Nzonzi off?

[Damien]

True, so far holliet, salgado, emerton, jones, kalinic, Roberts, samba, nelsen and possibly n'zonzi and olsson! Hmmm

[Exiled in Toronto]

Selling your best players only results in relegation Hughesy - as we can all see.

Yet elsewhere you argued that the approach of last few years under the Trust, when we sold Bellamy, Bentley, Rocky, Savage, Brad etc, to be a "trading club" was sustainable.

We've always sold our best players going back to Vernon and Pickering and always will. The only times it can be argued we didn't was when Garner was the best player and not good enough for anywhere better and the first 4 years of Jack's reign.

[den]

Yet elsewhere you argued that the approach of last few years under the Trust, when we sold Bellamy, Bentley, Rocky, Savage, Brad etc, to be a "trading club" was sustainable.

I argued that it was sustainable to run with a slightly higher wage/turnover ratio than other clubs had.

[JAL]

True, so far holliet, salgado, emerton, jones, kalinic, Roberts, samba, nelsen and possibly n'zonzi and olsson! Hmmm

Will Robinson join them then their job will almost be complete and then what will we have to show for it after two years of dismantlement.

[den]

We've always sold our best players going back to Vernon and Pickering and always will.

Yes and it meant relegation, which is what I've just said. However, Hughesy and plenty others continually want to sell our best players. They must be baffled why we went down.

The reason why we were relegated this time isn't because the Raos are are owners, it isn't because Kean is our manager, it's because we've sold our best players and replaced them with poor players.

What's your point EIT?

[The Rover of Finland]

Still here?

[rossyrover]

Nzonzi like Holliet is so full of himself he's up his own backside were better off without the pair of them.

[den]

You think we'll win more games without them?

[1864roverite]

KEANSCUM clearly does ! He thinks we have a stronger squad than last season thats how much of a clueless fool we have in charge of team affaris and YET still some fans support him, INFOOKINCREDIBLE

[Salgado Is A Hero]

You think we'll win more games without them?

Yea the general thinking of some is about 3 players tried last season, so out of the 8 or so others we will be better off if some of the best ones leave.

KEANSCUM clearly does ! He thinks we have a stronger squad than last season thats how much of a clueless fool we have in charge of team affaris and YET still some fans support him, INFOOKINCREDIBLE

I don't think any fan supports Kean....any ones who appear to be optimistic/positive/whatever have just accepted he isn't going anywhere.

[Mattyblue]

"Hoilett? Big Head, overrated. Get rid

N'Zonzi? Bad attitude. Get shut.

Olsson? Noones bigger than the club. Sell him.

We want grafters who'll play furt badge".

This small time attitude of fans never ceases to amaze me. Good players are the basis of a good team, with a manager who can handle their egos.

Still, a load of unknowns from Portugal and other lower league cloggers will fire us back.

[Waggy76]

Still, a load of unknowns from Portugal and other lower league cloggers will fire us back.

We won't be going back , with the bad news about Best another relegation is likely ...

Who is going to score the goals ?

Who is going to stop the other side scoring ?

Who is going to kick the opposition ?

[FourLaneBlue]

The reason why we were relegated this time isn't because the Raos are are owners, it isn't because Kean is our manager, it's because we've sold our best players and replaced them with poor players.

What's your point EIT?

No, it's also because Kean was our manager.

He almost got us relegated from a midtable position in january when we still had Samba, Emerton, Jermaine & Phil Jones, Santa Cruz, Nelsen, Hoilett, Nzonzi, Kalinic, Roberts etc etc

Given a full season, he'd have been lucky to keep us up even with the likes of Bellamy, Tugay and Brad.

[den]

No, it's also because Kean was our manager.

He almost got us relegated from a midtable position in january when we still had Samba, Emerton, Jermaine & Phil Jones, Santa Cruz, Nelsen, Hoilett, Nzonzi, Kalinic, Roberts etc etc

Given a full season, he'd have been lucky to keep us up even with the likes of Bellamy, Tugay and Brad.

You obviously missed the point FLB. Appointing Kean didn't relegate us. Selling our better players - and being left with inferior players relegated us. Venky's and Kean were contributing factors.

The whole point is "buy first division players, get first division football". Yet we still have fans wanting shut of our best players.

players good enough

[FourLaneBlue]

You obviously missed the point FLB. Appointing Kean didn't relegate us.

No, I didn't miss the point at all, I just disagreed with it. Kean relegated us.

Would we have gone down with Allardyce in charge and with the same players?

i think not.

[FourLaneBlue]

The whole point is "buy first division players, get first division football". Yet we still have fans wanting shut of our best players.

players good enough

I agree with that part. However, it's not why we were relegated last season. It would have seen us relegated eventually whatever, yes, but we still had enough quality to stay up last year. Except in the dugout.

[den]

I'm surprised no-one jumped on my original post before today FLB - well done for being alert.

Look, When Venky's took over and began by ridding themselves of the likes of John Williams, some of our fans didn't see any real problem with that. Then Allardyce was gone in no time at all - and again some fans rejoiced. Now if the owners and manager had managed to build on the quality of the playing squad, we wouldn't have been relegated even with Kean in charge. While the manager contributes to results,[and Kean contributes more than most ], the main way he contributes is by the quality of player he brings into the club. No manager can bring to the club a winning team, if the squad is full of players who simply can't cope with the opposition. We were relegated because the combination of Venky's and Kean resulted in our best players leaving. Venky's and Kean could have taken the club forward if they had been able to improve the playing quality, but they didn't.

As for Allardyce, his qualities are partly down to his managerial techniques, but mainly down to him knowing what is needed player wise, to compete at any level. Quite simply, the squad quality wouldn't have dropped to this level - assuming he'd have been backed financially.

So, my belief is that the game is 90% about the players. Look back at the squads we've had over the years and you'll find that the teams who have been successful have had more than their share of quality in them. Look at the sides that have been relegated and you'll see a lot of mediocrity. Yet, we still have fans [mainly younger ones] who are quite happy to let good players go. You can't build a squad by selling your best players, you build a squad by selling your worst players.

Parson, Jim, Theno and a lot more fans, all knew that the likely outcome of the destruction of the clubs structure would end in the lowering of the quality of teams we were putting out - and they knew that ultimately it's the players who bring success or failure.

Were we relegated when Venky's took over? - no.

Were we relegated when Kean took over? - no.

Were we relegated when we lost our better players and replaced them with worse? - yes.

Would some of our fans continue down the same route? - yes.

[bennyboyt11]

Snore.

[Lathund]

You can't build a squad by selling your best players,

You can, just look at Udinese to see an example of that. It obviously requires great scouting and talent evaluation to find the right replacements, but it is possible. Although not with the clowns we have running our club. What Rovers did wrong is that we got rid of too many good players at once, and of course that we didn't adequately replace them.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Like someone else has pointed out Kean took over midway through a season and almost relegated us.....with a stronger team than in the first half mainly due to the arrival of Jermaine Jones.

Replacing players for ones who are worse will not guarantee relegation, a manager as bad as Kean will, for anyone outside the top 4.

[FourLaneBlue]

I'm surprised no-one jumped on my original post before today FLB - well done for being alert.

Look, When Venky's took over and began by ridding themselves of the likes of John Williams, some of our fans didn't see any real problem with that. Then Allardyce was gone in no time at all - and again some fans rejoiced. Now if the owners and manager had managed to build on the quality of the playing squad, we wouldn't have been relegated even with Kean in charge. While the manager contributes to results,[and Kean contributes more than most ], the main way he contributes is by the quality of player he brings into the club. No manager can bring to the club a winning team, if the squad is full of players who simply can't cope with the opposition. We were relegated because the combination of Venky's and Kean resulted in our best players leaving. Venky's and Kean could have taken the club forward if they had been able to improve the playing quality, but they didn't.

As for Allardyce, his qualities are partly down to his managerial techniques, but mainly down to him knowing what is needed player wise, to compete at any level. Quite simply, the squad quality wouldn't have dropped to this level - assuming he'd have been backed financially.

I understand what you are saying, and agree with a lot of it, but fundamentally you are wrong about last season. You also dismiss too glibly the influence that a good manager and his tactics bring to a winning side.

Allardyce would have kept that squad up last season. We did not have one of the three worst squads in the league. The truly abysmal management was shown by us breaking the record for most games at the start of a season without a clean sheet. Wigan did not have a squad as good as Rovers yet finished well above us in the end. QPR were a shambles until they got the right manager in. They had a decent squad...but unless the right manager is there it means little.

We did not go down last year because of the quality of the squad. We went down as it was so miserably mismanaged. It might well have been that this season our squad was no longer good enough with the likes of Hoilett and Yakubu off, but last season they were good enough to stay up.

Except with Kean in charge.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Just look at Villa last season......Nzogbia, Ireland, Bent (although he missed half of the season), Albrighton, Given, Agbonlahor can be good, some good youngsters and the rest of their squad is alright yet they were absolutely terrible all season. They won 1 of their last 13 games which was a last minute winner at home to a Fulham side that even we comfortably won against at home with 10 men.

[Hekla]

Doesn't it annoy you when you bring a player from nowhere to the Premier League, introduce him to the first team immediately, then becomes so arrogant believing he is better than he is and shows no loyalty. Happens with many footballers now, shame.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Doesn't it annoy you when you bring a player from nowhere to the Premier League, introduce him to the first team immediately, then becomes so arrogant believing he is better than he is and shows no loyalty. Happens with many footballers now, shame.

I've accepted it....where does it end? Stay in the C'ship for a season as we signed you from nowhere......stay now that we're back in the Prem for a few seasons as we signed you from nowhere.......why though?.......because you owe loyalty to the fans........but some of them jeer me when I pass it backwards, and this other team have a world class manager, have qualified for Europe and will double my wages......yea but...like, the good old days and that.

[Eddie]

It doesn't have to end...or start.

Keep doing a job, when a big club comes in for you then there is a very good chance that you will be on your way (see Jones, Duff or Bentley).

We gave you a chance, you're getting well paid, keep kicking the ball about until someone else wants to pay you to do it.