Music/gigs

[oldjamfan1]

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Ha ha ha. It’s not just the ground breaking music they made, they were a cultural phenomenon. Nothing was the same after the Beatles. You had to be there to appreciate just how big they were. 1 to 5 in the US top ten at a time when British bands never got a mention. Did Paul Weller ever do that ?  George Harrison was probably a better song writer than Weller, never mind John and Paul.

Regarding Maccas output when he was past it - it’s like saying Pele wasn’t much good at New York Cosmos.

I agree with 99% of what you post on here Tyrone but those last two sentences are nonsense I’m afraid. George Harrison is lucky if he’s in double figures of real top notch songs. 
 

The Pele analogy is off as well, there’s no physical reason why a songwriter should be ‘past it’ in that way. Lennon and McCartney fed off each other and once that dynamic was gone they were generally poorer songwriters for it. With only a very few exceptions their solo work generally was not even on a par with Weller’s. 

Absolutely no dispute with what you say about the Beatles though, but that wasn’t the original poster’s claim. Even ‘oldjamfan’ would say that the Fabs are the best band ever. 
 

Edit: There are only two artists who have had number one albums in five separate decades, guess who?

And quite how Weller didn’t have one in the 1970s with either All Mod Cons or Setting Sons is beyond me, which would have put him out there on his own. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by oldjamfan1

[Mattyblue]

To be fair ‘Written by Lennon-McCartney’ was largely a business arrangement from two individual songwriters post about 1965.

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

To be fair ‘Written by Lennon-McCartney’ was largely a business arrangement from two individual songwriters post about 1965.

It was a bit more than that Matty. They fed off each other and inspired each other. They would often finish each other’s songs off or make little suggestions (eg A Day In the Life, Hey Jude and plenty of others). But yeah, they didn’t sit down together and compose from scratch in the way that some might imagine they did.

Not aimed at you per se but I’m not sure how this all turned into folk defending the Beatles. But to suggest that a man who has been selling shit loads of records and writing classic songs for five decades, since he was just 18 years old, and in many different styles, doesn’t belong in the very upper echelons of British singer/songwriters is a bit odd.

[Mattyblue]

I’m more defending our Macca who I’ve always felt is a bit unfairly maligned as a songwriter in comparison to Lennon.

I’ll leave the Modfather debate to you more qualified folk!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

48 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I agree with 99% of what you post on here Tyrone but those last two sentences are nonsense I’m afraid. George Harrison is lucky if he’s in double figures of real top notch songs. 
 

The Pele analogy is off as well, there’s no physical reason why a songwriter should be ‘past it’ in that way. Lennon and McCartney fed off each other and once that dynamic was gone they were generally poorer songwriters for it. With only a very few exceptions their solo work generally was not even on a par with Weller’s. 

Absolutely no dispute with what you say about the Beatles though, but that wasn’t the original poster’s claim. Even ‘oldjamfan’ would say that the Fabs are the best band ever. 
 

Edit: There are only two artists who have had number one albums in five separate decades, guess who?

And quite how Weller didn’t have one in the 1970s with either All Mod Cons or Setting Sons is beyond me, which would have put him out there on his own. 

I’m sorry but people will be playing “ Something “ by George Harrison when Paul Weller is forgotten.  “ The best love song of the last 50 years - Frank Sinatra “. I liked “ The Jam “ loads, they were a breath of fresh air at the time, but I think you’re letting  your enthusiasm get the better of your judgement.

Ray Davies, that somebody else mentioned, is also more influential. Not to mention Pete Townsend, Van Morrison etc etc.

[oldjamfan1]

19 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m more defending our Macca who I’ve always felt is a bit unfairly maligned as a songwriter in comparison to Lennon.

I must say I haven’t seen any of that on here mate? Both of them were definitely better songwriters in the Beatles than out of the Beatles (IMHO).

[Mattyblue]

No talking generally, I suppose dying young Lennon has kept that mystique.

[oldjamfan1]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’m sorry but people will be playing “ Something “ by George Harrison when Paul Weller is forgotten.  “ The best love song of the last 50 years - Frank Sinatra “. I liked “ The Jam “ loads, they were a breath of fresh air at the time, but I think you’re letting  your enthusiasm get the better of your judgement.

Ray Davies, that somebody else mentioned, is also more influential. Not to mention Pete Townsend, Van Morrison etc etc.

We shall need to agree to disagree on what makes someone one of the best British songwriters. Love the Kinks and the Who but neither of those blokes have written anything of worth in 40 odd years. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

We shall need to agree to disagree on what makes someone one of the best British songwriters. Love the Kinks and the Who but neither of those blokes have written anything of worth in 40 odd years. 

Well they won’t will they ? They been there, got the tee shirt etc. They’re older than I am, they’ve nothing new to say. Just as importantly - they know that. What’s Bob Dylan had to say recently that is ground breaking ? Nothing is forever in life.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[oldjamfan1]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Well they won’t will they ? They been there, got the tee shirt etc. They’re older than I am, they’ve nothing new to say. Just as importantly - they know that. What’s Bob Dylan had to say recently that is ground breaking ? Nothing is forever in life.

Apart from (it would seem) Neil Young and Paul Weller, who just keep on writing meaningful and relevant music when most people would have retired to enjoy the trappings of their success. A lot always depends on where your ‘entry point’ is in music (hence Noel Gallagher being mentioned in this discussion). My moniker in here maybe belies the fact that I like all sorts of music - different genres and different eras - and that includes most of the folk you have mentioned. It doesn’t however make me myopic when it comes to the music of Weller. You mentioned The Jam but that was just the tip of the iceberg for him and he was only 24 when he ended that band. 

‘You Do Something To Me’ and prior to that ‘You’re the Best Thing’, both of them post-The Jam, are the chosen ‘first dance’ of literally thousands of married couples. And from the same bloke that wrote ‘The Eton Rifles’ and ‘Going Underground’.

Fast forward to 2023 and he’s still churning them out. Yeah, I think objectively he deserves to be mentioned in the same company as all the greats.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

48 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Apart from (it would seem) Neil Young and Paul Weller, who just keep on writing meaningful and relevant music when most people would have retired to enjoy the trappings of their success. A lot always depends on where your ‘entry point’ is in music (hence Noel Gallagher being mentioned in this discussion). My moniker in here maybe belies the fact that I like all sorts of music - different genres and different eras - and that includes most of the folk you have mentioned. It doesn’t however make me myopic when it comes to the music of Weller. You mentioned The Jam but that was just the tip of the iceberg for him and he was only 24 when he ended that band. 

‘You Do Something To Me’ and prior to that ‘You’re the Best Thing’, both of them post-The Jam, are the chosen ‘first dance’ of literally thousands of married couples. And from the same bloke that wrote ‘The Eton Rifles’ and ‘Going Underground’.

Fast forward to 2023 and he’s still churning them out. Yeah, I think objectively he deserves to be mentioned in the same company as all the greats.

He wrote loads of really good stuff that still sounds great to me even now. I’m surprised you never mentioned “ That’s Entertainment “. Still the best thing he wrote for me. 

[Upside Down]

50 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He wrote loads of really good stuff that still sounds great to me even now. I’m surprised you never mentioned “ That’s Entertainment “. Still the best thing he wrote for me. 

A Town Called Malice would like a word with you.

He did something that only other absolutely first rate artists can do and that's take the world around us and put it on a record. Not just singing words about it but conveying the sights, the sounds, the smell, the feel. You've got to be on another level to do that.

The Beatles did this, along with much more, the Kinks did this, but never get the recognition as they weren't as big in 'meerkkka, and Weller did this also.

Anyway this all started because I proposed that Noel Gallagher is on par with Richard Ashcroft. Both brilliant. 

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He wrote loads of really good stuff that still sounds great to me even now. I’m surprised you never mentioned “ That’s Entertainment “. Still the best thing he wrote for me. 

Funnily enough a fan wrote most of the lyrics to that song - Weller started up a publishing company called Riot Stories and invited young people to submit poetry and short stories. He liked one by a lad called Paul Drew called That’s Entertainment so much that he borrowed many of the lines from it, as well as the title.

What the great Robert Wyatt called making new furniture out of old wood...

 

Weller’s last three or four albums have been as good as anything he’s released - and he’s still having a little pop at his pet hates, more power to him for doing so!

[wilsdenrover]

I can’t believe you’ve all been having this debate without mentioning the frog chorus 😁

[wilsdenrover]

On a more serious note, where would you all rank Prince as a songwriter?

[Upside Down]

I wouldn't.

[oldjamfan1]

9 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

On a more serious note, where would you all rank Prince as a songwriter?

I’m not personally a massive fan but as a songwriter and multi instrumentalist he was right up there.

[wilsdenrover]

11 hours ago, Upside Down said:

I wouldn't.

Any particular reason?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

18 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

On a more serious note, where would you all rank Prince as a songwriter?

Very good.

[Upside Down]

13 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

Any particular reason?

Just awful.

Purple Rain? One song I will definitely change the station should it come on.

I think people confuse his phenomenal talent as a player of many instruments for songwriting talent.

 

[wilsdenrover]

14 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Just awful.

Purple Rain? One song I will definitely change the station should it come on.

I think people confuse his phenomenal talent as a player of many instruments for songwriting talent.

 

Thank you for your reply. 

Everyone has different tastes (I’m not keen on purple rain either) but do you not think Nothing compares to U (Sinead ‘O’ Connor) or I feel for you (Chaka Khan) are good songs?

I won’t tell you off if you don’t (not that you’d care if i did 😁) I just find it interesting to get other people’s perspectives on things.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

Thank you for your reply. 

Everyone has different tastes (I’m not keen on purple rain either) but do you not think Nothing compares to U (Sinead ‘O’ Connor) or I feel for you (Chaka Khan) are good songs?

I won’t tell you off if you don’t (not that you’d care if i did 😁) I just find it interesting to get other people’s perspectives on things.

 

 

What about “ Little Red Corvette “ ? If you don’t like that you must have tin ear.

Having said that there is a long list of obviously brilliant and well regarded artistes that just don’t do it for me.

Stevie Wonder, Queen, Michael Jackson, David Bowie etc etc.

[Upside Down]

Stevie Wonder - Some amazing, some not

Queen - I can take them or leave them. Never really had any excitement about them.

Michael Jackson - Paedophile

Bowie - Pure genius.

[wilsdenrover]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What about “ Little Red Corvette “ ? If you don’t like that you must have tin ear.

Having said that there is a long list of obviously brilliant and well regarded artistes that just don’t do it for me.

Stevie Wonder, Queen, Michael Jackson, David Bowie etc etc.

I like quite a lot of Prince songs (including little red corvette)  which is why I threw his name out there.

Of course it would be very boring if we all liked the same things! 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

37 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Stevie Wonder - Some amazing, some not

Queen - I can take them or leave them. Never really had any excitement about them.

Michael Jackson - Paedophile

Bowie - Pure genius.

I remember seeing Stevie Wonder do “ Superstition “ live on Top Of Pops years ago. I knew it was live because it was better than the record ! Brilliant musician, but I’m not a fan.

One of the best live performances I ever saw was Queen at Live Aid,  but I’m not a fan of them either.