[Archived] Wolves V Rovers Preview

[thenodrog]

Problem is/was that you need to pay competitive wages to players who are either on the up or at or near their peak. Not those who are very much on the decline.

This old FOC potato again Simon. Wages frequently reflect the initial cost of the player rather than his ability. First reared it's ugly head years ago when Real Madrid paid the very average Steve Macmanaman 65k pw simply cos he walked out of Lpool for nothing. Sol Campbell / Spurs / Arsenal was another example of players and their agents exploiting the Bosman ruling before football had fully absorbed the imoplications

Kean's quote on Hoilett from The Observer's match report:

As if we have any chance? The club bungled getting him renewed (in spite of Kean's laughable assurances) but now we're being spun the line that there's a chance we could re-sign a player we couldn't secure first time around.

Hoilett, like Samba before him, wants out of the asylum. Can't say I blame him.

Especially after Alan Hansen publically put him in the shop window on MoTD.

You have to say it is. If he'd given him a longer deal we wouldn't be in this situation with Hoillet this summer.

I don't think from memory that Hoilett would have accepted a longer deal.

[thenodrog]

A bit patronising that. So because Newcastle and WHU fans are bored out of their tiny minds watching the horrendous football Fat Sam serves up it makes them 'shallow'?

Quite an accurate generalisation of the supporters of those two clubs I thought. They both think they are a cut above imo.

100% right. the writing has been on the wall for nearly 12 months.

junior was fantastic yesterday, unplayable. i have to ask where has that form been all season ? he's looked like he couldnt care less for most of it and his end product has been woeful!

Kean played him in his best position for once.

[thenodrog]

Is it ok then to say I wanted rid of allardyce too but only if we had already identified someone else who was willing to come and was likely to be able to do as good a job without being obnoxious. I didn't call for allardyce's head despite the fact that I couldn't stand the sight of him, but when he was sacked i wasn't too upset other than about the way it was done because I hoped for better or if that wasn't possible as good but more likeable. Because that's how I felt. I never wanted him, didn't enjoy watching much of the play we saw under him, but generally defended him to other fans by saying that at least we were winning and that was a feeling I liked. I accepted that he was probably the kind of person we needed in charge even whilst not liking him or the vast majority of the football served up under him. I felt as sick watching his interviews as I do watching Kean's but I put up with it for the success. with Kean we get rubbish interviews, a revoltingly smarmy manager and no success. It's that word success, however you measure it, that was the difference.

As Mr Spock would say..... 'Illogical'.

Likeable? A completely irrelevent requirement. How many Prem managers would you describe as likeable?

[Amo]

Sam's legacy has been helped by the fact Venky's have done just about everything possible to destabilize the club.

Had they brought in an O'Neil, Curbishley, Jol, or heck, even a Bruce, I doubt Drog & co would still be carrying a torch.

[thenodrog]

Sam's legacy has been helped by the fact Venky's have done just about everything possible to destabilize the club.

Had they brought in an O'Neil, Curbishley, Jol, or heck, even a Bruce, I doubt Drog & co would still be carrying a torch.

Personally I don't think any of those are better options for us than Allardyce but that matters little.... What is more important is 'likeability'.

[Mattyblue]

Ask a ridiculously simplistic question and then demand a yes or no answer!? How to stifle debate the MattyBlue way!! I'll have a go though:

The football was awful,his sole tactic was to kill the game and try and score from a set-piece. We got hammered regularly away from home and hardly ever won, but we narrowly beat some of the mid-table teams at home and most of the relegation fodder. We rarely scored more than 1 goal and we went about 15 games without winning a league game at one point. Not as good as hughes but better than kean. That said we'd have never won at O/T with SA!

His attitude was dreadful. He thought he was too good for little old Blackburn. When he got sacked he said he wanted to leave anyway the summer before.

Transfer record was not a patch on Hughes' yet he probably spent more money. Kalinic cost the same as Benni Mc, Nelsen. Samba, Ollson, Bentley and Roque combined. The Yak is probably a better signing than any SA made . The Zonz and Givet were very good but the rest were average at best. Salgado was good for 6 months and was on ridiculous money. same with EHD. Keans signings have been equally poor.

Now to your favourite, league positions!! Much better than Kean but not as good as Hughes. The wage budget for SA and Hughes was much higher than it is now though.

It would be nice to get rid of Kean and Venkys, for the fans to own the club with a few wealthy backers. and to get a manager in that unites the fans. Thats my dream

So, we hardly lost a game at home, and that's a negaitve? My favourite thing is ya know, how well we actually do in the competion we play in and not diversions like 'well he said he was an Expert' 'yeah well he said he could manange Real Madrid'.

If the signings were crap, football was crap and his attitude was crap, how did we do so well?

Yeah, yeah I've sidetracked another thread with Samuel talk, but I just marvel that I'm still reading such one eyed posts after all this time.

If only the mighty Martin Jol had rode in on his charger and Venky's had spent the £50million they promised.

[Al]

I think he could be on his way. Look at the MOTD footage were he emerges from the tunnel before the kick-off, he looks extremely nervous. Say what you want about Kean but he always gives the impression of calmness on the touchline.

If you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs you probably have not grasped the desperation of the situation.

[sharpysharps]

I think he could be on his way. Look at the MOTD footage were he emerges from the tunnel before the kick-off, he looks extremely nervous. Say what you want about Kean but he always gives the impression of calmness on the touchline.

Seems like a decent, genuine bloke to me to have served under a number of managers at a club he clearly loves, but its hardly the scenario you would want to step into your first job as a football manager. No transfer window, bunch of pretty poor footballers and a captain who turns up drunk to training.

Anyway regarding the game, from what i've seen it looked like bar maybe 1 chance at 0-0, Wolves only started to create chances after they went 2-0 down. Seemed like Kean got it right more or less. Junior needs to put a few more performances in of that ilk and we should survive that that kind of attacking influence alongside Yakubu.

First time this season i've actually felt like we might stay up, simply based on the fact Wolves are on a downward spiral, QPR have a disasterous run-in and Wigan will just come up short IMO. Rovers and Bolton look like they might scrape clear.

[Amo]

If you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs you probably have not grasped the desperation of the situation.

Or you know your job isn't under threat?

[Exiled in Toronto]

A proficient win in a crucial game where everyone seemed well up for it, in complete contrast to Wolves

Not out of the woods yet but I was very heartened by yesterday

[gumboots]

As Mr Spock would say..... 'Illogical'.

Likeable? A completely irrelevent requirement. How many Prem managers would you describe as likeable?

And who ever said that things like this had to be logical? Likeable is not the number one priority and I think if you read my post properly you'll see I said that I liked the success more than other things but all things being equal it does help if you like your manager as well. Most of the time I liked Souness even when disagreeing with him; I liked Hughes when he was here although he seems to have let his arrogant side take over rather too much recently. I don't dislike lambert at wolves, Rodgers at Swansea, martinez, mostly don't dislike Kenny or Moyes though they annoy me at times and could list a few others too. I've told you before that Allardyce makes my flesh creep along with O'Neill but I'd have killed for O'Neill to take our job before he went to Sunderland.

[RevidgeBlue]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/10/30/revealed-official-english-football-wage-figures-for-the-past-25-years-301002/

Average wage is just over 20k a week in the pl at the moment and that includes the top 5 who collectively spend close to or above 500 million a year on wages.

It does say that that average figure of 1.162m is basic pay before bonuses etc which typically amount to 50-100% on top so most established Premier League Clubs will be paying their players considerably more than 20kp.w.

John Williams made a throwaway comment to the Fans Forum about 3-4 years ago that "Yesterday's 20k p.w. is now £30k" (Meaning the standard sort of wage that a decent but not exceptional PL footballer would expect)

I'd imagine that level of expectation is still as high notwithstanding increasing levels of realism that seem to be trickling down as one club after another runs into difficulty.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Parsonblue's match report is published to the front page here.

Thanks for that Parson. What a change to be able to report on a good performance.

[jim mk2]

It's no use crying over spilt milk now but Allardyce should have secured Hoillet to a longer contract when he was here. However he didn't really fit into the Big Sam style of play, and was only a peripheral figure back then.

Just spotted this rubbish from a few hours ago.

Simon, it might have escaped your attention that Sam gave Hoilett his debut as a youngster and slowly gave him more game time as he improved and gained confidence. It's what good managers do with young players and had nothing to do with "big Sam's style of play".

You really are hard of learning.

As for the contract, look to your friend and hero Steve Kean's quotes on signing Hoilett on a long contract from 12 months ago.

[Stuart]

It is a bit churlish.

Sam got Hoilett to sign a new contract despite not being a central figure (at that time).

Kean can't get Hoilett to sign even by offering him sweeteners.

Yet Sam gets the blame for not getting him on a long enough contract. As though a contract would affect whether he stays or goes anyway!

It really is stuff.

[47er]

Junior had almost 2 years left to go when Venky's came in, yes it would have been nice to have secured him for longer back then, but. Even then Sam had to go to extreme lengths to get him tied down for 3 years, what other players has it taken trips abroad by the manager to seal the deal? Junior wasn't the easiest to deal with back then and he most likely hasn't been since then either. At the end of the day if the owners had come in and not spouted rubbish like champions league and Ronnie, ruining the club and setting us back years, then he may well be more amicable. He obviously sees Rovers as a stepping stone and has done for a while. His dad's his agent and he'll be looking out for his son and a free transfer means more money for Junior.

I think that's exactly right. From a purely financial viewpoint, Hoilett and his Dad have played a blinder.

I suspect he would have been more likely to stay with us if we weren't run by circus people and perpetually in relegation mode and with a decent manager.

But let's beat Sam with it!

[Amo]

Although I don't think Hoilett was going anywhere under Big Sam, blaming HIM for the current contract situation is ludicrous.

[Majiball]

We all love a good Sam bashing.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I think that's exactly right. From a purely financial viewpoint, Hoilett and his Dad have played a blinder.

I suspect he would have been more likely to stay with us if we weren't run by circus people and perpetually in relegation mode and with a decent manager.

But let's beat Sam with it!

I agree - and by the same token we shouldn't beat Kean with it either. He has been daft/naive to say he is about to sign - but IMO somebody is telling him this. As a Rovers fan I hope it is Hoilett that is assuring Kean that he will sign - and we all get a surprise at the end of the season. I would even put up with Kean's smug "I told you so" smile to see Hoilett develop further at Rovers.

[47er]

I agree - and by the same token we shouldn't beat Kean with it either. He has been daft/naive to say he is about to sign - but IMO somebody is telling him this. As a Rovers fan I hope it is Hoilett that is assuring Kean that he will sign - and we all get a surprise at the end of the season. I would even put up with Kean's smug "I told you so" smile to see Hoilett develop further at Rovers.

2 things------I think (and said) that Hoilett was more likely to re-sign with a decent manager so I think I can beat Kean for that! Secondly, Kean told us many times that Hoilett was on the verge of signing a new deal and thus made himself look ridiculous.

Re the rumours that the owners are offering him a 2M a year contract, I would think this is more about protecting their investment than actually trying to keep him.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Just spotted this rubbish from a few hours ago.

Simon, it might have escaped your attention that Sam gave Hoilett his debut as a youngster and slowly gave him more game time as he improved and gained confidence. It's what good managers do with young players and had nothing to do with "big Sam's style of play".

For this read 'barely got a game because Hoilett did not fit Allardyce's one dimensional, cynical, spirit sapping, highly effective "football'

[Andy]

For this read 'barely got a game because Hoilett did not fit Allardyce's one dimensional, cynical, spirit sapping, highly effective "football'

For this, read 'Sam gave Hoilett his debut as a youngster and slowly gave him more game time as he improved and gained confidence. It's what good managers do with young players and had nothing to do with "big Sam's style of play".

[deryck guyler's spoon]

nothing to do with "big Sam's style of play".

Cant agree

[Stuart]

For this read 'barely got a game because Hoilett did not fit Allardyce's one dimensional, cynical, spirit sapping, highly effective "football'

Aye. All those wins, Fortress Ewood returning and a top half finish. I don't know how the found the strength under those "spirit sapping" circumstances.

Footballers want to win, end of.

[Mattyblue]

'Highly effective', those were the days!