[Archived] What did the Walkers actually sell?

[Pedro]

Sorry for the new thread but can someone 100% confirm what Venkys actually purchased when they "bought" the club. With all respect I'm really not interested in guesswork to be honest and only care about confirmed facts.

From the moment the purchase price was released (approx £23m and incorporating a £20m debt on top of it) I thought that it was very much an undervaluation bearing in mind the value of the club's playing staff, land and facilities. Which makes me wonder - did Venkys actually only buy the players contracts? If so that £43m valuation would certainly stack up if they did and would explain quite a lot of what has happened since they took over.

I've read a lot of conflicting opinion on here but it was always my understanding that the Walkers still owned Brockhall and had only provided it to the Venkys on a long term lease - is this definitely true? If that is true, do the Walkers still actually own Ewood and would it be as simple as searching on the land registry office to see who currently owns the land to put any doubts to rest...has anyone actually checked this already??

I'm sure someone will be searching for the pointless covenants that were agreed with the trust at the time of the purchase, but I'm beginning to suspect that the document was just a total red herring - does this explain the silence from the previous owners (or even possible current part owners) bearing in mind how many of those covenants were broken in the first 12months of the new ownership.

Edit: Terms of sale http://www.rovers.co.uk/staticFiles/13/64/0,,10303~156691,00.pdf

I can only see a reference to the "Blackburn Rovers portfolio" - does any former shareholder have a breakdown of the portfolio or can they confirm that Ewood and Brockhall are part of it (or are they leased to the club?)

[philipl]

All land and buildings are 100% owned by the club so when the Venky's bought the shares, they bought Ewood and Brockhall outright as well. There are some limiting covenants on the use of Brockhall but those are by agreement with Brockhall Village.

[winstonsmith]

All land and buildings are 100% owned by the club so when the Venky's bought the shares, they bought Ewood and Brockhall outright as well. There are some limiting covenants on the use of Brockhall but those are by agreement with Brockhall Village.

Philip, have you personally had sight of the documentation which proves this ? Are copies of such documentation available ? Do you have copies ?

If Venky's own Ewood and Brockhall, then what is to stop them from closing down the club and selling off the land ?

[thenodrog]

If Venky's own Ewood and Brockhall, then what is to stop them from closing down the club and selling off the land ?

Nothing much. Hence my comments months ago about conversations during negotiations when the Venkeymob were repeatedly assured by persons unamed (as yet)... "whatever happens you can not lose financially with the deal that is on the table".

I understand... and this is only my slightly informed opinion, that the individual trustees who were left BRFC specifically in their portfolio's just wanted shot of the club as neither had the slightest interest in BRFC or football in general. Fair enough too, football is not everyones cup of tea is it? Also imo quite a shrewd move by Jack W if that was his intention cos if he had left it to the ones who cared most the ludicrous financial requirements of owning a Prem club these days could easily have seen them blow their brains out financially.

The only problem was the quality, wherewithal and intent of the buyers and that ball was firmly in Rothschilds court. It is they who have let Jack, the Directors, the club and the supporters all down in setting the conditions and requirements for allowing the club to be sold to the Venkeymob and not the Walker Trust imo. Lets be honest from as much as we know (which isn't much btw) it appears Saeed and Shah would have been acceptable to Rothschilds.

[Mattyblue]

The Trust appointed them. They are in no way blameless, especially considering they also hired Anderson.

[thenodrog]

The Trust appointed them. They are in no way blameless, especially considering they also hired Anderson.

Did they or did the Venkeys? Or did the Fat Controller invite himself to do the job for a simple finders fee?

[Paul]

If Venky's own Ewood and Brockhall, then what is to stop them from closing down the club and selling off the land ?

Nothing as pointed out many months ago.......................but no one listened.

[Mattyblue]

£20million for a business that had playing assets worth £40million+, along with Ewood Park and acres of prime land in the Ribble Valley.

wow.

[OJRovers]

Was there anything in the terms of the takeover that would stop them taking out loans secured on Brockhall/Ewood?

The current facilities with Barclays are secured on the future income.

If we miraculously find cash to spend this summer i'd be very wary over where it has come from. There were rumours that Venkys were looking for sources of finance in the middle east, with them sitting on prize land/building assets of £20m+ it must be very tempting to put these up as security against a loan.

[True Blue & White]

Philip, have you personally had sight of the documentation which proves this ? Are copies of such documentation available ? Do you have copies ?

[roverandout]

they sold us down the bleedin' river!!!

[Ralfinho]

quote from the pdf file

"The Venky's Board has given assurances to BRFCI that Venky's:

(a) will commit funds on a consistent and systematic basis to future transfer and/or loan activity;

( intends to continue to support the existing management team and staff, and that it is committed to

the future development of, and investment in, the Club’s academy and youth infrastructure;

© will continue to support, promote and extend the Club’s local community and CSR activities (VH

and its subsidiaries have their own trust engaged in significant charitable work);

(d) will seek to extend the Blackburn Rovers name and brand into India, the rest of south-east Asia

and beyond;

(e) will seek to develop and improve commercial performance across sponsorship, the Club's kit deal

and general merchandising activity;

(f) will seek to enhance the fan experience at Ewood Park itself on match days (and non match

days) and to maximise season ticket sales and any remaining match day ticket sales; and

(g) intends to improve the Club’s media platforms (for example the Club's TV channel) and to

become more active in the social media space)."

WHAT A LOAD OF OLD TOSH. VENKYS IF YOU READ THIS.......READ IT AGAIN, AND AGAIN AND AGAIN THEN LOOK AT YOURSELVES IN THE MIRROR, YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE TO THE GAME THAT IS FOOTBALL (SOCCER IN AMERICA)

SHAME ON YOU

[Gav]

I'm sure someone of 'standing' mentioned recently that they cannot sell Ewood and cannot sell Brockhall either, Jack protected those as part of any future sales.

[bob fleming]

I'm sure someone of 'standing' mentioned recently that they cannot sell Ewood and cannot sell Brockhall either, Jack protected those as part of any future sales.

I thought that as well. I mean they may not have wanted BRFC anymore but I doubt that that would have clouded their judgement to the extent they'd throw in Brockhall?? All for £23m?

[PAFELL]

All land and buildings are 100% owned by the club so when the Venky's bought the shares, they bought Ewood and Brockhall outright as well. There are some limiting covenants on the use of Brockhall but those are by agreement with Brockhall Village.

I presume on simular lines that there were things in Jack will that protected the club. Which as we can witness, was tosh. There were no protections for the club in Jack's will. Which is why the trustees were able to sell the club up the river to more or less anybody who came along. It would not surprise me if there was nothing to stop venkys moving blackburn Rovers to India.

[thenodrog]

I thought that as well. I mean they may not have wanted BRFC anymore but I doubt that that would have clouded their judgement to the extent they'd throw in Brockhall?? All for £23m?

Figures don't stack up to me but I understand that after 3 years of trying and failing to sell the club they just desperately wanted out. Lots of factors at play here. If the club was taking money with it year on year and it was coming out of the trust of just two individuals within the trust then baling out at a paper loss is perfectly understandable as the chances of sinking big money trying to defy gravity in the Prem are very real. Little to gain but lots to lose. Truth is and as we have known for years BRFC as a business loses money, it doesn't make it and certainly not enough to support a Prem team. (Unfortunately it never will wash it's face either hence my Lanky Utd scenario). The propensity to blow big money now that FoC is biting must be the final straw for many owners. Money in football goes to players and agents now not the owners and investors. They are just sitting targets so who can blame anybody for wanting out? Note at this point that the last thing Dave Whelan intends to do is saddle his kids and grandchildren with Wigan. He has said so himself.

Given that the club was valued at 60m 2 years ago and only sold for 27m illustrates a steep downward curve in value, was it at the bottom? Who knows what it would be worth should relegation result. Rear in mind at this juncture that since The Yanks were sniffing around we had sold Bentley, RSC etc. Maybe the Ince debacle put the wind up by showing just how easy it is to fall from grace and end up with a valueless 'asset' and as a result sharpened resolve to get out and get rid?

The option was to do what the Venkeys have done themselves and sell off the only bits of any value and lighten the wage bill and that would have put them right in the firing line of the locals.... unless they chose to move to India or some similar far flung hidey hole to oversee the carnage from a safe distance, and who the hell in their right minds would want to do that?

[FourLaneBlue]

The only problem was the quality, wherewithal and intent of the buyers and that ball was firmly in Rothschilds court. It is they who have let Jack, the Directors, the club and the supporters all down in setting the conditions and requirements for allowing the club to be sold to the Venkeymob and not the Walker Trust imo. Lets be honest from as much as we know (which isn't much btw) it appears Saeed and Shah would have been acceptable to Rothschilds.

That makes no sense. It was The Walker Trust who owned the club. Rothschilds were just hired to find a buyer. They were middle men, and it was The Walker Trust that had the final decision of who to sell to. Whether Rothschilds had found them or not.

[philipl]

Philip, have you personally had sight of the documentation which proves this ? Are copies of such documentation available ? Do you have copies ?

If Venky's own Ewood and Brockhall, then what is to stop them from closing down the club and selling off the land ?

YES

I presume on simular lines that there were things in Jack will that protected the club. Which as we can witness, was tosh. There were no protections for the club in Jack's will. Which is why the trustees were able to sell the club up the river to more or less anybody who came along. It would not surprise me if there was nothing to stop venkys moving blackburn Rovers to India.

Yes Planning Regulations are tosh aren't they?

[PAFELL]

YES

Yes Planning Regulations are tosh aren't they?

Planning regulations are not tosh. But can be got around. Often happens.

[Bobby G]

They disgraced themselves too. But they wanted to sell and jump ship. To expect more would be assuming people have dignity and an ounce of respect for the legacy of what they represent and that those two factors matter more than money for them.

[thenodrog]

Don't be so bitter and get real BobbyG. The Walkers owe this town nothing. Never have. There was no need or expectation for Jack to do what he did in the first place. If he had said in 1990 that 'I'm going to subsidise Rovers for 20 years at the top of the footballing tree but pull out after that' we would all have snatched their bloody hands off. Well 20 years on is now!

Bottom line is that Blackburn cannot support a top team. Drive around with your eyes wide open and all you will see is depression and relative poverty. After that you see half the population with proportionately very little affinity with BRFC. In a car you are through little Blackburn in 2 mins. If the club wanted £500 per ST like most others there would be 10-15 thousand watching every match.

Why should anybody be expeceted to subsidise indefinitely a town's population that can't support itself? imo It's charity you are after and if so you'd better get onto Oxfam or similar. Good luck with that.

[philipl]

Planning regulations are not tosh. But can be got around. Often happens.

Very much doubt it in this case.

Do you think the owners of £500K homes are going to lie back and let the protection of their value be removed without a fight?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

What did the Walkers actually sell?.....the heart and soul of a Town's proud club and community for a fistful of rupees.

[Bobby G]

Don't be so bitter and get real BobbyG. The Walkers owe this town nothing. Never have. There was no need or expectation for Jack to do what he did in the first place. If he had said in 1990 that 'I'm going to subsidise Rovers for 20 years at the top of the footballing tree but pull out after that' we would all have snatched their bloody hands off. Well 20 years on is now!

Bottom line is that Blackburn cannot support a top team. Drive around with your eyes wide open and all you will see is depression and relative poverty. After that you see half the population with proportionately very little affinity with BRFC. In a car you are through little Blackburn in 2 mins. If the club wanted £500 per ST like most others there would be 10-15 thousand watching every match.

Why should anybody be expeceted to subsidise indefinitely a town's population that can't support itself? imo It's charity you are after and if so you'd better get onto Oxfam or similar. Good luck with that.

With that token then its only natural what Venkys are doing then, to get us back to where he belong?

I understand your "chain of thought" but Walker Trust had done their job well enough or acceptable enough UNTIL they sold to the wrong people. No one blames them for selling or not spending more money when they didnt want to. But selling to these guys...

[den]

Figures don't stack up to me but I understand that after 3 years of trying and failing to sell the club they just desperately wanted out. Lots of factors at play here. If the club was taking money with it year on year and it was coming out of the trust of just two individuals within the trust then baling out at a paper loss is perfectly understandable as the chances of sinking big money trying to defy gravity in the Prem are very real. Little to gain but lots to lose. Truth is and as we have known for years BRFC as a business loses money, it doesn't make it and certainly not enough to support a Prem team.

My problem with this Gord, is that the trustees were appointed to carry out Jack Walkers wishes - which they stated at the time of his death was to support the club financially for the forseeable future. Jack Walker wanted the trustees to use some of the business profits from elsewhere, to help out the club. That's what he asked them to do. Yes, the trustees weren't interested in the club, but they weren't appointed because of their footballing interests, they were appointed - and agreed to carry out Jack Walkers wishes, - not their own. The trustees let the big man down big time with their approach to the club since they withdrew their funding completely a few years back.

The trustees "desperately wanting out", shouldn't have come into it. The wishes of Jack Walker and his money should have been the only factor.

IMO, the trustees were charged with funding the club until the right buyers came along. However, they appear to have put their personal dislike of BRFC and the money being spent there, to do a major disservice to Jack's wishes. If they didn't want to carry out Jack's wishes, they shouldn't have stood as trustees.

I think if we start from the position that the money wasn't the trustees money and wasn't the families money [if Jack had simply wanted the money he left to go straight to the family, he would have left it that way in his will], then we come to different conclusions.

.