[Archived] Fabrice Muamba

[Ozz]

Probably gonna get castrated for this but to be honest I suspect thats a big part of the motivation for most people in these public outpourings of grief and sympathy whenever something bad happens to a famous person. The vast majority of fans don't know anything about Muamba on a personal level so are they really that cut up about it? Or is it just the shock of seeing something like that happen on TV? I've read numerous stories of kids collapsing and dying during football matches, as I'm sure everyone has. Why no national concern for them?

Expressing compassion for someone makes you look good and feel good. But I'd really question the sincerity deep down when half the fans in England barely knew who he was before this happened. If Rovers fans are going to Bolton with plans to create huge banners expressing our love for this guy and sing about him for extended periods, to me it seems too much like looking for a pat on the back for being so nice. I'm all for joining in with a round of applause or whatever but to be honest I'm not interested in over the top gestures trying to make us look good in front to everyone else. Lets just show our respect and get on with supporting Rovers.

Thats your best post.

[den]

The vast majority of fans don't know anything about Muamba on a personal level so are they really that cut up about it?

I think the vast majority felt a lot of sympathy for a young lad and his family. Cut up about it? Maybe not cut up, but certainly compassionate in their feelings. When Jack Walker died, there were numerous tributes to him from people all over the country who didn't know him personally and those were really well recieved by the majority of rovers fans. I see nothing wrong with a banner wishing him well. Don't see how that's in any way going over the top.

[Roaming Rover]

I think sometimes footballers and celebrities in general seem untouchable in terms of the tragedies us 'normal' people suffer. Something like this does bring home the fact that mother nature can affect any of us at anytime.

The support shown to Fabrice Mumaba will give some comfort to others who have suffered from some form of Sudden Adult Death syndrome, just from the fact it has raise awareness of the condition.

I remember a columnist in one of the papers writing an article and saying that people just don't die in their sleep. It just doesn’t happen. It does and the hurt and distress caused by these to those who have suffered was immense. Hopefully the awareness raised this week alone will help stop uneducated comments like this.

I do feel that whilst Muamba looks like he got 'lucky', at least 12 young people will not have been so and will sadly die from SADs this week alone and these people should not be forgotten.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

I think the vast majority felt a lot of sympathy for a young lad and his family. Cut up about it? Maybe not cut up, but certainly compassionate in their feelings. When Jack Walker died, there were numerous tributes to him from people all over the country who didn't know him personally and those were really well recieved by the majority of rovers fans. I see nothing wrong with a banner wishing him well. Don't see how that's in any way going over the top.

+1

It also goes to show that at times like these, despite what happens on the pitch, we can keep things in perspective by putting our rivalries aside.

Best wishes to the lad on his recovery.

[thenodrog]

Probably gonna get castrated for this but to be honest I suspect thats a big part of the motivation for most people in these public outpourings of grief and sympathy whenever something bad happens to a famous person. The vast majority of fans don't know anything about Muamba on a personal level so are they really that cut up about it? Or is it just the shock of seeing something like that happen on TV? I've read numerous stories of kids collapsing and dying during football matches, as I'm sure everyone has. Why no national concern for them?

Expressing compassion for someone makes you look good and feel good. But I'd really question the sincerity deep down when half the fans in England barely knew who he was before this happened. If Rovers fans are going to Bolton with plans to create huge banners expressing our love for this guy and sing about him for extended periods, to me it seems too much like looking for a pat on the back for being so nice. I'm all for joining in with a round of applause or whatever but to be honest I'm not interested in over the top gestures trying to make us look good in front to everyone else. Lets just show our respect and get on with supporting Rovers.

Correct. You almost certainly will get gelded for it too I suspect. If not by members then almost certainly your card will be marked by one or two moderators for future reference.

All this need for a public outpouring of grief seemed to start with Princess Diana's death. The odd thing here, and it really is odd, is that Fabrice Muamba (somewhat miraculously) didn't die and is hopefully on the road to recovery. Don't want to be flippant but what would some want if he had passed away? A state funeral perhaps? Abandonement on the rest of the fixtures for the current football season perhaps?

Begs ther question why aren't we sharing grief for the Belgian (including one UK child) kids killed in the awful Swiss coach crash last week? How about the Jewish kids gunned down in Toulouse this week? Soldiers a few years younger that Muamba blown to smithereens almost daily in Afghanistan? Could it be cos non of that sh1t was witnessed live on the silver screen? I hope not but I suspect so. Interests and somewhat saddens me too cos as a nation we are actively and openly cherry picking the recipients of our sympathy and that is not only illogical it is definitely very odd and what is fast becoming a 21st century social phenomenon.

[Atomicrover]

Good Luck to Fabrice, but getting over the physical element of the heart attack is only one half of the process.

As some of you may be awre from past posts, I suffered a heart attack whilst on th efield and only my son's quick thinking (and even quicker driving!) managed to get me to hospital in time for them to save me, that was 7 years ago now.

However quick I recovered physically though(back at work in 40 days), I have never found it in me to do any form of strenuous exercise ever since, as mentally I equate this with being the cause of my attack, even though the scientific half of my brain tells me it was because I was so fit that I probably survived in the first place.

Its very hard though, when you have never smoked, drank and played footie twice a week and referee'd at weekends to look at any other facets of your lifestyle for "the answer". I hope Fabrice never encounters this, I expect the back up and support he will get will be far greater than was open to me and I wish him well.

[thenodrog]

I remember a columnist in one of the papers writing an article and saying that people just don't die in their sleep. It just doesnt happen. It does and the hurt and distress caused by these to those who have suffered was immense. Hopefully the awareness raised this week alone will help stop uneducated comments like this.

Dunno about that RR. It echoes a conversation which I had with my GP just a few weeks ago. I asked him the question of how in his opinion most of his patients would choose to die. He looked suprised but retorted 'In their sleep of course'. I agreed but then cited massive recent improvements in cardiology preventing such luxuries and instead sentencing the population to 15 or so years extra life before a slow agonising death from cancer, alzheimers or similar undignified and unpleasant exit. We have come to forcing human beings to a level of needless and unecessary suffering for which if we did similar with our pets we would end up in court for.

To anyone who has seen relatives and friends suffer unnecessarily euthanasia really is a moral dilemma which will have to be addressed and sooner rather than later imo.

[Stuart]

Correct. You almost certainly will get gelded for it too I suspect. If not by members then almost certainly your card will be marked by one or two moderators for future reference.

All this need for a public outpouring of grief seemed to start with Princess Diana's death. The odd thing here, and it really is odd, is that Fabrice Muamba (somewhat miraculously) didn't die and is hopefully on the road to recovery. Don't want to be flippant but what would some want if he had passed away? A state funeral perhaps? Abandonement on the rest of the fixtures for the current football season perhaps?

Begs ther question why aren't we sharing grief for the Belgian (including one UK child) kids killed in the awful Swiss coach crash last week? How about the Jewish kids gunned down in Toulouse this week? Soldiers a few years younger that Muamba blown to smithereens almost daily in Afghanistan? Could it be cos non of that sh1t was witnessed live on the silver screen? I hope not but I suspect so. Interests and somewhat saddens me too cos as a nation we are actively and openly cherry picking the recipients of our sympathy and that is not only illogical it is definitely very odd and what is fast becoming a 21st century social phenomenon.

I think it's somewhere in between. Worrying about a football match or lost money on train tickets in the IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH of the events is disrespectful. Being philosophical about life and death is all well and good - particularly when athiests pipe up with their condescending views - is also a bit much when a lads life is hanging in the balance.

Now that he is on the road to recovery, yes we can start to move onto fixtures again but when things like this happen in football it's a reminder of just how fragile it is. Players are so highly tuned, they become injured easily and we kind of accept that but when someone's heart gives up because its being pushed to the extreme - to the point where a 23-year old is being given CPR on the pitch, it's kind of a standstill moment.

Yes a banner might be a bit much but it does show that we are all pulling together - I like the idea of "from Football fans" rather than "from Rovers" as it shows that above all of the rivalry and "passion" that something like this can actually bring us together, albeit briefly, rather than receiving more condescension from people who see it as something more selfish. "You can't please all of the people all of the time" springs to mind.

Why aren't people sharing their grief about the Belgian coach crash? Probably because it's a football forum.

Here's a final thought. But for the grace of God (or "luck" or "science" for the agnostics) we could have been discussing Gael Givet...

[Roaming Rover]

There is a difference between dying in your sleep as in end the suffering and you go to bed fit and healthy and age 19, 20, 28, 31 etc and you do not wake up. People say the 'in their sleep' as their thoughts are always on suffering in death.

Both ways are shocking, but being able to say goodbye is massive IMO.

[rigger]

Probably gonna get castrated for this but to be honest I suspect thats a big part of the motivation for most people in these public outpourings of grief and sympathy whenever something bad happens to a famous person. The vast majority of fans don't know anything about Muamba on a personal level so are they really that cut up about it? Or is it just the shock of seeing something like that happen on TV? I've read numerous stories of kids collapsing and dying during football matches, as I'm sure everyone has. Why no national concern for them?

Expressing compassion for someone makes you look good and feel good. But I'd really question the sincerity deep down when half the fans in England barely knew who he was before this happened. If Rovers fans are going to Bolton with plans to create huge banners expressing our love for this guy and sing about him for extended periods, to me it seems too much like looking for a pat on the back for being so nice. I'm all for joining in with a round of applause or whatever but to be honest I'm not interested in over the top gestures trying to make us look good in front to everyone else. Lets just show our respect and get on with supporting Rovers.

100% agree.Especially the last sentance.

[forumquizmaster]

Correct. You almost certainly will get gelded for it too I suspect. If not by members then almost certainly your card will be marked by one or two moderators for future reference.

All this need for a public outpouring of grief seemed to start with Princess Diana's death. The odd thing here, and it really is odd, is that Fabrice Muamba (somewhat miraculously) didn't die and is hopefully on the road to recovery. Don't want to be flippant but what would some want if he had passed away? A state funeral perhaps? Abandonement on the rest of the fixtures for the current football season perhaps?

Begs ther question why aren't we sharing grief for the Belgian (including one UK child) kids killed in the awful Swiss coach crash last week? How about the Jewish kids gunned down in Toulouse this week? Soldiers a few years younger that Muamba blown to smithereens almost daily in Afghanistan? Could it be cos non of that sh1t was witnessed live on the silver screen? I hope not but I suspect so. Interests and somewhat saddens me too cos as a nation we are actively and openly cherry picking the recipients of our sympathy and that is not only illogical it is definitely very odd and what is fast becoming a 21st century social phenomenon.

I can't disagree with the sentiment of any of this post, bar the above sentence. Hillsbrough was the first instance I can recall of the phenomenon you have described.

Good Luck to Fabrice, but getting over the physical element of the heart attack is only one half of the process.

As some of you may be awre from past posts, I suffered a heart attack whilst on th efield and only my son's quick thinking (and even quicker driving!) managed to get me to hospital in time for them to save me, that was 7 years ago now.

However quick I recovered physically though(back at work in 40 days), I have never found it in me to do any form of strenuous exercise ever since, as mentally I equate this with being the cause of my attack, even though the scientific half of my brain tells me it was because I was so fit that I probably survived in the first place.

Its very hard though, when you have never smoked, drank and played footie twice a week and referee'd at weekends to look at any other facets of your lifestyle for "the answer". I hope Fabrice never encounters this, I expect the back up and support he will get will be far greater than was open to me and I wish him well.

Sorry to hear that mate. The same thing happened to me 9 years ago and you are spot on. The psychological effects are harder to overcome than the physical ones, which were very well explained at the time by the cardiologists. Having said that, I used playing football again as a spur, and thankfully I did manage to squeeze a couple of extra years in (I was 38 when I had the heart attack) under a strict medicine and dietary regime. Thankfully for me, it happened in Glasgow, which has some of the best in this field as it is the heart attack capital of Europe!!

[thenodrog]

I can't disagree with the sentiment of any of this post, bar the above sentence. Hillsbrough was the first instance I can recall of the phenomenon you have described.

Sorry to hear that mate. The same thing happened to me 9 years ago and you are spot on. The psychological effects are harder to overcome than the physical ones, which were very well explained at the time by the cardiologists. Having said that, I used playing football again as a spur, and thankfully I did manage to squeeze a couple of extra years in (I was 38 when I had the heart attack) under a strict medicine and dietary regime. Thankfully for me, it happened in Glasgow, which has some of the best in this field as it is the heart attack capital of Europe!!

Bradford even? Thing is they were not for individuals. The spontaneity of the public outpouring of grief during Princess Di's funeral and her cortege was unbelievable.

btw... Your story and atomics are truly heartwarming. Well done the pair of you.

[LeChuck]

Your story and atomics are truly heartwarming.

Cheeky.

[speeeeeeedie]

I agree with the sentiment on the over the top reactions. It is a shock to see a 23 year old professional athlete collapse. Nobody knows at present what the outcome will be. I hope for he and his family's sake he's OK.

I am more confused about the bloke who was arrested for abusing Muamba over Twitter. I understand that plenty of people have racist views, for whatever reason. What I don't understand is why he posted in for all to see? Are people that stupid?

[DE.]

I agree with the sentiment on the over the top reactions. It is a shock to see a 23 year old professional athlete collapse. Nobody knows at present what the outcome will be. I hope for he and his family's sake he's OK.

I am more confused about the bloke who was arrested for abusing Muamba over Twitter. I understand that plenty of people have racist views, for whatever reason. What I don't understand is why he posted in for all to see? Are people that stupid?

To post something like that in your own name, with your picture on your profile, and details of your life ("I go to Swansea university") has to be up there with the all time idiotic actions. I was on his profile as he was doing it (linked on another forum) and as soon as Collymore said he'd reported him to the police he backtracked and said he'd been 'hacked' and started apologising.

Too late.

Now claims he was drunk - but I imagine that's another lie. An easy excuse.

[Jock]

"made to pay"? What on earth are you talking about?

I think football has acted with a great deal of dignity since it has happened so stupid and facetious remarks like that are completely inappropriate.

Rovers fans are bad guys in the media and the nation will want a Bolton win, thats what i meant. I hope the lad makes a speedy recovery. I dont need to go round showing i'm the chief mourner, as he's with us.

[Tom]

Some may be over reacting but I was genuinely affected by this on Saturday and spent most my night trying to find out more info on the lad.

Something about it just really disturbed me, the whole public spectacle of it all and a lad with so much to live for suddenly looking like he had lost it all including his life in front of millions.

[Mattyblue]

Yep add me to the heartless b*stard brigade.

What happenned at Tottenham was awful, as someone who lost someone close to me far too young, I know exactly what his family and close friends are going through. I have been checking for updates on his condition whenever I can.

But maybe I'm old fashioned, in possession of a 'stiff upper lip', maybe I'm just dead inside ( ), but post Diana, these national outporings of grief, I just find hard to fathom.

A minute's applause for a lad that is alive, this whole #prayformuamba thing, talk about pulling out the FA Cup and so on, just seems overly mawkish to me.

[adsfortheblues]

Yep add me to the heartless b*stard brigade.

What happenned at Tottenham was awful, as someone who lost someone close to me far too young, I know exactly what his family and close friends are going through. I have been checking for updates on his condition whenever I can.

But maybe I'm old fashioned, in possession of a 'stiff upper lip', maybe I'm just dead inside ( ), but post Diana, these national outporings of grief, I just find hard to fathom.

A minute's applause for a lad that is alive, this whole #prayformuamba thing, talk about pulling out the FA Cup and so on, just seems overly mawkish to me.

I agree, awful things happen to genuinely good people every day, every week, every month of every year. With this being a sportsperson doesn't mean special dispensation should be given, if we had a minutes applause for every person who had been the subject of a tragic event every game we wouldn't have won the title yet.

[Stuart]

A minute's applause for a lad that is alive, this whole #prayformuamba thing, talk about pulling out the FA Cup and so on, just seems overly mawkish to me.

It may seem mawkish but only (thankfully) due to the fact he's looking likely to pull through.

In other circumstances, pulling out of the FA cup might have been fitting.

There aren't many stiff British upper lips left anyway - and very few in the PL!

[thenodrog]

It may seem mawkish but only (thankfully) due to the fact he's looking likely to pull through.

In other circumstances, pulling out of the FA cup might have been fitting.

There aren't many stiff British upper lips left anyway - and very few in the PL!

To achieve what exactly Stuart? Far better to go full out to actually win it and dedicate the win to his memory. That would be the proper way forward and I'm sure most players would want that course of action to be followed should similar happen to them.

MU didn't pull out in '58 and they had lost half a team. They went to Wembley to win it but Bolton prevailed. Course in those days the war(s) were still fresh in their minds and people were more mature and with a greater sense of perspective.

[Amo]

I'm an awful person. When I saw Cahill's shirt, my first thought was 'Pray...For...Mojo...'

I do agree with what's been said. I think there's a kind of 'self-indulgence' in our society, as it were, towards this kind of thing. Obviously everyone is wishing the best for this lad, for it was a terrible event, but we feed on this hysteria and the media love it. I don't know... It just seems that nowadays we need to push the boat out just to prove how upset we all are. Cancelling fixtures? Scrapping tournaments? Why? Is that what Muamba would even want? This happens every single day of the week, and for all the people involved with it, life must inevitably go on. Football should be no different.

[Tom]

Whereas I feel like a great person for getting the reference there

[Stuart]

To achieve what exactly Stuart? Far better to go full out to actually win it and dedicate the win to his memory. That would be the proper way forward and I'm sure most players would want that course of action to be followed should similar happen to them.

MU didn't pull out in '58 and they had lost half a team. They went to Wembley to win it but Bolton prevailed. Course in those days the war(s) were still fresh in their minds and people were more mature and with a greater sense of perspective.

It happened in the pitch. That's the difference. The 'disaster' came into the ground, it's not a place they could go to get away from the harsh reality.

The only thing it would achieve is not putting the players through the experience again - if a bloke dies on the pitch things are brought into sharp perspective and I don't imagine they'd be fully focussed on the game. People aren't like they were in 58.

Thankfully, and hopefully, it's a moot point anyway.

I do agree though that outpourings of grief have become sensationalised these days, purely to sell newspapers and Sky advertising.

[joey_big_nose]

I do agree though that outpourings of grief have become sensationalised these days, purely to sell newspapers and Sky advertising.

That's the nub of it. The winners from Muamba's situation are really the newspapers and the advertisers. It's all so morbid. A cacophany of grief propelled mainly by the need to line media barons pockets and sell tins of beans.

The guy has all my support, I think it is worthwhile for the public to be kept in the know about his condition, but some aspects of the reporting is taking on the Diana route of milking grief.