[Archived] Rovers V Man United Preview and Match Thread

[A cup of beans]

Who would you play at left back then? Givet would have been made to look silly by Valencia last night, a lot more so than Olsson was.

I was making that point to reference another piece of bad management.

Its not just last night.

It was clear, even going back to ince's, reign that olsson isnt a good enough left back.

An issue that continually fails to be addressed.

[Neil Weaver]

I left Ewood quietly fuming last night, not at the result or the effort all 11 put in, but that there were only 11 performances when it was perfectly obvious that half the team were thoroughly knackered for the last 15 mins. No substitutions!!!!!!

OK, I could understand (just) not wanting to disrupt anything, but when we went a goal down with 10 mins-ish to go surely change SOMETHING.

As others have commented, surely it’s down to appearance money. It’s down to the skidmark (apologies to the originator) on the touchline or the Indians who take care of the skidmark. The manager won’t walk Bryan, but the spectators will. One handicap in the form of Kean is enough, but it’s almost as if the Indians want the club relegated so they give us another handicap in the form of no subs. Hell, playing with 7 players is OK so why play 11 every week?

I saw a poster comment Venky’s would be happy to be closer to an extra £2 million for Jones now. Think there’s a lot of truth in that.

As I remember saying months ago, it’ll draw a lot less attention to us to sell anything that’s not nailed down if we’re not in the Prem.

[PAFELL]

Doers anyone know if Sky showed the incident ?

Yes they did

[47er]

If we do stay up, I really hope we invest heavily in the summer - because this seasons is just devastating to watch.

Not going to happen is it?

[PAFELL]

One of the key questions has to be - Is Kean to blame for the lack of Subs? Are his hands tied by the financial people & Venkys???

As for the Valencia goal - any shot hit that hard whilst running at goal from just 16-14 yards is always going to be near impossible to save.

I do not think venkys can be blamed for lack of subs being used - though they can be blamed for many other things. That has to down to Kean alone. On Sky last night, fans leaving ewood park early was put down to fans not being happy with the owners.

[47er]

Not from the angle he was shooting from. Robinson is decent, and certainly not our worst player, but a goalkeeper like Friedel would have kept us up this season.

Don't forget the fantastic save Robinson made first half. Goalkeepers are sadly only remembered for their mistakes

I do not think venkys can be blamed for lack of subs being used - though they can be blamed for many other things. That has to down to Kean alone. On Sky last night, fans leaving ewood park early was put down to fans not being happy with the owners.

In the normal world that's true. However.......

[RevidgeBlue]

We played virtually the same tactics at Old Trafford - remind me what the score was ?

Surely tactics that are acceptable for an away game at OT are not necessarily the same ones that should be adopted in the reverse fixture at home?

I've seen a number of people comment about how well we contained United. Once again I completely disagree. I lost count of the number of times United picked the ball up on the edge of their own box and were allowed to carry the ball practically to the edge of our own box virtually unchallenged. In my book you're not going to get a result against any team like that, let alone one of the better sides in the Division.

If we'd contained them to the extent they were unable to get the ball into danger areas consistently that would have been entirely different.

[RevidgeBlue]

MYTHBUSTER - MGP covers the winger and helps the full back.

No he doesn't. He's too slow that Evra and whoever else was on that wing danced round him every time - very similar to Odemwingie walking past him this season to score. That's why Orr ended up giving him a bollocking after only about 15 minutes. Didn't do much good as it continued all half.

If MGP couldn't throw the ball a long way he wouldn't be in the side - which sums it all up really.

+1

Nail, hammer, head.

Needs saying. It's hard enough being in a relegation scrap with all eleven players pulling their tripe out. Let alone with one swinging the lead.

It's absolutely astounding for me he keeps getting selected every week. He is probably also one of our highest earners so that might nail the conspiracy theories about subs not being put on so as not to incur appearance bonuses etc.

It's

[Mattyblue]

Not really Rev, if he's on a fat basic, you might as well play him, no other club is going to take his wages on.

[OJRovers]

The obvious change last night that should've happened was Dunn on for Pedersen. Fact is that Dunn's contract is one of the most linked to appearences (given his injury record). There was no other reason why with 13 mins to go we gave up and didn't make a change, the lads were out on their feet against the pace of a fresh Young, Giggs and Wellbeck.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Surely tactics that are acceptable for an away game at OT are not necessarily the same ones that should be adopted in the reverse fixture at home?

Why not - when playing a team as good as them with such a large following dont really see much of a home advantage. It definitely isnt going to suddenly make our players better is it ?

[RevidgeBlue]

Why not - when playing a team as good as them with such a large following dont really see much of a home advantage. It definitely isnt going to suddenly make our players better is it ?

How technically gifted do you have to be to press the ball and close down the opposition? Hard work costs nothing.

It certainly seems to work for Barcelona. Now I'm not suggesting for one moment that our players are as good as theirs or that we could press as effectively as them but by the same token I don't think it's acceptable to grant the opposition the freedom of the park and as much of the ball as they can squander.

Especially not at home as well.

[Kelbo]

Surely tactics that are acceptable for an away game at OT are not necessarily the same ones that should be adopted in the reverse fixture at home?

I've seen a number of people comment about how well we contained United. Once again I completely disagree. I lost count of the number of times United picked the ball up on the edge of their own box and were allowed to carry the ball practically to the edge of our own box virtually unchallenged. In my book you're not going to get a result against any team like that, let alone one of the better sides in the Division.

If we'd contained them to the extent they were unable to get the ball into danger areas consistently that would have been entirely different.

Whats not acceptable to me is this, a 38 year old bossed the game and good player as Scholes is (ball retention is immense) why did we allow him to play ball after ball after ball crossfield for Valencia? he should have had some young legs chasing him down and not allowing that to happen and someone should have pushed up on the right full back to stop him surging forward, the problem of defending too deep is it allows the opposition to get forward in greater numbers and yes I agree, there should have been some substitutions with fresh legs for the last 15 20 mins.

[speeeeeeedie]

Whats not acceptable to me is this, a 38 year old bossed the game and good player as Scholes is (ball retention is immense) why did we allow him to play ball after ball after ball crossfield for Valencia? he should have had some young legs chasing him down and not allowing that to happen and someone should have pushed up on the right full back to stop him surging forward, the problem of defending too deep is it allows the opposition to get forward in greater numbers and yes I agree, there should have been some substitutions with fresh legs for the last 15 20 mins.

Better players than Jason Lowe have suffered worse against Scholes. The bloke is one of the finest players ever to play for England. He is too good to be worried by someone running at him all day. It seems to me that you think park footabll and Premier League football are the same, but they are completely different.

I thought that we were unlucky last night. We were undone by a £15million+ winger. How many of those do we have?

[Torgeir]

I was making that point to reference another piece of bad management.

Its not just last night.

It was clear, even going back to ince's, reign that olsson isnt a good enough left back.

An issue that continually fails to be addressed.

I agree, and I have also been pointing that out in the transfer threads over the past few years. With that said, an on-form Valencia could make any left back look silly and the Olsson's have been looking good together defensively and offensively since Marcus was brought into the side.

Don't forget the fantastic save Robinson made first half. Goalkeepers are sadly only remembered for their mistakes

In the normal world that's true. However.......

The one that came off the post and bounced off him? Luck more than anything. I thought he should have saved Valencia's shot, I'm not slagging his performance off - but to win games like this our 11 players have to be on top of their game for 90 minutes. Robinson wasn't for the first, and Orr wasn't for the second (due to fatigue).

[McClarky]

Yes they did

Don't see how N'zonzi could be puniched. He manhandled Jones to the floor right in front of the referee, the ref saw it and gave a free kick. Don't think the FA are empowered to review that kind of thing as the ref has already punished him by giving a free kick. Nothing in it anyway.

MYTHBUSTER - MGP covers the winger and helps the full back.

No he doesn't. He's too slow that Evra and whoever else was on that wing danced round him every time - very similar to Odemwingie walking past him this season to score. That's why Orr ended up giving him a bollocking after only about 15 minutes. Didn't do much good as it continued all half.

If MGP couldn't throw the ball a long way he wouldn't be in the side - which sums it all up really.

(edit - obviously whether he would actually be in the side depends on the terms of his contract re bonuses etc... and how vociforous he is in the dressing room).

If we had anyone decent to replace him I would agree with you but at the moment I would play Martin O and Peds up the left as they are the best we have.

[JAL]

Whats not acceptable to me is this, a 38 year old bossed the game and good player as Scholes is (ball retention is immense) why did we allow him to play ball after ball after ball crossfield for Valencia? he should have had some young legs chasing him down and not allowing that to happen and someone should have pushed up on the right full back to stop him surging forward, the problem of defending too deep is it allows the opposition to get forward in greater numbers and yes I agree, there should have been some substitutions with fresh legs for the last 15 20 mins.

Thats because Jason Lowe was completely out of his depth on that pitch last night.

[den]

Correct Jal. Too early for him to be taking a midfield spot.

[Kelbo]

Better players than Jason Lowe have suffered worse against Scholes. The bloke is one of the finest players ever to play for England. He is too good to be worried by someone running at him all day. It seems to me that you think park footabll and Premier League football are the same, but they are completely different.

I thought that we were unlucky last night. We were undone by a £15million+ winger. How many of those do we have?

Scholes is a great player, but if you think a top coach wouldnt be able to stop that ball continually played to Valencia, then Park football is your game not mine, you push Scholes onto the other side and make him play the ball the other way or backwards, if a player cant do that, thay are a million miles away from being a Premiership Footballer.

The reason we didnt pick Scholes up is that we were defending too deep and Scholes was dropping off, he had enough time on the ball to pump the bloody thing up, our ball retention on the other hand, was in my opinion amatuerish and that is an insult to some of the fine semi pro players around the leagues!

[JAL]

Correct Jal. Too early for him to be taking a midfield spot.

When you think we had Phil Jones and Jermaine Jones in the centre last season, then you watch young Jason, its like instantly seeing the product on the pitch dropping down a couple of levels.

Must say that Bradley Orr looks a far stronger more competent full back than young Jason.

[Majiball]

watched the game last night with some work colleagues. Today everyone has apologised for saying 'manager of the year' and states they understand our frustrations.

[Fife Rover]

I'm fairly certain they are aware that the financial loss of relegation is far worse than that 2 million gain there... I mean, they have to, right? Right? or...

Not if they are planning on making -off with the parachute money, and calling it "Job Done and Goodbye". I don't know if that is their intention but it certainly might be, and it fits the turn of events to date far better than any other explanation of their decision making and behaviour. All in my opinion of course.

[Stuart]

watched the game last night with some work colleagues. Today everyone has apologised for saying 'manager of the year' and states they understand our frustrations.

What was it about last night that changed their minds?

[savage90]

Also Orr showed last night what a big error Kean made against Bolton selecting Lowe at right back... costly!

[Majiball]

What was it about last night that changed their minds?

Several reasons, the directness of play and inability to retain the ball. Basic work-rate was given as the biggest reason for this and a lack of battle/heart and aggression from the team as a whole. A couple felt fitness looked an issue for some and that might have played a part in the lack of work ethic or tactical. They felt we allowed United to dominate us and showed them too much respect, especially at home. United got plenty of the ball into dangerous area's and felt that we were riding the game out more through United's inability to produce end product, than any tactical organization. No one understood why when it got to 70-75 that we didn't look to change things and try to nick the win late on. Most thought the game plan was to ride out the storm and then look to use our better fitness levels late on to try and score. They were surprised nothing changed. All in all they felt we were 'rubbish' and lacking commitment and that we'll also have to play a LOT better to stay up.

Today's most common saying was 'if he's good enough for the premier league, then so was I'.

Last Rovers game we watched together was Bolton at home and they sympathized, not anymore.