[Archived] Blackburn Rovers Community March

[Paul]

Typical fickle fan. Win, lose or draw venkean WILL take us down. Let me guess you are the type of fan foaming at the mouth wanting kean/venkys out when we are losing but if we win go home happy.

You've never met Revidge have you?

[Stuart]

Shall we agree to disagree?

Yes. Fancy another pint?

[stuwilky]

No ta, I think I've had enough!!!

[Paul]

Bloody hell Paul that's bloody convincing and by far the best argument I've seen for renewing

Maybe. But it's still anchored in nostalgia.

If you could have seen the bloke in his 50s who got up to address the crowd outside the Jack Walker stand. He was so far out of his comfort zone it was amazing he even had the guts to get up there. But he did. His voice was shaking and he clearly hadn't prepared a speech, but he spoke from the heart. It's disrespectful, and a little cheap, to call these people self-serving - and I bet you wouldn't to his face. He was just an ordinary chap - like you or me - but you could tell he meant every word.

Stuart I don't agree with much of what you say but do try to avoid picking you up on it but this I can't let go. I'm "a bloke in his 50s" who "spoke from his heart" about why I will renew my season ticket and continue to watch Rovers next season but for you my reasons are "anchored in nostalgia." A marcher of similar vintage gets up on his feet and addresses the crowd from his heart, perhaps he hankers after years gone by, and you suggest others are being disrespectful and cheap towards him. Are you not being disrespectful and cheap yourself by dismissing my reasons for renewing my STs as nothing more than nostalgic? It is afterall two fans simply saying what they believe, for you one is valid, the other dismissed out of hand.

However, you are spot on about one thing, it is only my opinion and you are entitled to disagree but I make no apology because it's something I feel strongly about, and dismissive comments such like EWOODACE1's are sadly representitive of a lot of fans. They mutter and grumble and expect other people to do something. Well some other people are doing something and they deserve a bit more credit than they are getting.

I'm leaving this bit alone because it's not relevant to me

I'll tell you what though I bet that a greater percentage of those who are protesting will renew than the percentage of non-protesters.

Originally I supported the protests till I discovered the background. I am going to renew my ST which you dismiss as "anchored in nostalgia" but you are praising the protesters who renew. So if someone protests and renews there is no problem, if some renews but doesn't protest it's based on nothing but nostalgia?

You make a lot of posts and here you have slipped right into BRAG mode - anyone who disagrees with BRAG is wrong, everyone who supports BRAG is right. I don't know if you are aware of things which BRAG members / supporters have done, which have not been publicised? if you did, and I have direct personal experience of this, you might be a little slower in your criticism of those who do not march.

I have yet to meet one supporter, and I'm talking of people aged from early 20s to mid 60s, who support BRAG. The most common reference being "do we want these people representing us?" The answer has always been a firm No.

[sambo]

What's the issue with the background of the protests? I genuinely don't know what you're referring to.

Went today, glad I did. Not going to hammer those who didn't, although I'm not sure why some don't bother (circumstances allowing).

[SAS]

Yep you succeeded in making Blackburn fans look completely idiotic and like we were unhappy we were winning the game and therefore might have a slight chance of staying up.

Way to go.

No your wrong.

Singing kean and Venkys out when we lose but not when we win is idiotic. At 2-0 we sung with a great passion and anger that the media may finally 'get'. It wasn't because we were losing like at Bolton, it was a serious message. I wish this had happened when the venkys were here at the Liverpool game.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Stuart I don't agree with much of what you say but do try to avoid picking you up on it but this I can't let go. I'm "a bloke in his 50s" who "spoke from his heart" about why I will renew my season ticket and continue to watch Rovers next season but for you my reasons are "anchored in nostalgia." A marcher of similar vintage gets up on his feet and addresses the crowd from his heart, perhaps he hankers after years gone by, and you suggest others are being disrespectful and cheap towards him. Are you not being disrespectful and cheap yourself by dismissing my reasons for renewing my STs as nothing more than nostalgic? It is afterall two fans simply saying what they believe, for you one is valid, the other dismissed out of hand.

I'm leaving this bit alone because it's not relevant to me

Originally I supported the protests till I discovered the background. I am going to renew my ST which you dismiss as "anchored in nostalgia" but you are praising the protesters who renew. So if someone protests and renews there is no problem, if some renews but doesn't protest it's based on nothing but nostalgia?

You make a lot of posts and here you have slipped right into BRAG mode - anyone who disagrees with BRAG is wrong, everyone who supports BRAG is right. I don't know if you are aware of things which BRAG members / supporters have done, which have not been publicised? if you did, and I have direct personal experience of this, you might be a little slower in your criticism of those who do not march.

I have yet to meet one supporter, and I'm talking of people aged from early 20s to mid 60s, who support BRAG. The most common reference being "do we want these people representing us?" The answer has always been a firm No.

[Stuart]

Paul, I apologise. My "anchored in nostalgia" phrase has clearly hit a nerve. Reading the sequence of posts back again, it was a little dismissive and again I'm sorry, it wasn't meant to be.

The bloke I listened to at Ewood today didn't talk about his best memories of being a Rovers fan, he talked about the people he was addressing and about how we should be proud of what the protests have done, and it was far from as eloquent as your many posts.

However, your renewal-inspiring post didn't talk about anything of the future of Rovers. Just about your support over the years and your memories about the club. Whilst these are wonderful - and I literally had tears in my eyes reading yours (amongst other) posts in the Premier League memories thread - these are not necessarily, IMHO, the right reasons for renewing under Venkys.

The days when were properly run and even pre-Jack's days when it was all about scrimping and saving to make sure we could put a team out - it WAS all about football. Now it isn't. Football, is (at least) second under the Venky's regime. The Premier League a distant third or lower.

In my opinion, the only good reason to renew is to keep the club ticking over until proper owners can be found - maybe that's what you meant. The memories of the good and hard times are important and great to regale people with. But I'm more interested in the club being here, in the future, for my kids to support.

To be fair, there are many posts of yours I don't agree with but I don't pick you up on them all. Even if SAR may disagree.

Again, it was more whistful a comment than dismissive and I apologise for any offence caused.

[Paul]

What's the issue with the background of the protests? I genuinely don't know what you're referring to.

Went today, glad I did. Not going to hammer those who didn't, although I'm not sure why some don't bother (circumstances allowing).

I'm not going into detail other than to say BRAG are unable to accept people have different views and they will go to some length in their attempts to silence those views. I do not believe that is the correct way to behave..

Paul, I apologise. My "anchored in nostalgia" phrase has clearly hit a nerve. Reading the sequence of posts back again, it was a little dismissive and again I'm sorry, it wasn't meant to be.

You haven't hit a nerve, I'm merely pointing out you applied double standards.

However, your renewal-inspiring post didn't talk about anything of the future of Rovers. Just about your support over the years and your memories about the club. Whilst these are wonderful - and I literally had tears in my eyes reading yours (amongst other) posts in the Premier League memories thread - these are not necessarily, IMHO, the right reasons for renewing under Venkys.

That's because it's a discussion about wheter or not people will renew.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Paul. I've often enjoyed reading your posts as they are well thought out and reasoned. I marched today, not because I support BRAG or want them to represent me but simply because I'm unhappy with what has happened to my club and apart from in the ground, this is the only way I can vent my frustration. As I'm sure you'll appreciate from your early participation in the marches.

I don't believe that the marches have achieved much, nor will they. The chanting during the second half did more in 90 seconds than 6 months of protests. Having said that, even if it keeps a miniscule amount of pressure on the club, then marching is a worthwhile exercise.

I have no idea about the 'politics' that you refer to or agendas etc. For me and probably many others attending the protest, it is simply a means to an end.

I want Rovers to win, I want us to survive but I can't stomach another year under Venkys/Kean, they have taken the sense of community and spirit out of the club.

[Stuart]

You make a lot of posts and here you have slipped right into BRAG mode - anyone who disagrees with BRAG is wrong, everyone who supports BRAG is right. I don't know if you are aware of things which BRAG members / supporters have done, which have not been publicised? if you did, and I have direct personal experience of this, you might be a little slower in your criticism of those who do not march.

I have yet to meet one supporter, and I'm talking of people aged from early 20s to mid 60s, who support BRAG. The most common reference being "do we want these people representing us?" The answer has always been a firm No.

This isn't about BRAG, this is about what I think personally. So how can it be that I think those who don't support BRAG are wrong.

The problem is, who else is doing anything? Of all the people who don't want to be represented by BRAG, what are they doing? What groups are they setting up? For example, what are the Fans Forum doing - a group who are set up to represent fans. I think we can all agree the Venkys have been, and continue to be, bad for the club. How is the FF helping to put pressure on them? A statement saying they are 'disappointed'?

When I join a march, I don't do it under the guise of being a BRAG supporter (I'm not a member of BRAG), I do it as a concerned BRFC supporter. I didn't see any BRAG signs, no-one even uttered the word. A march is the most peaceful, visible, and law abiding type of protest that can be carried out - which is why public sector workers have them, it's why the police force are holding one in London next month. Alternative protests are either gimmicky or unlikely to have any traction.

But even if people don't like marching, many people won't even stand up in the Riverside, nor join in chants. They don't want to seem visibily moving from the status quo - yet they are happy to grumble under their breath - some even shake their heads.

If BRAG are so underhand, please post these things BRAG have done though so we can make our minds up. Will you put it out there?

You haven't hit a nerve, I'm merely pointing out you applied double standards.

No I didn't.

That's because it's a discussion about wheter or not people will renew.

You've lost me there.

Paul. I've often enjoyed reading your posts as they are well thought out and reasoned. I marched today, not because I support BRAG or want them to represent me but simply because I'm unhappy with what has happened to my club and apart from in the ground, this is the only way I can vent my frustration. As I'm sure you'll appreciate from your early participation in the marches.

I don't believe that the marches have achieved much, nor will they. The chanting during the second half did more in 90 seconds than 6 months of protests. Having said that, even if it keeps a miniscule amount of pressure on the club, then marching is a worthwhile exercise.

I have no idea about the 'politics' that you refer to or agendas etc. For me and probably many others attending the protest, it is simply a means to an end.

I want Rovers to win, I want us to survive but I can't stomach another year under Venkys/Kean, they have taken the sense of community and spirit out of the club.

Much better phrased than I've managed this evening. Spot on.

[EWOODACE1]

I took my 9 year old on the march. There were many children there (and old folks). I want my lad to be able to say he stood up for something he believed in, he fought for his club. Not be able to remember watching a 0-0 game between two London teams on a big screen behind the Blackburn end stand. It may not change the world but it might be the final straw, it might not, but at least me and my lad can say we tried.

I can see that I'm not going to be able to convince you of much, Stu, so nothing I can say will convince you these people are not "self-serving" as you put it. (Have you spoken to any of them?). You can only find that out by going along to one of these marches/protests and seeing how they are organised. If you could have seen Glen simply blending in with the other orange-bibbed men and women who were stewarding the protests making sure that everyone was safe, that no-one got arrested, or run over! He didn't grab the limelight or try to be seen as the protest leader. If you could have seen the bloke in his 50s who got up to address the crowd outside the Jack Walker stand. He was so far out of his comfort zone it was amazing he even had the guts to get up there. But he did. His voice was shaking and he clearly hadn't prepared a speech, but he spoke from the heart. It's disrespectful, and a little cheap, to call these people self-serving - and I bet you wouldn't to his face. He was just an ordinary chap - like you or me - but you could tell he meant every word. (I can think of several people who are self-serving though! )

However, you are spot on about one thing, it is only my opinion and you are entitled to disagree but I make no apology because it's something I feel strongly about, and dismissive comments such like EWOODACE1's are sadly representive of a lot of fans. They mutter and grumble and expect other people to do something. Well some other people are doing something and they deserve a bit more credit than they are getting.

I'll tell you what though I bet that a greater percentage of those who are protesting will renew than the percentage of non-protesters.

see this is your problem stuart. all you want to do is argue and nothing else. you started off by calling fans who don't see the same views as yourself. you stated that people who dont march don't deserve a club or are happy with the way it run. why is this? because we wouldn't walk with you.

i said in a previous post that i appreciate what the protesters do but its not something that i want to be involved in. why is that dismissive? if you are anything to go by then i am glad i chose to stay away. your even using me in a discussion with somebody else saying something that isn't true. i was just trying to point out that because you march doesn't mean you or anyone else deserves a club more than the next person and a lot of the protesters need to stop pointing the finger at other fans.

i'm going to leave this discussion now as i don't believe that me and somebody moaning at each other is helpful or interesting for other members.

i hope future marches go well for you guys and it does bring results as the only thing that matters is brfc and any outcome that is positive for the club is a bonus but lets not turn it into a who is a better fan competition. that was my point and nothing to do with being dismissive

[roverandout]

sad to say i didnt go on march even though i usually go to every one, i despise venkys and kean and sung my heat out when the chants started, i didnt go because the people i usually go with couldnt make it, anyone who slags off the protestors clearly have their heads up kean's and venkys arses

[AndyNeil]

The chanting during the second half did more in 90 seconds than 6 months of protests.

The match situation, spontaneity and passion with which the "we want Venkys out" chant was sung made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. People around me who never utter a word against Kean were singing, and this IMO showed the feelings of 'Joe Public' more than any march could (not that I have any objection to the general aim of the marches).

As a sidenote, I noticed a rather large (day trip group I presume) at the back of the family stand with flags from Qatar...

[mjs]

IMO the protest served a purpose and set the tone for the day.

Would the venkys out chant have broke out if the march hadnt taken place?

Either way the focus has to be on aiming it at venkys from now on. Lets face it, if they go then Kean will follow.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I'm another fan who doesn't deserve a club then, along with hundreds of others walking down Livesey Brand Road at 10 to 3, some even with the "protest" yellow stuff.

I said all along that, while the goal of the protests is fine, the tactics were ill-thought out. The We want Venky's Out chant showed exactly the flaw in the marches. Everyone could easily join in the chant and it was almost guaranteed to be on telly. Marches for anything almost never attract enough people to achieve their goal and to blame non-attendees for their failure is simply buck-passing.

8 of us went today and not one expressed any opinion at all about protests, marches etc.

[Stuart]

Marches for anything almost never attract enough people to achieve their goal and to blame non-attendees for their failure is simply buck-passing.

It really isn't.

The marches and protests are defined by the numbers taking part. If 10,000 fans had turned out, the media would have sat up and the club would have had to react.

Buck-passing is doing nothing and expecting someone else to act. And then bleating about how unhappy we are.

We will be relegated because of rank bad ownership and rank bad management - not protesters or non-protesters. That's just noise.

But I'm sick of being sneered at by people who don't want to do anything to bring about a change.

[AndyNeil]

But I'm sick of being sneered at by people who don't want to do anything to bring about a change.

With the flip side being people who don't protest categorised as "Rovers Fans" or even worse "pro Kean/Venkys".

[hesfromburn]

It really isn't.

The marches and protests are defined by the numbers taking part. If 10,000 fans had turned out, the media would have sat up and the club would have had to react.

Buck-passing is doing nothing and expecting someone else to act. And then bleating about how unhappy we are.

We will be relegated because of rank bad ownership and rank bad management - not protesters or non-protesters. That's just noise.

But I'm sick of being sneered at by people who don't want to do anything to bring about a change.

So you must be the ambassador of this mighty march?

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

With the flip side being people who don't protest categorised as "Rovers Fans" or even worse "pro Kean/Venkys".

I think today showed that 90% of fans are disillusioned with the owners/Kean. The atmosphere of backing the team and getting frustrations across was excellent. As the BBC match report highlighted.

[chaddyrovers]

how many people went on march today???

heard so many different numbers

[S60tti_BRFC]

If we are relegated by or have been already, then the wigan game could be one massive spontaneous protest on different levels to what we have seen before.

As for today, good effort to those who showed up. 'Moments come and go, memories last forever'

[Parsonblue]

how many people went on march today???

heard so many different numbers

I don't think that was the important part of today. For me it was when all four sides of the ground began chanting "Venky's Out" and " Kean Out". Even in the Jack Walker Upper it was sung loudly. Not even Agnew and Kean can sweep the widespread discontent under the carpet anymore. They might be able to play down the numbers on marches but they can't hide the numbers voicing their disatisfaction this afternoon despite being 2-0 up. If Venky's were still in any doubt that they are not welcome today must surely have proved that once and for all.

[Mercer]

how many people went on march today???

heard so many different numbers

I'd say no more than 300 based upon what I saw as they approached ground along Bolton Road.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

I don't think that was the important part of today. For me it was when all four sides of the ground began chanting "Venky's Out" and " Kean Out". Even in the Jack Walker Upper it was sung loudly. Not even Agnew and Kean can sweep the widespread discontent under the carpet anymore. They might be able to play down the numbers on marches but they can't hide the numbers voicing their disatisfaction this afternoon despite being 2-0 up. If Venky's were still in any doubt that they are not welcome today must surely have proved that once and for all.

Correct. Today was a watershed, the press actually picked up on what we've been saying all year - We support the team but not the owners/management