[Archived] What are the true costs of the protests?

[Miker]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. Before reverting back to being absolutely horrible we kept 2 clean sheets and secured two good victories. We've also had a fantastic scoring record, despite our horrendous record of conceding goals. I haven't sat down to watch a single game this season or any season thinking we are going to get tonked, but hopeful that we will get a result, no matter what ground we're playing at. We have recorded some excellent victories and at the very least some encouraging performances this season, so obviously the squad of players we have CAN do it if motivated and tactically set up right.

If you're actually going to games expecting to lose then there's seriously something wrong that extends beyond the malaise brought on by Kean and the Raos. What Pedro described is the exact same feeling I got the first time I watched Rovers, where my excitement at being part of a crowd of Rovers supporters was quickly extinguished by fans more intent on getting riled up by a few people rather than supporting the team in full voice.

[mark1875]

We are where we are because the manager is inept and his record proves it! The owners have shown complete negligence and decided to hide away and remain silent rather than acting in the best interests of the football club. They have sold high and bought low and left us with one of the thinnest squads in the division. The club lacks experience from ownership, through the boardroom, in the dugout and out on the pitch.

This is why we are where we are and if anybody is even considering this is the fault of any section of supporters they are seriously misguided. Supporters react to what is going on in front of them on the pitch, always have done.

[ABBEY]

P55 w 12 .... Judgement day kean ? When is it

[Mattyblue]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. Before reverting back to being absolutely horrible we kept 2 clean sheets and secured two good victories. We've also had a fantastic scoring record, despite our horrendous record of conceding goals. I haven't sat down to watch a single game this season or any season thinking we are going to get tonked, but hopeful that we will get a result, no matter what ground we're playing at. We have recorded some excellent victories and at the very least some encouraging performances this season, so obviously the squad of players we have CAN do it if motivated and tactically set up right.

If you're actually going to games expecting to lose then there's seriously something wrong that extends beyond the malaise brought on by Kean and the Raos. What Pedro described is the exact same feeling I got the first time I watched Rovers, where my excitement at being part of a crowd of Rovers supporters was quickly extinguished by fans more intent on getting riled up by a few people rather than supporting the team in full voice.

You was at a friendly in Sydney with a few dozen other Blues! How the bloody hell does that relate to a PL crowd of 20 odd thousand?

I would have been interested to see if the wasted energy and focus given to the manager (who is going nowhere until the owners say so) was transformed into vocal support for the players on the pitch, perhaps they would be driven to give their all in order to win. The players don't seem to want to win for the fans who show/have shown very little support for them.

In your opinion, of course.

Up until recently- West Brom/Swansea away, the players have been giving their all, they have just been marshalled by an inept 'manager' and hamstrung by losing quality players who once stood along side them.

The fans have been superb, all things considered.

[BigAlan]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. Before reverting back to being absolutely horrible we kept 2 clean sheets and secured two good victories. We've also had a fantastic scoring record, despite our horrendous record of conceding goals. I haven't sat down to watch a single game this season or any season thinking we are going to get tonked, but hopeful that we will get a result, no matter what ground we're playing at. We have recorded some excellent victories and at the very least some encouraging performances this season, so obviously the squad of players we have CAN do it if motivated and tactically set up right.

If you're actually going to games expecting to lose then there's seriously something wrong that extends beyond the malaise brought on by Kean and the Raos. What Pedro described is the exact same feeling I got the first time I watched Rovers, where my excitement at being part of a crowd of Rovers supporters was quickly extinguished by fans more intent on getting riled up by a few people rather than supporting the team in full voice.

FFS, what utter bullshit. Where do you think the negativity has been bred from? I used to go to Ewood believing we would win every single game. Now I'm sat wondering how many we'll need to win a game. As I've said before, how the hell can you have the fire and passion when your club is being destroyed and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

[bob fleming]

the squad of players we have CAN do it if motivated and tactically set up right.

that's a big if. There's your answer. How do you get motivated by a liar? A tactically bad one at that?

He's supposed to be a top coach according to his own PR. He hides it well. What is he actually good at other than spouting drivel and grinning?

On average we concede 2.5 goals a game. Admittedly we did keep 2 clean sheets and won 2 games on the bounce. We then reverted to type and lost the next 5.

We need 7 points apparently, that's a massive swing in form based on the last 18 months and hot on the heels of the Swansea debacle. I'll get behind them tomorrow, as ever, but don't expect me to go full of enthusiasm.

[jannerman]

We were having a discussion on Saturday, whilst watching the Swansea match, as to how many points the protests have actually cost us?

Personally, i think without them we would have been well clear of the relegation zone, by about 8 points.

Just wondered what people's thoughts on this are, anyone feeling guilty?

I've made my thoughts on this on other threads but why not here, since you've asked.

I'm going to say none!

No long drawn out ramblings today (busy at work for a change) but my reasoning is just look at what the Owners and the Manager have said and done since the takeover.

• Promised Ronaldo, Ronaldinio (or however you spell it), Beckham and other such "star" names, and get Bruno Ribero and Myles Anderson
  
• Promised European football and you get (last season) a plummet down the league and then this season spending a lot of time in the bottom three with the team lacking cohesion and effective leadership.
  
• Strange tactical decisions, no real consistency in selection, arguably leaving out more experienced, possibly better, options
  
• All of these "incidents" our most experienced players leaving and then there's the ones that don't play due to mystery injuries.
  
• The embarrsement that is the PR, fragmented, mixed-messages, lots of very silly mistakes, still good experience for learning on the job!
  
• Repeated lack of engagement with the fans by the owners despite opportunities
  
• Clear manipulation of the press by Kean and Agnew painting the "negative" fans (and let's call them what they really are, customers) not to be real fans, goading them into causing problems that can then be leveraged against poor performances.
  
• Keeping faith with statistically an under performing, convicted drink driver, with a chauffeur and a bodyguard - when in most situations he would have been replaced.
  

And then consider the passion of the (majority of the) fans.

What would have the rest of football said if we'd have simply sat by and said/done nothing? Passionless Rovers supporters, filing out of the ground in silence again.

Says pretty much all I wanted to there I think....

[jannerman]

I've made my thoughts on this on other threads but why not here, since you've asked.

I'm going to say none!

No long drawn out ramblings today (busy at work for a change) but my reasoning is just look at what the Owners and the Manager have said and done since the takeover.

• Promised Ronaldo, Ronaldinio (or however you spell it), Beckham and other such "star" names, and get Bruno Ribero and Myles Anderson
  
• Promised European football and you get (last season) a plummet down the league and then this season spending a lot of time in the bottom three with the team lacking cohesion and effective leadership.
  
• Strange tactical decisions, no real consistency in selection, arguably leaving out more experienced, possibly better, options
  
• All of these "incidents" our most experienced players leaving and then there's the ones that don't play due to mystery injuries.
  
• The embarrsement that is the PR, fragmented, mixed-messages, lots of very silly mistakes, still good experience for learning on the job!
  
• Repeated lack of engagement with the fans by the owners despite opportunities
  
• Clear manipulation of the press by Kean and Agnew painting the "negative" fans (and let's call them what they really are, customers) not to be real fans, goading them into causing problems that can then be leveraged against poor performances.
  
• Keeping faith with statistically an under performing, convicted drink driver, with a chauffeur and a bodyguard - when in most situations he would have been replaced.
  

And then consider the passion of the (majority of the) fans.

What would have the rest of football said if we'd have simply sat by and said/done nothing? Passionless Rovers supporters, filing out of the ground in silence again.

Says pretty much all I wanted to there I think....

Just wanted to add - all of our players _should_ be professional sportsmen and therefore _should_ be able to cope with hostile situations, although I think it's genuinely been a long time since the majority of players were properly loyal to their clubs, but even so professionals are trained to ignore problems and play - so why would some protesting, a flyby, different chants, etc put them off massively?

I don't buy it myself, even if modern-day footballers are less loyal they should be no less professional.

[Andy]

I would have been interested to see if the wasted energy and focus given to the manager (who is going nowhere until the owners say so) was transformed into vocal support for the players on the pitch, perhaps they would be driven to give their all in order to win. The players don't seem to want to win for the fans who show/have shown very little support for them. We are at our most vocal when informing Pedersen how ###### he is and other than "Feed the Yak" (post goal) we don't actually pipe up with anything positive or creative. I've loved the club for over 25 years but for one reason or another, I feel as disconnected from a large portion of my fellow fans as I am for what is left of the club itself.

I would have been even more interested to see how much better we would have fared over the last 12 month if we'd appointed a manager, rather than stuck with the clueless and totally inept Kean.

Pretty confident we wouldn't have the kind of misplaced finger-pointing comments like yours.

[Miker]

We are sort of only talking about whether or not a negative atmosphere impacts on players, but there's also the impact of an upbeat atmosphere as well.

I also hate the talk of players being professionals so they should handle the criticism and be completely devoid of an emotional response. They're humans not machines and if they were truly capable of being professional all of the time then we wouldn't see players getting into fights on the field or having a go at the ref virtually all the time.

There's a reason why supporters are referred to as the 12th man and not mere customers. They are part of the team, part of the club and everyone needs to pull in the one direction and believe in the club. So to say the fans don't contribute in any way to the team's performance is rubbish in my opinion. But the reason the atmosphere is so bad can quite easily be blamed on the Raos. I said last year that they had no option but to get rid of Kean for the atmosphere to improve.

[Amo]

Incredibly short-sighted and misguided to believe that the fans are in any part responsible for the current plight we find ourselves in. Even clubs like Newcastle & Leeds, who are well known for having big gates and vociferous support could do nothing to stop their team dropping into the lower leagues, because the clubs were rotten at every level. We don't even need to look at other clubs, we went down in 1998/1999 and I don't remember any protests or campaigns against the manager then (Kidd was crap but was he actually hated?). Saying that, I don't remember the fans being treated like dirt on a weekly basis either, zero investment on the pitch, or an obnoxious manager who doesn't answer for his results and has allowed his PR machine to turn fans against one another. The "12th man" is an old cliché which often crops up for underachieving sides such as ours. Yes, the fans can help spur a team on to victory, but it can't paper over a terrible team and an even worse manager, no matter how vocal the support. Why some of our fans are continuing to delude themselves otherwise, I do not know.

[roverandout]

sorry miker, if we are supposed to be the 12th man and 'part of the team' then why are we held in such contempt by the owners and the manager? even some players, you talk out of your rearend

[ABBEY]

Fans fault miker? Give it a rest Ffs .. It's down to the rat turd owners. End of.

[Miker]

Yes, the fans can help spur a team on to victory, but it can't paper over a terrible team and an even worse manager, no matter how vocal the support. Why some of our fans are continuing to delude themselves otherwise, I do not know.

So you are agreeing that the fans can spur a team on to victory? Yet then you are saying I am deluding myself? Either you agree or you don't. The atmosphere at the ground generated by the fans has an impact on the players on the pitch whether positive or negative, there is more evidence for this than for the opposite.

If you, abbey or roverandout want to read into this as me saying "it's the fan's fault we will get relegated" then you guys are the deluded ones because you are believing I am saying something that I'm not.

[Majiball]

If your going down this road then the route cause of the atmosphere is too blame not the fans as fans will always voice their opinions.

[greco]

So you are agreeing that the fans can spur a team on to victory? Yet then you are saying I am deluding myself? Either you agree or you don't. The atmosphere at the ground generated by the fans has an impact on the players on the pitch whether positive or negative, there is more evidence for this than for the opposite.

If you, abbey or roverandout want to read into this as me saying "it's the fan's fault we will get relegated" then you guys are the deluded ones because you are believing I am saying something that I'm not.

first you talked about the ewood atmosphere, then matty schooled you and stated you´d only watched a friendly and now youre backtracking, trying to save a little face.

nobody has denied that the atmosphere can effect players, but these guys are better equipped to handle pressure then the average joe, as they have been used to high expectations and that sort of pressure their entire career.

And if you want to speak in broad terms, then it got a little eye opener for you and that is the following :

every team in the league experiences good and bad days regarding atmosphere, its not something brfc has an exclusive deal on.

[Amo]

So you are agreeing that the fans can spur a team on to victory? Yet then you are saying I am deluding myself? Either you agree or you don't. The atmosphere at the ground generated by the fans has an impact on the players on the pitch whether positive or negative, there is more evidence for this than for the opposite.

You obviously didn't read that post properly.

There has to be a TEAM to spur on in the first place.

[Majiball]

You obviously didn't read that post properly.

There has to be a TEAM to spur on in the first place.

But there is a team to support at present, it just has a lot of Me's in it at the moment.

[Andy]

I see those pesky protesters cost us yet more points again today!

Oh, yeah - that's right, they didn't.

As they haven't done all season.

[Will]

I see those pesky protesters cost us yet more points again today!

Oh, yeah - that's right, they didn't.

As they haven't done all season.

I noticed the Kean out chants soon changed to Venkys out once we were winning.

Make your minds up protesters!

[Rovermatt]

They can both (Please don't use that word again) off.

[Will]

They can both (Please don't use that word again) off.

The sooner the better.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

They can both (Please don't use that word again) off.

a short sentence that puts everything in perspective.

[sambo]

I noticed the Kean out chants soon changed to Venkys out once we were winning.

Make your minds up protesters!

The Darwen End were consistent in giving both their deserved criticism.

[perthblue02]

I noticed the Kean out chants soon changed to Venkys out once we were winning.

Make your minds up protesters!

Think you need to get your hearing checked, both chants were happening from 70 minutes onward. Considering the two are interlinked what's the problem?