[Archived] Is it just me?

[Alex Rover]

Very good point that I hadn't thought of before (apologies if this has been mentioned before) but Kamy has retweeted the below from a fellow Rover:

@makey_11

My prediction: as soon as #rovers are mathamaticly down, theyl go into administration and take the 10 points then rather than next season.

[Waggy76]

Very good point that I hadn't thought of before (apologies if this has been mentioned before) but a fellow Rover says:

@makey_11

My prediction: as soon as #rovers are mathamaticly down, theyl go into administration and take the 10 points then rather than next season.

I thought that had been outlawed by the governing body ..

[Stuart]

Question (as good a thread as any):

If Rovers do go into administration, will season tickets be honoured? And would there be a difference between paying all up front or via direct debit? As a creditor or debtor.

Thanks in advance.

[cn174]

Question (as good a thread as any):

If Rovers do go into administration, will season tickets be honoured? And would there be a difference between paying all up front or via direct debit? As a creditor or debtor.

Thanks in advance.

Good question! Surely they would still stand because you can carry on trading in administration cant you, and we'd still be playing (hopefully).

There may be a difference between up front and DD though - different I know but currently at GAME you can still buy stuff, but they're not honouring things like the loyalty reward points or gift cards.

Doesn't answer your question at all mind!!

[joey_big_nose]

Short term sell-on for profit? Evidently it failed, so we are now stuck with a wage we can't afford?

I actually thought Formica had become much more integral to the team since Christmas - more in a Robbie Savage capacity to be fair but definitely a grafter.

To be honest I don't think there is anything dodgy about whether or not Formica has been played. His appearences appear relatively understandable. Dunn has been better in the hole. Hoilett has been better on the wing. Therefore he has fallen out of the team.

The perculiar selections (or lack of) are Vukcevic, Roberts, Nelsen, Salgado and now Givet. What still hab't been ironed out - for me at least - is whether these players have been dropped becuause they fell out with the manager or cost too much in appearence clauses?

[2k.]

I thought that had been outlawed by the governing body ..

I thought the same... Didn't Leeds try that trick a few years and got deducted points both for the current and subsequent season?

[PLJPB]

Question (as good a thread as any):

If Rovers do go into administration, will season tickets be honoured? And would there be a difference between paying all up front or via direct debit? As a creditor or debtor.

Make sure you pay by credit card

Thanks in advance.

[Lathund]

Paul, I'll make a few comments here.

A film company is vastly different from a football club. I doubt anyone cared much about Balaji's film company failing, especially Bollywood where there must be thousands of film makers trying to be successful. The company wasn't in the public eye as much as Rovers and certainly didn't have thousands of people dependent on the club's success.

By my calculations of the figures mentioned by various journalists and from the accounts, we should be virtually debt free by the end of the season (depending on whether or not certain transfer fees were paid in full or in chunks).

Two things have obviously happened that have greatly affected decision making at the club since the start of the season. The bank demanded debts to be paid by the end of the season and there seem to have been instructions to reduce the wage bill and the overall operational cost. I don't think they have made any deliberate action to get relegated, but it seems that since January they have been doing damage limitation in the event of relegation. Generally if a club is struggling in the league by January and relegation is likely you will be faced with two options... bankroll the club to try and get them out of it or start cutting costs to minimise the damage and hope for the best. I am certain that they would have looked at the situation and decided that the squad may be good enough to survive even with cost-cutting and this option presented the lowest risk to them and the club. It'll be interesting to see the fate of us and QPR by the end of the season because we took 2 very different approaches to the threat of relegation.

Personally, I don't think they will let the club go into administration. I am basing this on 2 things. First, they have already put money into the club to cover part of the debt. 10m last season to cover the 18m gap, and a couple of million this season at the demand of the bank. This suggests to me that they can pay and will if they have no other choice, but they are clearly reluctant to part with huge chunks of their own cash at the behest of banks or agents. Secondly, letting the club go into administration will be an unmitigated disaster for them.

One thing that has really stuck out for me in the whole media storm were Keith Andrews' words when he left us. It was something along the lines of "I have never spoken to the owners. There were so many finance directors, sporting directors and god-knows-what directors there. I had to get out".

In my personal view, the whole management at the club has spun out of control. There seems to be a lack of communication between Brockhall, Ewood Park and Pune... I get the feeling there are too many people exerting power on the club that shouldn't be.

Having said that, what has gone on this season has been absolutely horrendous. The fact that the management of the club was allowed to descend into such chaos is inexcusable, but I doubt the Raos are looking for excuses. Their silence is the most telling indication that they have realised they have majorly screwed up. It is obvious that they are unable to effectively run the club from India and give it the time it deserves.

I think you're onto something.

I think they've pretty much given up on the club, and written off the money paid so far (£23m (?) to buy the club, and whatever else they've put in since) as lost. They're now looking to reduce or eliminate the debt, perhaps to make it easier to sell the club and recoup some of that £20m. Like ou say I don't think they want relegation, but also aren't willing to spend money if there would still be a significant risk of getting relegated anyway.

As a side note: What if we had gotten relegated last season, during a year we took huge financial losses? A while back I looked at the players we've sold and signed (And who's contract expire after this season) since the end of last season, and by some rough calculations our wage bill should be £5-£10m lower now. That's a lot of money for a Championship club. We're still going to be up ###### creek without a paddle, but at least the boat will be less leaky.

As far as these conspiracy theories go, I don't buy them. For the very simple reason that none of them make sense. There would have to be something to gain, some kind of motivation behind it all, and I can't see any. I also struggle to comprehend how Venkys can be so gullible, incompetent, stupid and stubborn, but I suppose that human stupidity knows no boundaries.

[Athlete]

somewhere out there is the truth and I'd bet it isn't good for Rovers and defo not for the fans....we have been had by the Charlatans

[blueboy3333]

I think you're onto something.

As a side note: What if we had gotten relegated last season, during a year we took huge financial losses? A while back I looked at the players we've sold and signed (And who's contract expire after this season) since the end of last season, and by some rough calculations our wage bill should be £5-£10m lower now. That's a lot of money for a Championship club. We're still going to be up ###### creek without a paddle, but at least the boat will be less leaky.

Lathund, i think you might be pretty close there . Again, only rough calculations. I think the wage bill at the end of last season was approx 55m. These players have left since then or will this summer. I've done a rough estimate of what each was on.

Brown £500k pa (pure guess)

Salgado £1.25m (ditto)

Samba £3m (it was widely reported he was on £60k pw)

Nelson £1.5m (pure guess, he was captain, probs on more)

Diouf £2m (reported in article couple of years back, using Deloitte info, that he was highest paid player at the club at that time on 40k pw)

P Jones £1.5m (guess)

Andrews £1m (widely reported to be on £24k pw)

Kalinic 1.5m (thanks to Hadjuk Split chairman who published details on their website when they sold him to us)

Roberts £1.25m (guess)

Grella 1.5m pa (widely reported in press)

Fielding £500k (guess)

Givet £1.25 (guess)

Emerton £1.25 (guess)

Including staff it must be close to £20m (wild guess ). Most of the players we've bought won't be high earners. Plus we're in profit on transfers to the tune of £15m+

However, the wage bill will still be high for a Championship team. I remember reading that B'pool got promoted to the Prem with a wage bill of £15m pa.

Please feel free to correct everything and anything

[Billinge End Blue]

Churn. Relegation leads to higher player turnover, selling but also buying and speculating on younger new blood. It won't be anywhere near equivalent to club income lost through no longer being a part of the Premiership gravy train. But it provides increased financial opportunities for some (naming no names). Asset stripping has been mentioned but I reckon what is going on at Ewood is more akin to futures speculation and hedging activity. And us fans will continue to suffer in the medium term. Be prepared to rally round BRFC when we hit rock bottom...grim times ahead.

[Mercer]

Lathund, i think you might be pretty close there . Again, only rough calculations. I think the wage bill at the end of last season was approx 55m. These players have left since then or will this summer. I've done a rough estimate of what each was on.

Brown £500k pa (pure guess)

Salgado £1.25m (ditto)

Samba £3m (it was widely reported he was on £60k pw)

Nelson £1.5m (pure guess, he was captain, probs on more)

Diouf £2m (reported in article couple of years back, using Deloitte info, that he was highest paid player at the club at that time on 40k pw)

P Jones £1.5m (guess)

Andrews £1m (widely reported to be on £24k pw)

Kalinic 1.5m (thanks to Hadjuk Split chairman who published details on their website when they sold him to us)

Roberts £1.25m (guess)

Grella 1.5m pa (widely reported in press)

Fielding £500k (guess)

Givet £1.25 (guess)

Emerton £1.25 (guess)

Including staff it must be close to £20m (wild guess ). Most of the players we've bought won't be high earners. Plus we're in profit on transfers to the tune of £15m+

However, the wage bill will still be high for a Championship team. I remember reading that B'pool got promoted to the Prem with a wage bill of £15m pa.

Please feel free to correct everything and anything

Rumour has it that Salagado on £50k pw & Nelsen was on £40k pw.

[JAL]

I was following you until this part. Not only will the club lose out big time from relegation, and certain 'assets' will be able to leave on the cheap due to relegation clauses, the club itself will also become a less attractive proposition for potential buyers. So why contrive to give us the worst possible chance of staying in this league for the sake of a few grand?

Would have thought Rovers as a championship club is a far more attractive proposition than as a premier league club.

[Stuart]

Would have thought Rovers as a championship club is a far more attractive proposition than as a premier league club.

To whom?

[bazza]

To whom?

Alex Ferguson and David Moyes for a start.

[Miker]

Lathund, you are correct. The idea that the Raos want relegation, for whatever reason, is rubbish. What has gone on since Jan is damage limitation to reduce the impact of relegation. However, they would have still believed we could survive... And to be honest it is still mathematically possible. Up until 5 games ago people were talking about us as favorites for survival and now we're talking about Kean losing the dressing room. Football is unpredictable.

The developments with the switch to an Indian bank are interesting and while I can speculate what this may mean for us, I'll leave it alone for now. I do think this is very significant though.

[tomphil]

Lathund, you are correct. The idea that the Raos want relegation, for whatever reason, is rubbish. What has gone on since Jan is damage limitation to reduce the impact of relegation. However, they would have still believed we could survive... And to be honest it is still mathematically possible. Up until 5 games ago people were talking about us as favorites for survival and now we're talking about Kean losing the dressing room. Football is unpredictable.

The developments with the switch to an Indian bank are interesting and while I can speculate what this may mean for us, I'll leave it alone for now. I do think this is very significant though.

All overdrafts run up and loans/mortgages have to be paid back which ever bank it is. It has me very worried indeed.

[67splitscreen]

The developments with the switch to an Indian bank are interesting and while I can speculate what this may mean for us, I'll leave it alone for now. I do think this is very significant though.

One of Venkys three current bankers ,HDFC, IDBI, 'STATE BANK OF INDIA' hoistory at least with them, but Venkys as we know don't own the club. Would seem to me they have more credibility in India than here at least, with more assets in India, but would they risk them?, I doubt it.

[Stuart]

Wrong thread

[Athlete]

Lathund, you are correct. The idea that the Raos want relegation, for whatever reason, is rubbish. What has gone on since Jan is damage limitation to reduce the impact of relegation. However, they would have still believed we could survive... And to be honest it is still mathematically possible. Up until 5 games ago people were talking about us as favorites for survival and now we're talking about Kean losing the dressing room. Football is unpredictable.

damage limitation to reduce the impact of relegation ??? WTF if they wanted to stay up they could have done for a start by not pushing players out , play your best 11 never mind appearence contract cost saving ( as your aware that can prove false economy ) get a proper manager in etc , etc

I think your spouting rubbish pal

BTW rumour has it northcote have pulled out of the hospitality at Ewood due to payment problems - alarm bells ringing ?

[RevidgeBlue]

Gordon, for heaven's sake, take more water with it man.

The Rao's would seem to have backed the wrong man to lead the team in Kean and that's about the top and bottom of it really.

There is no advantage whatsoever to be gained in us going down for any owners. None whatsoever, quite the opposite.

If there were any ulterior motives afoot such as asset stripping, that would be best achieved by selling what they could whilst keeping us in the highest possible position in the Premiership.

It also has to be borne in mind that Barclays have required a savage reduction in our overdraft facility since the current owners took over so I would say it's very unlikely that the Rao's have benefitted to any extent as a result of their ownership other than bring heaps of negative publicity crashing down on their heads.

[Sparky Marky]

Where did Jones/Kalinic/samba money go then if they havent benefited?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Where did Jones/Kalinic/samba money go then if they havent benefited?

At a guess - Jones and Kalanic to pay for the wonderful players that Kean has purchased - agents - and to plug various gaps in our finances by not finishing high enough up the league the previous season (JW used to budget on about mid-table). Samba went to Barclays to pay off our overdraft if the rumours are to be believed.

Also not all the Jones money was up front.

[47er]

Gordon, for heaven's sake, take more water with it man.

The Rao's would seem to have backed the wrong man to lead the team in Kean and that's about the top and bottom of it really.

There is no advantage whatsoever to be gained in us going down for any owners. None whatsoever, quite the opposite.

If there were any ulterior motives afoot such as asset stripping, that would be best achieved by selling what they could whilst keeping us in the highest possible position in the Premiership.

It also has to be borne in mind that Barclays have required a savage reduction in our overdraft facility since the current owners took over so I would say it's very unlikely that the Rao's have benefitted to any extent as a result of their ownership other than bring heaps of negative publicity crashing down on their heads.

No Revidge-----from their point of view they've picked exactly the right man for the job they want doing.

You are still thinking of Rovers as a football club where results matter.

[47er]

Paul you may be very very close to the truth there !

Certainly was the worst penalty kick ever seen! (apart from John Coddington!)