[Archived] Is it just me?

[Athlete]

I can't help but feel the relegation conspiracy is more than a little far-fetched. It will not have been the original plan but it may well be the current plan.

Months ago I pointed out Balaji has walked away from previously failed ventures. At the same time I postulated summer administration was likely.

The most likely situation is having discovered they had been sold a pup Venky's decided to attempt to run the business on a small or smaller budget. Couple this with the need to pay of debt and we see the beginnings of this plan with the Jones sale.

We flirted dangerously close with relegation as the season progressed and another decision was made - no investment, no point in good money after bad, and wait and see what happens while cutting costs to the bare minimum. By taking this action debt has reduced to circa £10m.

If by chance Kean avoided relegation there would be another season to perhaps try to resolve the issues. With this season going so badly the Raos probably made this decision in November.

I stll believe, as said months ago, we will be fortunate if there is a club to watch in August.

No conspiracy theory just an unwillingness to spend money no one told them was needed. Massively reduce spending, see what happens, fails, lock the door.

Anyone know about Balaji's film company? Same situation, same result.

Having said that, and in my personal opinion for which I have no evidence, I believe the Liverpool match may have been engineered to avoid a victory.

Paul you may be very very close to the truth there !

[PAFELL]

From what I am told Plod are too busy reading this board to bother about proper criminals.

That would not surprise me either

[Miker]

Paul, I'll make a few comments here.

A film company is vastly different from a football club. I doubt anyone cared much about Balaji's film company failing, especially Bollywood where there must be thousands of film makers trying to be successful. The company wasn't in the public eye as much as Rovers and certainly didn't have thousands of people dependent on the club's success.

By my calculations of the figures mentioned by various journalists and from the accounts, we should be virtually debt free by the end of the season (depending on whether or not certain transfer fees were paid in full or in chunks).

Two things have obviously happened that have greatly affected decision making at the club since the start of the season. The bank demanded debts to be paid by the end of the season and there seem to have been instructions to reduce the wage bill and the overall operational cost. I don't think they have made any deliberate action to get relegated, but it seems that since January they have been doing damage limitation in the event of relegation. Generally if a club is struggling in the league by January and relegation is likely you will be faced with two options... bankroll the club to try and get them out of it or start cutting costs to minimise the damage and hope for the best. I am certain that they would have looked at the situation and decided that the squad may be good enough to survive even with cost-cutting and this option presented the lowest risk to them and the club. It'll be interesting to see the fate of us and QPR by the end of the season because we took 2 very different approaches to the threat of relegation.

Personally, I don't think they will let the club go into administration. I am basing this on 2 things. First, they have already put money into the club to cover part of the debt. 10m last season to cover the 18m gap, and a couple of million this season at the demand of the bank. This suggests to me that they can pay and will if they have no other choice, but they are clearly reluctant to part with huge chunks of their own cash at the behest of banks or agents. Secondly, letting the club go into administration will be an unmitigated disaster for them.

One thing that has really stuck out for me in the whole media storm were Keith Andrews' words when he left us. It was something along the lines of "I have never spoken to the owners. There were so many finance directors, sporting directors and god-knows-what directors there. I had to get out".

In my personal view, the whole management at the club has spun out of control. There seems to be a lack of communication between Brockhall, Ewood Park and Pune... I get the feeling there are too many people exerting power on the club that shouldn't be.

Having said that, what has gone on this season has been absolutely horrendous. The fact that the management of the club was allowed to descend into such chaos is inexcusable, but I doubt the Raos are looking for excuses. Their silence is the most telling indication that they have realised they have majorly screwed up. It is obvious that they are unable to effectively run the club from India and give it the time it deserves.

[Paul]

GhI wouldn't argue with your summary Miker and I certainly don't believe relegation followed by administration was the plan.

I feel the cost cutting measures have been put in place for two reasons; as a preempt for relegation and an unwillingness to fund what may be a lost cause. A part of the cost-cutting will be, I feel, a "wait and see" strategy. If the losses / potential future costs are seen as too great administration is a strong possibility. If it is to be avoided further cost cutting may be required?

[Mercer]

GhI wouldn't argue with your summary Miker and I certainly don't believe relegation followed by administration was the plan.

I feel the cost cutting measures have been put in place for two reasons; as a preempt for relegation and an unwillingness to fund what may be a lost cause. A part of the cost-cutting will be, I feel, a "wait and see" strategy. If the losses / potential future costs are seen as too great administration is a strong possibility. If it is to be avoided further cost cutting may be required?

IMO, our finances are unbelievably stretched. Rumours on this MB about some Admin. staff not being paid on Friday. I think we are now literally hand to mouth!

[philipl]

If the cash is that stretched and paying the monthly staff (including the £4m paybill for players and HMRC) is an issue, then if the brothers did not include a visit to Barclays Bank during their recent flying visit things could cut up very rough indeed.

[BuckyRover]

If the cash is that stretched and paying the monthly staff (including the £4m paybill for players and HMRC) is an issue, then if the brothers did not include a visit to Barclays Bank during their recent flying visit things could cut up very rough indeed.

Maybe that's why Balaij had a haircut? To meet the Bank

[PAFELL]

Paul, I'll make a few comments here.

A film company is vastly different from a football club. I doubt anyone cared much about Balaji's film company failing, especially Bollywood where there must be thousands of film makers trying to be successful. The company wasn't in the public eye as much as Rovers and certainly didn't have thousands of people dependent on the club's success.

By my calculations of the figures mentioned by various journalists and from the accounts, we should be virtually debt free by the end of the season (depending on whether or not certain transfer fees were paid in full or in chunks).

Two things have obviously happened that have greatly affected decision making at the club since the start of the season. The bank demanded debts to be paid by the end of the season and there seem to have been instructions to reduce the wage bill and the overall operational cost. I don't think they have made any deliberate action to get relegated, but it seems that since January they have been doing damage limitation in the event of relegation. Generally if a club is struggling in the league by January and relegation is likely you will be faced with two options... bankroll the club to try and get them out of it or start cutting costs to minimise the damage and hope for the best. I am certain that they would have looked at the situation and decided that the squad may be good enough to survive even with cost-cutting and this option presented the lowest risk to them and the club. It'll be interesting to see the fate of us and QPR by the end of the season because we took 2 very different approaches to the threat of relegation.

Personally, I don't think they will let the club go into administration. I am basing this on 2 things. First, they have already put money into the club to cover part of the debt. 10m last season to cover the 18m gap, and a couple of million this season at the demand of the bank. This suggests to me that they can pay and will if they have no other choice, but they are clearly reluctant to part with huge chunks of their own cash at the behest of banks or agents. Secondly, letting the club go into administration will be an unmitigated disaster for them.

One thing that has really stuck out for me in the whole media storm were Keith Andrews' words when he left us. It was something along the lines of "I have never spoken to the owners. There were so many finance directors, sporting directors and god-knows-what directors there. I had to get out".

In my personal view, the whole management at the club has spun out of control. There seems to be a lack of communication between Brockhall, Ewood Park and Pune... I get the feeling there are too many people exerting power on the club that shouldn't be.

Having said that, what has gone on this season has been absolutely horrendous. The fact that the management of the club was allowed to descend into such chaos is inexcusable, but I doubt the Raos are looking for excuses. Their silence is the most telling indication that they have realised they have majorly screwed up. It is obvious that they are unable to effectively run the club from India and give it the time it deserves.

Who do you think advised them that the squad was good enough, considering they do not know much about football?

[TBTF]

Paul, I'll make a few comments here.

A film company is vastly different from a football club. I doubt anyone cared much about Balaji's film company failing, especially Bollywood where there must be thousands of film makers trying to be successful. The company wasn't in the public eye as much as Rovers and certainly didn't have thousands of people dependent on the club's success.

By my calculations of the figures mentioned by various journalists and from the accounts, we should be virtually debt free by the end of the season (depending on whether or not certain transfer fees were paid in full or in chunks).

Two things have obviously happened that have greatly affected decision making at the club since the start of the season. The bank demanded debts to be paid by the end of the season and there seem to have been instructions to reduce the wage bill and the overall operational cost. I don't think they have made any deliberate action to get relegated, but it seems that since January they have been doing damage limitation in the event of relegation. Generally if a club is struggling in the league by January and relegation is likely you will be faced with two options... bankroll the club to try and get them out of it or start cutting costs to minimise the damage and hope for the best. I am certain that they would have looked at the situation and decided that the squad may be good enough to survive even with cost-cutting and this option presented the lowest risk to them and the club. It'll be interesting to see the fate of us and QPR by the end of the season because we took 2 very different approaches to the threat of relegation.

Personally, I don't think they will let the club go into administration. I am basing this on 2 things. First, they have already put money into the club to cover part of the debt. 10m last season to cover the 18m gap, and a couple of million this season at the demand of the bank. This suggests to me that they can pay and will if they have no other choice, but they are clearly reluctant to part with huge chunks of their own cash at the behest of banks or agents. Secondly, letting the club go into administration will be an unmitigated disaster for them.

One thing that has really stuck out for me in the whole media storm were Keith Andrews' words when he left us. It was something along the lines of "I have never spoken to the owners. There were so many finance directors, sporting directors and god-knows-what directors there. I had to get out".

In my personal view, the whole management at the club has spun out of control. There seems to be a lack of communication between Brockhall, Ewood Park and Pune... I get the feeling there are too many people exerting power on the club that shouldn't be.

Having said that, what has gone on this season has been absolutely horrendous. The fact that the management of the club was allowed to descend into such chaos is inexcusable, but I doubt the Raos are looking for excuses. Their silence is the most telling indication that they have realised they have majorly screwed up. It is obvious that they are unable to effectively run the club from India and give it the time it deserves.

hard to argue with any of that Miker lad but having drawn your conclusion would you like to offer any clue as to what may happen next in Rao Rao land then if Administration is not the likely outcome?

[SamDingle]

If I'd bought your club instead of the Venkys, I can't think of a single thing I'd have done differently.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but it does all seem a bit too perfect.

[tomphil]

If I'd bought your club instead of the Venkys, I can't think of a single thing I'd have done differently.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but it does all seem a bit too perfect.

Well said ! It prob wasn't plan A or even B but a plan it is and it's being executed to perfection.

[ABBEY]

If I'd bought your club instead of the Venkys, I can't think of a single thing I'd have done differently.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but it does all seem a bit too perfect.

Samantha we are wound up enough without you taking the venky!!! If you must post have some respect like longers does.

[Amo]

Samantha we are wound up enough without you taking the venky!!! If you must post have some respect like longers does.

What was up with his post?

[SouthAussieRover]

What was up with his post?

It wasn't humorous enough for Abigail.

[joey_big_nose]

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

1) Anderson sells idea of buying club to Venky's on promises on return on investment and boosted profile

2) Anderson and Kean sell to Venky's their ability to do a better and cheaper job than Allardyce. Allardyce sacked.

3) Venkys realise they are not at all prepared for costs associated to running football club

4) Venkys fall out with Anderson, due to costs, who is jettisoned. Find they are all at sea without a scooby about how torun a football club

5) Total paralysis. Only consistent message is to minimise costs as far as possible while an exit strategy is sought.

[BuckyRover]

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

1) Anderson sells idea of buying club to Venky's on promises on return on investment and boosted profile

2) Anderson and Kean sell to Venky's their ability to do a better and cheaper job than Allardyce. Allardyce sacked.

3) Venkys realise they are not at all prepared for costs associated to running football club

4) Venkys fall out with Anderson, due to costs, who is jettisoned. Find they are all at sea without a scooby about how torun a football club

5) Total paralysis. Only consistent message is to minimise costs as far as possible while an exit strategy is sought.

That's pretty much how I see it as well. The most obvious answer is usually the correct one. I think the banks influence was probably first felt between points 2 and 3.

[Amo]

5) Total paralysis. Only consistent message is to minimise costs as far as possible while an exit strategy is sought.

I was following you until this part. Not only will the club lose out big time from relegation, and certain 'assets' will be able to leave on the cheap due to relegation clauses, the club itself will also become a less attractive proposition for potential buyers. So why contrive to give us the worst possible chance of staying in this league for the sake of a few grand?

[CAPT KAYOS]

I was following you until this part.

I don't follow this, as surely points 2 &4 would counteract ie fall out with Andersen should have given good reason to then boot the buffoon out the door also.

Given what has happened, it does appear that there is intention in some form as Theno states as it cannot be believed to be down to pure 'error' alone ( with possibility a Bunleh connection somewhere as surely nobody else could have done what they have done without 'pure hate' for the club?)

Its like trying to fathom out what was happening in 'Lost' which aptly names the whole situation.

Paul the situation you give rise to, fits into what I said at the time of the Jones 'er gate' in that the V's where not being duped into 'wasting' money and appeared to be a good thing at the time, but what has continued since does not fit into this module theory imo.

[TBTF]

I don't follow this, as surely points 2 &4 would counteract ie fall out with Andersen should have given good reason to then boot the buffoon out the door also.

Given what has happened, it does appear that there is intention in some form as Theno states as it cannot be believed to be down to pure 'error' alone ( with possibility a Bunleh connection somewhere as surely nobody else could have done what they have done without 'pure hate' for the club?)

Its like trying to fathom out what was happening in 'Lost' which aptly names the whole situation.

Paul the situation you give rise to, fits into what I said at the time of the Jones 'er gate' in that the V's where not being duped into 'wasting' money and appeared to be a good thing at the time, but what has continued since does not fit into this module theory imo.

and we think Venky's will now do what exactly?? Between us we have come up with every plot and sub plot and got the analysis pretty much sorted.But for me its not any longer about what they have done (because thats not even worth talking about -scum) but more about what they do now with their investment and going forward from this point.I am sure that part of that exercise will reveal a whole host of carnage and skullduggery at many many levels.

[CAPT KAYOS]

and we think Venky's will now do what exactly?? Between us we have come up with every plot and sub plot and got the analysis pretty much sorted.But for me its not any longer about what they have done (because thats not even worth talking about -scum) but more about what they do now with their investment and going forward from this point.I am sure that part of that exercise will reveal a whole host of carnage and skullduggery at many many levels.

But that's the thing TBTF - noboy knows and nothing adds up and can't be put down to naivety or just mistake.

There is something really 'dark' about it all as you refer to.

There are countless theories and thoughts on here and all have justification of sort, and rolled into one the truth will be there somewhere - the question is whether out of this mess a phoenix is waiting to fly or a black hole is just sucking us further into .........

[earplug]

There are some very good points made in this thread. Much of what has been posted about the sense that something is very wrong has been the opinion of a fair number of people since November 2010. What's happened since has served to confirm people's worst fears. I think the thing is summed up by Formica's situation. He's started the majority of matches this season; he's rarely contributed anything worthwhile. He's barely a footballer let alone one up to the standard required. Yet; it's taken until recently for him to be omitted (when fit). Why? Fair enough it could be a 'football' oddity that's behind his constant appearances, some of the staff may see things in him that we don't. Or it could be part of the overall 'experiment'.

[Athlete]

There are some very good points made in this thread. Much of what has been posted about the sense that something is very wrong has been the opinion of a fair number of people since November 2010. What's happened since has served to confirm people's worst fears. I think the thing is summed up by Formica's situation. He's started the majority of matches this season; he's rarely contributed anything worthwhile. He's barely a footballer let alone one up to the standard required. Yet; it's taken until recently for him to be omitted (when fit). Why? Fair enough it could be a 'football' oddity that's behind his constant appearances, some of the staff may see things in him that we don't. Or it could be part of the overall 'experiment'.

the last sentenance as a lot of substance about it..was a dodgy signing in the 1st place then they tried to punt him in January.....very strange one but if there was a plan it hasn't materialised

[joey_big_nose]

I was following you until this part. Not only will the club lose out big time from relegation, and certain 'assets' will be able to leave on the cheap due to relegation clauses, the club itself will also become a less attractive proposition for potential buyers. So why contrive to give us the worst possible chance of staying in this league for the sake of a few grand?

Yes, but my thinking is Venkys have looked at the situation and realised that:-

*They don't now how to run a football club so cannot intervene effectively - any cash invested could be (and has been) badly spent. It is no panacea.

*They do not trust that Kean knows how to run a football club so do not want to back him to spend the cash

*They have no more money they are willing to speculate in the football club anyway.

From their perspective a 'do nothing' attitude makes sense as there is a decent chance that any money thrown at the situation could makeno difference or, indeed, make things worse as they have no idea what they are doing. They don't trust anyone.

Also they know even if we are relegated selling players and parachute payments will balance the books, at least in the short term. They might be able to get out while only making a modest loss.

[Stuart]

the last sentenance as a lot of substance about it..was a dodgy signing in the 1st place then they tried to punt him in January.....very strange one but if there was a plan it hasn't materialised

Short term sell-on for profit? Evidently it failed, so we are now stuck with a wage we can't afford?

I actually thought Formica had become much more integral to the team since Christmas - more in a Robbie Savage capacity to be fair but definitely a grafter.

[Athlete]

Short term sell-on for profit? Evidently it failed, so we are now stuck with a wage we can't afford?

I actually thought Formica had become much more integral to the team since Christmas - more in a Robbie Savage capacity to be fair but definitely a grafter.

no doubt he has talent ( a la carlos Villeneuava) but not good enougth like Ruben - that was possibly the plan on a certain agents say so..

As for grafters I haven't seen many of them in a Rovers shirt for quite some time our Midfield and defence especially - certain players last Saturday really don't deserve to get paid after the shift they put in at Swansea ( mind you theres rumours about wages for the end of the month anyhow - do they know something ?? )

Nothing at Rovers whats happened since the start of the Venkys/Kean/Agnew/Anderson roadshow has made any logical sense whatsoever...

I can not think of one good thing whats happened !