[Archived] Morten Gamst Pedersen

[Baz]

Staggered by some posts on here.

Whilst I wouldnt class MGP as a legend, he's still someone who can make a good contribution to the 1st team.

[Rover_Shaun]

So we are too assume that Pedersen being 16th highest assist maker in PL history is through meaningless punts forward and sheer luck? What an absolutely appalling argument haha.

Yes that's exactly what I meant rather than just not seeing this particular Americanisation of the game as black and white. Assists can be a perfectly weighted through ball, a lumped over corner to nobody in particular or a wild shot heading for the corner flag. All are classed the same but are totally different animals. Take your brain out of 1st gear

[Mike E]

To be fair Giggs at his lowest was still better than Morten at his peak(and that isn't a dig at Morten more of a testament to Giggs).

I'm being genuine when I say I'd still have Giggs ahead of Bale (as good as the latter is).

[jim mk2]

Fair enough Parson, we'll obviously have to completely disagree on this one.

Personally I think it's a huge feather in Gary Bowyer's cap that he has apparently managed to suss out and shift the fraud that is Pedersen within a few weeks of being in permanent charge, when Ince, Allardyce, Kean, Berg and Appleton appeared unable to see through him.

Another small but significant step to "getting our Club back' if you want to view it in those terms.

The likes of Danny Murphy are a fraud but Pedersen is certainly not and you deserve nothing but contempt for demeaning one of our best players over the past 10 years by saying so.

We all have our favourite players and players we don't like but to describe Morten Gamst Pedersen as a fraud is disgraceful.

I

[saxo1man30]

oh god, don`t start. i have tired over the years of certain fans at ewood berating our various wingers(inc damien duff at his best) `lack of class`, saying `giggsy wouldn`t do this, or that..`, support man u then ffs..

The likes of Danny Murphy are a fraud but Pedersen is certainly not and you deserve nothing but contempt for demeaning one of our best players over the past 10 years by saying so.

We all have our favourite players and players we don't like but to describe Morten Gamst Pedersen as a fraud is disgraceful.

I

steady on, duff was here 10 years ago and he`s not anywhere near as good as he was, no winger we have had has been..

[T.J.Newton]

oh god, don`t start. i have tired over the years of certain fans at ewood berating our various wingers(inc damien duff at his best) `lack of class`, saying `giggsy wouldn`t do this, or that..`, support man u then ffs..

ha didn't take you long to start cracking, thought you wasn't coming back here ever(they must have got tired of you over on rovers mad)

[Blue n whites]

I get the impression that if the word disgrace wasn't used to describe mpg then there wouldn't be many people rushing to his defence.

Even friends who rate him realise he is three year past his peak, which lasted at most 18 month over a 9 year association with the club.

I've had many a discussions with fans over the last several years and the guy is marmite, I'm not doubting he ain't a nice guy, I'm not doubting he has played in some excellent games, produced some fantastic crosses and scored the odd screamer. But it's time to go, surely there is no debate.

My biggest gripe about mpg is he is a senior pro, he played in the team when we were a decent premiership team. But when the club started to go into turmoil, instead of standing up and showing committed performances he hid, and has been hiding ever since.

[saxo1man30]

ha didn't take you long to start cracking, thought you wasn't coming back here ever(they must have got tired of you over on rovers mad)

couldn`t resist coming back. i have been an infrequent poster on here for years do you know..?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

The difference is those defending him use stats to back it up. We don't just say "He's a legend, he's ace, he's a credit to the club and has been our best player for years and years". His critics do exactly that but in reverse. There's no facts produced by the anti-Pedersen side of the argument, just personal subjective opinions from sources that are hardly the definitive word on football. If some of the ridiculously harsh posts against Pedersen in the last few pages had every adjective reversed, they'd be witheringly described as the starry-eyed adoration of besotted fanboys. So the reverse applies, those posts are bitter, twisted rants from people with a personal vendetta. Who seem to be becoming more fanatically critical as they are presented with fact after fact proving Pedersen to be an excellent player for this club.

I could have put my life savings on Jimmy612's superb post on the previous page getting the "lies, damned lies and statistics" response and very little else. That quote is the biggest load of garbage ever thought up, used by people who prefer to rank their own opinion above recorded facts.

[Blue n whites]

Steve kean hypnotoad,

I expect peds is on good money, maybe more than we can afford.

Simple question

Given our situation would you keep him here given we have 19 midfielders, based on last seasons displays.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The difference is those defending him use stats to back it up. We don't just say "He's a legend, he's ace, he's a credit to the club and has been our best player for years and years". His critics do exactly that but in reverse. There's no facts produced by the anti-Pedersen side of the argument, just personal subjective opinions from sources that are hardly the definitive word on football. If some of the ridiculously harsh posts against Pedersen in the last few pages had every adjective reversed, they'd be witheringly described as the starry-eyed adoration of besotted fanboys. So the reverse applies, those posts are bitter, twisted rants from people with a personal vendetta. Who seem to be becoming more fanatically critical as they are presented with fact after fact proving Pedersen to be an excellent player for this club.

I could have put my life savings on Jimmy612's superb post on the previous page getting the "lies, damned lies and statistics" response and very little else. That quote is the biggest load of garbage ever thought up, used by people who prefer to rank their own opinion above recorded facts.

Break the stats down into years as the main argument here is that Pedersen has declined over the years and if you want to go off stats alone that can be proved. Taking into account league goals only and breaking it down into years:

2004-5 - 4 league goals

2005-6 - 9 league goals

2006-7 - 6 league goals

2007-8 - 4 league goals

2008-9 - 1 league goal

2009-10 - 3 league goals

2010-11 - 4 league goals

2011-12 - 3 league goals

Last season in the Championship - 1 league goal.

What can you see from that statistical data? 2005-2007 were his best years in terms of scoring goals in the league. In 2005-6 he scored 10 goals in all competitions and in 2006-7 he scored 8. He never hit the heights of that two year spell at the club again.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Steve kean hypnotoad,

I expect peds is on good money, maybe more than we can afford.

Simple question

Given our situation would you keep him here given we have 19 midfielders, based on last seasons displays.

Well the first line is in the same vain as a point I made in an earlier post (immediately dismissed by Topman as a fantasy). If this is a money issue rather than a playing one then another round of applause for our contemptible owners and their feeble ambitions. Champions League 3 years ago, they don't even seem to care whether we get our of the Championship now.

The other point, is it a football issue and is he one of our worst midfielders, my answer would be a resounding no. Last season was his worst ever at the club, and he produced over 3 times as many assists as Marcus Olsson. Olsson is a rank average player, who's only at the club because of his brother who was actually good, and because of the understanding they occasional had (which obviously won't benefit us now). Give me Pedersen over Olsson every day of the century.

I can understand Judge and King ranking above him a bit better, Judge excelled last season in the league below and King has shedloads of pace in an otherwise slow side. But Pedersen can also play in the centre, where his touch, composure and passing make Marrow and Lowe look like what they are, workhorses devoid of any contribution to the team whilst in possession.

The bottom line for me is Pedersen has exactly the same use as Dunn, but is always fit. We're keeping Dunny (I assume) because he can do things nobody else in the squad can. Same applies to Pedersen, the guy is simply 1-2 levels above his competition in terms technical ability, and that's a stupid thing to throw away. 7 assists last season and I bet nobody remembers them because, for Pedersen, they weren't anything special. The problem is for other players we have they very well might be, and when other players are struggling to break down a defence, why don't we want a guy who can cross it on a sixpence from 40 yards out, slip a superb through-ball into a striker or just produce a blinding finish himself?

[Mike E]

As an aside, does the Dunn contract not also have coaching-related tie-ins? Or have I dreamed that up?

[roversfan99]

To be honest, when fit, Dunn can drive games more than anyone else in the squad, Rochina included.

[SoldierMo]

Pedersen is never a disgrace has still got alot to offer on and off the pitch if hes willing to take a paycut they should keep him he was one of the main players in the hughes and sam days and brought alot of memorable moments if he leaves i for one will THANK HIM AND REMEMER HIM FOR THE MEMORABLE MOMENTS

[Steve Moss]

Is Pedersen really leaving?

If so, I wish him the best. He's been a good servant of the club, despite being paid. For those who disagree, consider that every player wearing the blue and whites has been paid. Only a small fraction (Nelsen, Tugay) have demonstrated the class and loyalty of MGP.

On the other hand, and while I don't know his wages, we are currently a Championship side. Assuming he's making even half of what he made in the PL, we can't afford it anymore. We have to cut our coat according to our cloth. While I admire Pedersen, we might not have the resources available to make the cost benefit analysis work out.

[ben_the_beast]

Mgp = Man U killer

[PAFELL]

Break the stats down into years as the main argument here is that Pedersen has declined over the years and if you want to go off stats alone that can be proved. Taking into account league goals only and breaking it down into years:

2004-5 - 4 league goals

2005-6 - 9 league goals

2006-7 - 6 league goals

2007-8 - 4 league goals

2008-9 - 1 league goal

2009-10 - 3 league goals

2010-11 - 4 league goals

2011-12 - 3 league goals

Last season in the Championship - 1 league goal.

What can you see from that statistical data? 2005-2007 were his best years in terms of scoring goals in the league. In 2005-6 he scored 10 goals in all competitions and in 2006-7 he scored 8. He never hit the heights of that two year spell at the club again.

Apart from Jordon Rhodes - I would be surprised if any Rovers player had decent stats last season. It was a completely screwed up season.

One thing that cannot be taken from MGP is that he was loyal to Rovers. Rare for any player to be loyal to their clubs these days.

[blue_n_white99]

If he is leaving, I wish him all the very best. Whatever the situation MGP has always conducted himself in the very best way. The term model-pro gets used far to liberally, in MGP's case it is particularly apt.

Good luck for the future in whatever you do. I would personally like to see him retained on some kind of pay as you play deal, in the hope that his brand of professionalism rub off on some of our younger players, rather than they be schooled by gobsh1tes like Orr, Best or Dann.

Lastly, whilst his powers maybe waning, he at least had the abilities in the first place, unlike many of the prima-donnas currently strutting their stuff.

[RevidgeBlue]

Ridiculous over-reaction to a player who once was excellent on here. Pedersen has been shocking for 5 years. What does he get if he's shocking for another 5? Life presidency of the Club and the freedom of the town? For heavens sake. I think I can excuse most players a bad season. Two is stretching it, anything more goes beyond the pale really. Pedersen's had five.

Once again people are paraphrasing my posts, I haven't described him as "a disgrace" as a person, I described his performances on the pitch as an absolute disgrace and I'd stand by that any day of the week. He is no doubt a very nice bloke off the pitch but he isn't paid for that. However the poor performances don't turn him into a mad axe murderer or anything. I would class that as disappointing in the overall scheme of things. I did use the word "fraud" which his groupies seem to be taking very personally and quoting in a very literal context but again obviously I'm not suggesting he's about to mastermind the next major bullion heist. If anyone can suggest an alternative term for someone who turns up to work year after year without giving their all or of their best and merely going through the motions I'd take that instead.

As one or two more rational posters have pointed out if he really definitely wanted to stay he could re-negotiate his contract accordingly. Having looked at the LT article properly as well it does seem to me that talk of him leaving is somewhat premature. That merely indicates he was seeking talks (assurances?) regarding his future having been left out of the squad on Sunday. It seems to me that for him to leave we would need to both pay off the majority of his contract at least and for him to have another Club lined up. There's no indication of any concrete interest in him from anywhere so I would imagine the status quo will endure for some time yet.

[RevidgeBlue]

Interesting to look at this 'disgraces' statistics. Below I have collated a very quick list of wingers/midfielders that have played consistently in the PL since it's creation. They are all part of the PL's 'all time most assists list' within which Pedersen falls in 16th place. I have also included number of appearance plus number of PL goals.

Please be aware I have left out the top 8 or 9 players as they can all be considered world class -http://www.statbunker.com/alltimestats/AllTimeCompetitionMostAssists?comp_code=EPL

Oh and also- look at Danny Murphy there, impressive assist stats - over a lot of games granted.

Player

Appearances

Assists

Goals

Ashley Young

221

53

38

Gareth Barry

497

53

47

Nolberto Solano

302

52

49

James Milner

326

52

30

Morten Gamst Pedersen

260

48

34

Stewart Downing

309

48

29

Damien Duff

377

47

54

Mikel Arteta

237

47

39

David Beckham

265

44

62

Aaron Lennon

241

44

25

Antonio Valencia

185

37

18

Luis Boa Morte

297

36

29

Here I have tried to compile a list of players that I considered to be wingers, but also have included players that have regularly taken corners e.g. Arteta, Milner and so on.

Interesting to see that our fraud actually has a very decent assist rate. This surely can't be from corners because for 6 years now I have been sat amongst Blackburn's brainiest telling me that 'he never beats the first f***ing man'. So either his corners have actually been more use than first thought, or he does contribute in general play?

Interesting also to see that since the beginning of the 2005/06 season he has been our highest 'assister' in 6 of the 8 seasons, finishing 3rd behind Hoillet and N'zonzi in our relegation year. In fact last season he finished with 7 assists in a season comprising of 19 starts.

Since 2005/6 he has played over 30 games in 5 of the 8 seasons, playing 27 in the other two PL seasons and 19 as mentioned above in our Championship season.

Now I understand that football isn't played on paper but Pedersens stats are not those of a fraud or a disgrace. In fact, I find Rev's comments to be pathetic and insulting to a player that for 8 seasons has been a mainstay in a Premier League team that each and every one of us has been proud of. He has been a model professional - no off-field issues of any note, never ever injured, committed and always reliable. He has always respected the fans, he has always respected the club, and I believe that he has always worn that shirt with pride.

Yes, we have all been frustrated when his pass has not reached it's destination, yes we have all cursed when his corner has hit the first man, it happens. Maybe he has ducked a few challenges, but I'll tell you he's also put some in.

The abuse Pedersen has received from some sections of our fan-base has been completely unjust - and now I click on here to see that people are calling him a disgrace and a fraud after 8 years of honest service to our club. I really do wonder what some people think when they watch a football match. He's been a well paid player because he was offered a contract when big clubs were after him... Can i point out that that isn't his fault. Since then he has EARNED another contract given to him by Sam Allardyce, and quite frankly I'm willing to accept his judgement over that of a few numpties posting on a message board.

If Bowyer has decided that he is not in his plans then okay, let the guy leave with his head held high. He might have come to the end of his journey here, but I can promise that if he ever walked in my local I'd be the first to buy him a beer.

EDIT: Apologies for the format of the list - i did have it in a table but clearly it won't hold it. All still kind of makes sense but it's not in a great order now

If I produced some sort of stat about Rhodes goal ratio to time on the pitch to highlight his usefulness, I'm sure you'd be the first to jump on here saying how that didn't tell the whole story,and how his all round game wasn't up to scratch and we'd be better off selling him in favour of someone who held the ball up better etc etc etc.

Ditto: Any relatively meaningless stat you can dig up about Pedersen's assists. They provide no real indicator of his overall performance. I would also expect him to have an assist stat of sorts bearing in mind he has always been our main free kick and corner taker. Given that and the longevity of his career it is not altogether surprising he is fairly high in the all time Premiership list either. Again it paints a very misleading picture of the quality of his performances as a whole over those 9 seasons as a whole, although no-one could deny he was exceptional for two of them.

[K-Hod]

He's been good at times, but mostly a passenger in recent times. He seems to love the club, and has always tried his best.

But, if we can get him off the wage bill, as he's probably one of the higher 'earners' then I wouldn't be against it.

[Ozz]

[Jimmy612]

If I produced some sort of stat about Rhodes goal ratio to time on the pitch to highlight his usefulness, I'm sure you'd be the first to jump on here saying how that didn't tell the whole story,and how his all round game wasn't up to scratch and we'd be better off selling him in favour of someone who held the ball up better etc etc etc.

Ditto: Any relatively meaningless stat you can dig up about Pedersen's assists. They provide no real indicator of his overall performance. I would also expect him to have an assist stat of sorts bearing in mind he has always been our main free kick and corner taker. Given that and the longevity of his career it is not altogether surprising he is fairly high in the all time Premiership list either. Again it paints a very misleading picture of the quality of his performances as a whole over those 9 seasons as a whole, although no-one could deny he was exceptional for two of them.

I've always maintained that Rhodes has an excellent goal scoring record - that much is obvious. The truth about him is that we overpaid for him in a time when 1. we should have been tightening our belts having lost the tv revenue 2. that serious amount of money could and should have been invested sensibly on the SQUAD instead of throwing cash willy-nilly in the vague hope he'll fire us to the PL on his own.

Pedersen cost £1.5m and has contributed plenty enough in the past 8 seasons to have earned my respect - for some reason he has been a scapegoat by some of the fans, I suspect because he hasn't put in a challenge to prompt a chorus of 'get into em' enough times - also for those who don't properly watch and understand a game, his near post corners were a part of the action that they could recognise, thus prompting them to say 'he's sh*t'.

Truth is when he did make a good assist/ did put a good cross in / did take a good corner, it was been overlooked by these fans e.g. one that sticks clearly in my mind was his tactic to bomb Fabianski from high up - we subsequently won 2-1 with a Samba header the winning goal. I also commented earlier on the Palace game last year. Morris was given MoM even though he'd been over run before Pedersen came on. These are aspects of the game that are beneficial to the whole team are sadly over looked.

Pedersen has had an excellent football brain and has been a good asset to this club for 8 seasons - Unfortunately a section of our fan base has been unable to recognise this, and have all taken on a personal hatred of him.

btw Rev, if Pedersen has been a fraud, what would you suggest Dunny is whilst he's sat on his arse on a treatment table for 9 months of the year, picking up a similar salary.

[OJRovers]

I don't think anyone is saying its a 'personal hatred' - by all accounts he's a good chap, genuinely loves Rovers and a good professional.

People are just (rightly IMO) recognising that his contribution on the pitch isn't up to stratch with what he is being paid. I think its frustrating to some people who see the glimpses of ability he has, and wonder why he can't be more consistent.