business model. After the club has been purchased, who is going to stump up the cash to pay up the contracts of the Venkys hired staff? I don't want to sound harsh here but the club being ran by a collection of well meaning manual workers isn't going to benefit the club in any other way than keeping the boardroom warm.

Well the evidence for that is plain to see just on here. Though Swansea did do it, but even that was only a 20% buy out of the club that was rock bottom at the time.

[Silittl]

I'm going to ask a question of the BRAG members on here who seem to just love putting the boot in when it suits them, but also love to play the victim/myrtron occasion. I've asked two pretty fundemental questions of BRAG committee members without ever getting a clear response, so I'm going to try a third in the hope that somebody might be able to answer, without putting a spin on it.

QUESTION: I don't have Mark Fish as a Facebook friend, so not sure how I could have asked the question directly. How else could I have tried to gauge genuine feedback?

As for people from BRAG requesting me as a Facebook friend (not just you Simon) when all you seem to try and do is undermine the FF and the BRST is laughable..... while I'm at it I'll post the other two questions I've never had an answer to:

(1) How many individual people vote in the election (not the nomination process) to elect the BRAG committee? The reason for asking is, from the graph published on the BRAG website which is no longer there, it isn't clear at all - and from a group that claims to be 'for the fans, by the fans' and also claims to be clear, tranparent, etc.

(2) If half the people say "the FF don't represent me" and half the people say "the FF should be representing the views of the fansbase" which side of the fence do you sit on? The reason for asking is that Members of the BRAG committee have been quick to point out that had we done our job in Pune, there would have been no need for BRAG - although how we could have done our job properly when Glen Mullan claimed boys had gone to do the job of men, I'm not quite sure.

I await a clear response without spin, chiche or indeed untruths...

Andy firstly I added you as friend for two reasons. One is so any issue or discussion we had personally could be done in private. Whilst we may have differences of opinion I do class you as a friend from years back. Yes I have been guilty of causing some unnecessary arguments in the past. However I am a man of my word and intend to ensure we close the divide. I have publically apologised in the time to bite the bullet thread I started.

Finally whatever has been posted by Mark is personal opinion of the meeting.

The rest I assure I will provide a full and proper response once I'm back up north and have time to get the answers to your questions.

[mark1875]

I'm missing the 'joke' in the recording bit. Just seems like you were caught and and now you're trying to backtrack, but that's just my opinion obviously.

I am not backtracking on anything, i was asked to explain it and i have done so but since i keep being asked to i will do so again.

I was asked a question publicly, i gave an honest answer to the question. Later on Glen made a comment and i replied in a jokey manner to him which he understood. No backtracking, it is as plain as it was at the start.

QUESTION: I don't have Mark Fish as a Facebook friend, so not sure how I could have asked the question directly. How else could I have tried to gauge genuine feedback?

That is ridiculous, you do not need to be my friend on Facebook to message me, i could have been messaged on here, you could have emailed me via the action group site. I am far from uncontactable, you chose to post the question in the public domain to make it known i had been, it was provocative in the manner it was asked. It was made to look that i had an agenda for attending the meeting in a method which would guarantee people in the action group would see it. I then explained both parts of your question, both why i was there and what i personally felt about it. If i am asked a question, i will answer it honestly, if you do not like that answer then i cannot help that.

As for people from BRAG requesting me as a Facebook friend (not just you Simon) when all you seem to try and do is undermine the FF and the BRST is laughable..... while I'm at it I'll post the other two questions I've never had an answer to:

Just for the record, i never have requested

(1) How many individual people vote in the election (not the nomination process) to elect the BRAG committee? The reason for asking is, from the graph published on the BRAG website which is no longer there, it isn't clear at all - and from a group that claims to be 'for the fans, by the fans' and also claims to be clear, tranparent, etc.

This question was not ignored, Simon answered it when it was first asked and he is sorting it. For someone who never bothered when the vote was in progress you are overly interested now.

(2) If half the people say "the FF don't represent me" and half the people say "the FF should be representing the views of the fansbase" which side of the fence do you sit on? The reason for asking is that Members of the BRAG committee have been quick to point out that had we done our job in Pune, there would have been no need for BRAG - although how we could have done our job properly when Glen Mullan claimed boys had gone to do the job of men, I'm not quite sure.

I will admit i knew very little of the Fans Forum until the India trip, i had regularly read your minutes and to me it appeared you dealt with the mundane jobs, which is fair play to you all because someone needs to do it. I had noticed a recurring pattern with the minutes which always left with a question to be answered but was never answered in the next set of minutes. That is about the extent of what i knew.

Obviously you all became topic of great discussion when the Pune trip was made public, my opinions on here at that time where for you all to be careful regarding being used as pawns in a PR exercise and that you should have structured a meeting into the trip prior to you going, something i still stand by today. It was replied to by the group that you would 'probably' hold off the record discussions with the owners and my opinion on this was that you should speak on behalf of the majority of the fans regarding the manager and take full advantage of this unique opportunity, again something i believe to this day was needed and indeed believe to have happened.

Prior to you going i said you should speak up on behalf of the fans you are representing, your response was you are not representing anybody but yourself on the trip, my thoughts on this were that it was a pathetic response, since you was invited out to Pune as a Blackburn Rovers supporter and not because of who you was. It was made clear by you at that point that you were not representing the fans, however i felt you should. Again this is something i still believe.

So to your question, both of the two statements are correct for me! "the FF should be representing the views of the fanbase" for the simple reason the committee of the fans forum are there for the fans, unless i am interpreting that wrong?

"the FF don't represent me" is something else i agree with because whilst i think you should be doing so, i do not believe you are. As far as those mundane tasks go, i believe you do a great job and i tip my hat off to all of you but when it comes to the 'on the pitch' side of things, you publicly announcing you are crossing your fingers and praying at home that Venkys wake up and offer you another meeting, is certainly not in my beliefs of what is going to make things happen.

I await a clear response without spin, chiche or indeed untruths...

Ha Ha Ha that certainly tickled me, something about a pot and a kettle springs to mind

[thenodrog]

It would be something to brag about

Just having one's got me into more than enough bother in the past.

btw This stuff is all just another instance of those bald men still fighting over that comb isn't it?

[Stuart]

btw This ###### is just another instance of those bald men still fighting over a comb.

You really like that one, don't you.

[stuwilky]

Are you associated with BRAG? Who is Simon Littler? Is he associated with BRAG?

Why do we need so many posts slagging off so many people? Is it achieving anything?

No?

[PAFELL]

I am not backtracking on anything, i was asked to explain it and i have done so but since i keep being asked to i will do so again.

I was asked a question publicly, i gave an honest answer to the question. Later on Glen made a comment and i replied in a jokey manner to him which he understood. No backtracking, it is as plain as it was at the start.

[mark1875]

Are you associated with BRAG? Who is Simon Littler? Is he associated with BRAG?

Why do we need so many posts slagging off so many people? Is it achieving anything?

No?

Sorry i didn't mean to be ignorant.

Yes i am, Simon littler is too and has been since almost the beginning

I understand and do actually agree that there are too many posts slagging others off! However it is not one sided as much as people like to make out.

It does not achieve anything however, i still maintain that if i am provoked into giving my opinion on something in the public domain then i will do so and i won't limit that opinion to make people happy.

I would of (like i intended) let the meeting pass with no comment, however once i was provoked into speaking out then i replied with my opinion, as requested and i stand by that.

[Scutdog]

Just been reading through the last 3 pages and I think it is clear that lots of people are getting a bit too excited by there so called positions of power in whichever action group etc... they have set up.

Do you not realise that the majority of fans don't go on messageboards! Winning an argument on a messageboard means absolutely nothing!

God help BRFC if BRAG or whoever were actually in charge, unprofessional is an understatement. You are all just coming across as a laughing stock, who would have thought we had so many egotistictical fans.

What we need is ONE fans group, because at the moment this petty squabbling is completely counter productive.

[SAS]

Dear me, there goes the unity.....

This situation with the fan groups is almost as embarrassing as venkys replies to questions...

[Roost]

The joke was a comment in reply to Glen, which he was well aware of as i had already spoken to him, i had no reason to record it on my phone, like i said i wasn't even going to pass comment on the meeting at all until the attempt to cause a scene by bringing it up in public give me no alternative but to share my feelings on the meeting with the group.

The 'let's work together' attitude is fine in theory and i attended the meeting to find out what the trusts intentions where and the progress and plans it had made over the last 18 months, i was personally disappointed to find this was practically nothing, that said working together could have still been an option in my mind and Duncan was aware of my thoughts on the matter.

If working together is to consist of the Action Group (the group who has led from the front whilst our club is being ripped apart) "being placed on a lead" then it will categorically not be happening

Oh dear, how embarrassing.

[Andy]

Just been reading through the last 3 pages and I think it is clear that lots of people are getting a bit too excited by there so called positions of power in whichever action group etc... they have set up.

Do you not realise that the majority of fans don't go on messageboards! Winning an argument on a messageboard means absolutely nothing!

God help BRFC if BRAG or whoever were actually in charge, unprofessional is an understatement. You are all just coming across as a laughing stock, who would have thought we had so many egotistictical fans.

What we need is ONE fans group, because at the moment this petty squabbling is completely counter productive.

Complete agree on all aspects.

[bob fleming]

Do you not realise that the majority of fans don't go on messageboards!

Just on that point alone, the lads I go to the match with, if I was to mention BRAG, BRST, BRSiT, FF (I think that's all) to them at the match tomorrow, they'll not have a clue. They'll probably mutter something about "on that messageboard" and that'll be the end of it. I'll not even try and explain.

As things stand all the aforementioned are pissin in the wind and until you can unite and come up with a two sentence (max) sound bite, objective, or even an elevator pitch, then IMO, then the wind is going to win. As are Venkys and Kean.

Whilst being critical I do need to add that the groups mentioned are all trying to do something, whereas I am not, and I am extremely grateful. You are all Rovers fans. Please stop trying to trip each other up, get round a table, thrash out your differences and get a plan together. But most importantly stop alienating the wider BRFC fan base and turning people off.

[philipl]

Just on that point alone, the lads I go to the match with, if I was to mention BRAG, BRST, BRSiT, FF (I think that's all) to them at the match tomorrow, they'll not have a clue. They'll probably mutter something about "on that messageboard" and that'll be the end of it. I'll not even try and explain.

As things stand all the aforementioned are pissin in the wind and until you can unite and come up with a two sentence (max) sound bite, objective, or even an elevator pitch, then IMO, then the wind is going to win. As are Venkys and Kean.

Whilst being critical I do need to add that the groups mentioned are all trying to do something, whereas I am not, and I am extremely grateful. You are all Rovers fans. Please stop trying to trip each other up, get round a table, thrash out your differences and get a plan together. But most importantly stop alienating the wider BRFC fan base and turning people off.

Totaly agree- Please do stop the bitching and let's try positively to help each other in these grim times.

[stuwilky]

Sorry i didn't mean to be ignorant.

Yes i am, Simon littler is too and has been since almost the beginning

I understand and do actually agree that there are too many posts slagging others off! However it is not one sided as much as people like to make out.

There are way too many, so why doesnt it stop? Its got boring.

It does not achieve anything however, i still maintain that if i am provoked into giving my opinion on something in the public domain then i will do so and i won't limit that opinion to make people happy.

I would of (like i intended) let the meeting pass with no comment, however once i was provoked into speaking out then i replied with my opinion, as requested and i stand by that.

Actually it does achieve things. It discredits everybody involves, and those who arent. It discredits yourself and your own group especially.

bob said what I think far more eloquantly, suffice to say Im not getting involved in any of these groups, I have better things to do than bitch and moan about others. If people are trying to achieve something, time wasted slagging people off is less time working towards your goal.

[thenodrog]

Totaly agree- Please do stop the bitching and let's try positively to help each other in these grim times.

5 minutes of fame seems pretty compelling for some Philip.

I'd think more of one group if they went and met the Portsmouth Supporters Trust. They are 12 months experience ahead of us.