[Archived] Kidd in 99

[A cup of beans]

Man up FFS, the last thing we need is sky homing in on your ugly mug covered in tears

I have been on a sky advert in 93/94.. also showing agony!

This season REALLY hurts, Gav!

[m1st]

We were owned by a man to whom the club meant a lot personally, and who wasn't afraid to recognise that he'd made a mistake by appointing someone who was, and still is, essentially a coach to a managerial post for which he wasn't suited. So he sacked him.

The well-being of the club came first for Jack.

[eire3382]

Another difference with regards to the 99 season. I felt that if we stayed up that year things would get sorted out for the following season.

Whereas now if we somehow manage to stay up we are looking at the same again next season and on until we do go down.

[rog of the rovers]

We also missed Sutton for long periods and I think that showed.

Kidd was out of his depth, although the rot had begin to set in under Hodgson. People mention the bad signings.

Ward (still my most hated Rovers player of all time), Davies, Davidson, Perez, Peacock, Dailly, Blake, McAteer, even Jansen at that point. All of whom were Division 1 (now Championship) players.

In fact from the turn of 1998 to us getting relegated we didn't win too many games.

For fun, I thought I'd compare the team that drew 0-0 against Man Utd on May 12th 1999 vs. The team that lost 0-2 this time around.

Score who I think is the better player from each position and see whether were stronger now than we were then.

Filan vs. Robinson - Not much in it in my opinion. Filan never let us down and if memory serves actually got player of the season in 1999. Probably just give it to Robinson based on his leadership skills. BR99 0-1 BR12

Croft vs. Orr - Too early to tell whether Orr will be a good un, but Croft, who was arrested and played with a tag only years later was definitely the inferior player. BR99 0-2 BR12

Henchoz vs. Dann - The Swiss defender seemed to get a lot of flack from Rovers fans that season, but I think that was more born out of frustration rather than lack of ability, which he showed in abundance when he joined Liverpool. Dann on the other hand has been nothing but awful. He can't head, has no pace, can't pass and must surely go down as one of our worst Premier League signings. Henchoz the winner. BR99 1-2 BR12

Peacock vs. Hanley - Yes, Darren Peacock! There is noway I'm going to vote for the ex Newcastle man. Hanley has come on leaps and bounds since last year and is certainly better than the pony-tailed plodder. BR99 1-3 BR12

Davidson vs. Martin Olsson - Davidson was the better defender and I think people have started to figure out Martin Olsson and his defensive weaknesses. Pace can only get you so far (see Marcus Olsson) therefore my vote goes to the Scot. BR99 2-3 BR12

Gillespie vs. Marcus Olsson - Difficult for a direct comparison because on the different formations (442 v 451) and also its easy to remember Gillespie as the classy right winger from the promotion season and the 2002 cup campaign. In 1999 I remember him being very raw and pretty predictable, that said I think Marcus Olsson sets new boundaries of predictability, I can see why Hughes turned him down and how his career has subsequently been a non starter. League One is probably his level, but then again he may have the chance to prove me right in the 2013/14 season. Easy decision BR99 3-3 BR12

Dunn vs. Lowe - Both Dunn and Lowe shone in patches during the respective seasons, Remember Dunn's inspirational performance away at Villa? Similarly some of Lowe's performances have caught the eye but I still think he is unsure of his best position. Is it at RB or a CM? Dunn was still a couple of years off his breakout run (2001-2004) at this stage, but I think he offered more to the team than Lowey does. BR99 4-3 BR12

Carsley vs. N'Zonzi - Both the holding players in the midfield although Carsley grabbed more headlines for his penalty taking and his transfer to Everton left a bitter taste at the time. N'Zonzi's biggest fault is his temperament, he's a real diva on the pitch at times and his sulks have cost us through the season. Still on his day I think he's better than Carsley and therefore he wins. BR99 4-4 BR12

Wilcox vs. Pedersen - Lest we forget that during the 99 season Wilcox was roundly booed by large sections of the Rovers fans for his wing play. Fast forward 13 years and the same applies to MGP. I think both players will (Wilcox is I suppose) be remembered fondly when they hang up their boots, but primarily for the form shown in their early Rovers career. Wilcox, a Premiership winner and MGP, arguably our best player from 2002-2004 and instrumental to the way Hughes' teams played through the 00s. Really tough call, but I'll shade MGP due to his delivery from set pieces, especially throw ins! BR99 4-5 BR12

Jansen vs. Hoilett - Magic Matt went on to become a Rovers hero and legend, but in 99 his nickname may as well have been "can't pass, won't pass" as the youngster tried to do everything by himself. Hoilett is like that at times, but he's a better player now than Jansen was then. BR99 4-6 BR12

Ward vs. Yakubu - May be biased as I loath Ashley Ward and have done since my childhood but he isn't fit to lace Yakubu's boots, particularly given the season the Yak has had on a poor team. I'm sure you'll agree. EASY DECISION! BR99 4-7 BR12

I'm sure some of you will have different opinions, but to me that shows how bad the 1999 team actually was!

I think both teams suffered with second rate managers who were more suited to assistant or coaching roles, but I think it further proves what a poor job Kean has done with a 'decent' team.

[Sadism]

If it happens and we go down. Let’s not have fans with tears in their eyes and drying them on their shirts.

I for one will not shed a tear for Kean and the Venkeys. They don’t deserve that level of expression. That will only be for a owner and manager who cared about this club.

Only Jack Walker can command that level of respect and heartfelt emotion from me.

The TV cameras will no doubt want to see fans sobbing as they announce our relegation on the news. No Dingles will see my cry. They will hear and see me chant “There is only one Jack Walker”

They will hear and see me chant “Venkeys & Kean out!”

[bradeagle]

Yeah we did miss sutton. Gallacher and Sutton were GAS. Without sutton and gallacher equaled SAG

[A cup of beans]

Good work, Rog! I disagree with Ped instead of Wilcox, but the rest of it you are spot on.

[whittle blue]

The difference between this season any ANY previous relegation season is that decisions right & wrong had the welfare of Blackburn Rovers Football Club in the equation.

Sadly we now have a football club in name only.

The Walker era is over.

To keep singing Jack Walker's name is clinging to the past. Wallow in the past and you'll be tormented forever.

Always look ahead.

The focus must now be100% on Venkys and their removal.

[Hughesy]

Very different, as back then we knew we still had the owners backing and we also knew 100% that he had the clubs best interests at heart. At the moment we have been shown nothing to back that up this time around.

Im dreading the day we go down again, its an emotional time, and I dont care what others say - it will hurt just as bad.

Jack's tears on relegation are a memory I'll never forget.

Remember that like it was yesterday, the camera panned to him and the crowd just sang at him, he had a tear in his eye as he clapped the fans. But he promised us we would be back, and we did, sadly just after he passed.

I remember going home to find out what Ferguson had said on sky (Acting dumb about us getting relegated) - I instantly hated him more, and also Ashley Ward for missing the sitter against the big Dane.

As for Kidd - He was out of his depth, bought poor players and didnt know how to inspire the team.

What was the story about when Jack went down to the training ground to speak to him, something like he was busy playing cards or something, so Jack who went looking on the training pitch 1st, said on your bike basically.

I remember the last game of the season when we took the lead at Newcastle; immediately we started a chant of "One-nil to the Nationwide" [then the Football League's sponsors].

Remember it well - the Newcastle fans were all telling us after the game how they hoped we would be back soon too.

[Mattyblue]

Im dreading the day we go down again, its an emotional time, and I dont care what others say - it will hurt just as bad.

This is hurting me far more than 99.

This is quite possibly the beginning of a very dark period in our history, how far we can drop, I've no idea.

[bradeagle]

This is hurting me far more than 99.

This is quite possibly the beginning of a very dark period in our history, how far we can drop, I've no idea.

thats the major worry it could be free fall. Who needs enemies with owners and managers like this

[BPF]

I remember that night well, sat in the upper tear of the Blackburn End using the season ticket I'd held since being old enough to understand what was going on. It was the first of the two occasions I'd shed a tear at Ewood Park (The second being Walker's tribute).

The frustration as Ward put an amazing chance right over the crossbar. That was the difference then...an overwhelming desire for us to stay up. It meant so much that I could hardly sit in my seat, it meant so much that I didn't sleep that night. Now, it just feels inevitable. We have been bled dry and are being fed to the lions every week.

It amazes me that I still read:

I can't believe you are saying that you don't care as much anymore....RTID.....ROVERS FOREVER!!!

It is the same blind patriotism that America is ridiculed for. Open your eyes and see what is really going on here? Blackburn Rovers as we have known it for at least the last 27 years is dead and gone - perhaps forever. You now follow Venkys FC. You can only take so much. When I visited in February, I held a New York Rovers flag up to be photographed with my brother. Three stewards treated me like I'd just held up a Swastika flag....until they individually read the flag. I've never seen someone take so long to read three words.... I still love us but it is all based upon ignorance towards the current regime and nostalgia. I don't know how much longer it will last though, after all I will always have my memories and I'm only going to get to see four games at the most next season.

For those of you that have already eagerly filled in your renewal packs, I think you either have too much money or not enough to do. Blackburn Rovers will only return as we know it if the current regime is bled dry. Venkys are a disease and sadly I believe that the club will have to go close to near extinction before we are free of them.

[Beta Ray Bill]

When we went down in 1999, on the night of the Man Utd match Dad said "it's upsetting, but we will be back."

I didn't doubt it.

This time I have no doubt we won't be back.

[Amo]

I remember that night well, sat in the upper tear of the Blackburn End using the season ticket I'd held since being old enough to understand what was going on. It was the first of the two occasions I'd shed a tear at Ewood Park (The second being Walker's tribute).

The frustration as Ward put an amazing chance right over the crossbar. That was the difference then...an overwhelming desire for us to stay up. It meant so much that I could hardly sit in my seat, it meant so much that I didn't sleep that night. Now, it just feels inevitable. We have been bled dry and are being fed to the lions every week.

It amazes me that I still read:

I can't believe you are saying that you don't care as much anymore....RTID.....ROVERS FOREVER!!!

It is the same blind patriotism that America is ridiculed for. Open your eyes and see what is really going on here? Blackburn Rovers as we have known it for at least the last 27 years is dead and gone - perhaps forever. You now follow Venkys FC. You can only take so much. When I visited in February, I held a New York Rovers flag up to be photographed with my brother. Three stewards treated me like I'd just held up a Swastika flag....until they individually read the flag. I've never seen someone take so long to read three words.... I still love us but it is all based upon ignorance towards the current regime and nostalgia. I don't know how much longer it will last though, after all I will always have my memories and I'm only going to get to see four games at the most next season.

For those of you that have already eagerly filled in your renewal packs, I think you either have too much money or not enough to do. Blackburn Rovers will only return as we know it if the current regime is bled dry. Venkys are a disease and sadly I believe that the club will have to go close to near extinction before we are free of them.

+1

[Stuart]

I remember that night well, sat in the upper tear of the Blackburn End using the season ticket I'd held since being old enough to understand what was going on. It was the first of the two occasions I'd shed a tear at Ewood Park (The second being Walker's tribute).

The frustration as Ward put an amazing chance right over the crossbar. That was the difference then...an overwhelming desire for us to stay up. It meant so much that I could hardly sit in my seat, it meant so much that I didn't sleep that night. Now, it just feels inevitable. We have been bled dry and are being fed to the lions every week.

It amazes me that I still read:

I can't believe you are saying that you don't care as much anymore....RTID.....ROVERS FOREVER!!!

It is the same blind patriotism that America is ridiculed for. Open your eyes and see what is really going on here? Blackburn Rovers as we have known it for at least the last 27 years is dead and gone - perhaps forever. You now follow Venkys FC. You can only take so much. When I visited in February, I held a New York Rovers flag up to be photographed with my brother. Three stewards treated me like I'd just held up a Swastika flag....until they individually read the flag. I've never seen someone take so long to read three words.... I still love us but it is all based upon ignorance towards the current regime and nostalgia. I don't know how much longer it will last though, after all I will always have my memories and I'm only going to get to see four games at the most next season.

For those of you that have already eagerly filled in your renewal packs, I think you either have too much money or not enough to do. Blackburn Rovers will only return as we know it if the current regime is bled dry. Venkys are a disease and sadly I believe that the club will have to go close to near extinction before we are free of them.

For some reason, people get really upset when the following is mentioned but I'll say it anyway...

It's a helluva lot easier to 'turn your back'; 'cut all ties'; 'take the moral high ground' (choose your cliché) about renewal when you live thousands of miles away. It's much more difficult a decision when it's on your doorstep...

[BPF]

For some reason, people get really upset when the following is mentioned but I'll say it anyway...

It's a helluva lot easier to 'turn your back'; 'cut all ties'; 'take the moral high ground' (choose your cliché) about renewal when you live thousands of miles away. It's much more difficult a decision when it's on your doorstep...

I don't deny that.

It's funny how no matter what I say, it will never leave me though. My wife can't believe that every phonecall back home turns into a Rovers discussion within three minutes...

[Majiball]

I was working the night we went down, nipping into the drawing room as often as I could (I almost saw the whole match) and when that final whistle blew I fell on my knees and cried in front of all our customers. Went to go home, stopped at the pub next door and drank myself stupid before starting a ball fight in McDonalds. I was miserable for quite sometime after that night, irritable and angry. Alas this ones been on the cards all season and the sun hasn't shone on our pall white asses so I've had time to come to terms with it all. I know the club have no clue what they are doing from top to toe and that there's nothing that can be done to avert the coming doom.

[roverandout]

difference between then and now? jansen, duff and an up and coming dunn, pluss money to spend, a chairman/owner who knew what he was doing and a far inferior division 1/championship.

[Stuart]

I don't deny that.

It's funny how no matter what I say, it will never leave me though. My wife can't believe that every phonecall back home turns into a Rovers discussion within three minutes...

That made me smile. And a little sad.

The difference between then and now? This time it feels like watching a coffin being wheeled into a hearse rather than a patient being wheeled into an ambulance.

And we've had 18 months watching it die.

[Veevs]

Biggest difference for me is not the manager but the total uncertainty surrounding the club, back then we knew and loved our Jack and knew without a doubt he was Rovers and we would be back.. this time come the end of the season we don't have a clue what will happen, our owners are so unpredictable that literally anything could happen to our beloved club.

Then:

Manager: 5, not a great manager by any stretch of the imagination but honesty, integrity and heart counted for allot

Team: 6, less skill IMO and not the same potential but more of a togetherness and fighting spirit

Owners: 10, we had Jack

Management team: 10, We had a proper setup and every supporter knew they would do the job

Future outlook: 10, none of us fooled ourselves that we would be winning the premier league any time soon but we knew we would bounce back

Financial situation: 10, we all felt finance wise we where secure and well run

Us Fans: 10, together and knew where we stood

The League: 8, More exciting with less of a split between rich and poor and a much more competitive league

Now:

Manager: -10, awful tactics, poor management, awful man management, an extreme liar, deluded and backed by the worst set of spin doctors you could imagine

Team: 7, Has IMO more potential and some better players but no heart

Owners: -10, Unpredictable and seemingly do not give a damn about their investment

Management team: -10, Kean seems to be doing that role as well and extremely poorly

Future outlook: 0, Complete unknown, chance of doing a Luton, possible fire-sale,

Financial situation: 0, utter unknown but it seems fairly obvious there are issues

Us Fans: 0, Split, restless, on the whole pesssimistic and generally unhappy

The League: 5, More big money clubs but an awful lot of poor teams as well

[roverandout]

sorry veevs dont agree about the playing staff, this team cant hold a candle to the 99 team, duff, jansen and dunn of old would bury this team, dont forgot we had the likes of sherwood at some point in the season too, he would make n'nonzi look the amateur he is, henchoz was far better than any defenders we have now, i could go on, i agree with your other points though

[onlyonejackwalker]

sorry veevs dont agree about the playing staff, this team cant hold a candle to the 99 team, duff, jansen and dunn of old would bury this team, dont forgot we had the likes of sherwood at some point in the season too, he would make n'nonzi look the amateur he is, henchoz was far better than any defenders we have now, i could go on, i agree with your other points though

Duff, Dunn and Jansen from back then? That team would be 3.0 up before half time against the current team.

With reference to the last game of that season away at the Geordies, we were also singing 'The Premier League, is upside down' chant.

[m1st]

With reference to the last game of that season away at the Geordies, we were also singing 'The Premier League, is upside down' chant.

True; I'd forgotten that one, oojw.

[Pedro]

To be fair Jim, Hodgeson's first season was decent and his managerial record was very good before he joined us. I don't think anybody was massively disappointed when he was given the manager's position and it was only in Woy's second season that the whole thing went pear-shaped.

Appointing Kidd was a big mistake, though, and a strange one. I'm sure we could have done better.

Appointing Harford for loyalty reasons in 96 is where it all went wrong. We can't blame Jack for making some really bad choices because without him there wouldn't be the dream journey. Truth is though, he made a lot of major mistakes after the exit of Kenny (who really understood the game and could really spot a player back in the day). Post 95 we wasted time and millions in transfers, we stalled straight after we won the title when Kenny moved upstairs, stagnated whilst waiting for Sven to muck us about, then self destructed when things turned sour for Hodgson and Kidd just wasn't up to task. Don't anyone be fooled, the squad were as hopeless and gutless in 99 are they are now and in both era's the team lacked a proper manager.

Football itself has changed massively since the 90's. Roy Keane was going to join us for an unimaginal wage at the time of 350k a year...run of the mill players like Samba got that every 5 or six weeks. Times have changed so much that even Jack couldn't fund a championship winning side in this day and age...but at least we'd know his motives and that his heart was always in the right place.

[Veevs]

Duff, Dunn and Jansen from back then? That team would be 3.0 up before half time against the current team.

With reference to the last game of that season away at the Geordies, we were also singing 'The Premier League, is upside down' chant.

Very true mate, I went by the team that Rog posted on the previous page which isnt actually the seasons top starters and includes the likes of Jansen who had not arrived, so long back could not remember what season players came/went.. so will need to correct that.

The actual team based on starts (taken from wiki but checked on transfermrkt)

GK: #13, Australia John Filan, 26

RB: #2, Republic of Ireland Jeff Kenna, 22

CB: #5, England Darren Peacock, 27

CB: #6, Switzerland Stéphane Henchoz, 34

LB: #3, Scotland Callum Davidson, 34

RM: #11, England Jason Wilcox, 28

CM: #19, Northern Ireland Damien Johnson, 14 (#17, Scotland Billy McKinlay, also has 14 starts)

CM: #4, England Tim Sherwood, 19

LM: #12, Republic of Ireland Damien Duff, 18

CF: #9, England Chris Sutton, 17

CF: #32, England Ashley Ward, 17

Squad also included, Kevin Davies (who did well later in his career), Croft, Gallacher, Flowers, Jason McAteer, Christian Dailly, Gary Flitcroft, Dunn, Keith Gillespie (2nd half of the season.. pretty injury ravaged during the season and Flitcroft, McAteer, Davies and Dunn did not feature much as to young (blimey it was that long ago).

I should of known better than to not check the team myself lol. Noting some players arrived and others left I would think only Givet, Robinson, Samba (yes I know he is now gone but did feature in this seasons squad), Yakuba and Jnr would get into that side but the squad in 98/99 as a whole was MUCH stronger and with Dunn, Flitcroft, Davies, McAteer and Duff had more potential.