[Archived] Wolves V Rovers Preview

[Mattyblue]

You have to say it is. If he'd given him a longer deal we wouldn't be in this situation with Hoillet this summer.

Is it hell, Kean has been manager 15 months, he has played him every week, they have supposedly been in talks for most of his tenure.

[Stuart]

You have to say it is. If he'd given him a longer deal we wouldn't be in this situation with Hoillet this summer.

Genius. Hoilett is probably the single positive thing that has come out of Kean's reign, and it's used as a stick to beat Sam with. Some people will never get it.

Although he has been poor in recent weeks, he may be starting to come good. I can only hope that he's putting himself in the shop window in the last 10 games and can put in some more match winning performances.

Let's stay up for now and worry about another PL season under Venkean - if it happens. Despite everything we all know/fear, it'll still be better than the worry if we are relegated.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Sure, Pompey might have a few stragglers, but for the most part the stupid-earners have gone.

And even so, that only proves my point. Pompey are an exception.

Back on topic, call me a cynic, but I wonder if the growing campaign for more black managers will affect Wolves decision to back Terry Connor or not?

I think he could be on his way. Look at the MOTD footage were he emerges from the tunnel before the kick-off, he looks extremely nervous. Say what you want about Kean but he always gives the impression of calmness on the touchline.

[Hanks]

You have to say it is. If he'd given him a longer deal we wouldn't be in this situation with Hoillet this summer.

I don't think Hoillet and his father have had any other intention then to get to the situation were they were out of contract at the end of the season thus maximizing his earning potential.

[Majiball]

Junior had almost 2 years left to go when Venky's came in, yes it would have been nice to have secured him for longer back then, but. Even then Sam had to go to extreme lengths to get him tied down for 3 years, what other players has it taken trips abroad by the manager to seal the deal? Junior wasn't the easiest to deal with back then and he most likely hasn't been since then either. At the end of the day if the owners had come in and not spouted rubbish like champions league and Ronnie, ruining the club and setting us back years, then he may well be more amicable. He obviously sees Rovers as a stepping stone and has done for a while. His dad's his agent and he'll be looking out for his son and a free transfer means more money for Junior.

[blueboy3333]

The weight of unreasonable expectation as modern day spoon fed shallow thinking 'fans' replace knowledgeable supporters is something that dogs most clubs today. I blame amongst other things Sky, Prem league, Champions League, MoTD, the press... and our education system. Reallity is a stranger to all.

A bit patronising that. So because Newcastle and WHU fans are bored out of their tiny minds watching the horrendous football Fat Sam serves up it makes them 'shallow'? Maybe you're the shallow one, putting Sky TV money, the Premiership 'brand' and win-at-all-costs percentages football in front of enjoying a decent game. I too blame Sky, The Prem etc, but not for the same reasons you do And if you're going to blame the education system at least spell 'reality' correctly

[A cup of beans]

He obviously sees Rovers as a stepping stone and has done for a while. His dad's his agent and he'll be looking out for his son and a free transfer means more money for Junior.

100% right. the writing has been on the wall for nearly 12 months.

junior was fantastic yesterday, unplayable. i have to ask where has that form been all season ? he's looked like he couldnt care less for most of it and his end product has been woeful!

kean's comments of " putting everything behind us" smacked of desperation and trying to ride on the fans' euphoria.

he will never be accepted!

wonderful day yesterday. our support was outstanding. we dictated the game and never looked in danger. we danced around them at times.

we have survival in our hands now! COYB!

[PLJPB]

You have to say it is. If he'd given him a longer deal we wouldn't be in this situation with Hoillet this summer.

So Kean delaying contract talks middle of last season has nothing to do with it?

[Stuart]

I think he could be on his way. Look at the MOTD footage were he emerges from the tunnel before the kick-off, he looks extremely nervous. Say what you want about Kean but he always gives the impression of calmness on the touchline.

Connor seems a like a genuine guy; I definitely feel sorry for him. It appears obvious that he's there because nobody else would step in. Although I expect a lot of non-Rovers fans probably think the same about Kean.

Funny, watching Kean on the touchline, he always gives me the impression of cluelessness.

[Mattyblue]

A bit patronising that. So because Newcastle and WHU fans are bored out of their tiny minds watching the horrendous football Fat Sam serves up it makes them 'shallow'? Maybe you're the shallow one, putting Sky TV money, the Premiership 'brand' and win-at-all-costs percentages football in front of enjoying a decent game. I too blame Sky, The Prem etc, but not for the same reasons you do And if you're going to blame the education system at least spell 'reality' correctly

Mid table security was boring, wasn't it?

[Stuart]

Mid table security was boring, wasn't it?

It's the old adage: "you don't know what you've got til it's gone". Although some still haven't had the lightbulb moment yet.

It's also be said a million times but clearly needs restating whether people like it (or him) or not Allardyce was the perfect fit for our club.

Some people see those wanting relegation from the PL- as a last resort to getting rid of Venkys (and therefore Kean) - as not being proper fans or stupid even.

Yet there are people who even now, after everything, are still glad to see the back of Big Sam.

Contradictory, ironic, call it what you will, but Allardyce was good for our club, Venkean aren't.

People can hide behind the easy-pour, ready-to-drink, red-top-sports-journalistic peddling of the hoofball myth but it really is that simple.

[McClarky]

Funny how when at last the revolutionary 4-4-2 system is tried we win a game and look solid for the first time this season. You get proper wide men, a solid midfield, support for the striker and everyone knows their jobs in that formation...genius. Just watched the match now and we did look excellent against a really poor team. I liked the combination of the Olssons especially and Hoilett was superb as a support striker.

Hope we don't make wholesale changes for the next game, centre midfiled is the only area I would consider changing. Possibly push Lowe in their if Orr is fir but I would be tempted to leave things as they are after a confidence booster like that.

[gumboots]

Is it ok then to say I wanted rid of allardyce too but only if we had already identified someone else who was willing to come and was likely to be able to do as good a job without being obnoxious. I didn't call for allardyce's head despite the fact that I couldn't stand the sight of him, but when he was sacked i wasn't too upset other than about the way it was done because I hoped for better or if that wasn't possible as good but more likeable. Because that's how I felt. I never wanted him, didn't enjoy watching much of the play we saw under him, but generally defended him to other fans by saying that at least we were winning and that was a feeling I liked. I accepted that he was probably the kind of person we needed in charge even whilst not liking him or the vast majority of the football served up under him. I felt as sick watching his interviews as I do watching Kean's but I put up with it for the success. with Kean we get rubbish interviews, a revoltingly smarmy manager and no success. It's that word success, however you measure it, that was the difference.

[Mattyblue]

Is it ok then to say I wanted rid of allardyce too but only if we had already identified someone else who was willing to come and was likely to be able to do as good a job without being obnoxious. I didn't call for allardyce's head despite the fact that I couldn't stand the sight of him, but when he was sacked i wasn't too upset other than about the way it was done because I hoped for better or if that wasn't possible as good but more likeable. Because that's how I felt. I never wanted him, didn't enjoy watching much of the play we saw under him, but generally defended him to other fans by saying that at least we were winning and that was a feeling I liked. I accepted that he was probably the kind of person we needed in charge even whilst not liking him or the vast majority of the football served up under him. I felt as sick watching his interviews as I do watching Kean's but I put up with it for the success. with Kean we get rubbish interviews, a revoltingly smarmy manager and no success. It's that word success, however you measure it, that was the difference.

End of the day, it didn't matter that some of our fans didn't like the bloke, JW did and the club was secure as a result.

ps you felt as sick listenting to Sam as kean? On what possible grounds?!?

[blueboy3333]

It's the old adage: "you don't know what you've got til it's gone". Although some still haven't had the lightbulb moment yet.

It's also be said a million times but clearly needs restating whether people like it (or him) or not Allardyce was the perfect fit for our club.

Some people see those wanting relegation from the PL- as a last resort to getting rid of Venkys (and therefore Kean) - as not being proper fans or stupid even.

Yet there are people who even now, after everything, are still glad to see the back of Big Sam.

Contradictory, ironic, call it what you will, but Allardyce was good for our club, Venkean aren't.

People can hide behind the easy-pour, ready-to-drink, red-top-sports-journalistic peddling of the hoofball myth but it really is that simple.

You're making the classic mistake of thinking that people who were glad to see the back of SA are happy with what we have now. You'll have that lightbulb moment one day. FWIW, i don't read any red top. More of a Guardian man myself. One of their journalists (Daviv Conn i think his name is) has been highly critical of the Anderson/Kean/Venky's shambles and is one of the few journalists who see the situation for what it is. As for SA, he was aarogant, ignorant and resorted to having a dig at the fans when they saw through his bluff, bluster and dreadful football. He's recently had a dig at the Hammers fans along the lines of 'i'm the expert' like he did here. I'm delighted he's gone to another so-called big club so he can achieve his ultimate destiny of managing either Barca or R Madrid His words, not mine!

[Mattyblue]

You're making the classic mistake of thinking that people who were glad to see the back of SA are happy with what we have now. You'll have that lightbulb moment one day. FWIW, i don't read any red top. More of a Guardian man myself. One of their journalists (Daviv Conn i think his name is) has been highly critical of the Anderson/Kean/Venky's shambles and is one of the few journalists who see the situation for what it is. As for SA, he was aarogant, ignorant and resorted to having a dig at the fans when they saw through his bluff, bluster and dreadful football. He's recently had a dig at the Hammers fans along the lines of 'i'm the expert' like he did here. I'm delighted he's gone to another so-called big club so he can achieve his ultimate destiny of managing either Barca or R Madrid His words, not mine!

Was his reign a success? Yes or no.

[joey_big_nose]

Junior had almost 2 years left to go when Venky's came in, yes it would have been nice to have secured him for longer back then, but. Even then Sam had to go to extreme lengths to get him tied down for 3 years, what other players has it taken trips abroad by the manager to seal the deal? Junior wasn't the easiest to deal with back then and he most likely hasn't been since then either. At the end of the day if the owners had come in and not spouted rubbish like champions league and Ronnie, ruining the club and setting us back years, then he may well be more amicable. He obviously sees Rovers as a stepping stone and has done for a while. His dad's his agent and he'll be looking out for his son and a free transfer means more money for Junior.

I think it is naive to think we would have any chance of keeping him irrespective of the manager. He is clearly a special player and his dad has been angling to get him to a 'big club' for years. It has never seemed like he is here for the long term.

The only way I could see him staying is if we were challenging for Europe. Which I doubt we would have been doing with Sam as much as we are not with Kean. There has been so little investment.

He's a gonner but I don't place the blame at any manager/board member really - it is Hoilett and his Dad who want the move. As soon as he started putting in top drawer perfromances he was always likely to be off.

[imy9]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/10/30/revealed-official-english-football-wage-figures-for-the-past-25-years-301002/

Average wage is just over 20k a week in the pl at the moment and that includes the top 5 who collectively spend close to or above 500 million a year on wages. So Rovers having a first team squad of players on 40k and above is not sustainable and is too high IMO.

I would say a half dozen players on that and the rest need to be on considerably less, of no new investment is coming.

[blueboy3333]

Mid table security was boring, wasn't it?

The 'football' was yes, tedious in the extreme. I didn't mention league positions.

[joey_big_nose]

It's no use crying over spilt milk now but Allardyce should have secured Hoillet to a longer contract when he was here. However he didn't really fit into the Big Sam style of play, and was only a peripheral figure back then.

Eh?! Fair enough he was not a typical Sam player and not a regular but Sam was extremely aware of his talent - hence why he travelled to Canada several times to get him to sign! That is not standard behaviour for a youth player....!

That Hoilett did not sign a long term deal was not, imo, due to any lack of trying by Sam, JW, Kean or Venky's. Everyone was plainly aware he is a special player who would either go on to be a key performer for the club or a big sale. That he did not sign was down to a canny approach to have control over his future and earnings worked out between him and his dad. And to be honest if you look at it neutrally they have played a blinder. He's going to make a fortune.

[Stuart]

Is it ok then to say I wanted rid of allardyce too but only if we had already identified someone else who was willing to come and was likely to be able to do as good a job without being obnoxious. I didn't call for allardyce's head despite the fact that I couldn't stand the sight of him, but when he was sacked i wasn't too upset other than about the way it was done because I hoped for better or if that wasn't possible as good but more likeable. Because that's how I felt. I never wanted him, didn't enjoy watching much of the play we saw under him, but generally defended him to other fans by saying that at least we were winning and that was a feeling I liked. I accepted that he was probably the kind of person we needed in charge even whilst not liking him or the vast majority of the football served up under him. I felt as sick watching his interviews as I do watching Kean's but I put up with it for the success. with Kean we get rubbish interviews, a revoltingly smarmy manager and no success. It's that word success, however you measure it, that was the difference.

Very honest. I just think that likeability comes third after consistent results and grudging respect.

I think I posted exactly that earlier today.

With the personnel we had and the budget available Sam got the best for our budget. Not quite as good as Hughes but definitely second best, and on a lower budget. I think he made a faux pas with Kalinic (for his style of play) but aside from that got the best out of his team.

Comfortably avoided relegation and made a cup semi and 10th the year after. It doesn't, and is unlikely to ever again, get much better than that. And without someone coming in and spending a fortune that's our zenith.

I fear we haven't yet reached our nadir...

[thenodrog]

I thought when the Walkers were in charge you were of the view that paying transfer fees was a thing of the past and that the way forward was to to loan contracted players or sign out of contract players for free on short term twelve month deals?

I still do.... and it is Simon. Recent lack of transfer window activity confirms this to be so. With a few exceptions football is being dragged kicking and screaming to it's senses. There will of course be casualties as the cull of football clubs progresses.

Main problem I have with the new owners is their motives and their decision making.

Swansea?

Excellent current example. Exception that proves the rule maybe?

Time will tell if Swansea can keep it up next season now the element of suprise has gone.

I think Swansea will be OK this season, but next season ? As you say they could be a prime candidate unless they can seriously strengthen the side. The other teams work out your system and how to counteract it.

Just bomb em like we did. Big Sam em.

They have two main weaknesses, they are the smallest team I can recall and they don't have a clinical strike force.

Caveat emptor - remember Kevin Davies and the superb individual goals we bought him on the strength of!

Bad management. We paid too much for him and tried to put a square peg in a round hole.

Allardyce identified his strengths and developed him into a top player.

[thenodrog]

Wrong, chaddy.

£40k+ is the going rate in this league. If we want to compete in the PL, we have to pay PL wages. Simple as that. The only problem is we have a habit of paying PL wages to players who aren't PL quality.

Agreed. Pay so often reflects club policy rather than a reflection of ability. Top players like Hoilett and Samba will always have to be paid big money but lesser talents should be paid much less than they currently are. We should have offered the likes of Andrews and Roberts no more than 5k pw (and Dunny should be paid by the minute). If they then want to go then go, their sort are ten a penny.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Parsonblue's match report is published to the front page here.

[blueboy3333]

Was his reign a success? Yes or no.

Ask a ridiculously simplistic question and then demand a yes or no answer!? How to stifle debate the MattyBlue way!! I'll have a go though:

The football was awful,his sole tactic was to kill the game and try and score from a set-piece. We got hammered regularly away from home and hardly ever won, but we narrowly beat some of the mid-table teams at home and most of the relegation fodder. We rarely scored more than 1 goal and we went about 15 games without winning a league game at one point. Not as good as hughes but better than kean. That said we'd have never won at O/T with SA!

His attitude was dreadful. He thought he was too good for little old Blackburn. When he got sacked he said he wanted to leave anyway the summer before.

Transfer record was not a patch on Hughes' yet he probably spent more money. Kalinic cost the same as Benni Mc, Nelsen. Samba, Ollson, Bentley and Roque combined. The Yak is probably a better signing than any SA made . The Zonz and Givet were very good but the rest were average at best. Salgado was good for 6 months and was on ridiculous money. same with EHD. Keans signings have been equally poor.

Now to your favourite, league positions!! Much better than Kean but not as good as Hughes. The wage budget for SA and Hughes was much higher than it is now though.

It would be nice to get rid of Kean and Venkys, for the fans to own the club with a few wealthy backers. and to get a manager in that unites the fans. Thats my dream